RB David Johnson, Retired (3 Viewers)

[addicted2ff]

So what are we basing the notion that Arians is stubborn upon? 2013 with Ellington as a rookie? Because that is really the only time I see in his coaching record where he kept the "best" RB on the bench in favor of a lesser talent (Mendenhall) and Ellington still got 175 touches that year. I think it is also possible that, like pretty much everyone in here, at the time he thought that at his size Ellington wasn't suited for the touches that a 3 down RB warrants.

Everywhere else it seems that he had little more than multiple middling talents and when he had a good one (FWP and PIT Mendenhall) he treated them like a workhorse.

There's that and there's the fact that DJ was pretty much a ghost the entire game until Ellington got hurt.

That seems like a pretty thin additional data point.

And then you have Arians saying Chris Johnson will be the guy.It's not a ton to go off of but all signs so far point to DJ not being ready yet. For my sake I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[Banger]

David Johnson looks great but Arians plays vets and I believe he already announced Chris as the starter. Arians is stubborn.

 

[Milkman]

Agreed but DJ should see some touches this Sunday. Maybe 10 total.

 

[Shutout]

Agreed but DJ should see some touches this Sunday. Maybe 10 total.

So, 550 yards on 10 catches and 10 TDs? I might flex him.

Seriously though, yeah it's a bit frustrating for DJ owners because you keep seeing him flash with limited work but it will take patience. On the whole, it is like was said above: if you're invested in him, you have to think his path to playing is going well. Ellington has already been hurt again and Chris Johnson is simply older and not what he once was.

 

[Phenomena]

Agreed but DJ should see some touches this Sunday. Maybe 10 total.

So, 550 yards on 10 catches and 10 TDs? I might flex him.

Seriously though, yeah it's a bit frustrating for DJ owners because you keep seeing him flash with limited work but it will take patience. On the whole, it is like was said above: if you're invested in him, you have to think his path to playing is going well. Ellington has already been hurt again and Chris Johnson is simply older and not what he once was.

Flashes != solid NFL player. Look at Christine Michael. Coaches know what they're doing. Arians is either not confident about David's bellcow ability or think he needs a little bit more time. ARZ employs a complicated offensive system so it may take a bit for a rookie to earn the trust of the QB/staff.

 

[Gr00vus]

Agreed but DJ should see some touches this Sunday. Maybe 10 total.

Yeah, you figure something like a 3:1 or optimistically a 2:1 split with C. Johnson getting the bigger share. I think that's all I'm hoping for this week. First D. Johnson needs to make the most of the opportunities he gets, then we can start surmising about whether Arians should make him the feature back.

 

[zamboni]

Agreed but DJ should see some touches this Sunday. Maybe 10 total.

Yeah, you figure something like a 3:1 or optimistically a 2:1 split with C. Johnson getting the bigger share. I think that's all I'm hoping for this week. First D. Johnson needs to make the most of the opportunities he gets, then we can start surmising about whether Arians should make him the feature back.

True - it took many, many weeks before Arians gave Ellington - as a rookie - even close to the number of touches that Mendenhall got - even though Ellington far outperformed Mendenhall. And even by the end of the season, it was still basically an even timeshare.

 

[Chaka]

So what are we basing the notion that Arians is stubborn upon? 2013 with Ellington as a rookie? Because that is really the only time I see in his coaching record where he kept the "best" RB on the bench in favor of a lesser talent (Mendenhall) and Ellington still got 175 touches that year. I think it is also possible that, like pretty much everyone in here, at the time he thought that at his size Ellington wasn't suited for the touches that a 3 down RB warrants.

Everywhere else it seems that he had little more than multiple middling talents and when he had a good one (FWP and PIT Mendenhall) he treated them like a workhorse.

There's that and there's the fact that DJ was pretty much a ghost the entire game until Ellington got hurt.

That seems like a pretty thin additional data point.

And then you have Arians saying Chris Johnson will be the guy.It's not a ton to go off of but all signs so far point to DJ not being ready yet. For my sake I hope I'm wrong though.

I agree with the second and I know the first but I was wondering if his reputation for being stubborn (as has been mentioned multiple times in here) is based off of anything other than Ellington's rookie year? He has been coaching for a long time and I don't see anything in his coaching history that suggests he won't go with the best player (mind you that knowing your blocking assignments goes into deciding who the best player is no doubt).

