RB Kenneth Walker III - SEA (4 Viewers)

[Dr. Octopus]

It's just hard to see if that translates to the NFL when it is vs mostly terrible team defenses and poor tacklers.

This is most college football teams outside of the few elites. Every RB coming into the league is taking a step up in competition.

Walker faced some terrible defenses in the B1G as well (Rutgers, Nebraska, Northwestern, Iowa, Illinois....etc.)

 

[The Finist]

It's just hard to see if that translates to the NFL when it is vs mostly terrible team defenses and poor tacklers.

This is most college football teams outside of the few elites. Every RB coming into the league is taking a step up in competition.

Walker faced some terrible defenses in the B1G as well (Rutgers, Nebraska, Northwestern, Iowa, Illinois....etc.)

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc. And it wasnt mostly east west spread system tape vs paper soft team defense and poor tacklers. But really that doesn't even matter anymore for Walker III.

Walker also has NFL tape now. It's not a big unknown with Walker and he made his adjustment.

 

[menobrown]

what are the flaws in his game or in terms of talent? not talking about the system/competition - does he make people miss? how is he with contact? can he block? receiving ability, does he have that dog in him, etc....?

Just my opinion but he's not twitchy, fast, has stiff hips, a little upright. Good contact balance, runs with power, not overly shifty. I would put him in the mold of James Conner, Tyler Allgeier type as a pure runner. When he got drafted Carroll said "he'll wear you out" and I think that's apt, he's going to run hard and physical but I don't see any special traits.

In the passing game I think he's solid . He has good hands and does a nice job of making himself available to the QB so he's a very capable receiver but he's not what I'd classify as a weapon. I did not scout his pass blocking much-not that hardcore, don't know anyone who did not consider it a strength. To me in the passing game it all looks a lot like what Fournette evolved into, again what James Conner was as well and for me my comp for him for months has been Conner. A guy who uses his big frame and FBI to pass block well, solid hands and knows how to put himself in proper position to offer his QB a safe outlet.

His skill set it truly a nice complement to Walker's when both are healthy. I don't see anything special about him but you don't need to be special to be a good fantasy RB. Even looking at that Conner comp I've been putting on him and it's fair to say Conner's been an above average fantasy contributor but health has been his biggest drawback.

I don't think their usage will look like this but to the eye the duo might look a lot like Pollard(Walker) and Elliot(Charb) looked last year. Whereas Elliot is the power runner, reliable pass catcher and superior blocker but the juice level between would be noticeable to a novice.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

The main issue for me, if you are a Walker owner especially, is that Charbs looks like the guy you give the ball to in the redzone, specifically at the goal line.

I like the James Conner comp. And in NFL terms it's a nice complimentary pairing. But one is going to cap the other in fantasy and it'll specifically be the touchdown opportunities where that negatively affects Walker, in my opinion of course.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

 

[FarFromHome]

Like most rookies, Walker had his moments of frustration, but overall just passed the eye test. Extremely talented with speed and elite change of direction quickness. Runs hard and has a chance to punch it in from anywhere on the field. This ain't the 80s where a season long run of 20 yards is okay. Today's NFL rbs need to have that take it to the house ability in the tool box. Charbs concerns me for sure, but I don't think he is gonna come in and take over. My biggest thing to watch is how much practice time he misses with this injury. Rookies can't just misses practices at this stage. Walker know the offense.

 

[The Finist]

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

exactly

 

[Payne]

Graziano's notes from Seahawks camp:

Assuming Walker and Charbonnet get healthy in time for the season, the sense I get is a) Walker would still be the starter and get the bulk of the work and b) Charbonnet would also have a role, perhaps in the two-minute or four-minute offense. People I spoke to here believe they complement each other well, and the team anticipates using them in tandem to some extent. But if Charbonnet has to miss extended time in camp, just the fact that he's a rookie could change the Seahawks' plan if they determine he hasn't had enough development time. Several people I talked to in Seattle mentioned how great an offseason Walker had, and they foresee improvement from him in 2023.

Latest buzz from NFL training camp: What we heard at Lions, Packers, Giants practices

Dan Graziano and Jeremy Fowler have everything you need to know from all 15 stops of their annual training camp trips.

www.espn.com

Yep.

 

[The Finist]

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

exactly

So you didn't have one?

 

[Payne]

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

exactly

So you didn't have one?

Octopus brought up he played against poor defenses and you countered with tougher matchups including 193 yards and 5 TD's against Michigan and now "we can move on".

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Like most rookies, Walker had his moments of frustration, but overall just passed the eye test. Extremely talented with speed and elite change of direction quickness. Runs hard and has a chance to punch it in from anywhere on the field. This ain't the 80s where a season long run of 20 yards is okay. Today's NFL rbs need to have that take it to the house ability in the tool box. Charbs concerns me for sure, but I don't think he is gonna come in and take over. My biggest thing to watch is how much practice time he misses with this injury. Rookies can't just misses practices at this stage. Walker know the offense.

Interesting post.

Not sure I agree with your generalized assessments though.

Let’s start with this one:

This ain't the 80s where a season long run of 20 yards is okay.

I’m reasonably sure an NFL team would be perfectly ok with a RB who’s season long is 20 yards, provided they’re consistently moving the chains on 3rd & 1, or punching it in at the stripe.

