-OZ-
Footballguy
Agreed (I'm also an owner).
If only a contending team needed a power back.
(Carlos would like Boston)
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RB Carlos Hyde, JAC (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ebsteelers
- Start date
If only a contending team needed a power back.
(Carlos would like Boston)
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
If I were running a team, this is how I would create a smokescreen. Dangle the 'we're drafting Fournette at 2' bit followed up by the above. Nice work SF, but I ain't buying it.squistion said:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9381/carlos-hyde
According to Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline, the 49ers are "ready to give up" on Carlos Hyde due to his struggles with injuries.
Hyde has missed 14 games through three seasons, including 12-of-32 the past two years. He is now entering a contract year under a new front-office regime. It's possible the 49ers don't see Hyde's power-back skill set as a fit for new coach Kyle Shanahan's zone scheme. Hyde is also one of the NFL's least effective pass-catching backs. If Pauline's report is accurate, the 49ers could consider shopping Hyde for a middle-round pick on draft weekend.
Apr 12 - 10:29 AM
Source: Draft Analyst
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
No, I would imagine someone communicates to Hyde what their intentions are with the upcoming leak that he'll hear about. The 2nd part, yes, that's one possibility. Another is to deter someone else trading with CLE if they really want, say QB. It can go a few different ways but that's the type of confusion I'd be creating. Just seems like an obvious play here.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I completely agree.
You have a Coach/GM with shiny new six year contracts and a mess of a roster that needs to be overhauled at almost every position and the FIRST big move is draft a RB that will be long gone(or beat up and useless) by the time you get the rest of this train wreck turned around? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
FWIW, I also hardly think the prospect of being granted parole out of the Niners organization would "piss-off" Hyde. Right now moving on to CLE would look like a ray of hope if I were Hyde. Think about that.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Wasn't telesco dumb enough to trade up ONE SPOT to draft a RB in the first round that still hasn't had a 4yards/carry season or finished a season on the field? If I were SF I'd be doing everything in my power to get as many picks as possible. They need every last one..... and more. This draft will have good players in the mid-rounds. I wouldn't be surprised if a day-3 pick ends up starting at CB or WR for the 'Niners at some point this season.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
For a team with so many needs a RB upgrade seems like a really bad move.efactor said:
-OZ-
Footballguy
True. But trading him for a pick and then drafting a new back might make sense over the long haul.
Thought about it for a bit, I really would like his fit in Detroit.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Lol at the press ever reporting a Shanahan is interested in a 1st round RB. It's been what 15-20 years of history we can point to including Kubiak in Houston and Denver. They believe in there scheme and have never heavily invested in an RB. If they send Hyde out of town it will because they believe he doesn't fit their scheme. I'm more apt to believe he does and if the injury bug sails he's more likely to match Zeke's numbers from last year with fewer 20+ runs and a decent amount more carries.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
squistion
Footballguy
This seems to be an over-the-top speculation (and I don't think there is a chance he will be cut) but the rumor mill seems to be working overtime after the latest Hyde news:
NFL Draft Diamonds @DraftDiamonds 50m50 minutes ago
Could 49ers running back Carlos Hyde be cut or traded?
http://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/49ers-running-back-carlos-hyde-cut-traded/
NFL Draft Diamonds @DraftDiamonds 50m50 minutes ago
Could 49ers running back Carlos Hyde be cut or traded?
http://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/49ers-running-back-carlos-hyde-cut-traded/
steelers1080
Footballguy
So, in the first week with a new scheme, he's not amazing at it? Not sure why people are freaking out. Yes, the 49ers brought in a RB in the middle rounds of the draft, and they probably won't resign Hyde. He's still the best back on the team. If he plays for the 49ers this season and stays healthy, he's a top 12 back.
Joe Williams is a mid-level talent who has proven nothing in the NFL.
Joe Williams is a mid-level talent who has proven nothing in the NFL.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
steelers1080
Footballguy
Agreed. The most likely scenario is that he plays out this season, then leaves in FA. Second most likely is trade. There's 0% chance he'll be cut unless he has a catastrophic injury. He's still on his rookie deal, and costs almost nothing. Any team without a stud RB would be willing to part with at least some kind of pick for him.
Mavis
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Prior to the NFL draft, your post was perfectly cromulent. But now, there has been a sea change, and Shanny is on record as making statements about guys other than Hyde.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If you say so.
I thought the point about the coach saying that scheme doesn't matter was the relevant part that I quoted. The chronological order of events wouldn't change that.
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steelers1080
Footballguy
Fewer than Joe Williams?
Joe Williams is an ok RB who they got in the 4th round. Hyde is a proven Vet who Shanahan has previously talked glowingly about. Could Hyde not work out in Shanny's system and could Joe flourish? Sure, it's possible. But I adhere to the when in doubt buy the more talented player philosophy.
Also, I think that Hoyer is an upgrade over Kaep and Gabbert and will improve the blocking reads for Hyde.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree.
I spent some time watching Joe Williams and Matt Brieda and discussed that here and here you also have Kapri Bibbs who they traded for during the draft before drafting Joe Williams.
