Biabreakable
Footballguy
Disagree with everything Frankman posted above. Especially the part about a bigger RB doing better in cold weather.
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RB Latavius Murray, BUF (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ShaHBucks
- Start date
xrayveggin
Footballguy
That's your most valid point. McKinnon turns big holes into explosive plays and TDs - Murray turns them into 8 yards. We've all seen Murray in Oakland for the last few seasons, and he was a replacement level ball carrier with outlier touchdown rate. Both have 41 carries this year, Murray for 97 yards, a long of 10, 2.4 ypc and 0 TD, and McKinnon for 190 yards, a long of 58, 4.6 ypc and 2 TD. There's no doubt about which one is a better back.
The Frankman
Footballguy
I would say that you need a grinder as the season progresses, and as a McKinnon owner last year you don't want him grinding all the time. Dude will wear down.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Nope.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Murray with 103/1 still in the 3rd, this is the best Murray has looked since he came back. Suprising speed he's displayed in this game, line opening up holes like in the past but he's turning them into big gainers now.
The Frankman
Footballguy
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Latavius Murray Leads Minnesota to Victory w/ 113 Yards & TD | Ravens vs. Vikings | Wk 7 Player HLs
I discussed the two big runs by Murray in the Vikings thread here.
He also had a couple other good runs in this game that did not lead to as big of gains, but where Murray shows good vision to identify the crease and get some positive gains.
Overall I am not particularly impressed with Murrays performance as I think the big gains have more to do with poor execution of the defense combined with very good blocking by the Vikings. I think a lot of RB in the league would be able to do as much as Murray did if presented with the same plays. Murray does have very good speed which is part of why defenders are taking poor angles in trying to stop him. Slower RB would not be able to gain as much ground as Murray does on these plays and defenders would have more time to adjust/recover from their bad angles against a slower RB.
I wish I could say plays like this are sustainable, but I don't really think that they are. The blocking by the Vikings is very encouraging though.
I discussed the two big runs by Murray in the Vikings thread here.
He also had a couple other good runs in this game that did not lead to as big of gains, but where Murray shows good vision to identify the crease and get some positive gains.
Overall I am not particularly impressed with Murrays performance as I think the big gains have more to do with poor execution of the defense combined with very good blocking by the Vikings. I think a lot of RB in the league would be able to do as much as Murray did if presented with the same plays. Murray does have very good speed which is part of why defenders are taking poor angles in trying to stop him. Slower RB would not be able to gain as much ground as Murray does on these plays and defenders would have more time to adjust/recover from their bad angles against a slower RB.
I wish I could say plays like this are sustainable, but I don't really think that they are. The blocking by the Vikings is very encouraging though.
Football Jones
Footballguy
When Cook went down, I initially said Murray had the best chance to be their feature back, but he got outplayed by McKinnon in weeks 5 & 6. This week, Murray outplayed McKinnon. Maybe Murray is getting healthy, but all things being equal, it seems like the Vikings would prefer for Murray to be their feature back & McKinnon to be their CoP/pass-catching back. In reality, it'll probably end up being the hot hand each week.
Regardless, you have to give Minnesota's front office credit for rebuilding their OL. I've long said it can be done in one offseason with the right draft picks & FA signings. It's not impossible. A lot of teams should take notice of what the Vikings did.
Regardless, you have to give Minnesota's front office credit for rebuilding their OL. I've long said it can be done in one offseason with the right draft picks & FA signings. It's not impossible. A lot of teams should take notice of what the Vikings did.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
This is no doubt the best game Murray has had as a Viking.
As I was discussing with JFS and SSND in his thread, Murray did not look very good in games prior to this one and his health trusting his ankle may have been a part of that. Maybe that is something that is behind him now. Also just getting in a rhythm with the offense is something that takes time. He wasn't able to practice much at all with the team during preseason and was behind Cook and McKinnon on the depth chart until Cook went down with injury. So some growing pains with the offense still since then. In previous games he did show that he understood what the Vikings are doing as far as hitting the right holes. I haven't seen that as a problem with him (it is a problem with McKinnon at times, almost every game he makes a mistake like this) he just wasn't hitting those holes with much burst prior to this game. He did that against the Ravens as you can see with a couple of his good but shorter runs.