 

[Run It Up]

The payoff will come remain calm.

 

[chauncey]

So what are we basing the notion that Arians is stubborn upon? 2013 with Ellington as a rookie? Because that is really the only time I see in his coaching record where he kept the "best" RB on the bench in favor of a lesser talent (Mendenhall) and Ellington still got 175 touches that year. I think it is also possible that, like pretty much everyone in here, at the time he thought that at his size Ellington wasn't suited for the touches that a 3 down RB warrants.

Everywhere else it seems that he had little more than multiple middling talents and when he had a good one (FWP and PIT Mendenhall) he treated them like a workhorse.

Blast from the past. He was fun to watch, glad he got 2 rings in his short career.

 

[Chaka]

I don't think it should be called stubborn if Arians is worried that DJ won't be able to protect the franchise. They have seen what happens without Palmer in the lineup and I don't think any of you would start DJ if you had someone that you trusted to make the right reads on blitzes more.

 

[Chaka]

So what are we basing the notion that Arians is stubborn upon? 2013 with Ellington as a rookie? Because that is really the only time I see in his coaching record where he kept the "best" RB on the bench in favor of a lesser talent (Mendenhall) and Ellington still got 175 touches that year. I think it is also possible that, like pretty much everyone in here, at the time he thought that at his size Ellington wasn't suited for the touches that a 3 down RB warrants.

Everywhere else it seems that he had little more than multiple middling talents and when he had a good one (FWP and PIT Mendenhall) he treated them like a workhorse.

There's that and there's the fact that DJ was pretty much a ghost the entire game until Ellington got hurt.

Of course he was a ghost, Ellington was having a great game.

 

[zamboni]

I don't think it should be called stubborn if Arians is worried that DJ won't be able to protect the franchise. They have seen what happens without Palmer in the lineup and I don't think any of you would start DJ if you had someone that you trusted to make the right reads on blitzes more.

Agreed - we in FF land see the more explosive RB in DJ and expect Arians to go with him, but there is a lot more involved than explosiveness right now in Arians' eyes. Protecting Palmer is likely at the top of the list given what happened to the team last year when they had to rely on a bunch of backup scrubs at QB.

 

[steelers1080]

Maybe if CJ0K gets 10 rushes for -5 yards in the first half they'll let David get his shot?

 

[Chaka]

Maybe if CJ0K gets 10 rushes for -5 yards in the first half they'll let David get his shot?

Sure. Why not?

 

[Biabreakable]

Pretty sure it is about pass blocking and all the other little details that rookies take time to prove they can be trusted with those responsibilities.

Or you could call the coach stubborn for not doing what is good for your fantasy team.

 

[Run It Up]

The body sensor info from Sunday came out. Fastest ball carrier on game day was David Johnson, reached 22.05 mph.

 

[Milkman]

Lol at 225 pounds!

 

[imjackdupp]

Thats just sick, i have trouble driving 22 mph.

 

[Johnny Blood]

What is Arians going to say, that newly acquired veteran CJ sucks and a rookie who has done nothing is going to eat his lunch? That'd go over great in the lockerroom.

 

[Run It Up]

What is Arians going to say, that newly acquired veteran CJ sucks and a rookie who has done nothing is going to eat his lunch? That'd go over great in the lockerroom.

It would ppobably be a much bigger confidence booster than dropping him in and seeing what happens.

 

[Shutout]

I don't think it should be called stubborn if Arians is worried that DJ won't be able to protect the franchise. They have seen what happens without Palmer in the lineup and I don't think any of you would start DJ if you had someone that you trusted to make the right reads on blitzes more.

Agreed - we in FF land see the more explosive RB in DJ and expect Arians to go with him, but there is a lot more involved than explosiveness right now in Arians' eyes. Protecting Palmer is likely at the top of the list given what happened to the team last year when they had to rely on a bunch of backup scrubs at QB.

You guys are right. It is paramount. I get the logic of it. The fly in the ointment in that will be that THE paramount thing is to win games so CJ is going to have to produce at some acceptable level to keep Johnson on the bench. It is hard to ignore. All he does when he gets on the field is produce in explosive ways and I know that is right in line with Arians' overall philosophy.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The body sensor info from Sunday came out. Fastest ball carrier on game day was David Johnson, reached 22.05 mph.

