Re: Bill Simmons article equating NE to NYY (1 Viewer)

[Colin Dowling]

Full Article - ESPN

Simmons essentially notes that the Pats have possibly turned in to the Yankees in that the winning isn't exciting to non-fans as we are a culture that likes change, yada yada. I tend to agree with that.

Early on, he states,

At this point, I was starting to get bummed out. How could people not appreciate an undermanned, banged-up underdog that persevered simply by playing well together, by being well-coached and well-prepared, by pulling off all the Little Things and by believing in one another and steadfastly trusting they could pull out any close game? How could people not appreciate Troy Brown's supernatural strip of Marlon McCree (one of the greatest heads-up plays in Boston sports history), or Brady's slogging through a dog-crap game and having the balls to zing that ridiculously clutch throw to Reche Caldwell on the winning drive? How could they fail to be impressed that Belichick and the Pats knocked off a 16-1 team, a 16-2 team, a 15-3 team, a 14-2 team, a 14-3 team and a 14-4 team over the past five Januarys?

...and then goes on to details what's wrong in the sportsviewing world, i.e. we've all become apathetic to the good guys and cynical. We like to break down more then build up.Like another Boston homer, Simmons misses the point.

I think the reason people tire of the Patriots isn't our desire to break down more then build up, it's because some of the most widely circulated news-journalists in the USA (led by Peter King, Bill Simmons, and to an extent, Peter Gammons) can't help themselves but continue writing about how great the Patriots are while being such aw shucks nice guys.

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots. I would love to read qualitative analysis of this weekend's game and the team in general, but I'm not finding all that much. Instead, I'm reading the same hash about New England that we've been reading for years courtesy of the same few people who've been hashing it. Peter King refers to "the greatest QB in the game, Tom Brady" executing a game plan by "the genius that is Bill Belichik" and of course never bestows such accolades on anyone else aside from Brett Favre.

So, let it be known, I'm not tired of the Patriots - far from it. They play great football and whether they win or lose, they certainly will compel me to watch every second. What I'm tired of is being reminded over and over how wonderful things are in Patriot land and if I don't see the rainbows and sunflowers, well, there must be something wrong with me.

 

[code]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots.

Coincidentally, that's also when I got over my dislike of avocado.

 

[code]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots.

Coincidentally, that's also when I got over my dislike of avocado.

Would you say the Patriots are a dynasty?

 

[Gr00vus]

I don't hate the Patriots team. I respect them and their accomplishments, but I don't really care about them one way or another. Despite what went on after the game Sunday, overall I find them inoffensive. I also find them bland and uninteresting. I find them not very exciting to watch in terms of their game play (as opposed to the tension of any given game). I don't think the media gladhands the Pats as much as they did the Montana 49ers, the 1985 Bears, the Aikman cowboys, the Favre packers, the Elway Broncos, etc. I'm always surprised by how little attention they get most of the year until the playoffs roll around and then it's like "oh, ####, we forgot how good these guys are." I don't equate them to the Yanks because unlike the Yankees they don't try to buy their way into championships, their owner doesn't touch Steinbrenner in terms of being publically odious, they don't tend to foster arrogant (sometimes obnoxious) players, they don't dominate the league financially, their merchandise isn't everywhere all the time - the Pats don't really do that. I have no strong feelings about them either way, I certainly don't dislike them.

Pats/New England fans on the other hand ........

 

[wadegarrett]

I hate 'em.

But then again, I pretty much hate all other teams except the ones I root for.

 

[TD Ryan]

I don't hate the Patriots team. I respect them and their accomplishments, but I don't really care about them one way or another. Despite what went on after the game Sunday, overall I find them inoffensive. I also find them bland and uninteresting. I find them not very exciting to watch in terms of their game play (as opposed to the tension of any given game). I don't think the media gladhands the Pats as much as they did the Montana 49ers, the 1985 Bears, the Aikman cowboys, the Favre packers, the Elway Broncos, etc. I'm always surprised by how little attention they get most of the year until the playoffs roll around and then it's like "oh, ####, we forgot how good these guys are." I don't equate them to the Yanks because they don't try to buy their way into championships, their owner doesn't touch Steinbrenner in terms of being publically odious, they tend to foster arrogant, sometimes obnoxious players, they dominate the league financially, their merchandise is everywhere all the time - the Pats don't really do that. I have no strong feelings about them either way, I certainly don't dislike them.

