RB Carlos Hyde, JAC (1 Viewer)

[Milkman]

I think folks focus too much on combine numbers. With the ball in his hands, Hyde looks like a very good RB. I have watched Hyde play many times. The kid is big, has great vision, soft hands, and great balance. He lacks break-away speed but will immediately bring a running game where he lands.

He plays faster than his 40 time suggests.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Any chance we'll ever get the times he ran?

You can tell from his 10 and 20 yards splits that he's a mid 4.6 runner. He wasn't hurt at that point of his run... just like Eddie Lacy.

Is Lacy a good comp for Hyde? Is he more Lacy or Leveon? Or is another player a better comp in terms of how he will play and his potential. I really like Hyde but I fear it may be my bias for Lacy and Bell that is influencing my thoughts.

He is Eddie Lacy on paper. On tape he isn't. Lacy is a bulldozer running the football. Hyde has a style where he'd rather avoid contact and dance around defenders. I don't blame him. He can get away with that in college with the holes he had to run through. In the NFL, vs D-linemen and safties his size, he'll be brought down quickly. I think you're right. Thoughts of Lacy could sneak Hyde into the 1st round of the draft depending on those agility measurements. Le'Veon Bell is much faster and much quicker. He has starter talent, just not a superstar. Like any other back we have to see where he lands. On a team like Tennessee we can get a quick ROI from his situation. He'll be as good as his touches. I was bias too looking at the data. Thought I was looking at a better Lynch. I can't say I'm a huge fan. He doesn't use his greatest asset (his power) enough for me.

 

[Faust]

SI 64, Nos. 54-50: Carlos Hyde, Kyle Fuller, Bradley Roby and more

Doug Farrar

Excerpt:

No. 53: Carlos Hyde, RB, Ohio State

In an era of specialized backs, Hyde is definitely a throwback in the ways he bullied Ohio State’s opponents. In 2013, he gained 1,521 yards on just 208 carries for an impressive 7.3 yards per carry average and 15 rushing touchdowns. He did so despite missing the first three games of the season due to suspension following an alleged assault. He finished off his collegiate career with at least 100 yards in his last nine games, including two 200-yard performances.

“I think my game is what separates me,” Hyde said at the scouting combine. “What I bring to the table? I bring that passion. I play with a lot of heart. I feel like I bring that spark to the offense. When the offense needs something going, I feel like I can make it happen.”

Hyde will be a bruiser in what has become a speed league. How well will that work?

Strengths: As is true of most power-based backs, Hyde doesn’t give up if his first option turns into a brick wall — he can turn and cut quickly (especially for his size) and will get back up to optimal momentum quickly. Can also slip in and out of gaps to find openings. Enjoys dishing out punishment to defenders on outside runs — has an estimable stiff-arm and uses it liberally. Good blocker who will grade the way for teammates and get face-up with defenders.

Maintains his blocks to and through the second level of the defense, and has the straight-line speed to do so — this is one of his most prominent attributes. Has surprising speed to the outside and agility in short areas for his size, which makes him look more like a complete potential back at the next level. Hyde can build up a head of steam and outrun people in space as opposed to just beating the crap out of them. Can catch screens and swing passes — he’s clearly an every-down back.

Weaknesses: While Hyde is unquestionably the best power back in this class, one fault stands out — he doesn’t drive his legs when gang-tackled at or near the line, and he gives up yards by not doing so. Yes, he was the primary focus of opposing defenses a lot of the time, and he faced a lot of run blitzes, but that comes with the territory. And I’d like to see him hit the line with more speed at times; the best power backs have a fine balance between patience and velocity. The 4.66 speed he showed at the combine makes itself clear in these instances. At times, made big gains because opponents were focused on quarterback Braxton Miller; Hyde would benefit from a similarly mobile quarterback in the NFL.

Conclusion: At 230 pounds, Hyde is about maxed out for an NFL player of his type. In a league where defenses are unbelievably complex and move with lightning speed, the recent history of bigger, taller power backs isn’t pretty. Hyde can transcend that in the right system, but he’ll need to get a quicker head start out of the backfield — and use his body to break tackles at the line — more consistently before that becomes a reality. Shonn Greene, who played 5-11 and 227 pounds at Iowa, would be an excellent paradigm, because Greene was a bit more slippery and speedy at the line.

NFL player comparison: Jonathan Dwyer, Arizona Cardinals (6th round, 2010, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh Steelers)

 

[Sabertooth]

I think folks focus too much on combine numbers. With the ball in his hands, Hyde looks like a very good RB. I have watched Hyde play many times. The kid is big, has great vision, soft hands, and great balance. He lacks break-away speed but will immediately bring a running game where he lands.

Lacy lacked breakaway timed speed too. Didn't matter much though as he broke plenty of long gains. I agree that it is at times not needed.

 

[EBF]

I think folks focus too much on combine numbers. With the ball in his hands, Hyde looks like a very good RB. I have watched Hyde play many times. The kid is big, has great vision, soft hands, and great balance. He lacks break-away speed but will immediately bring a running game where he lands.

Lacy lacked breakaway timed speed too. Didn't matter much though as he broke plenty of long gains. I agree that it is at times not needed.

Lacy was one of the worst starters in the NFL at breaking long runs last season.