Murray still has really poor pad level. I don't see him running with as much power as McKinnon does even though he is larger RB. He really doesn't lay the wood. The issue of his poor pad level gets exacerbated by how tall he is. He is a really big target for defenders in the hole and they almost always have the leverage advantage against him because of how tall he is and how high he runs. He isn't a pile mover, which is part of why I disagree with The Frankmans comments above. That isn't the kind of RB he is at all.
He showed better change of direction ability in this game than I have seen from him before. That could be related to him having more confidence in the ankle as well. He had some nice footwork to step over and change direction on that TD run, to shift from running to the corner to just running straight downhill. It still isn't very good change of direction ability compared to a lot of RB, but it was better than I have seen from him with the Vikings thus far, and also going back to watching him with the Raiders.
As I was discussing with JFS and SSND in his thread, Murray did not look very good in games prior to this one and his health trusting his ankle may have been a part of that. Maybe that is something that is behind him now. Also just getting in a rhythm with the offense is something that takes time. He wasn't able to practice much at all with the team during preseason and was behind Cook and McKinnon on the depth chart until Cook went down with injury. So some growing pains with the offense still since then. In previous games he did show that he understood what the Vikings are doing as far as hitting the right holes. I haven't seen that as a problem with him (it is a problem with McKinnon at times, almost every game he makes a mistake like this) he just wasn't hitting those holes with much burst prior to this game. He did that against the Ravens as you can see with a couple of his good but shorter runs.
Murray still has really poor pad level. I don't see him running with as much power as McKinnon does even though he is larger RB. He really doesn't lay the wood. The issue of his poor pad level gets exacerbated by how tall he is. He is a really big target for defenders in the hole and they almost always have the leverage advantage against him because of how tall he is and how high he runs. He isn't a pile mover, which is part of why I disagree with The Frankmans comments above. That isn't the kind of RB he is at all.
He showed better change of direction ability in this game than I have seen from him before. That could be related to him having more confidence in the ankle as well. He had some nice footwork to step over and change direction on that TD run, to shift from running to the corner to just running straight downhill. It still isn't very good change of direction ability compared to a lot of RB, but it was better than I have seen from him with the Vikings thus far, and also going back to watching him with the Raiders.
The Frankman
Footballguy
The speed and burst through the hole is the biggest thing you notice. He's still gimpy with the ankle but he does a good job using lean/bodyfakes to jike defenders. Whereas before he could only get small gains hitting an open hole, now he has the speed to break chunk gains. His pad level has always been too high, but it varies game to game with him.
The good thing is the sheer amount of passing downs he played on. He definitely won't disappear on passing downs due to his pass-blocking, and Minny seems determined to keep this at most 60-40 usage towards Murray/McKinnon. Assuming the ankle stays healthy, he might be able to consistently return low RB2 value.
The good thing is the sheer amount of passing downs he played on. He definitely won't disappear on passing downs due to his pass-blocking, and Minny seems determined to keep this at most 60-40 usage towards Murray/McKinnon. Assuming the ankle stays healthy, he might be able to consistently return low RB2 value.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
It is not a 60/40 split nor has it been since Cook was injured.
In the most recent game Murray played on 31 offensive snaps (47%) McKinnon played on 35 offensive snaps (53%)
FYI Murrays offensive snaps the last 3 games have been 31% 43% then 47% in the most recent game.
In the most recent game Murray played on 31 offensive snaps (47%) McKinnon played on 35 offensive snaps (53%)
FYI Murrays offensive snaps the last 3 games have been 31% 43% then 47% in the most recent game.
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The Frankman
Footballguy
I didn't say 60-40 Murray, I said they probably will give one back 60% AT MOST of the work... aka a timeshare. I say this because most sites have said McKinnon is taking over the backfield when there was no real evidence he would going by snap counts. This was going to be a time share unless Murray continued to look done, and even with McKinnon dazzling the coaches never really seemed inclined to give him the load he had last year.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
It has been a pretty even split between McKinnon and Murray since Cook was injured. Playing time for Murray has trended up over the last 3 weeks but he hasn't crossed the 50% of the snaps mark yet.