Not every RB is a home-run hitter. The Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with a lead RB whose season long was 31 yards. He broke exactly zero long runs to the house the entire season. He lacks that sort of long speed.

Charbs concerns me for sure, but I don't think he is gonna come in and take over

Again, no one here is suggesting this will happen. It’s a weird straw man that keeps getting propped up in this topic.

Charbs has strengths that Walker seems to be lacking. Those aforementioned consistent short yardage gains, for a major example.

Sure, it’s one season, but the stats are what they are. Might it be coincidence that Seattle spent a 2nd on a RB who was known to possess those skills? I guess that’s possible, but it seems unlikely.

Might Walker improve in consistency and cut down on the negative runs? Absolutely possible. But it sure seems like the Seahawks drafted a contingency plan if he can’t.

Suggesting a committee is not the same as saying Charbonnet is going to take over or relegate Walker to the bench. Most NFL teams use a committee these days. Walker still has great “take it to the house” long speed. He will still be valuable for FF. Just maybe not as valuable as expected prior to the Charbonnet pick. Of course that depends on the split, which so far no one knows because games haven’t been played & they’re both dinged up. It is what it is

But no one is remotely suggesting that Walker won’t be out there getting touches. That’s a false narrative that needs to be put to bed. It’s unproductive.

My biggest thing to watch is how much practice time he misses with this injury. Rookies can't just misses practices at this stage. Walker know the offense.

I don’t totally disagree with this - it’s not good to miss time as a rookie. That said, RB is the easiest position to transition from college to the pros. And Charbonnet is likely still working while his shoulder is hurt. He’s at camp, doing walkthroughs, working with coaches on the side, and in fact, he is learning the offense. It’s not the critical blow to his value that you’re making it out to be.

If healthy for game 1, I’d be willing to bet he’ll be active, and will get touches.

 

[The Finist]

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

exactly

So you didn't have one?

Octopus brought up he played against poor defenses and you countered with tougher matchups including 193 yards and 5 TD's against Michigan and now "we can move on".

Ha very true. Also said we have NFL tape with Walker as a starter. And it is strong for a rookie.

And to add on. Success rate of finding a starting RB in rd 2 is about 25%. I don't see Charbs as one unless Walker gets injured. I'll take the 75% chance he isn't that caliber. I'm sure he will contribute but I don't see it limiting Walker III. And the adjustment coming out of Chip's system vs pac10 defenses is bigger than what Walker dealt with. He had so much space at ucla

 

[rockaction]

The Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with a lead RB whose season long was 31 yards. He broke exactly zero long runs to the house the entire season. He lacks that sort of long speed.

Allow me to nitpick. He has long speed. The forty is long speed for RBs, and he ran a 4.37. Pacheco's problem is understanding his blockers and contact balance. (I'm not going to use the dreaded word "vision" because nobody can measure that, IMO. As soon as I hear "vision," I start tuning the "experts" out.)

 

[rockaction]

I’m reasonably sure an NFL team would be perfectly ok with a RB who’s season long is 20 yards, provided they’re consistently moving the chains on 3rd & 1, or punching it in at the stripe.

I also don't agree with this. I think it's even more important now because success rate being what it is, when you get second level, you need to be able to rush for more than twenty yards. Teams are looking to pop big plays when the scheme hits. You can't have a slow dullard ruining great blocking schemes because he has no speed.

Anyway, not picking on you this morning. I just disagree with those points.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

Walker had tape vs Mich, Ohio State, Penn st, Miami etc

how many future pros were on those teams? Miami allowed 28 points per game.

You're kind of missing the point, but we can move on. We can present stats and "scenarios" to show whatever we want really.

What point?

exactly

So you didn't have one?

Octopus brought up he played against poor defenses and you countered with tougher matchups including 193 yards and 5 TD's against Michigan and now "we can move on".

Please don’t bring up my name again. I have you on ignore for **** like this. You’re not capable of real conversations and like the “gotcha” approach but you’re not smart enough to see context and you’re not “getting” anyone.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with a lead RB whose season long was 31 yards. He broke exactly zero long runs to the house the entire season. He lacks that sort of long speed.

Allow me to nitpick. He has long speed. The forty is long speed for RBs, and he ran a 4.37. Pacheco's problem is understanding his blockers and contact balance. (I'm not going to use the dreaded word "vision" because nobody can measure that, IMO. As soon as I hear "vision," I start tuning the "experts" out.)

Ok, fair - being capable of it and not executing it are definitely different things.

That said, I watched Pacheco get taken down from behind multiple times on such opportunities. Maybe his underwear Olympics performance doesn’t translate to on-field play.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I’m reasonably sure an NFL team would be perfectly ok with a RB who’s season long is 20 yards, provided they’re consistently moving the chains on 3rd & 1, or punching it in at the stripe.

I also don't agree with this. I think it's even more important now because success rate being what it is, when you get second level, you need to be able to rush for more than twenty yards. Teams are looking to pop big plays when the scheme hits. You can't have a slow dullard ruining great blocking schemes because he has no speed.

Anyway, not picking on you this morning. I just disagree with those points.

You’re allowed to.