Here is the 20+ yard carry percentage among all backs who had 200+ carries:

CJ Spiller - 4.48%

DeMarco Murray - 3.69%

Alfred Morris - 3.62%

Frank Gore - 3.26%

Matt Forte - 3.11%

DeAngelo Williams - 2.99%

LeSean McCoy - 2.87%

Adrian Peterson - 2.87%

Reggie Bush - 2.69%

Ryan Mathews - 2.46%

Jamaal Charles - 2.32%

Chris Johnson - 2.15%

Maurice Jones-Drew - 2.14%

Knowshon Moreno - 2.07%

Zac Stacy - 2.00%

Marshawn Lynch - 1.99%

LeVeon Bell - 1.64%

Eddie Lacy - 1.05%

Fred Jackson - 0.48%

Ray Rice - 0.47%

Rashard Mendenhall - 0.46%

BenJarvus Green-Ellis - 0.45%

Hyde is a lot like Bell and Lacy in that he's not an elite NFL talent, but he could be a valuable FF asset with the right opportunity.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't know. He sure seemed like he broke off quite a few through the LOS. Of course sometimes players get caught from behind. I don't really recall that happening. I'm sure it did.

 

[Eminence]

I think folks focus too much on combine numbers. With the ball in his hands, Hyde looks like a very good RB. I have watched Hyde play many times. The kid is big, has great vision, soft hands, and great balance. He lacks break-away speed but will immediately bring a running game where he lands.

Lacy lacked breakaway timed speed too. Didn't matter much though as he broke plenty of long gains. I agree that it is at times not needed.

Lacy was one of the worst starters in the NFL at breaking long runs last season.

Here is the 20+ yard carry percentage among all backs who had 200+ carries:

CJ Spiller - 4.48%

DeMarco Murray - 3.69%

Alfred Morris - 3.62%

Frank Gore - 3.26%

Matt Forte - 3.11%

DeAngelo Williams - 2.99%

LeSean McCoy - 2.87%

Adrian Peterson - 2.87%

Reggie Bush - 2.69%

Ryan Mathews - 2.46%

Jamaal Charles - 2.32%

Chris Johnson - 2.15%

Maurice Jones-Drew - 2.14%

Knowshon Moreno - 2.07%

Zac Stacy - 2.00%

Marshawn Lynch - 1.99%

LeVeon Bell - 1.64%

Eddie Lacy - 1.05%

Fred Jackson - 0.48%

Ray Rice - 0.47%

Rashard Mendenhall - 0.46%

BenJarvus Green-Ellis - 0.45%

Hyde is a lot like Bell and Lacy in that he's not an elite NFL talent, but he could be a valuable FF asset with the right opportunity.

I disagree on Lacey, he's shown me is pretty special. A lot of toughness, hits the hole hard. He has a great build for his running style.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I don't know. He sure seemed like he broke off quite a few through the LOS. Of course sometimes players get caught from behind. I don't really recall that happening. I'm sure it did.

Barry Sanders sometimes got caught from behind.

 

[Mingooch]

Hyde is no Sanders for sure, but still like him a bunch in this draft

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah said "don't be surprised if the Patriots take a RB in the first round. Maybe Carlos Hyde."
The Patriots are faced with the fact that Shane Vereen and Stevan Ridley are both in the last years of their contracts, and they lost LeGarrette Blount via free agency to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hyde has the power to run inside, break tackles, and is also a good pass catcher out of the backfield. Carlos Hyde also offers the Patriots an instant upgrade over LeGarrette Blount, and could be the Patriots back of the future. While the first round could be a reach for Carlos Hyde, the move could definitely add another weapon to the Patriots offense.

Source: CollegeFootball 24/7 on Twitter

New England Patriots' draft needs: Carlos Hyde a surprise pick?

 

[Faust]

Patriots Draft Series: Carlos Hyde could fill short-term, long-term needs at running back

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Rotoworld:

NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah said "don't be surprised if the Patriots take a RB in the first round. Maybe Carlos Hyde."
The Patriots are faced with the fact that Shane Vereen and Stevan Ridley are both in the last years of their contracts, and they lost LeGarrette Blount via free agency to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hyde has the power to run inside, break tackles, and is also a good pass catcher out of the backfield. Carlos Hyde also offers the Patriots an instant upgrade over LeGarrette Blount, and could be the Patriots back of the future. While the first round could be a reach for Carlos Hyde, the move could definitely add another weapon to the Patriots offense.

Source: CollegeFootball 24/7 on Twitter

New England Patriots' draft needs: Carlos Hyde a surprise pick?

I don't think this will happen, but if it did he may move up to pick 1.02 in a number of rookie drafts.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Ohio State RB Carlos Hyde was voted the draft's best RB in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel's poll of 18 NFL scouts.
"Complete player," one scout said. "Stud. He's powerful. Great athlete. Great run feel. Catches the ball very well. He'll block. Picks up all the protections, even calls some protections. He's a good-hearted kid but he needs mentoring." Hyde is considered the only RB with a chance to slip into the first round, though most expect he's ticketed for Round 2. "He doesn't have the burst or acceleration to be a difference-maker," said another scout. "He doesn't have much juice." Hyde reportedly scored an awful 9 on the Wonderlic before improving to 13 at the combine. A third scout bashed Hyde's dedication: "When you meet him you don't totally buy in. They don't sell him at the school as your eat-sleep-drink football type. He enjoys the night life. Not as big on the work ethic during the week. Loves Saturdays. Doesn't really put in the time. Kind of plays on talent."

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports Ohio State RB Carlos Hyde is "on the (Browns') radar" at No. 35 overall.
Generally considered the draft's best running back, there's an outside shot Hyde comes off the board on day one. If not, the Browns and their beyond pathetic 2013 rushing attack would represent an ideal landing spot with Kyle Shanahan now calling the offense in Cleveland.

Related: Browns

Source: Mary Kay Cabot on Twitter

 

[Brewtown]

Bump

 

[Sabertooth]

Love the kid. Think he'd be terrible in Cleveland. Because well, It's going to be a circus.

 

[Faust]

Hyde is being mocked to the Titans in a number of sources, and that would be a great spot for his fantasy football value.

