MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm not assuming anything. I'm trying to assess the situation from the Browns pov. Poorly, apparently.
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RB D'Ernest Johnson, JAX (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Truebluey
- Start date
rschroeder1 said:
I understand the cap and Hunt's a value at this price. For the sake of Johnson's potential value it would not matter how Hunt leaves but I'll continue to say as long as he does not do something off the field he has zero chance of being cut.
As for traded I'd love to see it myself both as someone who owns Hunt and Johnson in several dynasty leagues. That I won't say is impossible, and again I'd love to see it, but I don't think it will happen for a variety of factors.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
PFF CLE Browns@PFF_Browns
Highest-graded #Browns in Week 10 (min. 25 snaps):
Third highest PFF grade. He grades like he plays, very-good.
He is patient, sets up blocks, makes incredible cuts with strong leg-burst, then out of the cut his shoulders vertically square and he goes North/South and if he anticipates contact he lowers his center of gravity getting his pads-low with shoulders over his thighs bouncing off defenders as he squeezes out as much YAC as possible.
How he runs is a 'perfect-fit' for the Browns wide-zone blocking scheme.
Per Hunt. When he went down he was the 7th ranked fantasy RB and Chubb ranked 11th AT THAT TIME. Hunt was the Browns leading receiver with 20 receptions for 161 yards and had 69 attempts for 361 rushing yards and lead the team with 5 rushing TDs.
AT THAT TIME when Hunt went down Chubb lead the team with 90 rushing attempts for 523 rushing yards (162 more than Hunt) but only had 6 receptions for 35 receiving yards and had 3 rushing TDs. Neither had a receiving TD at that time.
How does D'Ernest stack up? His stats over the course of the entire season.
D'Ernest has lead RB ability as does Hunt and obviously Chubb. He's been extremely valuable to the Browns this year who just inked both starting guards to extensions making them the number-1 and number-3 HIGHEST PAID GUARDS in the NFL.
Let me repeat that once again.
The Browns JUST SIGNED their starting offensive guards, one of the LOWEST PAID positions in the league to extensions to have two of the three highest paid guards in the entire league. THAT IS HOW MUCH THEY VALUE run-blocking. Oh and they made sure to extend both of their starting RBs this year BEFORE Hunts injury and before D'Ernest blew up.
Judging from recent signings and how much they value the running game, I think they extend D'Ernest but that is just my humble-O based on what has transpired and what I've seen of D'Ernest.
The guy is great IMHO. I really like him and even if its not a popular fantasy position I want the Browns to extend him.
Highest-graded #Browns in Week 10 (min. 25 snaps):
- Myles Garrett, EDGE- 81.2
- Joel Bitonio, OG- 80.0
- D’Ernest Johnson, RB- 72.3
- Austin Hooper, TE- 66.8
- Jordan Elliott, DI- 63.5
Third highest PFF grade. He grades like he plays, very-good.
He is patient, sets up blocks, makes incredible cuts with strong leg-burst, then out of the cut his shoulders vertically square and he goes North/South and if he anticipates contact he lowers his center of gravity getting his pads-low with shoulders over his thighs bouncing off defenders as he squeezes out as much YAC as possible.
How he runs is a 'perfect-fit' for the Browns wide-zone blocking scheme.
Per Hunt. When he went down he was the 7th ranked fantasy RB and Chubb ranked 11th AT THAT TIME. Hunt was the Browns leading receiver with 20 receptions for 161 yards and had 69 attempts for 361 rushing yards and lead the team with 5 rushing TDs.
AT THAT TIME when Hunt went down Chubb lead the team with 90 rushing attempts for 523 rushing yards (162 more than Hunt) but only had 6 receptions for 35 receiving yards and had 3 rushing TDs. Neither had a receiving TD at that time.
How does D'Ernest stack up? His stats over the course of the entire season.
- 56 rushing attempts
- 294 rushing yards
- 2 rushing TDs
- 11 receptions
- 94 receiving yards
D'Ernest has lead RB ability as does Hunt and obviously Chubb. He's been extremely valuable to the Browns this year who just inked both starting guards to extensions making them the number-1 and number-3 HIGHEST PAID GUARDS in the NFL.
Let me repeat that once again.
The Browns JUST SIGNED their starting offensive guards, one of the LOWEST PAID positions in the league to extensions to have two of the three highest paid guards in the entire league. THAT IS HOW MUCH THEY VALUE run-blocking. Oh and they made sure to extend both of their starting RBs this year BEFORE Hunts injury and before D'Ernest blew up.