McKinnon has played on 67% 57% then 53% over the last 3 weeks.
During these 3 weeks both RB have been used a lot regardless of who is starting (plays on the first offensive play of the game) or who plays more.
Over the last 3 weeks Murray has had 14, 16, 18 opportunities. Trending up just like his snap counts. McKinnon has had 22, 22, 17 opportunities, so more than Murray has before the game vs. the Ravens. But both are getting the ball enough to put up numbers that could be relevant for fantasy. Murrays numbers haven't been the past two weeks, while McKinnons have. But the Vikings have kept Murray involved with the offense regardless. He just didn't have any explosive plays until the game against the Ravens.
Zimmer stated in press conference that this is something that will continue all season as far as them two RB splitting time. He said one player or another may perform better because of the opponent (and random chance) but it isn't really by design.
Sorry if I misunderstood your comment, the way you ordered the players Murray/McKinnon and 60/40 suggested that you may think Murray was getting 20% more of the playing time and opportunity compared to McKinnon which is not the case. Based on your previous post it does seem that you want that to be the case, just making it clear that it isn't.
McKinnon has played on 67% 57% then 53% over the last 3 weeks.
During these 3 weeks both RB have been used a lot regardless of who is starting (plays on the first offensive play of the game) or who plays more.
Over the last 3 weeks Murray has had 14, 16, 18 opportunities. Trending up just like his snap counts. McKinnon has had 22, 22, 17 opportunities, so more than Murray has before the game vs. the Ravens. But both are getting the ball enough to put up numbers that could be relevant for fantasy. Murrays numbers haven't been the past two weeks, while McKinnons have. But the Vikings have kept Murray involved with the offense regardless. He just didn't have any explosive plays until the game against the Ravens.
Zimmer stated in press conference that this is something that will continue all season as far as them two RB splitting time. He said one player or another may perform better because of the opponent (and random chance) but it isn't really by design.
Sorry if I misunderstood your comment, the way you ordered the players Murray/McKinnon and 60/40 suggested that you may think Murray was getting 20% more of the playing time and opportunity compared to McKinnon which is not the case. Based on your previous post it does seem that you want that to be the case, just making it clear that it isn't.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Gotcha. I was a McKinnon owner last year and I remember his toughness playing through the bad ankle and this year thinking the staff wanted to keep him as fresh as possible. Of course you have people who are in game threads championing McKinnon getting 20+ carries a week, but it's not realistic for the Vikes to do so. Coaching staff definitely wants a timeshare to keep both healthy. I see McKinnon as an RB2 due to passing work, and Murray a low end RB2/Flex (until he gets dedciated goalline work/a few backfield targets)
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Both McKinnon and Murray have been getting near starting caliber opportunities in the last 3 weeks. I don't think that can continue all year long, but maybe I am wrong about that.
As long as the defense is playing well and keeping scores low then the Vikings can afford to give both RB a lot of opportunity, as we have seen.
Murray wasn't really doing much with his opportunities in the previous two weeks, while McKinnon was. Despite not putting up much numbers, they still gave Murray 14 and 16 opportunities. That is enough action for fantasy owners to consider him a starting option. The numbers 35 yards and then 29 yards are not going to help you win games though.
113 yards and a TD certainly will. But how sustainable is that really?
Its a good sign no doubt. Murray hasn't made any big plays before the game vs the Ravens. I hope this means he has become more healthy and getting in a groove with the offense. The Ravens do have a good defense although some of their players made some bad mistakes on Murrays two good runs.
I am hopeful that Murray has turned a corner here and his opportunities are more fruitful in games ahead compared to what he did in the previous two games.
I think the Vikings will stick with both RB regardless of how well they are performing. Look at what they were doing with McKinnon and Asiata without Peterson. They still gave Asiata the ball a lot even though he wasn't doing that much with his opportunities. I do think Murray is better than Asiata. Much faster for sure.