I’ll disagree with your disagreement though, seeing as teams RB rooms have evolved to RBBCs, with RBs having specialized roles. They ain’t all sprinters, and they ain’t all tanks.

I’m not saying teams love slow plodders. That isn’t something I posted.

I said I believe teams would be fine with a dude who lacks long speed if they consistently move the chains. Mixon is a guy like that these days. He’s still the Bengals RB1 last I checked.

I welcome your disagreement to my disagreement with your pending post disagreeing with me.



(lol - love ya buddy )

 

[rockaction]

I welcome your disagreement to my disagreement with your pending post disagreeing with me.

I don't have much of a rebuttal, believe it or not. I think we just might be thinking differently, which is allowed (or so I hear this vicious rumor). I only offered up that disclaimer because it's early morning and I was picking apart your post in disagreement. Didn't want to seem like I was jumping down your throat this morning.

(lol - love ya buddy )

Back atcha, bud. Peace. Keep on in the free world.

 

[Da Franchise]

what are the flaws in his game or in terms of talent? not talking about the system/competition - does he make people miss? how is he with contact? can he block? receiving ability, does he have that dog in him, etc....?

Just my opinion but he's not twitchy, fast, has stiff hips, a little upright. Good contact balance, runs with power, not overly shifty. I would put him in the mold of James Conner, Tyler Allgeier type as a pure runner. When he got drafted Carroll said "he'll wear you out" and I think that's apt, he's going to run hard and physical but I don't see any special traits.

In the passing game I think he's solid . He has good hands and does a nice job of making himself available to the QB so he's a very capable receiver but he's not what I'd classify as a weapon. I did not scout his pass blocking much-not that hardcore, don't know anyone who did not consider it a strength. To me in the passing game it all looks a lot like what Fournette evolved into, again what James Conner was as well and for me my comp for him for months has been Conner. A guy who uses his big frame and FBI to pass block well, solid hands and knows how to put himself in proper position to offer his QB a safe outlet.

His skill set it truly a nice complement to Walker's when both are healthy. I don't see anything special about him but you don't need to be special to be a good fantasy RB. Even looking at that Conner comp I've been putting on him and it's fair to say Conner's been an above average fantasy contributor but health has been his biggest drawback.

I don't think their usage will look like this but to the eye the duo might look a lot like Pollard(Walker) and Elliot(Charb) looked last year. Whereas Elliot is the power runner, reliable pass catcher and superior blocker but the juice level between would be noticeable to a novice.

I agree with pretty much all of this. The high end comp I saw tossed around was Arian Foster, but saw Conner mentioned also and seems to fit better. I do think he’s a better version of whatever Elliott was last year.

I tend to think it’s just going to be a muddled backfield whenever they’re healthy and both will have value. If Charb is the passing back and getting goal line carries, he’s the one I want. At least at current prices anyway. In my (never ending) startup, Walker went 5.02 and I was surprised to take Charb at 11.02. I’m not much of a fan of either but that’s a huge delta.

 

[Da Franchise]

The take I keep seeing with Walker that I really disagree with is this whole “for a rookie” thing, expecting some leap in year 2. Generally backs can improve in blocking/passing game, but as runners they pretty much are what they are. If anything they get less productive on the ground, not more.

Also the rather dim observation that ZC has no NFL stats.

 

[FarFromHome]

In the end, this is basically math. Seahawks ran the ball 425 and 413 times the past two years. If Charbs has the trust of the staff and understands the scheme how many carries are we thinking? My gut says no matter how this unfolds Walker is locked in for 200 plus carries as his floor. I can't see Charbs at 200. 150? Best case scenario? My on record guess is: Walker 250 carries. All other Seahawks rbs at 175 carries. Charbs leads rbs with reception. The problem with that is if you look at Carroll offenses they just don't throw to rbs. I think Carson and his 37 is the high the past 5 years or so. Can we expect a rookie RB to have more then that? I can't. Charbs leads the rbs in catches with 30. Goal line is the bread and butter and early season reports on who gets that gig will be huge for me. Hopefully Walker can force a split at that roll. All my opinion of course.

 

[rockaction]

The problem with that is if you look at Carroll offenses they just don't throw to rbs

Was that Russ, though, or Pete? Gotta imagine that Russ had something to do with that.

 

[FarFromHome]

Great point. For reference, pre Wilson, Forsett had years of 41, 33 and 23 and Marshawn had a bit. The math says they threw to the rb position a tad more. Last year, without Wilson, Walker led rbs with 27. I think the expectation of a RB with more then 40ish receptions isn't plausible. Imo

 

[FarFromHome]

The problem with that is if you look at Carroll offenses they just don't throw to rbs

Was that Russ, though, or Pete? Gotta imagine that Russ had something to do with that.

Figured out how to use quotes. Big day for me

 

[barackdhouse]

The problem with that is if you look at Carroll offenses they just don't throw to rbs

Was that Russ, though, or Pete? Gotta imagine that Russ had something to do with that.

that's what I was wondering, too, but I haven't looked at Geno's numbers in this regard...

 

[Payne]

The take I keep seeing with Walker that I really disagree with is this whole “for a rookie” thing, expecting some leap in year 2. Generally backs can improve in blocking/passing game, but as runners they pretty much are what they are. If anything they get less productive on the ground, not more.