 

[Archer]

Hyde should get serious consideration for top 2 or 3 in dynasty or redraft leagues if he goes to Tennessee or Atlanta IMO.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

49ers traded with Miami to select Ohio State RB Carlos Hyde with the No. 57 overall pick in the 2014 NFL draft.
Hyde (5-foot-11 7/8, 230) started 20 games for the Buckeyes, turning 523 carries into 3,198 yards and 37 touchdowns. His career (6.11) and 2013 single-season (7.31) YPC averages each rank first in school history. Hyde managed 34 career receptions and is a work in progress in the passing game. He also lacks elite long speed (4.66) and short-area explosion (9-foot-6 broad jump). Hyde projects as a bellow NFL back, however, with deceptive lateral agility, light feet, and power to push piles. Though not nearly as "complete," you could argue Hyde has similar pure run talent to Eddie Lacy. The 49ers have a lot of depth at running back, but don't count out Hyde to eventually take over for Frank Gore.

 

[Faust]

Carlos Hyde taken 57th overall by San Francisco 49ersBy Kevin Patra

Around the League writer

Frank Gore has another challenger for his spot in the San Francisco 49ers backfield.

General manager Trent Baalke grabbed one pick out of his overflowing bushel of selections to trade up in the second round with the Miami Dolphins and take Ohio State running back Carlos Hyde.

The Dolphins received a second (No. 63) and fifth round pick (No. 171) in the exchange.

The 6 feet, 230-pound Hyde is a bulldozer with great size, explosive power and strength between the tackles. He is a downhill runner in the 49ers' mold who can catch passes out of the backfield. He ended last year with 100-plus yards in nine consecutive games.

Hyde is the just the latest runner who has entered the ring to try to take Gore's job. Others have failed mightily as the veteran runner continues to chug along as one of the most productive power backs in the NFL.

With the Hyde selection, the 49ers are looking towards a future without Gore, who is a free agent next season.

LaMichael James could be traded -- he didn't attend voluntary workouts and reportedly believes he needs a fresh start to find playing time. Kendall Hunter has long been Gore's spot-sub. Marcus Lattimore, a 2013 fourth-round pick, is coming off a redshirt season following ACL surgery and is expected to battle for time.

Adding Hyde to the group fortifies the 49ers ground game for the future.

The latest "Around The League Podcast" provides instant reaction to all the wild happenings in the first round of the 2014 NFL Draft.

 

[mr fancypants]

Carlos Hyde taken 57th overall by San Francisco 49ers

By Kevin Patra

Around the League writer

Frank Gore has another challenger for his spot in the San Francisco 49ers backfield.

General manager Trent Baalke grabbed one pick out of his overflowing bushel of selections to trade up in the second round with the Miami Dolphins and take Ohio State running back Carlos Hyde.

The Dolphins received a second (No. 63) and fifth round pick (No. 171) in the exchange.

The 6 feet, 230-pound Hyde is a bulldozer with great size, explosive power and strength between the tackles. He is a downhill runner in the 49ers' mold who can catch passes out of the backfield. He ended last year with 100-plus yards in nine consecutive games.

Hyde is the just the latest runner who has entered the ring to try to take Gore's job. Others have failed mightily as the veteran runner continues to chug along as one of the most productive power backs in the NFL.

With the Hyde selection, the 49ers are looking towards a future without Gore, who is a free agent next season.

LaMichael James could be traded -- he didn't attend voluntary workouts and reportedly believes he needs a fresh start to find playing time. Kendall Hunter has long been Gore's spot-sub. Marcus Lattimore, a 2013 fourth-round pick, is coming off a redshirt season following ACL surgery and is expected to battle for time.

Adding Hyde to the group fortifies the 49ers ground game for the future.

The latest "Around The League Podcast" provides instant reaction to all the wild happenings in the first round of the 2014 NFL Draft.

Going to be interesting for sure as Latimore is also able to go to camp this year

 

[Faust]

Carlos Hyde Drafted to Create RB Competition

Taylor Price

Senior Reporter

49ers.com

Theres been a distinct trend with Trent Baalke as the draft-day conductor for the San Francisco 49ers.

The general manager has selected a running back every year hes been the lead voice in the draft room.

Baalke continued the trend that dates back to 2010 when he selected Ohio State's Carlos Hyde with the 57th overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft on Friday evening.

We felt that it was a great value, Baalke said. He can give us great competition at the position.

San Francisco viewed the 6-foot, 230-pound runner as the best player available at the time of the selection.

Baalke said it wasnt indicative of how the team feels about second-year runner Marcus Lattimore. He did, however, admit that Hyde could be part of an eventual replacement plan for 10-year veteran Frank Gore, who enters the final year of his contract.

"I think you can look at it that way in some respects," Baalke said. "But the bottom line is (Hyde) was the best player available."

Going forward, Hyde will have to earn his role with the 49ers.

Theres only one football, Baalke said. Its up to the coaches to put the pieces together.

The 49ers could have taken Hyde, the Buckeyes standout, with the No. 56 overall pick, but Baalke elected to trade back with the Denver Broncos. San Francisco moved back seven slots in the second round and added the 171st overall selection (sixth round), plus a fourth-round pick in the 2015 draft.

Baalke, however, worked the phones again to work a trade with the Miami Dolphins. The 49ers moved up to make Hyde the 57th selection and gave up their 63rd and the 171st pick (both acquired from Denver) to pick Hyde.

With all that movement for one player, Hyde will be counted upon to be more than simply a power running back.

Hes not a home-run hitter every time he touches the ball, but he's capable just as Frank has been capable over his career to break some long runs, Baalke said. He runs our style of offense very well.

