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Realtors / Real Estate agents (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Steeler
- Start date
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
I guess this might vary among states, but in CT, my lawyer walked me through all the paperwork. By 'walk', I mean that he pretty much told me where to sign.There are some uses for a good realtor, but unfortunately, most seem to care more about closing a sale than protecting your interests.
Maude
Footballguy
If you are buying a property, it will not cost you anything to have an agent. At least in most cases, commissions are paid by the seller.And FWIW, good agents do more than show houses. They market properties, research properties, provide market analyses, deal with other agents, negotiate contracts and repairs, schedule inspections and appraisals, provide financial information, and oversee title companies and closings, just to name a few.Steeler said:
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Garrett
Footballguy
I am guessing there might be a lot of regional variations on what is required, but in my experience the title company handles all the paperwork. I sold my last house without a realtor. A simple purchase agreement is something I can handle on my own, beyond that, you are going to pay the fee to the title company for the closing with or without a realtor.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
People have the impression that they'd have to find out so much information and acquire so many different documents that they consider it a daunting task that they'd rather just pay someone to take care of. When you consider how much you're paying these realtors (6% of 300,000 is $18,000 !!!!), you'd be much better off paying atitle company a few hundred.Realtors have just been the norm for so long that people accept the fact that they need them.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
That and the NAR is a powerful lobby. They are going the way of the way of many business models in the past that tried to lobby for rent seeking laws instead of competing when their model started to fail.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Exactly.
fsword
Footballguy
Assuming by the use of "realtor", you are speaking residential only. You don't need a realtor, but a good realtor can add value to your transaction in a varoety of ways.If you are speaking in commercial terms, a good Broker is essential for any transaction beyond the sale of a simple structure.Like any other profession, the key is getting a "good" professsional instead of settling for an overpriced tour guide.Steeler said:
pretty simple really
If you're buying a house, you don't really need one, but they don't cost anything, so not much harm involved so long as you keep in mind that your agent may not necessarily have your best interest in mind, rather may try to steer you a house where they get a better commission. When I purchased, I used one, however we did all the legwork ourselves, and just had our agent setup appointments for viewings.
Selling a house takes time. If you're doing it yourself, you need to market the house, be available for someone to see the house, get all the paperwork lined up, etc... Most people have day jobs, thus a fee should be paid for the time you save by having someone else do this work for you. Negotiate the best fee you can before you sign with a listing agent and there you go. If you feel that you can do it better yourself, go for it. One key advantage that agents have is the MLS.
g'luck
If you're buying a house, you don't really need one, but they don't cost anything, so not much harm involved so long as you keep in mind that your agent may not necessarily have your best interest in mind, rather may try to steer you a house where they get a better commission. When I purchased, I used one, however we did all the legwork ourselves, and just had our agent setup appointments for viewings.
Selling a house takes time. If you're doing it yourself, you need to market the house, be available for someone to see the house, get all the paperwork lined up, etc... Most people have day jobs, thus a fee should be paid for the time you save by having someone else do this work for you. Negotiate the best fee you can before you sign with a listing agent and there you go. If you feel that you can do it better yourself, go for it. One key advantage that agents have is the MLS.
g'luck
spOOfy
Footballguy
A good realtor will (should) adjust the % based on your listing price though. When I was pricing out realtors, I had several tell me that it depended on what we would sell my house for what the % would be.Anyway, I am currently selling a house and am extremely glad I have a realtor. It's the house left in an estate. I live hours from the house and there have been tons of problems. All of which my realtor has handled. And looking at her current houses on the market, this house is the lowest price one she has and she's busting her ###.I've bought 2, and sold 1. And am now selling this other. For the bought 2 and sold 1, I had my godfather as my realtor, so obviously that was a pleasant experience and the price was severely reduced.
And now this 1 is with someone I basically picked out of a hat and called. She has been phenomal with it.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
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Garrett
Footballguy
Not to mention that you are going to pay the title company their fee either way; it is just part of your closing costs. I think some realtors act like they are handling the closing, but in reality it is just a hand off to the title company that you pay for.Even as a buyer, your offer is more attractive without a realtor acting as your agent. If a realtor listing a home has 5 offers and on one of them they will make basically double commission because they are the only agent involved, they have an obvious incentive to at least bring that offer to the table first. That is of course something they would never acknowledge. I am sure there are some great realtors who would never even consider that, but I am equally confident there are others who would.
ODoyleRules
Footballguy
nice summary. While realtors do provide some value, I think they generally earn more than they deserve.I've been told that realtors don't like working deals where there's no agent working the other side. They end up doing more work, because the buyer or seller on the other side ends up calling them every time they have a question. On top of that, it's more likely that a closing will fall through because an inexperienced person missed something that a realtor would have caught.
