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Really guys? (1 Viewer)

Elliot.Muldoon

Footballguy
I started reading the Week 3 Fanduel Million recap last night and thought something seemed a little odd...so I went back and checked the previous weeks' recaps and wow. Not even trying. FBG and the DFS industry in general must have a really low opinion of the intelligence of its users. I've spent the last several weeks trying to convince my programmer, math-infested mind that Fanduel is not as full of cheating bots as it appears to be, but this just takes the cake. Just take a look at these paragraphs from the recaps from Weeks 3, 2 and 1...

With a contest that has 229,885 entries it is hard to believe that cookies248's team could win by 6.48 points over 2nd place haskele. That is a very impressive feat in such a big entry GPP. To do that cookies248 had to really have a unique lineup with some highly under owned players in it. Let's take a look at his lineup and what percentage made up his team.
With a contest that has 215,385 entries it is hard to believe that jeremiah1974db's team could win by 8.60 points over 2nd place quinny418. That is a very impressive feat in such a big entry GPP. To do that jeremiah1974db had to really have a unique lineup with some highly under owned players in it. Let's take a look at his lineup and what percentage made up his team.
With a contest that has 168,162 entries it is hard to believe that jeremybronson's team could win by 12.22 points over 2nd place jeepers77. That is a very impressive feat in such a big entry GPP. To do that jeremybronson had to really have a unique lineup with some highly under owned players in it. Let's take a look at his lineup and what percentage made up his team.
Yeah, it's "hard to believe" because it's statistically impossible that these big win margins would happen on a regular basis, but apparently FBG (or perhaps the representative from their premium advertising partner Fanduel sending them this copy?) is so convinced it will always happen this way that they are just copying and pasting the same analysis every week and not even bothering to remark upon this odd impossible coincidence. This is not the result of a real human picking a lineup they think will win the contest. In a contest with hundreds of thousands of entries with most users likely to pick similar cores of players even while diversifying at other positions, you would almost always see a very low margin of victory, which you see for yourself even in smaller contests. If these were real human winners we would see margins of victory < 1 point on a regular basis, like we see separating positions 3 and lower every week. But somehow there is always 1 boringly-named user who magically manages to pull far, far ahead with a lineup no one in their right mind would put money on unless they were so rich they could afford to diversify through hundreds of different rosters...

or unless they were using house your money to fund the entry. There is literally nothing stopping Fanduel from creating thousands and thousands of bot users for big GPPs and having them set lineups on Monday night to pick the best, least-owned players from Sunday plus a wide array of potential stars from the Monday night game. Literally nothing. No one is checking 229,885 rosters to make sure they don't change after Sunday. No one possibly could.

I invite Fanduel and/or FBG to explain this deeply improbable occurrence and offer any proof whatsoever that real human people win the Fanduel Million or any other high-value prize on a regular basis. And no, transcripted interviews on a website are not proof, especially when the lessons they appear to teach amount to "pour your money into lots of different crazy lineups that have 0.0000001% chance of hitting, so all your money will belong to us!". I would gladly welcome being proven wrong on this matter because I would like to be able to invest money into DFS with a clear heart, but at this point I doubt that's possible. It's more likely this thread will be removed and/or my account will be deleted.

And just to reply to the inevitable "you're just mad because you didn't win"-type comment, I was not in this contest...I am primarily a player of the other kind of fantasy football and have basically only dabbled in 50/50 leagues up to this point. Even there I saw some things that just don't pass the smell test in regards to everything from statistical patterns to bizarre username homogeny. And the more I look into it, the worse it gets. Feel free to keep buying into the dream if it makes you happy, but please be aware there's a very real possibility that all you're buying into is the furthered wealth of some very clever bastards.

 
Can you share your analysis as to how this is statistically impossible? As someone with a job based in math and stats I would be interested to see it.

 
If they were going to rig the contest, why would they do so in a way that would be statistically improbable (just assuming for the moment that premise is true)? You sound like the kind of person that really enjoys 9/11 YouTube vids, anti-vax conspiracy, white flags, etc. etc. Listen to Alex Jones much?

Also this part is not true:


But somehow there is always 1 boringly-named user who magically manages to pull far, far ahead with a lineup no one in their right mind would put money on unless they were so rich they could afford to diversify through hundreds of different rosters...
Last week you were complaining about outliers like Travis Benjamin. This week's roster's near the top were actually pretty chalk, with lots of Cam, Olsen, Julio, AJG, Freeman, Gostkowski and Seattle. Nothing crazy there.

I will admit that "article" by Brimacombe is pretty basic, with just copying in the names and scores and keeping the article the same: "Team X Scored Y Points with Players A, B, C" etc. It's basically just regurgitating the roster composition of the top entries in paragraph format.