"He's got great vision. He's got great feet and he runs with his pads low. He can make the offensive line better and that's what you're looking for in running backs."

Hyde rushed for a career-high 1,521 rushing yards as a senior. Baalke said Hyde ran many of the 49ers schemes in college.

Baalke said Hyde excelled at making defenders miss at all levels of the defense. In addition, Hyde demonstrated catching ability, totaling 16 receptions in college.

As for pass-protection skills, a key ingredient to being a three-down back in the NFL, Baalke said Hyde has the size and strength to excel in the role. Ohio State employed a zone-read offense under coach Urban Meyer, but the 49ers are confident that Hyde can learn those blocking talents.

Other remarks from 49ers.com:

Hyde: "I'm definitely going to get in there and compete and keep that running game alive. I embrace competition. Competition brings out the best in me."

Expert: "The 49ers like to bludgeon people running the football. That's what Hyde can do. He does not turn down carries. Hyde can catch the football out of the backfield so effortlessly." -- Charles Davis, NFL Network

 

[cloppbeast]

Carlos Hyde had the worst 10 yard split I've ever seen - 1.69. I challenge any of you to find a running back who has succeeded in the NFL with such lack of acceleration.

Besides a number on a screen, his lack of burst shows up on tape as well. He looks like he runs in a swamp.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Carlos Hyde had the worst 10 yard split I've ever seen - 1.69. I challenge any of you to find a running back who has succeeded in the NFL with such lack of acceleration.

Besides a number on a screen, his lack of burst shows up on tape as well. He looks like he runs in a swamp.

I've got him at 1.65 -- same as Lacy, close to Foster. Not coincidentally two of his best comps IMO.

Brandon Jacobs was at 1.69 too though.

 

[Apathetic]

Carlos Hyde had the worst 10 yard split I've ever seen - 1.69. I challenge any of you to find a running back who has succeeded in the NFL with such lack of acceleration.

Besides a number on a screen, his lack of burst shows up on tape as well. He looks like he runs in a swamp.

I've got him at 1.65 -- same as Lacy, close to Foster. Not coincidentally two of his best comps IMO.

Brandon Jacobs was at 1.69 too though.

Interesting note about Jacobs... didn't he run like a 4.55 or so though? Made up a lot in the other 30 yds.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Carlos Hyde had the worst 10 yard split I've ever seen - 1.69. I challenge any of you to find a running back who has succeeded in the NFL with such lack of acceleration.

Besides a number on a screen, his lack of burst shows up on tape as well. He looks like he runs in a swamp.

I've got him at 1.65 -- same as Lacy, close to Foster. Not coincidentally two of his best comps IMO.

Brandon Jacobs was at 1.69 too though.

Interesting note about Jacobs... didn't he run like a 4.55 or so though? Made up a lot in the other 30 yds.

I almost didn't mention him since he's 260 pounds. Guys like that can get away with a lot that other players can't.

 

[ZWK]

I don't pay much attention to 10 yard splits. Three reasons for that:

- Different sources (e.g., Xue & nfldraftscout) tend to give very different numbers for them. When I looked at it last year, I think I found that one source's 10 yard splits were predicted better by the other source's 40 yard times than by the other source's 10 yard splits.

- I can tell a story for why the first 10 yards would be the most informative part of the 40 (it measures acceleration, which is more relevant than top speed), but I can also tell a story for why it would be the least informative part of the 40 (it depends on starting technique which is irrelevant on a football field, while the rest of the 40 depends on athleticism).

- I haven't done any number crunching on whether 10 yard splits are predictive of anything (after controlling for 40 times). Mainly because nflcombineresults.com doesn't include 10 yard splits in their default data table. I also don't recall seeing results from anyone else showing that they are predictive.

 

[Xue]

I don't pay much attention to 10 yard splits. Three reasons for that:

- I can tell a story for why the first 10 yards would be the most informative part of the 40 (it measures acceleration, which is more relevant than top speed), but I can also tell a story for why it would be the least informative part of the 40 (it depends on starting technique which is irrelevant on a football field, while the rest of the 40 depends on athleticism).

This about sums it up for me.

I'll add that, generally, the players with the better 10-yard splits usually are on the shorter (and lighter) side and/or have really good Verticals and/or Broad Jumps.

 

[cloppbeast]

I don't pay much attention to 10 yard splits. Three reasons for that:

- I can tell a story for why the first 10 yards would be the most informative part of the 40 (it measures acceleration, which is more relevant than top speed), but I can also tell a story for why it would be the least informative part of the 40 (it depends on starting technique which is irrelevant on a football field, while the rest of the 40 depends on athleticism).

This about sums it up for me.

I'll add that, generally, the players with the better 10-yard splits usually are on the shorter (and lighter) side and/or have really good Verticals and/or Broad Jumps.

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs. They often don't need to run farther than that. Getting to the hole quickly will cause defenders to take bad angles. Holes don't stay open forever in the NFL. Smaller scat backs tend to have an advantage with acceleration - Newton's law: a = f / m. One wouldn't expect a bruiser to have as much get-up-and-go.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde. He doesn't have much burst based on what I've seen on film. He looks very slow, like he runs in quicksand. I certainly respect that others see things differently, but Hyde's 10-yard split measurement seems to back me up. Some posters in the SP think Hyde plays faster than his measurements, though, so I guess we will see.

I must admit, Hyde has some shiftiness. He can find a hole laterally and make defenders miss - a rare quality for a back his size. I still can't get on board, though. I won't have Hyde on any of my teams.

 

[cstu]

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde.

10 yard splits are something I pay attention to and his was not good. He also didn't run the short shuttle (a good test of acceleration and change of direction) at the combine or do either at his Pro Day.

