Randy vs. T.O. (1 Viewer)

[JuSt CuZ]

Some people have a little bit of a debate on the board over this. Jerry has his own planet in my opinion, but lets ask the SP.

Jerry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than anyone, including Randy.

EDIT-------------------------------------------------

After further review, Jerry wins and it was not close....

....so who is better Ranty or T.O.?

 

[FUBAR]

let's just cut to the "jerry vs Quincy Morgan" thread.

 

[Jason Wood]

The only person I've seen "argue" for Moss is LHUCKS.

Look, I think Moss is an exceptional player and he should be inducted into Canton the second he's eligible. But he's not Jerry Rice. That's ridiculous.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

The only person I've seen "argue" for Moss is LHUCKS.Look, I think Moss is an exceptional player and he should be inducted into Canton the second he's eligible. But he's not Jerry Rice. That's ridiculous.

Some others were saying it as well, but instead of having the Jerry and Randy debate in other threads, figured why not start one just for it.

 

[Jason Wood]

The only person I've seen "argue" for Moss is LHUCKS.Look, I think Moss is an exceptional player and he should be inducted into Canton the second he's eligible. But he's not Jerry Rice. That's ridiculous.

Some others were saying it as well, but instead of having the Jerry and Randy debate in other threads, figured why not start one just for it.

I just don't see any objective way one can argue Moss was better than Rice.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

The only person I've seen "argue" for Moss is LHUCKS.Look, I think Moss is an exceptional player and he should be inducted into Canton the second he's eligible. But he's not Jerry Rice. That's ridiculous.

Some others were saying it as well, but instead of having the Jerry and Randy debate in other threads, figured why not start one just for it.

I just don't see any objective way one can argue Moss was better than Rice.

Oh I agree totally, but lets bog down this thread instead of the others, lol. Just helpin out.

 

[spider321]

Anyone who votes for Randy should be permabanned from the forum, imho.

Jerry Rice is the greatest FOOTBALL PLAYER that ever lived, by far.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I see someone took the LHUCKS bait.

 

[spider321]

Randy was a great, 1st ballot HOF player.

Why ruin it by comparing him to Jerry?

Everyone agreeing that Randy is a top 3 to 5 WR that ever played should be enough for anyone to be happy.

Same $h@# was done on here with Emmitt.

Next up... Tomlinson, Brady, Peyton, Ray, etc, etc, etc...

Fortunately, we all know that LHUCKS will be there to support the wrong answer in every discussion.

 

[Sabertooth]

A better question is who was better between Randy Moss and Terrell Owens?

 

[Jason Wood]

A better question is who was better between Randy Moss and Terrell Owens?

That is a more interesting debate

 

[zed2283]

A better question is who was better between Randy Moss and Terrell Owens?

T.O.

 

[spider321]

A better question is who was better between Randy Moss and Terrell Owens?

Moss was obviously more talented.If I were a GM, I'd take Moss on the field, but I wouldn't want either in my locker room.If I were a QB, I'd tell them both that I will not throw a single ball their way until they learn to STFup.

 

[spider321]

Upon further thought...

Moss was better than TO when he was actually trying.

TO, while not as physically gifted as Moss, gave much more consistant effort.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

The only person I've seen "argue" for Moss is LHUCKS.Look, I think Moss is an exceptional player and he should be inducted into Canton the second he's eligible. But he's not Jerry Rice. That's ridiculous.

I would agree 100 percent but I will say in defense of Moss, the season he caught 23 TD's was the greatest season I ever witnessed by a WR. I know that's not the question here but I'm just throwing that in there.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

A better question is who was better between Randy Moss and Terrell Owens?

That is a more interesting debate

That ones tough, wheres the thread? lol

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

A better question is who was better between Randy Moss and Terrell Owens?

That is a more interesting debate

That ones tough, wheres the thread? lol

Although that is probably closer than Jerry and Randy, I can say without a doubt Moss was better than Owens, as great as Owens was. If you don't think that, then you're as bad as those thinking Randy is better than Jerry.

 

[Jason Wood]

The only person I've seen "argue" for Moss is LHUCKS.Look, I think Moss is an exceptional player and he should be inducted into Canton the second he's eligible. But he's not Jerry Rice. That's ridiculous.