Why no discussion of the various cut lines week to week? I would prefer more analysis of the best stacks (and the worst that appeared to be good plays in advance), or more analysis of roster trends, more how the "chalk" cash plays fared, where the crowd was right and where the crowd was wrong. There's more content here if they put some effort into it. I assume it's more difficult to do more analysis than just "here are the top 5 teams, and here are the players on those teams, who scored this many points. Then here's a LINK to Fanduel." It doesn't really strike me as an article worth premium content, but could be improved with a little more digging.

 
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What does Football guys have to do with this conspiracy? Im confused about alot of things, but why you think someone with no association with Fanduel would "explain" their weekly contest winners is far and away the craziest.

 
If these were real human winners we would see margins of victory < 1 point on a regular basis, like we see separating positions 3 and lower every week.
Footballguys Subscriber Contest margin of victory:

2014 11 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2014/week-16.php)

2013 23 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2013/week-16.php)

2012 25 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2012/week-16.php)

2011 20 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2011/week-16.php)

2010 23 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2010/week-16.php)

etc...

Does this suggest that FBG is rigging their subscriber contest, too?

 
If these were real human winners we would see margins of victory < 1 point on a regular basis, like we see separating positions 3 and lower every week.
Footballguys Subscriber Contest margin of victory:

2014 11 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2014/week-16.php)

2013 23 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2013/week-16.php)

2012 25 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2012/week-16.php)

2011 20 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2011/week-16.php)

2010 23 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2010/week-16.php)

etc...

Does this suggest that FBG is rigging their subscriber contest, too?
Of course.. I won a T-shirt the first year and since then Nothing!! It HAS to be rigged..

:ptts:

 
If these were real human winners we would see margins of victory < 1 point on a regular basis, like we see separating positions 3 and lower every week.
Footballguys Subscriber Contest margin of victory:

2014 11 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2014/week-16.php)

2013 23 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2013/week-16.php)

2012 25 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2012/week-16.php)

2011 20 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2011/week-16.php)

2010 23 points (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/contest/2010/week-16.php)

etc...

Does this suggest that FBG is rigging their subscriber contest, too?
to be fair the sample size of 250 is significantly smaller than ~200,000, and the contest is cumulative over 3 weeks right?

 
:lmao: I love the "generic user name" argument.

<------ some of us are simply not that creative when picking a user name. :oldunsure:

 
sdp1226 said:
:lmao: I love the "generic user name" argument.

<------ some of us are simply not that creative when picking a user name. :oldunsure:
I was a little surprised when "FanduelBot765" won several tournaments.

 
I think you guys are focusing on the paranoia and loose connection made to FBG, and not something that could certainly be the case:

There is literally nothing stopping Fanduel from creating thousands and thousands of bot users for big GPPs and having them set lineups on Monday night to pick the best, least-owned players from Sunday plus a wide array of potential stars from the Monday night game. Literally nothing. No one is checking 229,885 rosters to make sure they don't change after Sunday. No one possibly could.
It's possible that the DFS sites are entering their own lineups to skim prize money. Either with simple shill entries that cash a certain percentage or more nefarious methods like swapping players during games. This happened with online poker in a similar way with Paradise and UB. It's certainly possible and I hope the DFS sites are being audited or will be audited somehow.

 
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Oh man, this thread is already completely useless so hijacking it isnt even possible, but did you see yesterday apparently there were something like 40,000 women on AshleyMadison all sharing 6 company email addresses. They belong in jail for fraud, but my god the vision those shady bastards had.

 
um what exactly is the argument here? Fanduel is rigged because FBG uses a templated paragraph to recap the tournament?

 
So how does the free $100 game work? Why don't they just credit you $100?
Because a slot in a game doesn't really cost them $100, unless (a) the contest would have filled anyway and (b) that person who missed out won't play that $100 somewhere else.

 
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Tennessee_ATO said:
Sabertooth said:
So how does the free $100 game work? Why don't they just credit you $100?
Because a slot in a game doesn't really cost them $100, unless (a) the contest would have filled anyway and (b) that person who missed out won't play that $100 somewhere else.
Exactly, its treated as funny money. Which it is. Same thing Party Poker did. They sat schills using digital buy-ins that weren't backed up by actual cash.

 
One thing to keep in mind is Fanduel is a British company, Draftkings is US. Not that the UK doesnt have strict gambling laws themselves, but if anything funny is going on with one of the big companies its likely to be Fanduel for that reason.