I will admit that Lacy's performance last year despite a terrible 10 yard split (1.65) - at his Pro Day no less - did sway me into drafting Hyde. My guess is that had Hyde run at his Pro Day he could have put up better numbers in the 40 than Lacy.

Despite the lack of acceleration I noticed Hyde hits the hole quickly, is able to fight for extra yardage, and rarely gets caught for negative yardage. A key for a back his size is the ability to catch the ball and he's a very good receiver.

 

[Bronco Billy]

IMO 10 yd acceleration is overrated. How often do you hear that RBs need to learn patience at the NFL level. It's all about vision, decisiveness, and immediate reaction as soon as the seam becomes available. Great acceleration can make up for reaction time, but either way the RB had to get into that seam quickly.

Once the RB is past the LoS and into the 2nd level - a burst that usually encompasses 3 yds +/- it becomes matter of either quickness or lateral agility to break off bigger gains, unless the D is out of position.

From what I have seen, Hyde understands waiting for the OL to get its job done and then sees the correct spot and is quickly decisive to get into it. Once he's through, he's got agile feet and some strong lateral ability to break off bigger plays once he's to the next level.

Again, IMO, some guys get hung up so much on measurables that they overlook the football players. I think more than a few NFL staffers are guilty of falling in love with numbers to the point of distraction also.

 

[cstu]

IMO 10 yd acceleration is overrated. How often do you hear that RBs need to learn patience at the NFL level. It's all about vision, decisiveness, and immediate reaction as soon as the seam becomes available. Great acceleration can make up for reaction time, but either way the RB had to get into that seam quickly.

Once the RB is past the LoS and into the 2nd level - a burst that usually encompasses 3 yds +/- it becomes matter of either quickness or lateral agility to break off bigger gains, unless the D is out of position.

From what I have seen, Hyde understands waiting for the OL to get its job done and then sees the correct spot and is quickly decisive to get into it. Once he's through, he's got agile feet and some strong lateral ability to break off bigger plays once he's to the next level.

Again, IMO, some guys get hung up so much on measurables that they overlook the football players. I think more than a few NFL staffers are guilty of falling in love with numbers to the point of distraction also.

To an extent all of the measurables are over-rated - after all like you said there are so many things that go into being a successful RB - but I don't think they should be ignored.

Alfred Morris is an example of a guy, like Hyde, with below average (not horrible) measureables but knows how to play RB. Looking at Morris' NFL success and the fact that Hyde had great success in college and is now on one of the top rushing teams in the NFL leads me to believe Hyde can be a successful RB.

 

[humpback]

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs. They often don't need to run farther than that. Getting to the hole quickly will cause defenders to take bad angles. Holes don't stay open forever in the NFL. Smaller scat backs tend to have an advantage with acceleration - Newton's law: a = f / m. One wouldn't expect a bruiser to have as much get-up-and-go.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde. He doesn't have much burst based on what I've seen on film. He looks very slow, like he runs in quicksand. I certainly respect that others see things differently, but Hyde's 10-yard split measurement seems to back me up. Some posters in the SP think Hyde plays faster than his measurements, though, so I guess we will see.

I must admit, Hyde has some shiftiness. He can find a hole laterally and make defenders miss - a rare quality for a back his size. I still can't get on board, though. I won't have Hyde on any of my teams.

The 10 yd. split has some relevance, but it really isn't representative of anything a RB does during the normal course of a game.

 

[jurb26]

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs. They often don't need to run farther than that. Getting to the hole quickly will cause defenders to take bad angles. Holes don't stay open forever in the NFL. Smaller scat backs tend to have an advantage with acceleration - Newton's law: a = f / m. One wouldn't expect a bruiser to have as much get-up-and-go.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde. He doesn't have much burst based on what I've seen on film. He looks very slow, like he runs in quicksand. I certainly respect that others see things differently, but Hyde's 10-yard split measurement seems to back me up. Some posters in the SP think Hyde plays faster than his measurements, though, so I guess we will see.

I must admit, Hyde has some shiftiness. He can find a hole laterally and make defenders miss - a rare quality for a back his size. I still can't get on board, though. I won't have Hyde on any of my teams.

The 10 yd. split has some relevance, but it really isn't representative of anything a RB does during the normal course of a game.

I don't nessecarily agree with this. Having a great 10 yd time can, but not always, lead to a player having great initial burst. In the NFL, vision is important because the running lanes are smaller and they close faster. So, assuming 2 guys have the same level of vision to see the hole, remote I know. The guy with better burst will have an advantage in exploiting it.

 

[humpback]

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs. They often don't need to run farther than that. Getting to the hole quickly will cause defenders to take bad angles. Holes don't stay open forever in the NFL. Smaller scat backs tend to have an advantage with acceleration - Newton's law: a = f / m. One wouldn't expect a bruiser to have as much get-up-and-go.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde. He doesn't have much burst based on what I've seen on film. He looks very slow, like he runs in quicksand. I certainly respect that others see things differently, but Hyde's 10-yard split measurement seems to back me up. Some posters in the SP think Hyde plays faster than his measurements, though, so I guess we will see.

I must admit, Hyde has some shiftiness. He can find a hole laterally and make defenders miss - a rare quality for a back his size. I still can't get on board, though. I won't have Hyde on any of my teams.

The 10 yd. split has some relevance, but it really isn't representative of anything a RB does during the normal course of a game.

I don't nessecarily agree with this. Having a great 10 yd time can, but not always, lead to a player having great initial burst. In the NFL, vision is important because the running lanes are smaller and they close faster. So, assuming 2 guys have the same level of vision to see the hole, remote I know. The guy with better burst will have an advantage in exploiting it.