I would agree 100 percent but I will say in defense of Moss, the season he caught 23 TD's was the greatest season I ever witnessed by a WR. I know that's not the question here but I'm just throwing that in there.

That was an AMAZING season, no doubt. But Rice's '95 season (122 for 1,848 and 15 TDs) stands out to me.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

fixed

 

[sho nuff]

A better question is who was better between Randy Moss and Terrell Owens?

Moss

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

The only person I've seen "argue" for Moss is LHUCKS.Look, I think Moss is an exceptional player and he should be inducted into Canton the second he's eligible. But he's not Jerry Rice. That's ridiculous.

I would agree 100 percent but I will say in defense of Moss, the season he caught 23 TD's was the greatest season I ever witnessed by a WR. I know that's not the question here but I'm just throwing that in there.

That was an AMAZING season, no doubt. But Rice's '95 season (122 for 1,848 and 15 TDs) stands out to me.

That was a lot of receptions and yards, no doubt. Another thing to note about Moss is that he only caught 100 receptions twice in his career, and he only caught 90 or more 3 times in his career. I guess one could argue his big plays didn't allow for so many receptions, he didn't have to Wes Welker you (like how I turned Wes Welker into a verb) down the field but still, I would have bet money on the over if someone asked me if Moss only caught 90 or more passes in a year 3 times in his career.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Moss was more naturally gifted than Owens; Owens would do more on the field than Moss (e.g. he didn't quit on plays, he'd run routes across the middle of the field, etc.) Both were all-time great WRs and also had huge issues. Not sure which one I'd want on my team if I was a head coach.

If Moss made the same effort that Owens did, I think Moss would win this easily. But he didn't, so it's a toss up.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Moss was more naturally gifted than Owens; Owens would do more on the field than Moss (e.g. he didn't quit on plays, he'd run routes across the middle of the field, etc.) Both were all-time great WRs and also had huge issues. Not sure which one I'd want on my team if I was a head coach. If Moss made the same effort that Owens did, I think Moss would win this easily. But he didn't, so it's a toss up.

But you can make that same argument about Hines Ward over Moss. HInes did more on the field than Moss, so did Cris Carter, so did Steve Largent etc.....but at some point you have to cut lose the what if's about Moss in terms of what he could have done IF he tried every play, what if Barry Sanders ran behind the Dallas 0-line. It is what it is and what I saw was definately an edge for Moss, as great as TO was/is.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I would agree 100 percent but I will say in defense of Moss, the season he caught 23 TD's was the greatest season I ever witnessed by a WR. I know that's not the question here but I'm just throwing that in there.

Rice's strike-shortened 1987 season was pretty impressive, too:

Week	Rec	Yds	TD1	8	106	12	4	86	26	6	89	17	3	70	18	7	77	19	4	108	210	7	103	311	7	126	312	4	90	113	8	75	314	4	58	215	3	90	2Totals	65	1078	22

 

[Dr. Awesome]

fixed

A bit silly to change it after so many votes were already cast.TO > Moss.

 

[todisco1]

Moss was the best at running deep, but I will take TO's overall game. Close, though, we're talking about two of the best.

 

[Pipes]

Moss was more naturally gifted than Owens; Owens would do more on the field than Moss (e.g. he didn't quit on plays, he'd run routes across the middle of the field, etc.) Both were all-time great WRs and also had huge issues. Not sure which one I'd want on my team if I was a head coach. If Moss made the same effort that Owens did, I think Moss would win this easily. But he didn't, so it's a toss up.

But you can make that same argument about Hines Ward over Moss. HInes did more on the field than Moss, so did Cris Carter, so did Steve Largent etc.....but at some point you have to cut lose the what if's about Moss in terms of what he could have done IF he tried every play, what if Barry Sanders ran behind the Dallas 0-line. It is what it is and what I saw was definately an edge for Moss, as great as TO was/is.