 
Tennessee_ATO said:
Sabertooth said:
So how does the free $100 game work? Why don't they just credit you $100?
Because a slot in a game doesn't really cost them $100, unless (a) the contest would have filled anyway and (b) that person who missed out won't play that $100 somewhere else.
Exactly, its treated as funny money. Which it is. Same thing Party Poker did. They sat schills using digital buy-ins that weren't backed up by actual cash.
But that makes no sense. FD is paying out what it's paying out. The only way "schills using digital buy-ins that aren't back up by actual cash" makes any sense is if they win money. The only way they don't hurt FD is if they take seats that weren't filled (i.e. would have been overlays).

 
The reason is makes sense, theoretically, is that every bot they sit, and no cost to themselves, that cashes is money they dont have to pay out.

 
The reason is makes sense, theoretically, is that every bot they sit, and no cost to themselves, that cashes is money they dont have to pay out.
But it has to cash. Each one that they sit that doesn't cash costs them money. Payouts are fixed, unlike online poker.

 
In a guaranteed tournament they have to payout the full prize whether the contest is full or half full. Thats the whole point of hunting for overlay. They may have to "pay" to enter the tournament, but theyre the house, so theyre paying themselves to sit at the table, it doesnt cost them anything to do it.

 
In a guaranteed tournament they have to payout the full prize whether the contest is full or half full. Thats the whole point of hunting for overlay. They may have to "pay" to enter the tournament, but theyre the house, so theyre paying themselves to sit at the table, it doesnt cost them anything to do it.
True, but the best value is to fill it. As I said, they only provide value if no one is going to otherwise fill those seats.

 
Thats what people are saying, and Im still dubious they are actually doing it. Multiple screen grabs of a person with 2 entries in single entry GPPs is concerning though. Frankly its fraud on Fanduels part regardless of whether its a computer error or not. If Fanduel is offering a tournament they have a legal obligation to honor the terms of their own contest rules

 
Thats what people are saying, and Im still dubious they are actually doing it. Multiple screen grabs of a person with 2 entries in single entry GPPs is concerning though. Frankly its fraud on Fanduels part regardless of whether its a computer error or not. If Fanduel is offering a tournament they have a legal obligation to honor the terms of their own contest rules
Link?

You've seen screenshots of live single entry GPP with users having multiple entries?

 
Thats what people are saying, and Im still dubious they are actually doing it. Multiple screen grabs of a person with 2 entries in single entry GPPs is concerning though. Frankly its fraud on Fanduels part regardless of whether its a computer error or not. If Fanduel is offering a tournament they have a legal obligation to honor the terms of their own contest rules
Link?

You've seen screenshots of live single entry GPP with users having multiple entries?
Post #27 above. FD gave anyone who was entered a $100 contest entry if they wanted it.

 
Thats what people are saying, and Im still dubious they are actually doing it. Multiple screen grabs of a person with 2 entries in single entry GPPs is concerning though. Frankly its fraud on Fanduels part regardless of whether its a computer error or not. If Fanduel is offering a tournament they have a legal obligation to honor the terms of their own contest rules
Nah, "fraud" requires some intent. A computer glitch isn't fraud by definition. Is it a bad screw-up that calls into questions their controls? Absolutely. That's not "fraud" though.

 
Thats what people are saying, and Im still dubious they are actually doing it. Multiple screen grabs of a person with 2 entries in single entry GPPs is concerning though. Frankly its fraud on Fanduels part regardless of whether its a computer error or not. If Fanduel is offering a tournament they have a legal obligation to honor the terms of their own contest rules
Nah, "fraud" requires some intent. A computer glitch isn't fraud by definition. Is it a bad screw-up that calls into questions their controls? Absolutely. That's not "fraud" though.
And Im sure thats the argument that Fanduel would make. The problem with that argument is that they were made aware of the "glitch", from what I can tell of the screen grabs, both before and during the effected contests. Especially with the contest they were aware of atleast 2 days before hand, the only acceptable response is to void double entries, or to cancel the contest entirely, any other response is fraud. If they didnt they were hoping people wouldnt find out, it wouldnt effect their rake, and they would allow people to enter a contest they knew to have been compromised. I have no idea what they did end up doing though, hopefully they did the right thing.

The contest that had started is definitely a much greyer area.

 
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Were talking with imperfect information. Its a safe assumption that if someone took a screengrab of a compromised Thursday contest on a Tuesday, they didnt wait until Friday tweet that image to Fanduel. If thats not the case it obviously changes things.

 
Thats what people are saying, and Im still dubious they are actually doing it. Multiple screen grabs of a person with 2 entries in single entry GPPs is concerning though. Frankly its fraud on Fanduels part regardless of whether its a computer error or not. If Fanduel is offering a tournament they have a legal obligation to honor the terms of their own contest rules
Link?

You've seen screenshots of live single entry GPP with users having multiple entries?
Post #27 above. FD gave anyone who was entered a $100 contest entry if they wanted it.
Oh, yeah, that's pretty shady.

 

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