17seconds
root of all aliai
I must have a very good realtor.
I'm the kind of guy who would NEVER use a travel agent. If I see a full serve gas station I risk running out of gas before stopping there. I like doing everything myself. The realtor I use is not a sales type of guy at all. More of an expert of 25+ years in my area who really knows houses, negotiations, law, etc... I would say he was much better for me on the buying side than the selling side though.
I'm the kind of guy who would NEVER use a travel agent. If I see a full serve gas station I risk running out of gas before stopping there. I like doing everything myself. The realtor I use is not a sales type of guy at all. More of an expert of 25+ years in my area who really knows houses, negotiations, law, etc... I would say he was much better for me on the buying side than the selling side though.
culdeus
Footballguy
http://www.nxtrealtycf.org/fullservice.htm
This is the type of thing I expect to catch on. Flat fee regardless of the cost of the house.
This is the type of thing I expect to catch on. Flat fee regardless of the cost of the house.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Real estate agents have done a great job of making themselves seem like a necessity via the MLS. Most sellers would rather skip the agent, but for a buyer, there's no downside to using an agent and with most buyers going through an agent, the only way to gain access to the buyers is to get in the MLS.
So much of the info. that people would need to be able to make informed decisions lies within the MLS. You can check public records, but they are often shoddy and hard to do targeted searches with.
Until that's changed, realtors are necessary for most people.
For some, if they can find the right buyer and agree on a fair price, paying a lawyer and/or a closing agent to help with the paperwork is much cheaper.
So much of the info. that people would need to be able to make informed decisions lies within the MLS. You can check public records, but they are often shoddy and hard to do targeted searches with.
Until that's changed, realtors are necessary for most people.
For some, if they can find the right buyer and agree on a fair price, paying a lawyer and/or a closing agent to help with the paperwork is much cheaper.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
One of the problems with flat-fee/discount brokers is they don't include the buyer agent % (and maybe imply that it's not necessary). Same with negotiating for a reduced %, it's generally a mistake to offer anything less than 3% on the buyer side, esp. in a buyer's market.
The main reason to pay for any agent is the access they have to the MLS and the agents with buyers. It may not be right, but many agents will not be in a hurry to show a home with less than 3% when there are a bunch of other options.
The $ "saved" with a discount agent or getting a reduced fee really doesn't matter if the home doesn't sell.
Balance
Footballguy
I used a website about 4 years ago to sell my first house... forget which.Paid $350 for MLS listing and a yard sign. I gave them my availability and they scheduled showings with interested agents, and reviewed all paperwork.
Negotiated with the buyer agent directly for $2500 (less than 1.5% of my first home). Sold house in 32 days.
I did use an agent to buy my current house, but won't next time.
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Garrett
Footballguy
http://www.mentorlisting.com/Get the same MLS listing everyone gets with a standard realtor.
Specify the percentage given to any buyers agents (just make it the local standard).
Worst case you pay half commission and the $399 listing fee, even better if a buyer approaches you directly and you only pay the flat fee.
I agree with your sentiment that if you are listing on MLS and not offering the standard fee to buyers agents you are making a mistake because they will just ignore the listing and focus on those paying the local standard percentage for buyers.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
The link shows that the flat-fee covers the sellers fee only. You have the choice to offer 2-3% as a buyers commission.
whitem0nkey
Footballguy
Garrett
Footballguy
For the same reason athletes and actors have personal chefs, housekeepers, and private child care.They are rich.
Seems to work well for our tax code.
I hear this often and am surprised more people do hop into the fray. It's easy work, more money than you deserve, and the entry hurdle into the field is low.
20% of the realtors do 80% of the business.I hear this often and am surprised more people do hop into the fray. It's easy work, more money than you deserve, and the entry hurdle into the field is low.nice summary. While realtors do provide some value, I think they generally earn more than they deserve.