No you can't. Hines Ward's numbers aren't in the same ballpark as Moss...TO's are. Teams really didn't game plan around guys like Ward, Cris Carter, etc. TO and Moss are in an elite class. I voted T.O. mainly due to his competitive drive. What he did in the Super Bowl on not fully healed broken leg was amazing. Moss took too many plays off, hell he took a complete season off, for me to rank him above TO.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Moss was more naturally gifted than Owens; Owens would do more on the field than Moss (e.g. he didn't quit on plays, he'd run routes across the middle of the field, etc.) Both were all-time great WRs and also had huge issues. Not sure which one I'd want on my team if I was a head coach. If Moss made the same effort that Owens did, I think Moss would win this easily. But he didn't, so it's a toss up.

But you can make that same argument about Hines Ward over Moss. HInes did more on the field than Moss, so did Cris Carter, so did Steve Largent etc.....but at some point you have to cut lose the what if's about Moss in terms of what he could have done IF he tried every play, what if Barry Sanders ran behind the Dallas 0-line. It is what it is and what I saw was definately an edge for Moss, as great as TO was/is.

It's not about what-ifs. The way things played out, you could definitely assert that Moss was better than Owens, or you could say Owens was better than Moss, and neither of those positions is outrageous. They're pretty close - if you think Moss was better, that's fine, but he's not definitively better.My point is simply that if Moss had tried harder, it wouldn't even be close. He would definitively be the #2 (or maybe even the #1). But he didn't try harder, so it is close.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Moss was more naturally gifted than Owens; Owens would do more on the field than Moss (e.g. he didn't quit on plays, he'd run routes across the middle of the field, etc.) Both were all-time great WRs and also had huge issues. Not sure which one I'd want on my team if I was a head coach. If Moss made the same effort that Owens did, I think Moss would win this easily. But he didn't, so it's a toss up.

But you can make that same argument about Hines Ward over Moss. HInes did more on the field than Moss, so did Cris Carter, so did Steve Largent etc.....but at some point you have to cut lose the what if's about Moss in terms of what he could have done IF he tried every play, what if Barry Sanders ran behind the Dallas 0-line. It is what it is and what I saw was definately an edge for Moss, as great as TO was/is.

It's not about what-ifs. The way things played out, you could definitely assert that Moss was better than Owens, or you could say Owens was better than Moss, and neither of those positions is outrageous. They're pretty close - if you think Moss was better, that's fine, but he's not definitively better.My point is simply that if Moss had tried harder, it wouldn't even be close. He would definitively be the #2 (or maybe even the #1). But he didn't try harder, so it is close.

I know what you're saying and I'm not trying to argue but you are saying or putting into effect "what if's." You're saying what if he would have tried harder, then we wouldn't even have this debate about who's NO. 2, that he would clearly be that guy.I could say "what if" Barry Sanders was on Dallas and Emmitt was on Detroit, we wouldn't even have the conversation about who was possibly better between those 2, it would be so obvious etc....It is important to block, there's no doubt but when determining who was better between those 2 guys, I am not going to make the deciding factor who was the better blocker, or who ran their routes better when the play wasn't coming to them or who was a better clubhouse guy, who treated their coach or QB with more respect.Who was harder to stop, who made the better plays more often etc....so are the things I base my opinion on in terms of who was better, not who I'd like to coach personally, or who I'd like my son to emulate if he were a WR.Now, it's 80 percent or more for Owens over Moss in who's better, that's worse than the 80 percent poll of Marshall over Emmitt we had in here awhile back. Seriously, I'm starting to worry about the knowledge base in the SP when I see this stuff.

 

[Manster]

Moss > TO

Both all-time great WR's. TO's butter fingers seal the deal for me.

 

[Tau837]

The only person I've seen "argue" for Moss is LHUCKS.Look, I think Moss is an exceptional player and he should be inducted into Canton the second he's eligible. But he's not Jerry Rice. That's ridiculous.

I would agree 100 percent but I will say in defense of Moss, the season he caught 23 TD's was the greatest season I ever witnessed by a WR. I know that's not the question here but I'm just throwing that in there.

That was an AMAZING season, no doubt. But Rice's '95 season (122 for 1,848 and 15 TDs) stands out to me.

And his 1987 season - 23 TDs in 12 games.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Now, it's 80 percent or more for Owens over Moss in who's better, that's worse than the 80 percent poll of Marshall over Emmitt we had in here awhile back. Seriously, I'm starting to worry about the knowledge base in the SP when I see this stuff.