He looked it.

 

[Chaka]

I don't think it should be called stubborn if Arians is worried that DJ won't be able to protect the franchise. They have seen what happens without Palmer in the lineup and I don't think any of you would start DJ if you had someone that you trusted to make the right reads on blitzes more.

Agreed - we in FF land see the more explosive RB in DJ and expect Arians to go with him, but there is a lot more involved than explosiveness right now in Arians' eyes. Protecting Palmer is likely at the top of the list given what happened to the team last year when they had to rely on a bunch of backup scrubs at QB.

You guys are right. It is paramount. I get the logic of it. The fly in the ointment in that will be that THE paramount thing is to win games so CJ is going to have to produce at some acceptable level to keep Johnson on the bench. It is hard to ignore. All he does when he gets on the field is produce in explosive ways and I know that is right in line with Arians' overall philosophy.

Well "acceptable level" means different things to different people but in 2013 the apparent acceptable level for Bruce Arians was 3.2 yards per carry. And Mendenhall wasn't ever overtaken by Ellington as the lead rusher in 2013. Mendenhall had 18, 17, 21, 21 & 10 carries in his final five games. Ellington had 10, 11, 10, 15 & 9 carries during those games.

 

[stbugs]

I just got an alert from the CBS FF app (didn't realize it was setup) that said Ellington is practicing.

 

[Johnny Blood]

Ellington is practicing on a limited basis today.

 

[Milkman]

Feeling the heat! Lolol he knows he's toast.

 

[Omniscient Deity]

This guy is flat out better than the washed up CJ, Arians would have to be an idiot to force feed CJ if this guy is more efficient. I can understand naming Chris the starter initially but I'd be shocked if this isn't at least a RBBC by week 3. He's a better runner and receiver.

 

[Chaka]

This guy is flat out better than the washed up CJ, Arians would have to be an idiot to force feed CJ if this guy is more efficient. I can understand naming Chris the starter initially but I'd be shocked if this isn't at least a RBBC by week 3. He's a better runner and receiver.

None of that matters unless he is better at keeping blitzers off of Carson Palmer.

I just don't understand why fantasy players continually ignore the real aspects of football that go into deciding who is the best player for the team. I guess it's because we don't grant fantasy points for an effective blitz pickup and they seldom make ESPN highlight reels.

 

[Run It Up]

This guy is flat out better than the washed up CJ, Arians would have to be an idiot to force feed CJ if this guy is more efficient. I can understand naming Chris the starter initially but I'd be shocked if this isn't at least a RBBC by week 3. He's a better runner and receiver.

None of that matters unless he is better at keeping blitzers off of Carson Palmer.

I just don't understand why fantasy players continually ignore the real aspects of football that go into deciding who is the best player for the team. I guess it's because we don't grant fantasy points for an effective blitz pickup and they seldom make ESPN highlight reels.

In college David Johnson was an elite pass blocking back.

Idk how he measures up against CJ, but hes much better than Ellington.

 

[humpback]

This guy is flat out better than the washed up CJ, Arians would have to be an idiot to force feed CJ if this guy is more efficient. I can understand naming Chris the starter initially but I'd be shocked if this isn't at least a RBBC by week 3. He's a better runner and receiver.

None of that matters unless he is better at keeping blitzers off of Carson Palmer.

I just don't understand why fantasy players continually ignore the real aspects of football that go into deciding who is the best player for the team. I guess it's because we don't grant fantasy points for an effective blitz pickup and they seldom make ESPN highlight reels.

In college David Johnson was an elite pass blocking back.

Idk how he measures up against CJ, but hes much better than Ellington.

You sure you didn't mean pass catching back? I've seen in a few places that he needs to work on his pass pro.

 

[imjackdupp]

This guy is flat out better than the washed up CJ, Arians would have to be an idiot to force feed CJ if this guy is more efficient. I can understand naming Chris the starter initially but I'd be shocked if this isn't at least a RBBC by week 3. He's a better runner and receiver.

None of that matters unless he is better at keeping blitzers off of Carson Palmer.

I just don't understand why fantasy players continually ignore the real aspects of football that go into deciding who is the best player for the team. I guess it's because we don't grant fantasy points for an effective blitz pickup and they seldom make ESPN highlight reels.