Also the rather dim observation that ZC has no NFL stats.

I don't think it's fair for posters to come on here and state how poorly Walker did last year assuming Charbs would have done better.
Until he shows it, nobody can say that.

 

[menobrown]

The problem with that is if you look at Carroll offenses they just don't throw to rbs

Was that Russ, though, or Pete? Gotta imagine that Russ had something to do with that.

that's what I was wondering, too, but I haven't looked at Geno's numbers in this regard...

I don't think we have enough data to make conclusions but the early returns are not great. Seattle did throw to RB's more last year, almost exactly one attempt per game more. They moved from 32nd in the league in Russ's last year to tied for 25th last year.

I'd be inclined to think Russ, and for that matter most highly mobile QB's, were a major contributor to this issue but then Denver went out and placed 8th in RB targets which starts to poke a hole in that theory.

It's feasible for the counter to that to be that Russ was a bit chunky and would not run like he used to either last year.

Again not enough data but I interprest what we do have as suggestive that Russ will throw to the RB's if it's in the design of the offense.

I'll add it's my opinion that McIntosh is their most talented RB in the receiving game and Dallas is their best pass blocker.

 

[Da Franchise]

The take I keep seeing with Walker that I really disagree with is this whole “for a rookie” thing, expecting some leap in year 2. Generally backs can improve in blocking/passing game, but as runners they pretty much are what they are. If anything they get less productive on the ground, not more.

Also the rather dim observation that ZC has no NFL stats.

I don't think it's fair for posters to come on here and state how poorly Walker did last year assuming Charbs would have done better.
Until he shows it, nobody can say that.

Correct, that’s how it tends to work with rookies.

 

[travdogg]

The problem with that is if you look at Carroll offenses they just don't throw to rbs

Was that Russ, though, or Pete? Gotta imagine that Russ had something to do with that.

Its a little of both, and probably some of personnel as well. Seattle was still among the bottom of league in RB receiving production last season, but was 3rd in the league in TE production (behind only KC, Baltimore) I would bet on RBs continuing to be mostly an afterthought in this passing game, especially with the addition of JSN, who will likely take a good deal of the TE production as a slot option. He'll certainly be more productive in the #3 role than anyone has been in Seattle in years.

As for how that pertains to Walker. I think 20-ish catches is probably reasonable. Its possible Charbonnet takes some of a 3rd down role. McIntosh has a skillset as a pass catcher but is painfully slow. Ultimately, I don't think it matters who gets passing downs in Seattle, its not a big enough pie for anyone to really earn much value unless it was just adding to Walker's rushing value, which is not the most likely outcome.

I've got Walker as RB16. He's like the reverse of Jahmyr Gibbs for me, where since best ball drafts started in June, he's gone from an avoid, to a guy I kinda like at ADP. Walker in round 5 feels like a very worthy pick to me.

ETA: Walker is kind of Wal-Mart brand Etienne in my opinion.

 

[FarFromHome]

On a side note WR Keith Bagney has reportedly been the best “player on the field” at Seahawks training camp reminding us how absolutely silly off-season narratives can be. Lower Charbs value with this news. Ha ha

 

[FBG Moderator]

Take care.

Both of you please drop it and move on and keep this 100% on the NFL.

 

[Lansdowne]

After following the passionate discussions in this thread and the Charbonnet thread the last few weeks I found this amusing:

Let me explain. Here’s some research on two players. A typical “player write-up,” if you will. Read them and then let me know which player you would rather draft this year in fantasy.

“RB A” is the starting RB on a very run heavy team. In the games in which he played significant snaps last year, he averaged over 100 yards from scrimmage per game. He averaged almost a touchdown scored per game. He has a high pedigree, as he was one of the first three running backs drafted the year he came out. A true workhorse, he averaged 20.5 touches a game as the starter last year, playing on over 70% of the snaps. But it’s not just his ability to grind it out that makes him a fantasy superstar, it’s his home run ability. Three different runs of over 60 yards last season (two of which went for touchdowns) shows how he is a threat to break one every time he touches the ball. He showed that scoring prowess with a streak last year of five straight games scoring a touchdown (seven touchdowns total in that stretch). Last year, as a starter, this running back was top five in the NFL in rushing yards and touchdowns and should be a cornerstone of your fantasy team this year.

Meanwhile, the outlook for “RB B” is fairly bleak. Injury issues, of course, are always a concern with this RB, as just last year he dealt with hernia, shoulder and ankle problems in three different spots, while missing entirely or playing very limited snaps in eight different games. But even when he played, it wasn’t all that great. Last year “RB B” had the second lowest success rate among RBs with 100+ carries, played on less than 30% of third downs and had the third most tackles for loss among all RBs. This all makes sense considering his offensive line is a bottom three unit in the NFL per FootballOutsiders. But at least he’s a plus in the passing game right? Nope. He’s an absolute nothing in the passing game. His 0.67 yards per route run was outside the top 50 at the position and he averaged just 1.8 receptions per game last year. As a result, he is basically a very touchdown dependent first- and second-down back (when he actually plays), ranking as RB 33 in games in which he doesn’t score. Before you consider if you want him on your fantasy team, maybe consider his real life NFL team doesn’t, after they just went out and spent a high draft pick on a very talented rookie RB. Someone will have to draft this guy this year, just don’t make it you.