I think Carlos Hyde was a much better RB prospect than any of the competition and that he should be the lead RB in 2017 while healthy. Other RB will get some opportunity as a COP and possible heir to the starting job in 2018 if they do not retain Hyde who will be a free agent.
Fwiw I rated Hyde as a tier one RB prospect in the pre draft process, dropped him to a tier two RB post draft (mostly because he wasn't a 1st round pick and was at that time blocked by Frank Gore). Joe Williams and Matt Breida were not players on my radar prior to the NFL draft.
Williams game against UCLA is excellent. I think he shows more promise than Breida or Bibbs. I have not seen him play at a high level like this consistently enough to think he is close to the level of talent as Carlos Hyde.
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At what point does pre-draft rating lose it's relevance? Is it 3 years into the league? 5?
Sure, the college tape and draft pedigree are there. But what's he done in the pros (other than get hurt immediately after showing a brief flash)?
I think you could reasonably argue that there isn't a single back on the 49ers roster who can be trusted. You like Hyde based on a lot of things that are (probably) no longer relevant, and that's your prerogative.
Personally, I'm placing my bets on the cheap guy (Breida), because the others are too risky for their current prices.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
The pre NFL draft is where I rate players based on my perceived observations of their talent at the college level. In the case of Williams and Breida that is all you have to go off of and therefore the only fair way to compare them would be by looking at all of the players from similar context. The time frame that I use the pre NFL evaluation is 3 years, by which time it should be known how the player performs at the NFL level.
Hyde has performed pretty well under the circumstances although he has missed a lot of games. Kapri Bibbs has some NFL production but the other players do not besides Hyde, so such a comparison would be apples to oranges aside from their college performance. So working with what there is to make a fair comparison.
In 2016 Hyde was RB 14 overall in standard scoring leagues and RB 18 overall in PPR leagues. A RB 2. He missed 3 games. On a PPG basis Carlos Hyde was RB 11 in 2016 a RB 1.
In 2015 Hyde only played in 7 games. He had 13.5 PPG over those seven which is similar to RB 2 level (would have been RB 18 in 2016)
As far as if Hyde is a worthy investment at his current ADP is another conversation entirely, but based on my observations Hyde should clearly be the best RB to have on the 49ers in 2017 and he has performed at a starting caliber level for fantasy in the games that he has played thus far.
As far as my pre NFL draft evaluation being relevant or not, I predicted he would be a RB two in fantasy, and that is what he has been. So you can dismiss this as irrelevant if you want, but the prediction has been accurate.
Hyde has performed pretty well under the circumstances although he has missed a lot of games. Kapri Bibbs has some NFL production but the other players do not besides Hyde, so such a comparison would be apples to oranges aside from their college performance. So working with what there is to make a fair comparison.
In 2016 Hyde was RB 14 overall in standard scoring leagues and RB 18 overall in PPR leagues. A RB 2. He missed 3 games. On a PPG basis Carlos Hyde was RB 11 in 2016 a RB 1.
In 2015 Hyde only played in 7 games. He had 13.5 PPG over those seven which is similar to RB 2 level (would have been RB 18 in 2016)
As far as if Hyde is a worthy investment at his current ADP is another conversation entirely, but based on my observations Hyde should clearly be the best RB to have on the 49ers in 2017 and he has performed at a starting caliber level for fantasy in the games that he has played thus far.
As far as my pre NFL draft evaluation being relevant or not, I predicted he would be a RB two in fantasy, and that is what he has been. So you can dismiss this as irrelevant if you want, but the prediction has been accurate.
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Hyde has been one the best runners in the NFL each of the last 2 seasons. Yes, it sucks that he has gotten hurt, but he's a been a probowl caliber runner when healthy, and is the best player on the 49ers offense by a wide margin. Its crazy how people just see a new shiny toy, and just assume they'll be a threat. I wouldn't be shocked if Brieda didn't even make the team, and Williams is no lock to beat out Hightower, let alone threaten Hyde. This feels like a great time to buy low on Hyde.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Other than be a top 10 rusher per game while on a dumpster fire of a team?
Average more per carry than DeMarco Murray, Melvin gordon, David Johnson, Lagarette Blount, etc (#11 last year)?
Been pretty much the only 49er on offense to be above average?
Nothing I guess.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
tangfoot said:
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Breida never holds a regular job in the NFL. I hope for his sake that I'm wrong, but I don't see NFL caliber talent there.
spider321
Footballguy
Obviously, a couple of you are invested in Joe Williams. Full disclosure, I have some stock in Hyde.
Hyde has certainly had his share of injuries, but when healthy, he has done well.
Now, maybe Joe Williams will get a shot at the job, maybe he won't. Maybe Hyde will end up leaving in free agency after the season, maybe he won't.
...buuuutttt, I really don't think a 24 year-old rookie 4th round pick is going to be the long-term answer even if Hyde ends up gone.
Hyde has certainly had his share of injuries, but when healthy, he has done well.
Now, maybe Joe Williams will get a shot at the job, maybe he won't. Maybe Hyde will end up leaving in free agency after the season, maybe he won't.