Where I will disagree with you is about Jerrick McKinnon. He has had 22 opportunities the previous two weeks and 17 in the most recent game. That is starter level opportunity and I don't see why he cant continue to do what he is already doing. Its very realistic to expect that. It is what has been happening. McKinnons worst game out of the last 3 weeks was against the Ravens and he still had 57 combined yards with 3 receptions. From a fantasy perspective that floor is not going to kill you and the upside is great.
Over the last 3 weeks McKinnon has been RB 3 in PPR leagues.RB 5 in standard. Not sure what more you could ask for, and that includes the most recent game where Murray outshined him.
As long as the defense is playing well and keeping scores low then the Vikings can afford to give both RB a lot of opportunity, as we have seen.
Murray wasn't really doing much with his opportunities in the previous two weeks, while McKinnon was. Despite not putting up much numbers, they still gave Murray 14 and 16 opportunities. That is enough action for fantasy owners to consider him a starting option. The numbers 35 yards and then 29 yards are not going to help you win games though.
113 yards and a TD certainly will. But how sustainable is that really?
Its a good sign no doubt. Murray hasn't made any big plays before the game vs the Ravens. I hope this means he has become more healthy and getting in a groove with the offense. The Ravens do have a good defense although some of their players made some bad mistakes on Murrays two good runs.
I am hopeful that Murray has turned a corner here and his opportunities are more fruitful in games ahead compared to what he did in the previous two games.
I think the Vikings will stick with both RB regardless of how well they are performing. Look at what they were doing with McKinnon and Asiata without Peterson. They still gave Asiata the ball a lot even though he wasn't doing that much with his opportunities. I do think Murray is better than Asiata. Much faster for sure.
Where I will disagree with you is about Jerrick McKinnon. He has had 22 opportunities the previous two weeks and 17 in the most recent game. That is starter level opportunity and I don't see why he cant continue to do what he is already doing. Its very realistic to expect that. It is what has been happening. McKinnons worst game out of the last 3 weeks was against the Ravens and he still had 57 combined yards with 3 receptions. From a fantasy perspective that floor is not going to kill you and the upside is great.
Over the last 3 weeks McKinnon has been RB 3 in PPR leagues.RB 5 in standard. Not sure what more you could ask for, and that includes the most recent game where Murray outshined him.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Murray: You Can't Overlook Any Team In The NFL
I just wanted to say that Murray seems a lot more upbeat and confident than he has in previous press conferences. Success builds confidence.
I just wanted to say that Murray seems a lot more upbeat and confident than he has in previous press conferences. Success builds confidence.
The Frankman
Footballguy
He sounds like a leader ... which is odd because he has seemed so tentative in the past, maybe it's also the ankle feeling better.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Big key is they had pretty much split goalline work evenly, but with game flow here Murray got the lion's share of the RZ work and almost all carries inside the 5. Again he ran with burst and whenever he had blocking he turned it into positive yardage. Every week he looks a little better, actually had some jump cut action a couple of runs, which he couldn't do a few weeks ago. If that usage keeps up he's a legit RB2.
Steel Curtainrod
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
He's not a RB1 (Hunt, Fournette, Elliot etc.) but his production puts him on the lower tier of RBs.
Yeah he's consistently had 15+ carries and stays in for pass blocking so the potential for 1-2 receptions is there. You give him most of the work in the RZ the way he's running? Oh yeah he's a must-start.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I talked about this in the wrong thread again. Here is the link so I don't have to repeat myself.
The Vikings have been opening some massive holes for Murray and he is playing much better now than he was earlier on in the season.
McKinnon is actually still playing more snaps than Murray is, but Murray has been a more productive runner than McKinnon and he is getting the goal line looks. The red zone opportunities for McKinnon haven't been as successful. I do think there may have been a change there.
Things could always flip again, as Zimmer said which RB gets the most looks mostly depends on how the opposing team matches up against them and their game plan.