PPBP - gotta bring that up for a vote next year.

 

[Vision6]

Let's say Chris Johnson comes in and gets the lion share of the carries.

Does Arians then at least give DJ the goal line carries?

What say you Arizona homers

 

[SameSongNDance]

Let's say Chris Johnson comes in and gets the lion share of the carries.

Does Arians then at least give DJ the goal line carries?

What say you Arizona homers

It was supposed to be Taylor but he saw zero snaps last week so I suppose Arians just felt like trolling everyone.

IMO, next week, ARI is going to go into CHI and will see at best a 70/30 snap split in CJ's favor. I'd be slightly surprised to see DJ touch the ball 10 times. It would highly depend on game script.

 

[Gr00vus]

Anyone have any info on how the playing time will be allocated for the AZ running backs this Sunday?

 

[zamboni]

Anyone have any info on how the playing time will be allocated for the AZ running backs this Sunday?

Arians said that CJ will be the workhorse and that he doesn't want to overwork the rookie. So seems logical to expect around a 50/50 split.

 

[Milkman]

The thing is Arians is stubborn so even when it's clear that David Johnson is the future he'll stick to his guns and not turn it over to him. David Johnson might not win the lead back role until next preseason if ever. Silly for a team lacking weapons to hold arguably their best offensive weapon on the sidelines.

 

[TZMarkie]

The thing is Arians is stubborn so even when it's clear that David Johnson is the future he'll stick to his guns and not turn it over to him. David Johnson might not win the lead back role until next preseason if ever. Silly for a team lacking weapons to hold arguably their best offensive weapon on the sidelines.

Well, this may or may not be the case.

But we do have hope................

Ellington is currently out. (Let's face it, the team seems to love Ellington, and I don't mind him either)

Our chance is that David Johnson does indeed continue to show the play making ability that he flashed last week, even though it was on one play.

You and I, Arians and pretty much anyone can say what we want, but if the kid continues to show up like he did last week, the coach will not have much choice but to eventually take the plunge.

True, it may be a slow process. Hell, it may even be 4-5 more weeks of "limited touches but electrifying production", but sooner or later the talent rises to the top.

Regardless of what anyone here speculates, if David Johnson continues to get 3-5 touches a game, and really pops when he does, at some point the pressure will be immense to start giving him a lot more work.

This is even more true if Ellington stays out injured.

I think the worry at this point isn't CJ2K, but more that Ellington returns and does a serviceable job. They certainly like Ellington, no matter what anyone here says about his "gimpy, mediocre production" last year.

That would be what holds him back more than CJ2K.

I've been wrong before, but I don't think CJ2K will be the one to hold DJ down.

You almost have to hope that Ellington misses more time for DJ to really get a bigger, more appropriate chance.

I made sure to acquire David Johnson everywhere I got Ellington this year.

The truth is, I don't much care which one does the best......though I really like the looks of David Johnson, he certainly passes the eye test for me, and I'm not just saying that because of last week.

I just hope someone gives us RB2-ish numbers and gets a big workload every week, and it doesn't turn into some putrid committee.

I have Crowell and Duke Johnson on a couple of teams, and that looks like one big vomit bag of a committee at this point.

I don't need this AZ situation to turn into the same thing.

TZM

 

[RBM]

He gets some touches this week, I'm betting he makes the most of them against that Bear D.

This guy might turn into this years Antone Smith.

 

[Milkman]

He gets some touches this week, I'm betting he makes the most of them against that Bear D.

This guy might turn into this years Antone Smith.

That would be the worse outcome because Antone never got any work. Atlanta kept trotting out Freeman who's freaking terrible instead.

It looked like this all year.

Freeman 2 yards

Freeman 1 yard

Freeman -1 yard

Freeman 4 yards

Smith - 70 yard TD

Freeman -3 yards

Freeman 3 yards

Freeman 1 yard

Freeman 5 yards

Freeman 2 yards

Freeman 1 yard

Smith 60 yards TD

Freeman 2 yards

Freeman 2 yards

Freeman 3 yards

Freeman 1 yard

Freeman 1 yard

Smith hold up TO Atlanta

Freeman back in 1 yard

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

 

[Omniscient Deity]

The thing is Arians is stubborn so even when it's clear that David Johnson is the future he'll stick to his guns and not turn it over to him. David Johnson might not win the lead back role until next preseason if ever. Silly for a team lacking weapons to hold arguably their best offensive weapon on the sidelines.