Okay.

So, which running back do you want this year?

Understand that every single thing I wrote about each player above is 100% true. Heavily researched, verified and completely accurate.

Which Running Back do you want?

You’ve got 60 seconds in the draft room. Clock is ticking down. Gotta make a call and make it quick.

You’ve done the research, including reading about 500 stat-filled words from me on these two RBs. You’re fully informed. So come on now. It should be obvious, right?

You know which RB you want. One is so much clearly better than the other. Come on make the call. It’s super easy. Grab the obvious RB and move on.

Oh, but before you click “Draft” you should probably know one other fact.

Both players are Kenneth Walker.

source:

Matthew Berry's 100 Facts You Need to Know Before You Draft

Matthew Berry releases his 100 Facts You Need To Know Before You Draft, but what you do with them, is up to you.

www.nbcsports.com

Haha I like when Berry writes those up. He did something like that last year too IIRC, demonstrating how stats can make whatever case you wish to make.

 

[rockaction]

Haha I like when Berry writes those up. He did something like that last year too IIRC, demonstrating how stats can make whatever case you wish to make.

Anyone with certitude about this is where the red flags go up. That's my position.

 

[Gold Fox]

After following the passionate discussions in this thread and the Charbonnet thread the last few weeks I found this amusing:

Let me explain. Here’s some research on two players. A typical “player write-up,” if you will. Read them and then let me know which player you would rather draft this year in fantasy.

“RB A” is the starting RB on a very run heavy team. In the games in which he played significant snaps last year, he averaged over 100 yards from scrimmage per game. He averaged almost a touchdown scored per game. He has a high pedigree, as he was one of the first three running backs drafted the year he came out. A true workhorse, he averaged 20.5 touches a game as the starter last year, playing on over 70% of the snaps. But it’s not just his ability to grind it out that makes him a fantasy superstar, it’s his home run ability. Three different runs of over 60 yards last season (two of which went for touchdowns) shows how he is a threat to break one every time he touches the ball. He showed that scoring prowess with a streak last year of five straight games scoring a touchdown (seven touchdowns total in that stretch). Last year, as a starter, this running back was top five in the NFL in rushing yards and touchdowns and should be a cornerstone of your fantasy team this year.

Meanwhile, the outlook for “RB B” is fairly bleak. Injury issues, of course, are always a concern with this RB, as just last year he dealt with hernia, shoulder and ankle problems in three different spots, while missing entirely or playing very limited snaps in eight different games. But even when he played, it wasn’t all that great. Last year “RB B” had the second lowest success rate among RBs with 100+ carries, played on less than 30% of third downs and had the third most tackles for loss among all RBs. This all makes sense considering his offensive line is a bottom three unit in the NFL per FootballOutsiders. But at least he’s a plus in the passing game right? Nope. He’s an absolute nothing in the passing game. His 0.67 yards per route run was outside the top 50 at the position and he averaged just 1.8 receptions per game last year. As a result, he is basically a very touchdown dependent first- and second-down back (when he actually plays), ranking as RB 33 in games in which he doesn’t score. Before you consider if you want him on your fantasy team, maybe consider his real life NFL team doesn’t, after they just went out and spent a high draft pick on a very talented rookie RB. Someone will have to draft this guy this year, just don’t make it you.

Okay.

So, which running back do you want this year?

Understand that every single thing I wrote about each player above is 100% true. Heavily researched, verified and completely accurate.

Which Running Back do you want?

You’ve got 60 seconds in the draft room. Clock is ticking down. Gotta make a call and make it quick.

You’ve done the research, including reading about 500 stat-filled words from me on these two RBs. You’re fully informed. So come on now. It should be obvious, right?

You know which RB you want. One is so much clearly better than the other. Come on make the call. It’s super easy. Grab the obvious RB and move on.

Oh, but before you click “Draft” you should probably know one other fact.

Both players are Kenneth Walker.

source:

Matthew Berry's 100 Facts You Need to Know Before You Draft

Matthew Berry releases his 100 Facts You Need To Know Before You Draft, but what you do with them, is up to you.

www.nbcsports.com

Haha I like when Berry writes those up. He did something like that last year too IIRC, demonstrating how stats can make whatever case you wish to make.

After following the passionate discussions in this thread and the Charbonnet thread the last few weeks I found this amusing:

Let me explain. Here’s some research on two players. A typical “player write-up,” if you will. Read them and then let me know which player you would rather draft this year in fantasy.

“RB A” is the starting RB on a very run heavy team. In the games in which he played significant snaps last year, he averaged over 100 yards from scrimmage per game. He averaged almost a touchdown scored per game. He has a high pedigree, as he was one of the first three running backs drafted the year he came out. A true workhorse, he averaged 20.5 touches a game as the starter last year, playing on over 70% of the snaps. But it’s not just his ability to grind it out that makes him a fantasy superstar, it’s his home run ability. Three different runs of over 60 yards last season (two of which went for touchdowns) shows how he is a threat to break one every time he touches the ball. He showed that scoring prowess with a streak last year of five straight games scoring a touchdown (seven touchdowns total in that stretch). Last year, as a starter, this running back was top five in the NFL in rushing yards and touchdowns and should be a cornerstone of your fantasy team this year.