When does a RB ever put his hand on the ground and sprint forward 40 yards as fast as he can with no pads on and no one else on the field? All things being equal, of course you'd rather have the guy with a quicker 10 yd. split (just like you'd prefer better measurables everywhere), but it still doesn't portray what a RB actually does.

Also, we're forgetting that Hyde only ran the 40 once and re-injured his hamstring during his run, so that time probably isn't his best.

 

[Apathetic]

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs. They often don't need to run farther than that. Getting to the hole quickly will cause defenders to take bad angles. Holes don't stay open forever in the NFL. Smaller scat backs tend to have an advantage with acceleration - Newton's law: a = f / m. One wouldn't expect a bruiser to have as much get-up-and-go.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde. He doesn't have much burst based on what I've seen on film. He looks very slow, like he runs in quicksand. I certainly respect that others see things differently, but Hyde's 10-yard split measurement seems to back me up. Some posters in the SP think Hyde plays faster than his measurements, though, so I guess we will see.

I must admit, Hyde has some shiftiness. He can find a hole laterally and make defenders miss - a rare quality for a back his size. I still can't get on board, though. I won't have Hyde on any of my teams.

The 10 yd. split has some relevance, but it really isn't representative of anything a RB does during the normal course of a game.

I don't nessecarily agree with this. Having a great 10 yd time can, but not always, lead to a player having great initial burst. In the NFL, vision is important because the running lanes are smaller and they close faster. So, assuming 2 guys have the same level of vision to see the hole, remote I know. The guy with better burst will have an advantage in exploiting it.

When does a RB ever put his hand on the ground and sprint forward 40 yards as fast as he can with no pads on and no one else on the field? All things being equal, of course you'd rather have the guy with a quicker 10 yd. split (just like you'd prefer better measurables everywhere), but it still doesn't portray what a RB actually does.

Also, we're forgetting that Hyde only ran the 40 once and re-injured his hamstring during his run, so that time probably isn't his best.

True, but it also seemed to happen at the very end there, so it prob didn't effect his 10 yd split

 

[biju]

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs. They often don't need to run farther than that. Getting to the hole quickly will cause defenders to take bad angles. Holes don't stay open forever in the NFL. Smaller scat backs tend to have an advantage with acceleration - Newton's law: a = f / m. One wouldn't expect a bruiser to have as much get-up-and-go.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde. He doesn't have much burst based on what I've seen on film. He looks very slow, like he runs in quicksand. I certainly respect that others see things differently, but Hyde's 10-yard split measurement seems to back me up. Some posters in the SP think Hyde plays faster than his measurements, though, so I guess we will see.

I must admit, Hyde has some shiftiness. He can find a hole laterally and make defenders miss - a rare quality for a back his size. I still can't get on board, though. I won't have Hyde on any of my teams.

The 10 yd. split has some relevance, but it really isn't representative of anything a RB does during the normal course of a game.

I don't nessecarily agree with this. Having a great 10 yd time can, but not always, lead to a player having great initial burst. In the NFL, vision is important because the running lanes are smaller and they close faster. So, assuming 2 guys have the same level of vision to see the hole, remote I know. The guy with better burst will have an advantage in exploiting it.

When does a RB ever put his hand on the ground and sprint forward 40 yards as fast as he can with no pads on and no one else on the field? All things being equal, of course you'd rather have the guy with a quicker 10 yd. split (just like you'd prefer better measurables everywhere), but it still doesn't portray what a RB actually does.

Also, we're forgetting that Hyde only ran the 40 once and re-injured his hamstring during his run, so that time probably isn't his best.

I've seen it theorized that this was purposeful knowing he was going to time poorly. I'm not saying I agree with the conspiracy theorists here, but he hasn't done anything to disprove that time was incorrect either.

I just don't see it with Hyde personally. He was running behind the best O-line in the country and I just don't see the wiggle/vision necessary to be successful in the NFL.

 

[humpback]

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs. They often don't need to run farther than that. Getting to the hole quickly will cause defenders to take bad angles. Holes don't stay open forever in the NFL. Smaller scat backs tend to have an advantage with acceleration - Newton's law: a = f / m. One wouldn't expect a bruiser to have as much get-up-and-go.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde. He doesn't have much burst based on what I've seen on film. He looks very slow, like he runs in quicksand. I certainly respect that others see things differently, but Hyde's 10-yard split measurement seems to back me up. Some posters in the SP think Hyde plays faster than his measurements, though, so I guess we will see.

I must admit, Hyde has some shiftiness. He can find a hole laterally and make defenders miss - a rare quality for a back his size. I still can't get on board, though. I won't have Hyde on any of my teams.

The 10 yd. split has some relevance, but it really isn't representative of anything a RB does during the normal course of a game.

I don't nessecarily agree with this. Having a great 10 yd time can, but not always, lead to a player having great initial burst. In the NFL, vision is important because the running lanes are smaller and they close faster. So, assuming 2 guys have the same level of vision to see the hole, remote I know. The guy with better burst will have an advantage in exploiting it.

When does a RB ever put his hand on the ground and sprint forward 40 yards as fast as he can with no pads on and no one else on the field? All things being equal, of course you'd rather have the guy with a quicker 10 yd. split (just like you'd prefer better measurables everywhere), but it still doesn't portray what a RB actually does.

Also, we're forgetting that Hyde only ran the 40 once and re-injured his hamstring during his run, so that time probably isn't his best.

I've seen it theorized that this was purposeful knowing he was going to time poorly. I'm not saying I agree with the conspiracy theorists here, but he hasn't done anything to disprove that time was incorrect either.

I just don't see it with Hyde personally. He was running behind the best O-line in the country and I just don't see the wiggle/vision necessary to be successful in the NFL.