Pats/New England fans on the other hand ........

this is, without question, the best explanation I've ever heard for "not liking" the Patriots.Offense and flashiness sells... MOST people will want to see a high flying SuperBowl with the Colts and NO; the 2 teams that will most likely prove to be the most "entertaining".

NE doesn't fit the bill here. The most entertainment you'll get is *IF* Bob Kraft is drunk in the post game celebration.

I don't know... I guess it's like when an ugly guy is always getting the hotties... it drives every other guy with seemingly more "game" nuts. So, yeah, the idea that there's nothing "sexy" or "appealing" about the Patriots isnt' an unfair statement for non-homers. I don't blame you for wanting to see a high scoring, high flying, acrobatic game. NE just doesn't do it that way... and really, it kind of mirrors the whole NE area: it's cold, we're grumpy, we're gray, we're jaded, and we're cynical. We don't go to the "club", we go to the "bar", and once we're there, we don't need no flashy characters trying to give the place "astmosphere".

 

[Colin Dowling]

I think that while offense sells, Patriots games are significantly more entertaining then any of the other teams.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots.

Coincidentally, that's also when I got over my dislike of avocado.

Would you say the Patriots are a dynasty?

2 games from now, I suppose we'll know.

 

[Marc Levin]

I don't think we need any more games - the Pats are a dynasty.

 

[Sheriff66]

Pats lose this week, can't wait....

 

[davper]

As a NE Homer and a Red Sox Die Hard...

...I would hate for the Pats to be likened to the Yankees. As Gr00vus noted, the Pats are far from. But if the Pats continue to be an every year playoff team who is always a strong contender for the SB, fans everywhere will grow tired and hatred will grow from there. As seems to be already happening.

I would be happy to see them be a strong contender every couple of years. And maybe make the SB every six years.

 

[Chase Stuart]

When the Yankees were winning in the late 90s, lots of people kept saying how can you hate on guys like Derek Jeter and Joe Torre, two great guys? Tino Martinez is a good guy, Paul O'Neil gave it 140%, Scott Brosius was gritty, Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera were incredible but humble, etc. That Yankees squad was almost entirely filled with players Yankees fans thought were good guys. You always heard them say "what's there to hate about any of the Yankees? They're all good people."

You hear Pats fans say a lot of the same thing. And the Yankees never had a big bopper and played the game "the way it was supposed to be played." I do see a lot of comparisons between the two teams.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots.

Coincidentally, that's also when I got over my dislike of avocado.

Would you say the Patriots are a dynasty?

:(

2 games from now, I suppose we'll know.

Would they be a dynasty because of the 3-4 years or 4-6 years? I remember you being pretty adamant that the non playoff year of 2002 broke the string between championships

 

[Gr00vus]

When the Yankees were winning in the late 90s, lots of people kept saying how can you hate on guys like Derek Jeter and Joe Torre, two great guys? Tino Martinez is a good guy, Paul O'Neil gave it 140%, Scott Brosius was gritty, Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera were incredible but humble, etc. That Yankees squad was almost entirely filled with players Yankees fans thought were good guys. You always heard them say "what's there to hate about any of the Yankees? They're all good people."You hear Pats fans say a lot of the same thing. And the Yankees never had a big bopper and played the game "the way it was supposed to be played." I do see a lot of comparisons between the two teams.

The Yankees comparison isn't just to the 90's playoff teams, it's to the franchise in general over its continuity since its inception as a dominating franchise. You're referring to an exception in Yankees history, not the norm. The Pats do not relate to the Yankees in that light.

 

[roadkill1292]

Simmons must spend time in the Pool.

"Every game and event is digested and processed almost instantly, and then it's rehashed and digested again, and then it's beaten into the ground, and within a few hours everyone feels obligated to come up with their own unique angle on things -- even if it's extreme, even if it's insane, even if it's blisteringly nasty or vicious, even if it's completely nonsensical or inane."

 

[S.K.A.]

I found his use of "jumped the shark" phrase to be very interesting.