There are still things about Murray that I don't like stylisitcally, but the results have been good, so just like with Keenum holding off Bridgewater right now, as long as Murray keeps producing I don't see them phasing him out or scaling back his opportunity.
Possible that McKinnon might match up better against the Lions, but McKinnon made mistakes against the Lions last time the Vikings played them, so maybe not.
At this point I hope Murray keeps surprising me with his productive play. It is definitely helping the Vikings offense a lot.
The Vikings have been opening some massive holes for Murray and he is playing much better now than he was earlier on in the season.
McKinnon is actually still playing more snaps than Murray is, but Murray has been a more productive runner than McKinnon and he is getting the goal line looks. The red zone opportunities for McKinnon haven't been as successful. I do think there may have been a change there.
Things could always flip again, as Zimmer said which RB gets the most looks mostly depends on how the opposing team matches up against them and their game plan.
There are still things about Murray that I don't like stylisitcally, but the results have been good, so just like with Keenum holding off Bridgewater right now, as long as Murray keeps producing I don't see them phasing him out or scaling back his opportunity.
Possible that McKinnon might match up better against the Lions, but McKinnon made mistakes against the Lions last time the Vikings played them, so maybe not.
At this point I hope Murray keeps surprising me with his productive play. It is definitely helping the Vikings offense a lot.
Perine showed up on the injury report with a finger issue and he already has a fumbling problem. TMYK
The Frankman
Footballguy
Murray outsnapped McKinnon 40-33 (54.8 to 45.2%) and once again got most of the RZ looks. Since the Bye where he had an extra week of rest for his surgically repaired ankle, he's gone 52/247/4 with 4.75 YPC. He's no longer touchdown dependent at this rate and if Keenum ever gave him a look (still involved in pass pro and runs a lot of pass routes) he could develop RB1 upside.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Murray has been running the ball between the tackles better than McKinnon. Has better vision for his blocking than McKinnon. Murrays 46 yard run is the best run I have seen from him all season. I really like that run and I hope Murray continues to get better.
This is the first week Murray has actually played more snaps than McKinnon. They had one week where is was a 50/50 split.
McKinnon has been getting hit in the backfield a lot and that isn't really his fault. Not sure what is going on there, it almost seems like there is some sort of tell that defenses have identified for when the Vikings are going to run the ball with McKinnon. Murray has been getting better blocking on his runs than McKinnon has recently.
This is the first week Murray has actually played more snaps than McKinnon. They had one week where is was a 50/50 split.
McKinnon has been getting hit in the backfield a lot and that isn't really his fault. Not sure what is going on there, it almost seems like there is some sort of tell that defenses have identified for when the Vikings are going to run the ball with McKinnon. Murray has been getting better blocking on his runs than McKinnon has recently.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
IMO if Murray takes that first goal line carry left. He scores that first TD. The one where Rudolph caught his first TD the very next play.
They showed an aerial view and a cut left gets him in easy.
I say this more as an armchair running back that started him in fantasy. But he was oh so close again to 80-90 yards and two TDs.
As a Vikings fan, he looks great and really grinds out tough yards, but as we have seen, still has the ability to break the big one.
saintfool
Dead sexy
He's played about as well as I expected. He's still got a weird running style but whatever. It's effective mostly. I hope he moves on to a team that can make use of him. Zimmer knows that Cook is the better back, like we all do, but he's shown himself to be a solid starter for a season or two longer.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah I agree on that run he missed an opportunity to score there. I had forgotten about that one.
Murray certainly has flaws.Some of those flaws are not fixable either. He really is too tall for a RB. This makes it so most of the time he cannot win leverage at the point of contact, it does help him gain more if he can fall forward when going down though. His lateral agility is still lacking compared to other RB, this is part of what was so impressive to me about the 46 yard run, as he demonstrated some better ability to shift sideways, use his blocking and keep going forward that I do not see from him most of the time. The duck walking is working for him there.He is such a big target, it is hard for him to exploit small holes by getting skinny the way Dalvin Cook can do.