This is all well and good, but my post was simply about the 10 yd. split not really being an accurate portrayal of what RBs do in a game.

FWIW, he said his hammy had been bothering him for a week leading up to the combine and he was on the fence about running at all. He also said he ran in the mid 4.5's in private workouts for teams later. Of course, that could all be bs as well, but I think it's worth mentioning.

 

[biju]

This first 5-10 yards means the most for running backs. They often don't need to run farther than that. Getting to the hole quickly will cause defenders to take bad angles. Holes don't stay open forever in the NFL. Smaller scat backs tend to have an advantage with acceleration - Newton's law: a = f / m. One wouldn't expect a bruiser to have as much get-up-and-go.

The NFL has many backs in the 230 lbs variety, and I would bet 95% of them have better acceleration than Hyde. He doesn't have much burst based on what I've seen on film. He looks very slow, like he runs in quicksand. I certainly respect that others see things differently, but Hyde's 10-yard split measurement seems to back me up. Some posters in the SP think Hyde plays faster than his measurements, though, so I guess we will see.

I must admit, Hyde has some shiftiness. He can find a hole laterally and make defenders miss - a rare quality for a back his size. I still can't get on board, though. I won't have Hyde on any of my teams.

The 10 yd. split has some relevance, but it really isn't representative of anything a RB does during the normal course of a game.

I don't nessecarily agree with this. Having a great 10 yd time can, but not always, lead to a player having great initial burst. In the NFL, vision is important because the running lanes are smaller and they close faster. So, assuming 2 guys have the same level of vision to see the hole, remote I know. The guy with better burst will have an advantage in exploiting it.

When does a RB ever put his hand on the ground and sprint forward 40 yards as fast as he can with no pads on and no one else on the field? All things being equal, of course you'd rather have the guy with a quicker 10 yd. split (just like you'd prefer better measurables everywhere), but it still doesn't portray what a RB actually does.

Also, we're forgetting that Hyde only ran the 40 once and re-injured his hamstring during his run, so that time probably isn't his best.

I've seen it theorized that this was purposeful knowing he was going to time poorly. I'm not saying I agree with the conspiracy theorists here, but he hasn't done anything to disprove that time was incorrect either.

I just don't see it with Hyde personally. He was running behind the best O-line in the country and I just don't see the wiggle/vision necessary to be successful in the NFL.

This is all well and good, but my post was simply about the 10 yd. split not really being an accurate portrayal of what RBs do in a game.

FWIW, he said his hammy had been bothering him for a week leading up to the combine and he was on the fence about running at all. He also said he ran in the mid 4.5's in private workouts for teams later. Of course, that could all be bs as well, but I think it's worth mentioning.

This was said earlier, but what part of the combine *IS* an accurate portrayal of what RBs do in a game? The points of the drills is to assess athleticism and dedication to preparation.

To me, if you can't find it in your schedule to learn proper technique for starting a 40 yard dash, why should I think you're going to give it your best after you've been drafted? Of course, I'm also not a talent evaluator for an NFL team and have no idea if this has any merit. But if it were my team I would find this line difficult to swallow unless you were an absolute top prospect. And even then, I'd be wary...

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

CSN Bay Area's Matt Maiocco predicts second-round pick Carlos Hyde will have more carries than Kendall Hunter and Marcus Lattimore this year.

It's a beat writer guess, but notable for our purposes. As the 49ers fancy Hunter a change-of-pace back and Lattimore is recovering from brutal knee injuries, it's conceivable Hyde will become second in line for feature back carries, behind only Frank Gore. Gore turned 31 in May and averaged 3.65 YPC over the final ten games last season. Hyde is worth a late flier in re-draft leagues.

Source: CSN Bay Area

Jun 4 - 9:57 PM

 

[humpback]

This was said earlier, but what part of the combine *IS* an accurate portrayal of what RBs do in a game? The points of the drills is to assess athleticism and dedication to preparation.

To me, if you can't find it in your schedule to learn proper technique for starting a 40 yard dash, why should I think you're going to give it your best after you've been drafted? Of course, I'm also not a talent evaluator for an NFL team and have no idea if this has any merit. But if it were my team I would find this line difficult to swallow unless you were an absolute top prospect. And even then, I'd be wary...

IMO the combine is pretty overrated when it comes to evaluating talent, but many of the position drills (off tackle reaction drill, blast read, etc.) are certainly more representative of what they do in a game than the 1st 10 yards of the 40 yard dash.

I was simply responding to the poster who said the first 5-10 yards means the most for a RB. I disagree, there are several things which are much more important for a RB. Even if you disagree, I think it makes sense to keep an open mind about it- it is possible that the bad performance was at least partly due to injury, it doesn't have to have been because of bad technique/lack of preparation.

 

[Bronco Billy]

The combine to me - as well as pro days - is more of a red flag event, as well as seeing if some of the lesser known players are physically capable. If a guy has a good D1 resume and doesn't put up a huge red flag or a bunch of small red flags.

Working out in tees and shorts in an optimum non-contact environment is wholly different that being in pads and getting whacked by other guys as big, strong , and quick or moreso. Some uber-athletes back off in that venue, others nondescript athletes step up and their athletic traits truly shine.

IMO I see too many guys here trying to use a few measurables to quantify with confidence the future performance of football players, or even worse to try to isolate one or two measurables to formulate some kind of sure-fire predictive formula.

I know one thing for sure - everything, and I do mean everything changes when the pads go on and the hitting starts.

 

[KellysHeroes]

He looked good to me on tape and landing in SF was the last thing I needed to make me draft him in the middle of drafts

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The combine to me - as well as pro days - is more of a red flag event, as well as seeing if some of the lesser known players are physically capable. If a guy has a good D1 resume and doesn't put up a huge red flag or a bunch of small red flags.