 

[Mr. Pink]

When the Yankees were winning in the late 90s, lots of people kept saying how can you hate on guys like Derek Jeter and Joe Torre, two great guys? Tino Martinez is a good guy, Paul O'Neil gave it 140%, Scott Brosius was gritty, Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera were incredible but humble, etc. That Yankees squad was almost entirely filled with players Yankees fans thought were good guys. You always heard them say "what's there to hate about any of the Yankees? They're all good people."You hear Pats fans say a lot of the same thing. And the Yankees never had a big bopper and played the game "the way it was supposed to be played." I do see a lot of comparisons between the two teams.

Very Was just in a conversation about this with a co-worker today. As much as I hated the Yankees, I found it hard to hate those Yankee teams in the 90's. I'm going to use a term near and dear to our Red Sox, but those Yankee teams were the original "dirt dogs." Lots of character guys with more substance than flash. The only thing I really hated about the Yankees then was facing them.The comparisons between the Yanks and today's Patriots continues ad nauseum, but I cannot deny the fact I agree with it to a fair extent.

 

[Mr. Pink]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots.

Coincidentally, that's also when I got over my dislike of avocado.

Would you say the Patriots are a dynasty?

2 games from now, I suppose we'll know.

Would they be a dynasty because of the 3-4 years or 4-6 years? I remember you being pretty adamant that the non playoff year of 2002 broke the string between championships

The Patriots of the 2000s is a dynasty already. 3 of 4 SBs in the salary cap era is a feat some of us may never see again in our lifetime. Heck, they could bow out this year, win the SB next year and the dynasty would continue.I recall a couple of years back there was debate about whether you could consider a team that won 2 of 3 championships in the salary cap era to be a dynasty. Most scoffed at the notion. Once the Pats got their third, and went through the toughest possible road to get, I figured the debate was over. Or should I rehash?

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=143185&hl=

 

[BGP]

People love Cinderella stories. The Patriots were that in 2001. But they can't be that anymore. So people will tend to root against them as their dynasty develops.

 

[BGP]

I'm always surprised by how little attention they get most of the year until the playoffs roll around and then it's like "oh, ####, we forgot how good these guys are."

I think its because the media can't figure out how Belichick does it. So instead of writing "Well, we're dumb" they just act like the Patriots don't exist.If the Patriots were a FBG poster, they would get everything right, no-one would believe a word they said, and half the forum would have them on ignore.Its closed-mindedness. Some people believe what they want to believe. The Patriots lack a litany of pro-bowlers, they lack a lot of things people believe wins titles, so therefore they cannot be good.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots.

Coincidentally, that's also when I got over my dislike of avocado.

Would you say the Patriots are a dynasty?

2 games from now, I suppose we'll know.

Would they be a dynasty because of the 3-4 years or 4-6 years? I remember you being pretty adamant that the non playoff year of 2002 broke the string between championships

The Patriots of the 2000s is a dynasty already. 3 of 4 SBs in the salary cap era is a feat some of us may never see again in our lifetime. Heck, they could bow out this year, win the SB next year and the dynasty would continue.I recall a couple of years back there was debate about whether you could consider a team that won 2 of 3 championships in the salary cap era to be a dynasty. Most scoffed at the notion. Once the Pats got their third, and went through the toughest possible road to get, I figured the debate was over. Or should I rehash?

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=143185&hl=

Dowling vehemently denied (must have been in his Patriot hate period) that the Patriots winning 3 of 4 SB's was a dynasty because in the 4th year they missed the playoffs with a 9-7 record. So my quesiton wasmore directed at Colin than anyone else.

 

[S.K.A.]

I think Colin already stated that he was in denial. What is your point Pat Patriot? Some of us might take it as you trying to stick his nose in it. You wouldn't want to perpetuate a negative view of Patriot fans, would you?

 

[Pat Patriot]

I think Colin already stated that he was in denial. What is your point Pat Patriot? Some of us might take it as you trying to stick his nose in it. You wouldn't want to perpetuate a negative view of Patriot fans, would you?

Colin and I had some pretty good battles back in the day. Just trying to rekindle old friendships. Colin knows he was a misguided lost soul. I'm glad to see he has found himself.

 

[Kal El]

The one thing that keeps sticking in my mind after reading this article and realizing the Red Sox and Patriots are, in effect, Yankee clones in a way, is the sone "I think I'm a Clone now." I don't know why, though.