I don't consider him a RB 1 for fantasy, although there is enough weakness in the top 12 this year that he could make it there? Or perform as one for the remainder of the season if he keeps having good games?
Right now Murray is RB 22 in standard scoring and RB 32 in PPR scoring. Over his last 4 games he is RB 5 and RB 3 respectively. Still a lot of games to be played yet for this week but likely not enough to knock him out of the top 12 once those are played. Of course a large part of that is because he has scored TD in his last 3 games, while RB as a whole are struggling to score TD consistently.
I am hoping that Murray/McKinnon will be good enough for the Vikings to have a decent running game in the playoffs but I am not sure it will be against teams that are good at stopping the run. Case Keenum has done a lot better with play action passes than just normal pass attempts. If the running game is ineffective then that goes away.
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need2know
Footballguy
I think he might be a rb1 for the remainder. I'm thinking about benching Melvin Gordon for him going forward. Gordon has been awful. Murray might get less touches but he's doing way more with them
I have both McKinnon and Murray on my team, and this week was the first time I've used Murray this year. He might supplant McKinnon as a staple in my line-up going forward, and McKinnon might go to the bench depending on how others do this weekend. I was hoping to get a combined 30 points from the tandem this week, but that was unrealistc.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
He might be. He needs to keep scoring TD I think to do that though.
Currently the Panthers are the 2nd best defense against the run in total yards allowed, tied for 10th overall in ypc allowed. They are ranked 3rd by football outsiders metrics. So that looks to be the next test for the Vikings running game.
The Bengals are tied with the Panthers in terms of ypc allowed but 24th in total yards allowed (not doing enough on offense, so more attempts against). They are ranked 12th against the run by football outsiders.
The Packers and Bears look like they are similar to the Bengals in run defense. Slightly above average.
The next game against the Falcons, they have been worse against the run than the other teams remaining on the schedule. So that should be a good match up.
So one difficult test against the Panthers and the rest I would call neutral match ups. The Falcons maybe a good match up.
The Eagles have the best run defense in the league right now based on these same measurements.
The Browns somewhat surprisingly are up there in the top 5 with the Eagles, Panthers, Broncos, Vikings. The Titans run defense has been pretty good as well.
Murray had 19 rushing attermpts 39 yards 1 target 1 reception 8 yards against the Browns. McKinnon had a rushing TD in that game and overall a better day due to his 72 receiving yards.
So perhaps he will have similar results in the game against the Panthers two weeks from now.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
As far as run blocking goes the Vikings have slipped from being an above average run blocking offensive line according to football outsiders to a slightly below average run blocking line.
Currently the Vikings are 20th in adjusted line yards, 22nd in power success, 17th in stuffed rank, 13th in 2nd level blocking rank, 14th in open field rank.
I am pretty sure they were significantly better than this a few weeks ago when I looked at this last. The main differences being that Mike Remmers has not been playing at right tackle for most of the last 4 games where he was concussed early on in the Browns game. Rashod Hill has been playing at right tackle instead. Hill is a good pass blocker but not as good at run blocking as Remmers is. The other difference is likely the stuffed rank getting worse, as there have been several runs stuffed for loss against McKinnon in the last two games.
Detroit and the Rams are not as good at run defense as the Bengals, Bears or Packers using the metrics of total yards allowed and yards per carry.
Getting Mike Remmers back as the right tackle could improve this aspect of run blocking for the Vikings going forward.
Currently the Vikings are 20th in adjusted line yards, 22nd in power success, 17th in stuffed rank, 13th in 2nd level blocking rank, 14th in open field rank.
I am pretty sure they were significantly better than this a few weeks ago when I looked at this last. The main differences being that Mike Remmers has not been playing at right tackle for most of the last 4 games where he was concussed early on in the Browns game. Rashod Hill has been playing at right tackle instead. Hill is a good pass blocker but not as good at run blocking as Remmers is. The other difference is likely the stuffed rank getting worse, as there have been several runs stuffed for loss against McKinnon in the last two games.
Detroit and the Rams are not as good at run defense as the Bengals, Bears or Packers using the metrics of total yards allowed and yards per carry.