Meanwhile, the outlook for “RB B” is fairly bleak. Injury issues, of course, are always a concern with this RB, as just last year he dealt with hernia, shoulder and ankle problems in three different spots, while missing entirely or playing very limited snaps in eight different games. But even when he played, it wasn’t all that great. Last year “RB B” had the second lowest success rate among RBs with 100+ carries, played on less than 30% of third downs and had the third most tackles for loss among all RBs. This all makes sense considering his offensive line is a bottom three unit in the NFL per FootballOutsiders. But at least he’s a plus in the passing game right? Nope. He’s an absolute nothing in the passing game. His 0.67 yards per route run was outside the top 50 at the position and he averaged just 1.8 receptions per game last year. As a result, he is basically a very touchdown dependent first- and second-down back (when he actually plays), ranking as RB 33 in games in which he doesn’t score. Before you consider if you want him on your fantasy team, maybe consider his real life NFL team doesn’t, after they just went out and spent a high draft pick on a very talented rookie RB. Someone will have to draft this guy this year, just don’t make it you.

Okay.

So, which running back do you want this year?

Understand that every single thing I wrote about each player above is 100% true. Heavily researched, verified and completely accurate.

Which Running Back do you want?

You’ve got 60 seconds in the draft room. Clock is ticking down. Gotta make a call and make it quick.

You’ve done the research, including reading about 500 stat-filled words from me on these two RBs. You’re fully informed. So come on now. It should be obvious, right?

You know which RB you want. One is so much clearly better than the other. Come on make the call. It’s super easy. Grab the obvious RB and move on.

Oh, but before you click “Draft” you should probably know one other fact.

Both players are Kenneth Walker.

source:

Matthew Berry's 100 Facts You Need to Know Before You Draft

Matthew Berry releases his 100 Facts You Need To Know Before You Draft, but what you do with them, is up to you.

www.nbcsports.com

Haha I like when Berry writes those up. He did something like that last year too IIRC, demonstrating how stats can make whatever case you wish to make.

“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything.”

- economist Ronald Coase

 

[rockaction]

“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything.”

- economist Ronald Coase

Never thought I'd see Ronald Coase in the SP. We didn't even see him in the PSF.

 

[The Finist]

After following the passionate discussions in this thread and the Charbonnet thread the last few weeks I found this amusing:

Let me explain. Here’s some research on two players. A typical “player write-up,” if you will. Read them and then let me know which player you would rather draft this year in fantasy.

“RB A” is the starting RB on a very run heavy team. In the games in which he played significant snaps last year, he averaged over 100 yards from scrimmage per game. He averaged almost a touchdown scored per game. He has a high pedigree, as he was one of the first three running backs drafted the year he came out. A true workhorse, he averaged 20.5 touches a game as the starter last year, playing on over 70% of the snaps. But it’s not just his ability to grind it out that makes him a fantasy superstar, it’s his home run ability. Three different runs of over 60 yards last season (two of which went for touchdowns) shows how he is a threat to break one every time he touches the ball. He showed that scoring prowess with a streak last year of five straight games scoring a touchdown (seven touchdowns total in that stretch). Last year, as a starter, this running back was top five in the NFL in rushing yards and touchdowns and should be a cornerstone of your fantasy team this year.

Meanwhile, the outlook for “RB B” is fairly bleak. Injury issues, of course, are always a concern with this RB, as just last year he dealt with hernia, shoulder and ankle problems in three different spots, while missing entirely or playing very limited snaps in eight different games. But even when he played, it wasn’t all that great. Last year “RB B” had the second lowest success rate among RBs with 100+ carries, played on less than 30% of third downs and had the third most tackles for loss among all RBs. This all makes sense considering his offensive line is a bottom three unit in the NFL per FootballOutsiders. But at least he’s a plus in the passing game right? Nope. He’s an absolute nothing in the passing game. His 0.67 yards per route run was outside the top 50 at the position and he averaged just 1.8 receptions per game last year. As a result, he is basically a very touchdown dependent first- and second-down back (when he actually plays), ranking as RB 33 in games in which he doesn’t score. Before you consider if you want him on your fantasy team, maybe consider his real life NFL team doesn’t, after they just went out and spent a high draft pick on a very talented rookie RB. Someone will have to draft this guy this year, just don’t make it you.

Okay.

So, which running back do you want this year?

Understand that every single thing I wrote about each player above is 100% true. Heavily researched, verified and completely accurate.

Which Running Back do you want?

You’ve got 60 seconds in the draft room. Clock is ticking down. Gotta make a call and make it quick.

You’ve done the research, including reading about 500 stat-filled words from me on these two RBs. You’re fully informed. So come on now. It should be obvious, right?

You know which RB you want. One is so much clearly better than the other. Come on make the call. It’s super easy. Grab the obvious RB and move on.

Oh, but before you click “Draft” you should probably know one other fact.