 

[Mr. Pink]

The one thing that keeps sticking in my mind after reading this article and realizing the Red Sox and Patriots are, in effect, Yankee clones in a way, is the sone "I think I'm a Clone now." I don't know why, though.

What's a sone?

 

[Colin Dowling]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots.

Coincidentally, that's also when I got over my dislike of avocado.

Would you say the Patriots are a dynasty?

2 games from now, I suppose we'll know.

Would they be a dynasty because of the 3-4 years or 4-6 years? I remember you being pretty adamant that the non playoff year of 2002 broke the string between championships

The Patriots of the 2000s is a dynasty already. 3 of 4 SBs in the salary cap era is a feat some of us may never see again in our lifetime. Heck, they could bow out this year, win the SB next year and the dynasty would continue.I recall a couple of years back there was debate about whether you could consider a team that won 2 of 3 championships in the salary cap era to be a dynasty. Most scoffed at the notion. Once the Pats got their third, and went through the toughest possible road to get, I figured the debate was over. Or should I rehash?

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=143185&hl=

Dowling vehemently denied (must have been in his Patriot hate period) that the Patriots winning 3 of 4 SB's was a dynasty because in the 4th year they missed the playoffs with a 9-7 record. So my quesiton wasmore directed at Colin than anyone else.

I still believe the "missing the playoffs" year taints things. That said, I'm not much of a fool; if the Pats win another SB in the next 3-4 years, titles like "dynasty" will be hard to deny. In hindsight, I think that calling them a dynasty grates me because the first title was one they SHOULDN'T have won. They pulled out a couple fortunate (yet well earned) wins in the first one, so, to me (IMO) it's harder to count then the last ttwo where they were clearly the best team in the NFL. To try and offer a comparison, if the Steelers win the SB in '08 and '09 and '10, I'd not include '06 since so much has changed and they performed so mediocrely in '07.

In other words, if the Pats win it this year, I'll think of "3 in 4 years" as a more significant stamp of their dynasty then "4 in 6". I mean that as a compliment. I realize some folks, most folks, disagree. But frankly, that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Full Article - ESPN

Simmons essentially notes that the Pats have possibly turned in to the Yankees in that the winning isn't exciting to non-fans as we are a culture that likes change, yada yada. I tend to agree with that.

Early on, he states,

At this point, I was starting to get bummed out. How could people not appreciate an undermanned, banged-up underdog that persevered simply by playing well together, by being well-coached and well-prepared, by pulling off all the Little Things and by believing in one another and steadfastly trusting they could pull out any close game? How could people not appreciate Troy Brown's supernatural strip of Marlon McCree (one of the greatest heads-up plays in Boston sports history), or Brady's slogging through a dog-crap game and having the balls to zing that ridiculously clutch throw to Reche Caldwell on the winning drive? How could they fail to be impressed that Belichick and the Pats knocked off a 16-1 team, a 16-2 team, a 15-3 team, a 14-2 team, a 14-3 team and a 14-4 team over the past five Januarys?

...and then goes on to details what's wrong in the sportsviewing world, i.e. we've all become apathetic to the good guys and cynical. We like to break down more then build up.Like another Boston homer, Simmons misses the point.

I think the reason people tire of the Patriots isn't our desire to break down more then build up, it's because some of the most widely circulated news-journalists in the USA (led by Peter King, Bill Simmons, and to an extent, Peter Gammons) can't help themselves but continue writing about how great the Patriots are while being such aw shucks nice guys.

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change. I was sold, and hoped that the team I cheer for (Tennessee) would find the luck/sense to imitate the Patriots. I would love to read qualitative analysis of this weekend's game and the team in general, but I'm not finding all that much. Instead, I'm reading the same hash about New England that we've been reading for years courtesy of the same few people who've been hashing it. Peter King refers to "the greatest QB in the game, Tom Brady" executing a game plan by "the genius that is Bill Belichik" and of course never bestows such accolades on anyone else aside from Brett Favre.

So, let it be known, I'm not tired of the Patriots - far from it. They play great football and whether they win or lose, they certainly will compel me to watch every second. What I'm tired of is being reminded over and over how wonderful things are in Patriot land and if I don't see the rainbows and sunflowers, well, there must be something wrong with me.