Getting Mike Remmers back as the right tackle could improve this aspect of run blocking for the Vikings going forward.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
You are a wealth of knowledge and I always enjoy reading your posts. Any idea on when Remmers will return?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Thanks for the kind words.
Remmers was questionable on a short week, so close to playing against the Lions. I think it is pretty good chance he plays against Atlanta.
He has been out a long time with a concussion. 4 weeks now, so it must have been a pretty serious one. I was hoping he would be back after the bye for the Washington game.
Steel Curtainrod
Footballguy
King of the gifted TD this year. Unbelievably lucky.
grateful zed
Footballguy
so, whats is everybody thinking?
... that the first 5 weeks are probably more indicative of what we should expect moving forward.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
this, though it was the easiest defense the vikes have faced during cook's absence and they weren't playing from behind from the get go (see buffalo game). that is, murray faced some stiff defenses and cook was involved in some form in all but one game prior to this one, so who knows. cook owner and i dropped murray last week even with the cook absence looming and i don't regret it one bit (yet). murray is a capable back, but not 150/td every week good. maybe half that as a baseline behind that o-line if cook never came back this year. feels like it would still be chasing points with Murray with this game as the outlier.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
While the Cardinals defense certainly a big part of how the Vikings ran the ball yesterday, I think it is also a good sign of the offensive line starting to gel now. The offensive line did not have Pat Elflien at Center for the first 3 games. I think he has been getting better now with experience, and the guards are starting to get used to him now as well. This takes a few games for that to come together.
They are still below average at guard, especially left guard, but Remmers has been pretty bad as well. Remmers did have some good blocks for Murray on the right side in the most recent game though.
This is with a new QB and a new offensive coordinator as well. I would not consider the first 4 weeks to be indicative of how the teams will play the rest of the season. The teams do so little in practice and preseason that those first few weeks are kind of an extended preseason. Lots of teams finding themselves and working things out during these early games.
I don't expect the players on the offensive line individually to play better as the season goes on, except for Elflien and O'Niel who are both still very young players and still developing. The other linemen are older and they are who they are at this point. If Danny Ididora could push to start at guard that would be a sign of him improving a lot. He hasn't yet though.
But even if the players are not getting better, they are getting better in terms of chemistry and working together.
A bad run defense certainly helps that get on track. If the Vikings didn't do that in this game, there would be a lot more reason to worry.
They are still below average at guard, especially left guard, but Remmers has been pretty bad as well. Remmers did have some good blocks for Murray on the right side in the most recent game though.
This is with a new QB and a new offensive coordinator as well. I would not consider the first 4 weeks to be indicative of how the teams will play the rest of the season. The teams do so little in practice and preseason that those first few weeks are kind of an extended preseason. Lots of teams finding themselves and working things out during these early games.
I don't expect the players on the offensive line individually to play better as the season goes on, except for Elflien and O'Niel who are both still very young players and still developing. The other linemen are older and they are who they are at this point. If Danny Ididora could push to start at guard that would be a sign of him improving a lot. He hasn't yet though.
But even if the players are not getting better, they are getting better in terms of chemistry and working together.
A bad run defense certainly helps that get on track. If the Vikings didn't do that in this game, there would be a lot more reason to worry.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Murray is good enough that he should be on someones roster. You never know what may happen with Cook.
I hope Cook gets healthy and goes gang busters, but even if he does, doesn't mean he won't get hurt again at some point. Murray has value obviously if Cook is out.
Mike Boone had a 20 yard run as well. The offensive line did a good job of blocking for the run game for a change.
I hope Cook gets healthy and goes gang busters, but even if he does, doesn't mean he won't get hurt again at some point. Murray has value obviously if Cook is out.
Mike Boone had a 20 yard run as well. The offensive line did a good job of blocking for the run game for a change.
groin pains
Footballguy
He has been JAG with the exception of the Arizona game. Forced to start him over Drake in my PPR league, but not overly confident.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
Jag with RB 3 upside? ?
grateful zed
Footballguy
15 69 2
2 14
2 14