Both players are Kenneth Walker.

source:

Matthew Berry's 100 Facts You Need to Know Before You Draft

Matthew Berry releases his 100 Facts You Need To Know Before You Draft, but what you do with them, is up to you.

www.nbcsports.com

That's good. And it's crazy how well Walker did with such a broken bottom 3 NFL OL in front of him as a rookie.

 

[Da Franchise]

Berry is a dork and you can smell his schtick coming from a mile away.

This situation is probably of the most interesting puzzle of the offseason to me. Agree with @rockaction, having certitude on either of these two is probably incorrect.

 

[Blick]

Berry is a dork and you can smell his schtick coming from a mile away.

This situation is probably of the most interesting puzzle of the offseason to me. Agree with @rockaction, having certitude on either of these two is probably incorrect.

I completely disagree. Unless Charbs is injured or completely busts, Walker will not reach last year's numbers. The only debate, to me, is by how much less.

He had NO competition for touches.

From week 6 on, Walker was RB 9 in PPR. With even a 10% reduction in stats, he would have finished as RB 17, 20% drops him to RB 23 over that period.

 

[menobrown]

Berry is a dork and you can smell his schtick coming from a mile away.

This situation is probably of the most interesting puzzle of the offseason to me. Agree with @rockaction, having certitude on either of these two is probably incorrect.

I completely disagree. Unless Charbs is injured or completely busts, Walker will not reach last year's numbers. The only debate, to me, is by how much less.

He had NO competition for touches.

From week 6 on, Walker was RB 9 in PPR. With even a 10% reduction in stats, he would have finished as RB 17, 20% drops him to RB 23 over that period.

For me it depends what you mean by last years numbers. If you are talking post-Penny injury I'd agree but if you are talking the totality of the season I like Walkers chances of getting to those numbers, which is basically 13.5 PPG points a game.

 

[Blick]

Berry is a dork and you can smell his schtick coming from a mile away.

This situation is probably of the most interesting puzzle of the offseason to me. Agree with @rockaction, having certitude on either of these two is probably incorrect.

I completely disagree. Unless Charbs is injured or completely busts, Walker will not reach last year's numbers. The only debate, to me, is by how much less.

He had NO competition for touches.

From week 6 on, Walker was RB 9 in PPR. With even a 10% reduction in stats, he would have finished as RB 17, 20% drops him to RB 23 over that period.

For me it depends what you mean by last years numbers. If you are talking post-Penny injury I'd agree but if you are talking the totality of the season I like Walkers chances of getting to those numbers, which is basically 13.5 PPG points a game.

The stats I quoted WERE post Penny. Week 6 on.

 

[menobrown]

Berry is a dork and you can smell his schtick coming from a mile away.

This situation is probably of the most interesting puzzle of the offseason to me. Agree with @rockaction, having certitude on either of these two is probably incorrect.

I completely disagree. Unless Charbs is injured or completely busts, Walker will not reach last year's numbers. The only debate, to me, is by how much less.

He had NO competition for touches.

From week 6 on, Walker was RB 9 in PPR. With even a 10% reduction in stats, he would have finished as RB 17, 20% drops him to RB 23 over that period.

For me it depends what you mean by last years numbers. If you are talking post-Penny injury I'd agree but if you are talking the totality of the season I like Walkers chances of getting to those numbers, which is basically 13.5 PPG points a game.

The stats I quoted WERE post Penny. Week 6 on.

Correct but you said also said last years numbers which for me includes weeks 1-5 and since he's not being drafted by really anyone I see on expectation he's going to be what he was post-Penny that leaves a lot open to interpretation on exactly what you meant by "last years numbers".

Not a big deal either way.

He's going as a mid RB2 in FFPC drafts, around that RB17 mark, I think that's a solid range give or take a spot or two.

 

[Blick]

I think we’re talking

Berry is a dork and you can smell his schtick coming from a mile away.

This situation is probably of the most interesting puzzle of the offseason to me. Agree with @rockaction, having certitude on either of these two is probably incorrect.

I completely disagree. Unless Charbs is injured or completely busts, Walker will not reach last year's numbers. The only debate, to me, is by how much less.

He had NO competition for touches.

From week 6 on, Walker was RB 9 in PPR. With even a 10% reduction in stats, he would have finished as RB 17, 20% drops him to RB 23 over that period.

For me it depends what you mean by last years numbers. If you are talking post-Penny injury I'd agree but if you are talking the totality of the season I like Walkers chances of getting to those numbers, which is basically 13.5 PPG points a game.

The stats I quoted WERE post Penny. Week 6 on.

Correct but you said also said last years numbers which for me includes weeks 1-5 and since he's not being drafted by really anyone I see on expectation he's going to be what he was post-Penny that leaves a lot open to interpretation on exactly what you meant by "last years numbers".

Not a big deal either way.

He's going as a mid RB2 in FFPC drafts, around that RB17 mark, I think that's a solid range give or take a spot or two.

I think we’re talking past each other, but agree in the end. I expect Walker to produce RB2 numbers.

To me, it’s one of the projections I’m most confident in. For whatever that matters.

 

[Faust]

Seahawks HC Pete Carroll said Kenneth Walker’s (shoulder) injury isn’t anything serious.