I don't see the constant drum beat of everything is wonderful in Patriot land? Simmons is a homer, Gammons is a baseball writer and King is King who tends to go for the hyperbole no matter who he is writing about whether its the Eagles, Giants, Cowboys, Manning, Favre etc. NE for the most part does tend to accumulate players who put themselves above the team. Obviously so do many other teams but NE has become the NFL poster child for aquiring these types of players while eschewing "I am the greatest" superstar players who want the world and the teams payroll to revolve around themselves. How many Patriots are going to the Pro Bowl? How many deserved to go?

It is only natural that Brady and BB get most of the attention because they are the center of the Patriots universe. As i've said many times before, as long as Brady and BB are there, NE will be a highly competitive team. It doesn't mean that NE doesn't have or need other very good or great players such as Vrabel, Harrison, Seymour, Brusci etc, of course they do and they can't win without good players. But BB, his intellect, schemes and philosophy combined with Brady's talent, intellect and fortitude are without question the heart and soul of that team.

What I have seen and especially heard this year from all the football talking heads on tv and radio is NE went too far this year in letting Branch go and their hubris was finally going to catch up with them. Most of the football world doesn't get it. It is not hubris that lead to Branch leaving, it is a philosophy and a system that dictates what the value of players and positions are. They have specific values they they place on each position and it certainly appears that QB, DT are near the top while WR, OL and DB are near the bottom. They are going to stick to their system all the while knowing that losing players like Damien Woody, Ty Law, Milloy, Givens and Branch will have an immediate negative impact on the quality of the team. But they steadfastly believe that in the long run they will be better off and better able to manage their team long term. They will find someone who may not be as good as a Branch but one who is good enough. The money that wasn't spent overpaying for a Branch & Givens and the 1st rd draft pick will be used on other players to make the team better in other areas. This really, really hurt NE at the beginning of this year but as every game goes by, the impact of losing Branch is lessened and the teams ability to adapt & improve overall (assimilate other players, draft picks etc) is increased.

Have I drunk the BB Kool Aid? Hell ya, but somebody tell me why I shouldn't? I can not understand why don't more teams use the same philosophy? Why the hell would any team, never mind a re-building one give David Givens 24 million?

IMHO, the reason non NE fans (most of the country ) have tired of the Patriots is because while NE may have many very good players, they have very few superstars, that combined with winning so darned much. People want to see their team or someone different and I don't blame them, I felt the same way when it was the Cowboys and SF who were winning every year.

 

[S.K.A.]

Speaking only for myself, I just don't like Belichick. He is a hall of fame coach, but I just don't like the guy. I do get tired of hearing about the Patriots, but that would be true of any team that is/was as dominant as the Patsies have been.

If I was a NE fan, I wouldn't give a crap about why people hate my team. As a matter of fact, I am a Raider fan and revel in people hating the Raiders. I take it as a compliment (obviously not so much the last five years) and the Patriot fan base should as well.

Patriot fans are enjoying a truly great team. People just naturally root for the underdogs and that won't change. That is why everyone wants to see a Saints-Colts superbowl.

It just gets nauseating when a Northeast team of any sport has a large measure of success because we all know that a large measure of our sportswriters/casters are located there and give a disproportional amount of ink/air time to those teams.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Speaking only for myself, I just don't like Belichick. He is a hall of fame coach, but I just don't like the guy. I do get tired of hearing about the Patriots, but that would be true of any team that is/was as dominant as the Patsies have been. If I was a NE fan, I wouldn't give a crap about why people hate my team. As a matter of fact, I am a Raider fan and revel in people hating the Raiders. I take it as a compliment (obviously not so much the last five years) and the Patriot fan base should as well.Patriot fans are enjoying a truly great team. People just naturally root for the underdogs and that won't change. That is why everyone wants to see a Saints-Colts superbowl. It just gets nauseating when a Northeast team of any sport has a large measure of success because we all know that a large measure of our sportswriters/casters are located there and give a disproportional amount of ink/air time to those teams.