But CJ is so much better at blocking! Who cares if CJ's washed up, right?

 

[Chaka]

The thing is Arians is stubborn so even when it's clear that David Johnson is the future he'll stick to his guns and not turn it over to him. David Johnson might not win the lead back role until next preseason if ever. Silly for a team lacking weapons to hold arguably their best offensive weapon on the sidelines.

Again with the "Arians is stubborn" thing. I seldom see this logic applied in other threads (e.g. Zenner, Hayne, K.Williams even Christine Michael) why is everyone all over it in here? What is the evidence? I have looked over Arians history as a HC and OC and I don't see much to suggest that he won't heavily utilize the best RB on the team. 2013 with Ellington is the only example for a guy who has coached for a very long time.

 

[Milkman]

The thing is Arians is stubborn so even when it's clear that David Johnson is the future he'll stick to his guns and not turn it over to him. David Johnson might not win the lead back role until next preseason if ever. Silly for a team lacking weapons to hold arguably their best offensive weapon on the sidelines.

Again with the "Arians is stubborn" thing. I seldom see this logic applied in other threads (e.g. Zenner, Hayne, K.Williams even Christine Michael) why is everyone all over it in here? What is the evidence? I have looked over Arians history as a HC and OC and I don't see much to suggest that he won't heavily utilize the best RB on the team. 2013 with Ellington is the only example for a guy who has coached for a very long time.

Dear Chaka,

Declaring CJ0K the starter when he's hot garbage combined with the 2013 Mendenhall crap is more then enough evidence for me.

 

[Milkman]

Free David Johnson imo.

 

[Manster]

Free David Johnson imo.

Amen brutha!!

 

[Banger]

This could be like the mendnhall Ellington situation from a few years ago. The gap isn't that great talent wise but Ellington can't say healthy. Also Ellington didn't come into the league young so despite being a 3rd year player or so he's pretty old. Arians is stubborn and likes his vets. Johnsons time will come but it won't be nearly as quick as his owners want.

 

[Chaka]

The thing is Arians is stubborn so even when it's clear that David Johnson is the future he'll stick to his guns and not turn it over to him. David Johnson might not win the lead back role until next preseason if ever. Silly for a team lacking weapons to hold arguably their best offensive weapon on the sidelines.

Again with the "Arians is stubborn" thing. I seldom see this logic applied in other threads (e.g. Zenner, Hayne, K.Williams even Christine Michael) why is everyone all over it in here? What is the evidence? I have looked over Arians history as a HC and OC and I don't see much to suggest that he won't heavily utilize the best RB on the team. 2013 with Ellington is the only example for a guy who has coached for a very long time.

Dear Chaka,Declaring CJ0K the starter when he's hot garbage combined with the 2013 Mendenhall crap is more then enough evidence for me.

Evidence of stubbornly not playing the best pure runner or evidence of intelligently playing the best player to help keep the most important player (I.e. Palmer) safe?There is a huge difference between the two.

I am quite certain that if Arians thought D.Johnson was as competent as CJ in ALL aspects of the game then he would be the lead back.

 

[Chaka]

I will never understand why otherwise intelligent people consistently fail to recognize that real football is about far more than fantasy statistics.

 

[Milkman]

We still don't know if DJ can pass block because Arians decided to sit him the 4th week of the preseason and give CJ0K a long look. So the coach now has his best weapon sitting on the sideline when he could be breaking out the next 3 weeks and taking this starting job from the 185 pound 3rd down back they are currently using as a workhorse.

On the surface that screams Arians had no intention of using DJ this year. Why would he not get a long look at DJ during the 4th week of the preseason? Hell, have him pass block the entire game.

 

[HW_53]

I don't think it should be called stubborn if Arians is worried that DJ won't be able to protect the franchise. They have seen what happens without Palmer in the lineup and I don't think any of you would start DJ if you had someone that you trusted to make the right reads on blitzes more.

This is a good point, and although DJ missed some camp, CJ hasn't had much time to acclimate to the offense either, and, if one has ever heard him speak - he doesn't strike me as a quick learner.. Hopefully, DJ will get 10-12 touches and carve out a role for himself soon.. FWIW, I drafted Ellington and DJ..