...buuuutttt, I really don't think a 24 year-old rookie 4th round pick is going to be the long-term answer even if Hyde ends up gone.
steelers1080
Footballguy
So Hyde is still the RB1, and he'll have to "fend off" his competitors. Oh, you mean like every RB in the league? Gee, thanks.Faust said:
The Joe Williams hype is just that, hype. It's fluff that gives people something to say in the offseason. Could he be the starter in 2018 when Hyde probably leaves? Of course, but the odds of him unseating Hyde this year, without an injury, are slim.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
It's not as black and white as some of you make it. I think Hyde will represent great value in redraft. I'm not viewing Williams as a replacement but what I do view him as is someone who has the athletic prowess to walk into that system, if something were to happen to Hyde one way or the other, and be a top 12 back. If my cost for that is a 2nd/3rd round dynasty pick, it's well worth it.
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steelers1080
Footballguy
But he's moving into the early 2nd, like picks 13-16 in some rookie drafts. That's probably a round too high for him. A 3rd is perfectly reasonable.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
"According to the Sacramento Bee, undrafted rookie RB Matt Breida "had more highlights" than fourth-round pick Joe Williams at spring practices.
Williams' 4.41 long speed has been evident in practices, but Breida's speed is also "apparent," and Breida "was especially adept at catching short passes and turning up field quickly." Pass catching was not a part of Williams' game at Utah. Breida is a name to keep in mind this preseason. Among all running backs eligible for the 2017 draft -- drafted or not -- Breida posted the highest SPARQ score with 4.39 wheels and an otherworldly 42-inch vertical at 5-foot-9, 195."
Seems like there may be some solid talent in that backfield, which could hurt all of their values.
Williams' 4.41 long speed has been evident in practices, but Breida's speed is also "apparent," and Breida "was especially adept at catching short passes and turning up field quickly." Pass catching was not a part of Williams' game at Utah. Breida is a name to keep in mind this preseason. Among all running backs eligible for the 2017 draft -- drafted or not -- Breida posted the highest SPARQ score with 4.39 wheels and an otherworldly 42-inch vertical at 5-foot-9, 195."
Seems like there may be some solid talent in that backfield, which could hurt all of their values.
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Go back and read the thread on camp reports from last year. There may be no single piece of more useless information in all of sports than who "looks good" or "made highlights" in camp. Literally the entire list of guys that looked awesome is just a big long list of guys that had absolutely 0 fantasy impact in actual games. Most never even got to play.
ETA: Actually I'll do the legwork. Here's the list of guys in order until I got too tired to pull out the rest
Kenny Lawler
Trevone Boykin
Jared Goff
Blaine Gabbert
Keenan Reynolds
Michael Thomas (sorry, the Rams one)
Josh Docston
Cody Kessler
Mack Brown
Connor Cook
Wendell Smallwood
Leonard Hankerson
Greg Salas
Ka'Deem Carey ("the ONE running back standing out for the Bears this offseason".....whoops)
Jalin Marshall
Terrell Watson
Tajae Sharpe
Stephen Anderson
I don't feel like listing all the rest. We did eventually get some good (not great) notes about Tyreek Hill and Willie Snead, both of which worked out pretty good, but we're talking 2 guys out of 50 here with the other 48 being completely and utterly useless.
ETA2: Even the notes on Snead were that he was going to take a huge step forward, which he really didn't (basically repeated his rookie season, if anything regressed mildly).
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mphtrilogy
Footballguy
I'll be waiting for him to drop in my lap again this year and lead me to a big year like last year... he will be very undervalued this year imho
amnesiac
beer is good
reminiscent of Gore, towards the end of his run in San Francisco.
discounted guy who produced when healthy.
Rotoworld) CSN Bay Area believes Carlos Hyde will have to compete for the 49ers' starting job. Analysis: Longtime beat writer Matt Maiocco has seen what everybody else has, reasoning Hyde's injury history, contract status and unfamiliarity with new coach Kyle Shanahan's system has him on the defensive. Maiocco also believes it's noteworthy how hard Shanahan went after fourth-rounder Joe Williams in the draft. Maiocco expects a committee to develop even if Hyde is christened "starter." Tim Hightower is in the mix with Hyde and Williams.
ETA: personally i disagree with this but I admittedly own Hyde so maybe my judgement is clouded.
ETA: personally i disagree with this but I admittedly own Hyde so maybe my judgement is clouded.
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Maybe. Teams trade up for draft picks all the time and I'm sure people are going after these players hard in a similar manner. Does that mean they have a greater likelihood of success? Not sure, just asking the question.
steelers1080
Footballguy
No, it doesn't.
Also, people are acting like the 4th round is the 1st or 2nd round. Joe Williams could end up being good, that is a possibility. But it's just as likely that he'll flop or not pass Hyde, who has proven that he can perform on the NFL level.
All this "news" before camp starts is really just reporters' opinions because they have to print something and all they have is that Hyde is learning a new system, and that Shanahan wanted a 4th round RB. Wait until training camp, that's when the real news will come out because teams will actually be doing things.