Judging from recent signings and how much they value the running game, I think they extend D'Ernest but that is just my humble-O based on what has transpired and what I've seen of D'Ernest.
The guy is great IMHO. I really like him and even if its not a popular fantasy position I want the Browns to extend him.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
With the Browns confirming Kareem Hunt is out for Week 11 vs. Detroit, what are Johnson owners doing with this news? Personally, I am conflicted.
Johnson hasn't had a sustainable share of touches yet as the RB2. If there's any game it could happen, it's this week. However, he feels too risky still to use as a flex in deeper leagues.
Johnson hasn't had a sustainable share of touches yet as the RB2. If there's any game it could happen, it's this week. However, he feels too risky still to use as a flex in deeper leagues.
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Drake Hater
Footballguy
I'm holding until more info comes out on Chubb to confirm whether he's available this week.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Stat Correction
Footballguy
I don't have any doubt that Chubb will play this week. As a vaccinated player, his road back to the starting lineup after missing last week is pretty simple.
As for D'Ernest, I too am conflicted about whether to roll him out this week. The Lions will definitely give up a ton of yardage to the run, and with Hunt still out, I can see a clear path for D'Ernest to get at least 8-10 touches.....and more if the game script is right.
This is a MUST WIN for the Browns to stay in the hunt, so if the Lions play them close like they did the Steelers last week, I can see the Browns giving their best RB the lion's share of touches....and Chubb is their lion
Regardless, I currently have D'Ernest in my flex position in a 12-team must-win.....but, in full disclosure, my options aren't exactly stellar (Tony Pollard and Jeff Wilson).
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Seth Walder@SethWalder
Rush Yards Over Expectation leaders among running backs for the 2021 season, per @NextGenStats
Rush Yards Over Expectation leaders among running backs for the 2021 season, per @NextGenStats
- Jonathan Taylor +322
- Nick Chubb +204
- D'Ernest Johnson +109
- Javonte Williams +100
- Chase Edmonds +84
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
with Chubb at 2 having missed a couple of games, this reads like Johnson was the beneficiary of having Chubb and Hunt out a few weeks so far and Chubb would be head and shoulders ahead of everyone else if not for those games.
So the question is whether Johnson is a must-handcuff once Hunt is healthy? Pretty clear with Chubb & Hunt both healthy his usage will be next to nothing based on this past weekend patterns with Chubb/Johnson. But what about Hunt/Johnson combo if/when Chubb goes down again?
rschroeder1
Footballguy
I guess this doesn't change all that much for Johnson's future, unless Cleveland plans to cut Hunt, which seems unlikely at this point. Hopefully he'll still get a shot with another team.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I think he gets signed as part of a committee. Hes shown enough to get some carries.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yeah. Almost makes me wish they keep him and trade Hunt for something of value.....if they could. Who knows.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
I believe by the rules, there is no draft compensation with this tender, since Johnson was undrafted. From Wikipedia:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They just resigned Hunt to an extension last year, no? I thought it was 2 years. I don’t see any reason they’d cut him.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
He could be cut this offseason with no dead cap hit. Not saying they would do that, but it could be an area of cost savings.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/kareem-hunt-21828/
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He’s also really good, especially as a receiver.
I like Johnson (hehe) but he’s a better replacement for Chubb than he is for Hunt.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
Yeah, not saying it's likely, but my goal for keeper/dynasty is to position myself for possibilities that could have a big payoff. So contracts are a big part of that.
You say especially as a receiver and he led the NFL in rushing. That in a nutshell is why Hunt is a stud. The idea they would cut him is ludicrous especially since they could trade him if they wanted to, which they don't as much as I wish they would-not that he needs it to happen to have good fantasy value which for some reason seems to be the mindset right now with a lot of people.
As for D'Ernest he's going to need someone to really want him or he's just a third banana and only leagues I've view him as worth a roster spot are larger roster BB leagues especially if you have Hunt or Chubb. As a Brown he's not worth a 20 man roster spot IMO.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
rschroeder1
Footballguy
I think this conversation is missing the mark on Hunt v. Johnson.
No one is claiming Hunt isn't good, or even great. But if that is true, he's going to cost a lot after '22. The team could sign Johnson to a team friendly deal now. Otherwise they will have to address the position after '22. Cap management is a factor for fantasy long term consideration in my mind.
Yes, Hunt could be traded, but given how RBs are valued, it's doubtful the Browns would get the return they want, if it is true Hunt is a stud.