Can't argue with any of that

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

I don't hate the Patriots team. I respect them and their accomplishments, but I don't really care about them one way or another. Despite what went on after the game Sunday, overall I find them inoffensive. I also find them bland and uninteresting. I find them not very exciting to watch in terms of their game play (as opposed to the tension of any given game). I don't think the media gladhands the Pats as much as they did the Montana 49ers, the 1985 Bears, the Aikman cowboys, the Favre packers, the Elway Broncos, etc. I'm always surprised by how little attention they get most of the year until the playoffs roll around and then it's like "oh, ####, we forgot how good these guys are." I don't equate them to the Yanks because unlike the Yankees they don't try to buy their way into championships, their owner doesn't touch Steinbrenner in terms of being publicly odious, they don't tend to foster arrogant (sometimes obnoxious) players, they don't dominate the league financially, their merchandise isn't everywhere all the time - the Pats don't really do that. I have no strong feelings about them either way, I certainly don't dislike them.

Pats/New England fans on the other hand ........

Best post of this thread. I admire what the NE organization has done. I disagree with how they have done it sometimes, but I admire that they keep winning.

OTOH, most NE fans I simply loathe. Just like I loathe St. Louis Cardinal MLB fans. There team never does anything wrong, and for you to assert that they are deficient in some area is blasphemous. There is also the point, that most NE people I listen to and read have absolutely no clue that life (and good sports franchises) exist west of Pennsylvania.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Yankee's don't have a salary cap. The Patriots do.

Big difference.

 

[Spike]

When the Yankees were winning in the late 90s, lots of people kept saying how can you hate on guys like Derek Jeter and Joe Torre, two great guys? Tino Martinez is a good guy, Paul O'Neil gave it 140%, Scott Brosius was gritty, Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera were incredible but humble, etc. That Yankees squad was almost entirely filled with players Yankees fans thought were good guys. You always heard them say "what's there to hate about any of the Yankees? They're all good people."You hear Pats fans say a lot of the same thing. And the Yankees never had a big bopper and played the game "the way it was supposed to be played." I do see a lot of comparisons between the two teams.

And I'm a New Englander!

 

[Sheriff66]

Pats are an overrated team with a good QB, that is all, and will be exposed this weekend as such. If Bledsoe didn't get knocked out in that game a few years back, we wouldn't be discussing this and BB would be another run of the mill coach like he was before Brady. Thank Tom Brady, awesome QB, for making this team what it is. I don't think that slow D will be able to keep up this weekend....

 

[Pat Patriot]

Pats are an overrated team with a good QB, that is all, and will be exposed this weekend as such. If Bledsoe didn't get knocked out in that game a few years back, we wouldn't be discussing this and BB would be another run of the mill coach like he was before Brady. Thank Tom Brady, awesome QB, for making this team what it is. I don't think that slow D will be able to keep up this weekend....

I thought Tom Brady was a product of the system?

 

[Sheriff66]

Pats are an overrated team with a good QB, that is all, and will be exposed this weekend as such. If Bledsoe didn't get knocked out in that game a few years back, we wouldn't be discussing this and BB would be another run of the mill coach like he was before Brady. Thank Tom Brady, awesome QB, for making this team what it is. I don't think that slow D will be able to keep up this weekend....

I thought Tom Brady was a product of the system?

I never said that chief, he's a great QB, probably the best....but the train stops tomorrow in Indy. (As long as you don't get another one handed to ya)

 

[Pat Patriot]

Pats are an overrated team with a good QB, that is all, and will be exposed this weekend as such. If Bledsoe didn't get knocked out in that game a few years back, we wouldn't be discussing this and BB would be another run of the mill coach like he was before Brady. Thank Tom Brady, awesome QB, for making this team what it is. I don't think that slow D will be able to keep up this weekend....

I thought Tom Brady was a product of the system?

I never said that chief, he's a great QB, probably the best....but the train stops tomorrow in Indy. (As long as you don't get another one handed to ya)

Keep adding caveats and I'll keep celebrating championships.I wasnt referring to you but there for a long time most thought Brady was simply a product of the system. It is only now that he has sustained his greatness that he is recognized as one of the best. Hugh Douglas in Philly has always said that Brady was a product of the system and only this week admitted on the air that "Brady is a heck of a QB." And that was after one of his worst games.

 

[Kal El]

The one thing that keeps sticking in my mind after reading this article and realizing the Red Sox and Patriots are, in effect, Yankee clones in a way, is the sone "I think I'm a Clone now." I don't know why, though.