Mr. Yuk
Footballguy
So when you sell without a realtor and people come to look at it, do you basically just meet people at the door and show them around the house?
fissure man
Footballguy
I have been in the real estate industry as a home inspector for about 8 years and this is so true.I also have a real estate license, as does my wife. The good agents are well worth every penny. The majority of them are simply horrible. The problem is it's pretty easy to get into and there aren't exuberant costs in maintaining a license. The criteria to get your licensed should be completely revamped. During the class they teach you everything but how to do your job. IMHO, if you're seeking a good agent the single biggest thing you should look for is somebody who is brutally honest. Far too many agents try and tip toe around issues instead of taking them head on. Somebody who is organized and responsible are also important. Far too many agents forget to cover their bases. If I had a $1 for every time i arrive to a property, only to find out the electricity isn't on, or the sellers didn't know we were coming, ect.. I would have tripled my income.To answer the question, yes they are well worth it, provided they don't suck.
fissure man
Footballguy
You can also have a lock box with a combo. Unfortunately the caveat to that is you can't keep track of who entered and when like the more modern electronic key boxes do.
fissure man
Footballguy
THIS. Most people don't have the common sense to maneuver out of a parking lot, much less handle buying/selling a house.
newteech
Footballguy
As a buyer, does this site list all the available properties on the MLS?
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
As far as I can tell. You can register for free, without being an actual buyer. You'll get email from your ZipAgent, but you can ignore it or respond, or whatever.
proninja
Footballguy
The simple answer is that it totally depends on your situation and your realtor.
A bad real estate agent is pretty worthless. They don't do much good for anybody. A good real estate agent can be worth far more than the cost of not doing business with them.
It also depends on the person and the house. If you know the exact neighborhood you want to buy in, you've been following homes there for a few years, keep in touch with market trends, and have the savvy to do research online, you can absolutely save money by not using a realtor. Most people aren't that savvy. Unfortunately, the people that aren't as savvy have a tendency to end up with the realtors who aren't as savvy, but those people aren't savvy enough to realize it, so I guess it all works out.
If you're new to an area, buying for the first few times, don't know exactly what you're looking for, and all that - I'd definitely use a realtor. Also, if you decide not to use a realtor, please hire a real estate attorney to help you with the contract. A few hundred bucks an hour for a RE attorney can save your ###.
A bad real estate agent is pretty worthless. They don't do much good for anybody. A good real estate agent can be worth far more than the cost of not doing business with them.
It also depends on the person and the house. If you know the exact neighborhood you want to buy in, you've been following homes there for a few years, keep in touch with market trends, and have the savvy to do research online, you can absolutely save money by not using a realtor. Most people aren't that savvy. Unfortunately, the people that aren't as savvy have a tendency to end up with the realtors who aren't as savvy, but those people aren't savvy enough to realize it, so I guess it all works out.
If you're new to an area, buying for the first few times, don't know exactly what you're looking for, and all that - I'd definitely use a realtor. Also, if you decide not to use a realtor, please hire a real estate attorney to help you with the contract. A few hundred bucks an hour for a RE attorney can save your ###.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
That's how we did it. My mother worked for an attorney at the time, so I had him handle all of the paperwork. Negotiated the deal at the kitchen table and closed at the attorney's office. It's not rocket science.
beavers
Footballguy
I too, purchased a home without a realtor. In fact, this was my first home ever purchased and was able to get through it by researching the internet. I save a ton of money by avoiding a realtor. IMO, why buy from the middle man when you can go directly to the supplier for much less money? And like CE said, if you don't have the time, that's about the only time I'd say realtors are worth something.
Maude
Footballguy
Do you realize that as a buyer, you do not pay the realtor? The only way you might save money is if the seller does not use an agent either. Is this what you did?I too, purchased a home without a realtor. In fact, this was my first home ever purchased and was able to get through it by researching the internet. I save a ton of money by avoiding a realtor. IMO, why buy from the middle man when you can go directly to the supplier for much less money? And like CE said, if you don't have the time, that's about the only time I'd say realtors are worth something.
beavers
Footballguy
This is a huge misconception IMO. It's the buyer who is bringing the money to the table, not the seller. The seller advertised his house in Craigslist. I called the seller directly and he had two prices, one for working with a realtor and one without. Since I responded to his ad directly, neither of us used a realtor. Well, actually, the seller paid a flat $500 fee to his realtor to write up the contract etc. Other than that, no commission money was paid to a realtor.Do you realize that as a buyer, you do not pay the realtor? The only way you might save money is if the seller does not use an agent either. Is this what you did?
ETA: One point I'd like to add is when you buy directly from a seller (a FSBO) without a realtor, make sure you adjust your price when determining the market value to comparables in the neighborhood. For example, if house A, B, and C sold for an average of $92 per sq ft, then your home that you're buying should not compare dollar for dollar on that price. The price per sq should be lower on a FSBO because more often than not, that $92 includes realtor commissions.
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Orange&Blue
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
redfin.com. Changing the real estate game. My realtor just went to work for them. You get part of the commission back when you buy through them. The agent only gets paid if the receive a positive review from you. And all the mls info is on their website. Probably will do to the RE business what e-trade et al did for trading. You do the research, you pay less.
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