Walker’s injury isn’t serious, but he also hasn’t practiced since the first day of camp. Take that for what it is. Seattle’s RB1 is reportedly running at full speed and plans to begin working on making on-field cuts in the next couple of days. It’s possible the Seahawks are just using extreme caution with Walker, who was unlikely to see any significant work in the preseason, given his starter status. It doesn’t sound like he’s at risk of missing the start of the season, so we’ll assume the best until we hear otherwise. His absence from camp has suppressed his ADP as of late, presenting a nice buy-low opportunity for those interested in drafting him.

 

[LawFitz]

Kenny Walker is awesome when healthy. I have zero faith he will be healthy. Zach Charbs might be his clone, BTW. Same with Rashad Penny. Pete has his type. Ride 'em while hot, do not draft 'em early.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Seahawks HC Pete Carroll said Kenneth Walker’s (shoulder) injury isn’t anything serious.

Walker’s injury isn’t serious, but he also hasn’t practiced since the first day of camp. Take that for what it is. Seattle’s RB1 is reportedly running at full speed and plans to begin working on making on-field cuts in the next couple of days. It’s possible the Seahawks are just using extreme caution with Walker, who was unlikely to see any significant work in the preseason, given his starter status. It doesn’t sound like he’s at risk of missing the start of the season, so we’ll assume the best until we hear otherwise. His absence from camp has suppressed his ADP as of late, presenting a nice buy-low opportunity for those interested in drafting him.

Rotoworld is getting horrendous. Charbonet had the shoulder injury (and he’s back). Walker had a groin injury.

 

[The Finist]

Kenny Walker is awesome when healthy. I have zero faith he will be healthy. Zach Charbs might be his clone, BTW. Same with Rashad Penny. Pete has his type. Ride 'em while hot, do not draft 'em early.

As far as RBs go KWIII has been pretty reliable. Why zero faith? Or do you just have zero faith in all RBs?

 

[The Finist]

Kenny Walker is awesome when healthy. I have zero faith he will be healthy. Zach Charbs might be his clone, BTW. Same with Rashad Penny. Pete has his type. Ride 'em while hot, do not draft 'em early.

It's a tough call. If he was "just" dealing with post-rehab ACL it would still risky, but you could point to Jamaal Charles or ADP and be hopeful. But non-specific groin injury can turn out to be lingering (Jeff Okudah), and especially for a guy whose best move is sideways jump cut & lightening quick restart.

I do like Charbonnet's receiving ability, and he's priced right for now....he'll start climbing up ADP in redraft as we get closer to the end of preseason.

I must not be following along correctly. You would rather him be coming off ACL than a grade 1 groin issue in early camp?

 

[LawFitz]

Kenny Walker is awesome when healthy. I have zero faith he will be healthy. Zach Charbs might be his clone, BTW. Same with Rashad Penny. Pete has his type. Ride 'em while hot, do not draft 'em early.

As far as RBs go KWIII has been pretty reliable. Why zero faith? Or do you just have zero faith in all RBs?

Besides already being hurt right now...

"Injury issues, of course, are always a concern with this RB, as just last year he dealt with hernia, shoulder and ankle problems in three different spots, while missing entirely or playing very limited snaps in eight different games. But even when he played, it wasn’t all that great. Last year “RB B” had the second lowest success rate among RBs with 100+ carries, played on less than 30% of third downs and had the third most tackles for loss among all RBs. This all makes sense considering his offensive line is a bottom three unit in the NFL per FootballOutsiders. But at least he’s a plus in the passing game right? Nope. He’s an absolute nothing in the passing game. His 0.67 yards per route run was outside the top 50 at the position and he averaged just 1.8 receptions per game last year. As a result, he is basically a very touchdown dependent first- and second-down back (when he actually plays), ranking as RB 33 in games in which he doesn’t score. Before you consider if you want him on your fantasy team, maybe consider his real life NFL team doesn’t, after they just went out and spent a high draft pick on a very talented rookie RB."

 

[The Finist]

Kenny Walker is awesome when healthy. I have zero faith he will be healthy. Zach Charbs might be his clone, BTW. Same with Rashad Penny. Pete has his type. Ride 'em while hot, do not draft 'em early.

As far as RBs go KWIII has been pretty reliable. Why zero faith? Or do you just have zero faith in all RBs?

Besides already being hurt right now...

"Injury issues, of course, are always a concern with this RB, as just last year he dealt with hernia, shoulder and ankle problems in three different spots, while missing entirely or playing very limited snaps in eight different games. But even when he played, it wasn’t all that great. Last year “RB B” had the second lowest success rate among RBs with 100+ carries, played on less than 30% of third downs and had the third most tackles for loss among all RBs. This all makes sense considering his offensive line is a bottom three unit in the NFL per FootballOutsiders. But at least he’s a plus in the passing game right? Nope. He’s an absolute nothing in the passing game. His 0.67 yards per route run was outside the top 50 at the position and he averaged just 1.8 receptions per game last year. As a result, he is basically a very touchdown dependent first- and second-down back (when he actually plays), ranking as RB 33 in games in which he doesn’t score. Before you consider if you want him on your fantasy team, maybe consider his real life NFL team doesn’t, after they just went out and spent a high draft pick on a very talented rookie RB."

Lol do you know what you just posted? Want to post the other?