What's a sone?

I meant song. I hate my keyboard.

 

[thesurfshop19]

The Yankee's don't have a salary cap. The Patriots do.

Big difference.

I see this claim all the time and it doesn't make sense on a fundamental level.(Preface: I actually like the Patriots a lot and always have, unless they're playing Denver.)

The reason is because it calls even more attention to your own team's deficiencies.

If the Yankees beat you the standings, you can rationalize that they have a fundamental advantage from the New York market size.

If the Patriots beat you in the standings, you can't make that rationalization. You have to come to the conclusion that, over the long run, the Patriots are just smarter about what they do.

If I'm a fan of another team, and Pats fans are saying "we're better because we're just smarter than you" do you really think that's BETTER? That's even more likely to make other fans angry!

This is the one key area that Patriots fans in general haven't been able to understand. Bill Simmons keeps trying to make the Patriots the plucky underdog they were back in 2001, but the fact is, they're not any more than the 1998-2000 Yankees were.

The Patriots are the most talented team in the NFL, and have been since 2003. Their talent isn't top-heavy, and it isn't necessarily obvious because talent isn't just size and speed but it's potential and role play. The Patriots' talent is more strategically targeted than anyone else's, which is why they don't have to have the most "on paper" talent but can still have the most overall talent.

As for the win over the Chargers, there were several computer formulas that had the Patriots overall as the better team (Sagarin's "Predictor" rating and FootballOutsiders.com DVOA ratings for example). The Chargers have been similar to the 1999-2001 Rams in that they struggle against good teams but put up great numbers against the rest of the league. The Patriots were the perfect team to beat them.

 

[MarshallRob]

Even if everybody in the Yankee lineup was a great guy who was kind to his mother and helped old ladies cross the street, a significant percentage of the public would root against them for the sole reason that the Yankees have a huge competitive advantage every year. No other team can match the Yankees payroll nor could they ever hope to. Other teams can do everything right and at best hope to make the occasional run at a pennant (i.e. the Marlins). The Yankees have a chance to win every single season. On top of that, while Yankees fans may appreciate Steinbrenner's willingness to spend whatever it takes to field a champion, others just see a guy who's a jerk, a sore loser, and somebody who selfishly puts the interests of his team above the interests of his sport.

On the other hand, the Patriots have no competitive advantages over the rest of the NFL. Any other team could have drafted Brady or signed many of the other key players on the New England team. Their success is due to: (1) smart personnel moves; (2) great coaching; (3) superior on-field play; and (4) luck. I'd like to see them fall apart but I'm a Dolphins fan and I recognize the Patriots have done a better job than Miami has in every area in this decade. I don't think New England's players are better human beings than those on other NFL rosters (except for Cincinnati!) and to the extent they are touted as such that could account for a bit of resentment. But New England's success is nothing like the Yankees. Thanks to the draft and the salary cap every team plays by the same rules. Their success seems more "earned" than the Yankees does.

I agree with Simmons about one thing. Any sports media person who expresses annoyance that they have to see the Colts and Patriots play yet again is an idiot. This is THE great NFL rivalry of our time and even if you have no particular rooting interest how can you not appreciate it if you're an NFL fan? Any sportswriter who can't find something interesting to write about this game should just quit right now. How many times in NFL history have you had two great teams repeatedly battle each other over a period of years for NFL supremacy? Pittsburgh and Oakland in the 1970's. Dallas and San Francisco in the 1990's. And now this. It's a big deal.

 

[Colin Dowling]

My point was not to discuss the merits of the Pats (although the comments have been great so far). I was trying to point out that the root of Patriot dislike has very little to do with the team and their performance and more to do with the fact that it seems much of the media behaves as if the rest of us are fools for not being on board with the Patriots greatness.

In other words, it bothers me to read that so many sportswriters DON'T find something interesting to write about the Pats. Instead, they fall back on the tired "How can you not love them?" angle.

 

[CalBear]

When the Yankees were winning in the late 90s, lots of people kept saying how can you hate on guys like Derek Jeter and Joe Torre, two great guys? Tino Martinez is a good guy, Paul O'Neil gave it 140%, Scott Brosius was gritty, Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera were incredible but humble, etc. That Yankees squad was almost entirely filled with players Yankees fans thought were good guys. You always heard them say "what's there to hate about any of the Yankees? They're all good people."