No one is claiming Hunt isn't good, or even great. But if that is true, he's going to cost a lot after '22. The team could sign Johnson to a team friendly deal now. Otherwise they will have to address the position after '22. Cap management is a factor for fantasy long term consideration in my mind.
Yes, Hunt could be traded, but given how RBs are valued, it's doubtful the Browns would get the return they want, if it is true Hunt is a stud.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
They didn’t even use Johnson last season.
In 2021, he was very good as a runner. He could be a 1b on a team like Miami with only Ahmed signed thus far, and Mostert almost 31 and possibly coming back. Maybe his receiving skills aren't that good. The list of decent cheapish veteran FA RBs includes: Foreman, Singletary, Montgomery, Hunt, Harris, Perrine.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
D'Ernest Johnson has been in the league for four years.
The NFL minimum salary for four years is: $1.01 million.
D'Ernest Johnson earned $1.065 million with a $151,500 signing bonus.
The first 2 years he only had 37 rushes for 187 yards with 0 TDs and 1 fumble.
In his third year he had 100 rushes for 534 yards with 3 TDs and 0 fumbles.
He earned the signing bonus and got paid barely over the NFL minimum for a four-year veteran.
If they extended him, they'd have to pay him more wisely drafted a rookie last year in RB in Jerome Ford who doubles as a kick returner.
I really like D'Ernest and wish him the best. He really is a good guy from all reports, and I think he's a solid runner, but the Browns have to wisely manage the cap, so it isn't a surprise they didn't resign him.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yep. And reportedly in addition to ST play, they liked Ford better as a compliment to Chubb, presumably with the anticipation that Hunt would be on to greener pastures in 2023.
Maybe they bring Johnson back when all the dust settles. He knows the offense and he’s Chubb insurance.
I don’t see a huge market competing for Johnson.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
That seems like another lifetime ago
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Johnson doesn’t worry me much as an ETN shareholder. About on par with Hasty. Probably not a lot of value outside of as a handcuff.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
@Hot Sauce Guy I'd mostly agree except that in terms of range of outcomes, he's seemingly landed in a decent spot to be able to be a guy that might have some value in a lineup. There will be other RB depth charts much harder to climb than that. I'd put him above Hasty myself at this point and Conner hasn't shown anything that I'm aware of.
Guys you can get for free that could put up 3-4 weeks of bankable situational usage have value. If they don't add another good RB, he's a round 12ish best ball guy.
Guys you can get for free that could put up 3-4 weeks of bankable situational usage have value. If they don't add another good RB, he's a round 12ish best ball guy.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Maybe in best ball, sure. He looked good a couple years ago playing in spot duty - IIRC he had 2 starts & averaged like 5+ YPC. I sold for a 3rd to the Hunt shareholder at the time.
IMO he’ll be a good COP/breather back.
Best ball, zero RB, sure - there’s a non-zero chance that ETN misses time, so of course anyone backing him up has value.
Redraft / dynasty I see him as more of a handcuff. I don’t play BB, so I’ll defer to you on that.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If you didn't know his backstory, here it is.
>>> Let It Fly Media: Slow Grind - The D'Ernest Johnson Story
D’Ernest Johnson grew up in the impoverished small town of Immokalee, Florida and attended the University of South Florida. Nothing ever came easy for the current Cleveland Browns running back. After begging his way into a tryout with the AAF’s Orlando Apollo’s, the journey to the NFL for D’Ernest had only just begun.
-----------------------------------------------------------
D'Ernest is one humble dude that everyone loves.
Wish him the best.
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zamboni
Footballguy
Great - as an Etienne owner, I have to deal with a very humble, well liked guy that his coaching staff is going to love. Already had to deal with that with Swift/Jamaal.
Can't D'Ernest just be a selfish jerk that his coaching staff wants to plant on the bench?
Boston
Footballguy
Come on Zamboni...this is exactly what you want them to bring in...he is a solid but nothing special RB who had 17 total rushing yards last year and will be 28 in May and is there on a 1 year deal...you should be really happy with this as they could have brought in a high-end rookie (I guess still possible) or a legit FA that was far more of a threat...if Etienne is losing touches to Johnson he was going to lose them regardless of who they brought in.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I view this signing as a reason to drop him.
zamboni
Footballguy
I know - was said somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Much happier with D'Ernest than even Kareem Hunt or a high-end rookie.
Boston
Footballguy
I don't own Etienne but this move actually makes me a little nervous that the door is open for a solid rookie RB.
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