Working out in tees and shorts in an optimum non-contact environment is wholly different that being in pads and getting whacked by other guys as big, strong , and quick or moreso. Some uber-athletes back off in that venue, others nondescript athletes step up and their athletic traits truly shine.

IMO I see too many guys here trying to use a few measurables to quantify with confidence the future performance of football players, or even worse to try to isolate one or two measurables to formulate some kind of sure-fire predictive formula.

I know one thing for sure - everything, and I do mean everything changes when the pads go on and the hitting starts.

I think NCAA performance and combine measurements are best looked at together. What a guy did in college happens in the context of his overall athleticism.

If Reggie Bush had the same NCAA performance numbers as, say, Alfred Morris, it'd be a giant red flag. Guys with Bush's measurables should put up ridiculous numbers.

On the other hand sometimes players with very limited athletic ability still have NFL-useful traits, but what they did in college will look far less impressive.

So it's all of a piece. Looking at measurables without NCAA performance and looking at NCAA performance without regard for NFL-favorable physical ability are both wrong. Context is everything.

 

[FUBAR]

He looked good to me on tape and landing in SF was the last thing I needed to make me draft him in the middle of drafts

That's how I see it. I liked Hyde in college but wouldn't draft him unless he landed in a good spot.

San Fran is probably the best possible landing spot for him. Even better than Tennessee would have been.

 

[cloppbeast]

You can watch a guy play and think he looks slow - a sort of qualitative assessment. When the same player runs slow at the combine, it confirms your assessment, quantitatively. That's where I'm at with Carlos Hyde.

We've gone astray in debating the importance of combine measurements - a straw-man argument of sorts. We should debate whether or not Carlos Hyde is slow; or maybe whether he can still be good despite. The 10 yard split measurement was used as a premise to defend the conclusion that Hyde lacks acceleration. Even if we throw out this bit of evidence, I still think he's slow. I'm not the only one who said this based of his tape.

He can still succeed in the NFL despite lacking acceleration, but he will have to make up for it in other areas. Obviously, Hyde does have some other skills as evident by his 7.3 ypc at Ohio State.

But I'm just not buying it, obviously. He has some wiggle, decent vision, and a good bit of power. But he's just too slow for me. His lack of burst is a a glaring weakness, from my perspective. Of course, this all just my opinion.

 

[humpback]

You can watch a guy play and think he looks slow - a sort of qualitative assessment. When the same player runs slow at the combine, it confirms your assessment, quantitatively. That's where I'm at with Carlos Hyde.

We've gone astray in debating the importance of combine measurements - a straw-man argument of sorts. We should debate whether or not Carlos Hyde is slow; or maybe whether he can still be good despite. The 10 yard split measurement was used as a premise to defend the conclusion that Hyde lacks acceleration. Even if we throw out this bit of evidence, I still think he's slow. I'm not the only one who said this based of his tape.

He can still succeed in the NFL despite lacking acceleration, but he will have to make up for it in other areas. Obviously, Hyde does have some other skills as evident by his 7.3 ypc at Ohio State.

But I'm just not buying it, obviously. He has some wiggle, decent vision, and a good bit of power. But he's just too slow for me. His lack of burst is a a glaring weakness, from my perspective. Of course, this all just my opinion.

I'm not really seeing how it's a straw man to refute your flawed premise, but that being said, I don't think he's "too slow" to be a solid NFL RB by any stretch.

 

[cloppbeast]

I'm not really seeing how it's a straw man to refute your flawed premise, but that being said, I don't think he's "too slow" to be a solid NFL RB by any stretch.

You guys spent a lot of time refuting one "flawed" premise. Call it beating a dead horse rather than a straw-man.

 

[biju]

You can watch a guy play and think he looks slow - a sort of qualitative assessment. When the same player runs slow at the combine, it confirms your assessment, quantitatively. That's where I'm at with Carlos Hyde.

We've gone astray in debating the importance of combine measurements - a straw-man argument of sorts. We should debate whether or not Carlos Hyde is slow; or maybe whether he can still be good despite. The 10 yard split measurement was used as a premise to defend the conclusion that Hyde lacks acceleration. Even if we throw out this bit of evidence, I still think he's slow. I'm not the only one who said this based of his tape.

He can still succeed in the NFL despite lacking acceleration, but he will have to make up for it in other areas. Obviously, Hyde does have some other skills as evident by his 7.3 ypc at Ohio State.

But I'm just not buying it, obviously. He has some wiggle, decent vision, and a good bit of power. But he's just too slow for me. His lack of burst is a a glaring weakness, from my perspective. Of course, this all just my opinion.

A couple things:

1. I agree. I think he's too slow and given the speed in the NFC West defenses I don't like the combination.

2. His college production YPC is great but there are other factors at play here. For example, Ohio's O-line was one of the best in the country (the best per this study) and by watching the tape it looks to me like he was too. He has power with a full head of steam but he's not going to be afforded that luxury as much in the NFL.

This isn't to say I think he will completely fail, but I don't think his measurables shout success at all.

 

[cloppbeast]

2. His college production YPC is great but there are other factors at play here. For example, Ohio's O-line was one of the best in the country (the best per this study) and by watching the tape it looks to me like he was too. He has power with a full head of steam but he's not going to be afforded that luxury as much in the NFL.

You have to give him some credit, because he out-performed everybody else on his team who also ran behind great blocking. But he won't get that kind of push in San Francisco; nor will he receive the benefit of the read option nearly so often. So his performance in college, or at least his stats, need kept in perspective. The skills it takes to run a zone read offense behind a beefed up line against Indiana differs greatly from what he'll need to succeed in the NFL.