I think there was a lot of truth to that, but there was something to hate about the Yankees, and it made itself abundantly clear in the years since 1996: George freakin' Steinbrenner.

 

[Biabreakable]

I see. Well I agree it is annoying to read sportwriters watering down thier articles to please thier perceptions of a uninformed casual fan. Somthing most Patriots fans are not.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I think Marhsall Rob's post was very good explaining my point about the difference between the Yankees and the Patriots.

Compitition can only be measured when things are fair. I don't consider the Yankees success to be as significant as the Patriots because the Yankees allready have an unfair advantage by spending more for thier players than other teams can. That makes the Yankees victories more hollow I think and not the same in the sense of the spirit of compitition.

When I have nukes and you have catapults and I can buy your catapults its not as meaningful. I should be expected to win. And cheering for David vs. Goliath in that situation is understandable. But if we both have the same resources available but I beat you 8 times out of 10 that is a totaly different scenario. I can only respect your success and my competitive nature will cause me to keep trying harder to win knowing that you dont have an advantage over me. I think that is the core spirit of sports and compitition. Football has it baseball doesen't.

 

[Mister CIA]

I got over my Patriots dislike a few years ago when it became clear to me that it was silly to deny how well they played the game and how well the team was constructed and held up to change.

Go Spurs!

 

[Traders2001]

Pats are an overrated team with a good QB, that is all, and will be exposed this weekend as such. If Bledsoe didn't get knocked out in that game a few years back, we wouldn't be discussing this and BB would be another run of the mill coach like he was before Brady. Thank Tom Brady, awesome QB, for making this team what it is. I don't think that slow D will be able to keep up this weekend....

I thought Tom Brady was a product of the system?

I never said that chief, he's a great QB, probably the best....but the train stops tomorrow in Indy. (As long as you don't get another one handed to ya)

Be realistic Indy has no chance of beating NE until they add some character to the team ( They were lucky the first two game of the playoffs ) but Indy has zero leadership ( Manning is a loser , Harrison has nothing of a leader so no leadership or character leads to no super bowl ) the big difference between Manning and Brady is leadership.

 

[The Noid]

So, what’s the over/under on e-mails Simmons gets with comparisons to the Yankees/Sox ’04, with the Colts being the Red Sox and the Patriots blowing the big lead to the team they always dominated?

 

[Capella]

So, what’s the over/under on e-mails Simmons gets with comparisons to the Yankees/Sox ’04, with the Colts being the Red Sox and the Patriots blowing the big lead to the team they always dominated?

one millionguy is getting slammed today. guarantee it.

 

[djcolts]

So, what’s the over/under on e-mails Simmons gets with comparisons to the Yankees/Sox ’04, with the Colts being the Red Sox and the Patriots blowing the big lead to the team they always dominated?

I don't think it is that high. Most Indy fans don't care about baseball - except for some fans of the Reds and Cubs. So, it would probably most come from those that just want to tweak Simmons from outside of Indy. He'll get plenty of emails from Colts fans today telling him to stick in general, and probably 98% of the emails won't be particularly clever. On a semi-related note - he has his Ewing theory (teams make a run after their star is gone/injured), and he once wrote a column thinking that maybe the Colts would make a run without Manning at some point because of the "Ewing" theory. It could be that the "Ewing" theory is correct for the Colts if they win the next game - with Edge being Ewing in this case.

 

[djcolts]

There's only one guy I'm going to rub yesterday's victory on, and that's Bill Simmons. I wrote this (fairly tame, but still a tweak) as a comment on his latest column where he predicted a Bears victory (while his wife picked the Colts and beat him in football picks this year, which I find hysterical).

Super Bowl Championship T-Shirt: $20Super Bowl Championship Cap: $30Peyton ("A-Rod of the NFL") Manning, Joseph ("He's not nearly as good Maroney") Addai and Indianapolis Colts winning Super Bowl XLI and sticking it to Bill Simmons: PRICELESS!!!!!!!

He better be eating some major crow this week, and I'm sure it tastes awful to him. I guess he only has A-Rod to pick on now.