This is what you're getting wrong. You're demeaning people's knowledge of the game because they're voting for Owens ahead of Moss. There's nothing wrong with that - like I said, it's totally legitimate to think Moss was a better WR than Owens, but it's also totally legitimate to think Owens was a better WR than Moss. Neither argument is obviously right or wrong.If Moss had tried harder, then he would probably overwhelmingly be considered better than Owens. But he didn't, so he isn't. Again, that's not a "what-if" situation, that's just a fact.

 

[Carver]

If Moss had the heart of a Troy Brown or Mike Irvin, he would be so far ahead of any other WR that ever lived, he might never be caught.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

If Moss had the heart of a Troy Brown or Mike Irvin, he would be so far ahead of any other WR that ever lived, he might never be caught.

If Isiah Thomas would have been 7 foot, he would have been the best basketball player ever.I really don't understand all the "what if's" rather than dealing with the cards that have been played. Randy Moss is who he is and we need to evaluate him based on exactly that, not the magical "what if's."If Lawrence Taylor would have lived his life a different way, maybe he would have been ever a great defensive player. Maybe all the drugs he did slowed him down afterwhile, maybe.......

 

[Carver]

it's also totally legitimate to think Owens was a better WR than Moss.

No. No it's not. I seriously question the football knowledge of anyone making a case for Owens over Moss. It's ridiculous.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Now, it's 80 percent or more for Owens over Moss in who's better, that's worse than the 80 percent poll of Marshall over Emmitt we had in here awhile back. Seriously, I'm starting to worry about the knowledge base in the SP when I see this stuff.

This is what you're getting wrong. You're demeaning people's knowledge of the game because they're voting for Owens ahead of Moss. There's nothing wrong with that - like I said, it's totally legitimate to think Moss was a better WR than Owens, but it's also totally legitimate to think Owens was a better WR than Moss. Neither argument is obviously right or wrong.If Moss had tried harder, then he would probably overwhelmingly be considered better than Owens. But he didn't, so he isn't. Again, that's not a "what-if" situation, that's just a fact.

Is it legitimate to think that Moss is better than Rice or is that somehow fact because he's Jerry Rice? My beef isn't that someone thinks Owens is better than Moss, it's that it's nearly 80 percent Owens and 20 percent Moss. Usually I don't say anything but for me this stems from the other poll of Marshall Faulk over Emmitt Smith and that was close to the same, 80/20. I thought that was a crazy percentage, one that made the SP look bad and I think this is very similar.FWIW, I have always liked Owens over Moss in terms of players. Heck, Owens was a Cowboy and he did extremely well with the Cowboys, while Moss actually hated the Cowboys and had many of his best games versus them. I'm throwing any bias out the window and just saying it like it is, Moss was the better wide receiver, just like Jerry Rice was better than Randy Moss.I think T. Owens is better than Marvin Harrison, I think he's better than Steve Largent, he's better than most WR's but in the modern era, Moss is only second to Rice.

 

[Carver]

If Moss had the heart of a Troy Brown or Mike Irvin, he would be so far ahead of any other WR that ever lived, he might never be caught.

If Isiah Thomas would have been 7 foot, he would have been the best basketball player ever.

Apples and oranges. Moss had control over the situation. He CHOSE to squander three or four years away. It was never a question of if he could do it, just if he wanted to do it. He always had the tools. Moss at his best was absolutely uncoverable.

 

[finito]

it's also totally legitimate to think Owens was a better WR than Moss.

No. No it's not. I seriously question the football knowledge of anyone making a case for Owens over Moss. It's ridiculous.

no it's not.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

it's also totally legitimate to think Owens was a better WR than Moss.

No. No it's not. I seriously question the football knowledge of anyone making a case for Owens over Moss. It's ridiculous.

Owens started 10 more games than Moss. He has 124 more receptions and 1076 more receiving yards than Moss. They're tied in receiving TDs. Moss was the better deep threat and had better hands; Owens was tougher, would run a wider variety of routes, and was more dedicated to the game. He put up an all-time performance in a Super Bowl on a broken leg.

It's ok to think Moss was better than Owens. But it's also ok to think that Owens was better than Moss. They're very close. Granted, Moss could have made it a much easier decision, but he chose not to.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

fixed

A bit silly to change it after so many votes were already cast.TO > Moss.

Why, I zeroed them out?

 

[sihaokills]

Moss

 

[Ghost Rider]

It is close between Moss and Owens, and why is Marvin Harrison not a part of this conversation? He was arguably as great as both, if not maybe a little better.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

My beef isn't that someone thinks Owens is better than Moss, it's that it's nearly 80 percent Owens and 20 percent Moss.

I don't know where these numbers are coming from; I think my poll results might be broken because OP changed the poll after people had already voted? I'm only seeing like 7 votes.In any case, it's ok for most people to think Owens was a better WR than Moss. You seem to be voting based purely on physical ability; many people frame the question differently. The fact is that Moss is probably a more natuarally gifted athlete than Owens but that didn't always translate to production on the field, which is really what matters, no? History is littered with people who didn't live up to their full potential, including Randy Moss. Whether or not you think that's relevant, many people do.

It's a testament to his ability that Randy Moss didn't give his all and is still one of the 3-5 best WR of all time. If he had lived up to his full potential, he'd unquestionably be #2 by a mile and may have surpassed Rice. But he didn't. Despite his potential, the results he actually produced are very comparable to Owens.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

it's also totally legitimate to think Owens was a better WR than Moss.

No. No it's not. I seriously question the football knowledge of anyone making a case for Owens over Moss. It's ridiculous.

Owens started 10 more games than Moss. He has 124 more receptions and 1076 more receiving yards than Moss. They're tied in receiving TDs. Moss was the better deep threat and had better hands; Owens was tougher, would run a wider variety of routes, and was more dedicated to the game. He put up an all-time performance in a Super Bowl on a broken leg.

It's ok to think Moss was better than Owens. But it's also ok to think that Owens was better than Moss. They're very close. Granted, Moss could have made it a much easier decision, but he chose not to.

To hell with your facts. Nevermind the fact TO also gave it his all nearly every play and was a better blocker. Carver questions the football knowledge of anyone making a case for Owens over Moss. That's clearly beyond refute. I don't knock anyone for choosing Moss. It's very close. I happen to think TO edges him out.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

fixed

A bit silly to change it after so many votes were already cast.TO > Moss.

Why, I zeroed them out?

My vote was still showing. And after I deleted my initial vote it's not letting me vote again.

 

[Shutout]

Both gave me some of my favorite football and fantasy football memories over the last decade, albeit in different ways.

Both were awesome and I actually enjoyed one of T.O.'s plays best where he didn't have the ball (he ran down a viking after a piack, demolishing everyone in his way..saved a TD).

But when it comes down to it, I remember watching Moss when he had the fire and something to prove and there was nothing like him. what he did to the cowboys on thanksgiving day after they passed on him was rediculous. The show he put on in Green Bay on MNF...absurd. The stats he put up at the beginning of his career...remarkable.

Randy Moss is the only thing that kept Randy Moss from legitimizing the Jerry Vs. Randy debate. It could have been that close.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

My beef isn't that someone thinks Owens is better than Moss, it's that it's nearly 80 percent Owens and 20 percent Moss.

I don't know where these numbers are coming from; I think my poll results might be broken because OP changed the poll after people had already voted? I'm only seeing like 7 votes.In any case, it's ok for most people to think Owens was a better WR than Moss. You seem to be voting based purely on physical ability; many people frame the question differently. The fact is that Moss is probably a more natuarally gifted athlete than Owens but that didn't always translate to production on the field, which is really what matters, no? History is littered with people who didn't live up to their full potential, including Randy Moss. Whether or not you think that's relevant, many people do.

It's a testament to his ability that Randy Moss didn't give his all and is still one of the 3-5 best WR of all time. If he had lived up to his full potential, he'd unquestionably be #2 by a mile and may have surpassed Rice. But he didn't. Despite his potential, the results he actually produced are very comparable to Owens.

I don't know how you can say he didn't live up to his potential, I really don't. The guy was drafted mid first round and he ended up having a HOF career and considered a top 5 WR by all, and considered a top 3 by many. How is that not living up to your potential?Are you saying because you saw a flaw in his game that you are saying he isn't living up to his potential? I don't look at Randy Moss or Terrell Owens as players and thinking that they didn't live up to their potential.

I don't look at TO and think, boy, if that guy could have just gotten along with his starting Qb's more, he really could have been special. Geez, if Randy Moss would have just blocked on some of those sweeps the sky was the limit for that guy.

There's only so much potential in anyone. If you're a top 5 guy of ALL TIME, you lived up to your potential, come on.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

it's also totally legitimate to think Owens was a better WR than Moss.

No. No it's not. I seriously question the football knowledge of anyone making a case for Owens over Moss. It's ridiculous.

Owens started 10 more games than Moss. He has 124 more receptions and 1076 more receiving yards than Moss. They're tied in receiving TDs. Moss was the better deep threat and had better hands; Owens was tougher, would run a wider variety of routes, and was more dedicated to the game. He put up an all-time performance in a Super Bowl on a broken leg.

It's ok to think Moss was better than Owens. But it's also ok to think that Owens was better than Moss. They're very close. Granted, Moss could have made it a much easier decision, but he chose not to.

To hell with your facts. Nevermind the fact TO also gave it his all nearly every play and was a better blocker. Carver questions the football knowledge of anyone making a case for Owens over Moss. That's clearly beyond refute. I don't knock anyone for choosing Moss. It's very close. I happen to think TO edges him out.

Hey Dr. Awesome,I can appreciate your opinion that TO edges him out, and he did try hard when he was out there, but that also led to a lot of TO's off the field troubles that people seem to forget. Most people are pointing out that Randy Moss took some plays off during a game but are forgetting the fact that for many years, TO was considered a cancer to even have on a team, much more than Randy Moss.

There are tons of old threads on here talking about is TO worth even having on a team, is it worth the risk and many informative posters thought it wasn't worth it. I for one applauded the Cowboys getting TO when they did, even with the whole star incident because of how good of a player he was but TO was a big time distraction to a team, much more than Randy Moss was.

I don't think that should play a large part in your decision making process, but since so many are pointing out how hard TO played during games, it's also important to point out we're not talking about Mary Poppins here, TO brought his own set of problems to any team he was on.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I don't know how you can say he didn't live up to his potential, I really don't. The guy was drafted mid first round and he ended up having a HOF career and considered a top 5 WR by all, and considered a top 3 by many. How is that not living up to your potential?

Are you saying because you saw a flaw in his game that you are saying he isn't living up to his potential? I don't look at Randy Moss or Terrell Owens as players and thinking that they didn't live up to their potential.

I don't look at TO and think, boy, if that guy could have just gotten along with his starting Qb's more, he really could have been special. Geez, if Randy Moss would have just blocked on some of those sweeps the sky was the limit for that guy.

There's only so much potential in anyone. If you're a top 5 guy of ALL TIME, you lived up to your potential, come on.

The argument from the Moss camp is that he's clearly the most naturally gifted WR; that, at his best, he was obviously a better WR than Owens and everyone else. I'm inclined to agree with that. His potential was to completely destroy Owens and everyone else, and make this a total nonissue. But he didn't. He put up numbers that are comparable to Owens, even though he's arguably much more talented. Thus, he did not live up to his potential. He's tremendously gifted - the fact that he's a top 5 WR without giving his all proves that. But he had the potential to make the discussion "Rice vs Moss" as opposed to "Owens vs Moss", and he didn't do that.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't know how you can say he didn't live up to his potential, I really don't. The guy was drafted mid first round and he ended up having a HOF career and considered a top 5 WR by all, and considered a top 3 by many. How is that not living up to your potential?Are you saying because you saw a flaw in his game that you are saying he isn't living up to his potential? I don't look at Randy Moss or Terrell Owens as players and thinking that they didn't live up to their potential. I don't look at TO and think, boy, if that guy could have just gotten along with his starting Qb's more, he really could have been special. Geez, if Randy Moss would have just blocked on some of those sweeps the sky was the limit for that guy.There's only so much potential in anyone. If you're a top 5 guy of ALL TIME, you lived up to your potential, come on.

Oh, come on. What if LeBron James keeps putting up huge numbers till the day he stops playing, but, despite never winning a championship, still ends up being widely acknowledged as a top 5 all-time player? Will you then say that he lived up to his full potential?