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This exchange is kind of funny. I saw Schilling almost toss a no hitter against the Giants in the mid 1990s until one out in the 9th, when Bonds took him deep off the face of the upper deck at Candlestick. Bonds went on to walk in the 11th, steal second, go to third on a grounder and score the winning run on a sac fly. My buddy at the game said "I don't care what they pay him, it's not enough." Then I played hooky to see Shilling's game against the A's two weeks back. So I have seen the guy lose two no hitters in the ninth!Finless said:
I tend to agree. I find it hard to believe I guy with his ego ever gets mentally messed up. His current problems seem to be more along the lines of arm fatigue a la Pedro. Must be that dirty water.
You are truly the most clueless baseball fan on this site. Why would a team give away its top prospect and a 5/75 extension for a starter who is at best a #3 on Boston's rotation?
I was surprised to read Buerhle is only 28 years old. Just entering his pitching prime age.
In the next five years do you think he'd still be just the #3 in that rotation? I would put him on par with Beckett as co #1's. Schilling is old. Buehlre is only 28.
Red, I usually agree with you but definately not here.Don't forget Daisuske is in the mix too and he is bound to get better.Buerhle gave up a lot of home runs last year, he doesn't strike a ton of guys out, I don't think this guy is ever going to be any better than he is right now and I think he even wears down in the second half this year.I think he will be a solid NL pitcher but no way is he co #1 on Boston.
Do you mean Torrez? He of Bucky Dent fame?soft tossing lefty at Fenway?
I'll pass. As a Red Sox fan, I'm fairly happy with our rotation (save Tavarez) but I'd rather not deal a solid prospect for Buerhle. Bruce Hurst is about the only soft tossing lefty that comes to mind that was any bit successful in recent memory. All their studs (Pedro, Clemens, Schilling, Beckett, Oil Can, Torres)....righties
based on what?
Based on the fact that this is his first year pitching in MLB.Beckett had a rough first time around in the AL too, I see he has turned it around.
Sure, but at the same time weren't people saying that the fact the hitters have never seen him (or really anybody like him) was going to be a big advantage for him the first time through?I've seen him enough to think he'll be pretty good, but I'm not sure yet that he's going to be an elite/Cy Young sort of a pitcher.
How many rookie pitchers come in and dominate? It doesn't happen very often, there is a learning curve.I don't doubt for a second he is going to be better next year.
I dunno...Papelbon? Verlander? That's two from last year alone.
I know you don't.
Weaver, K-rod, Hamels, Kazmir (from a few years ago), Gallardo and Lincecum have had their games so far, Oswalt, Sabathia, Prior before his arm blew out, Willis, Webb, Lidge, Street, and Liriano from last year. In any case, pitchers have been able to step up recently and dominate (BP actually has done research and found that a guy's stuff is pretty well developed by 22-3, so unless there are injuries involved there's a good chance they either have "it" and will end up being a #1 or 2 or stud RP, or they don't).Plus its not like Matsuzaka has been horrible. He does have a 4.01 ERA so far and is averaging a K/IP. His WHIP is a little high, but he's been able to contain HRs. Like JTC said his only real problem is a wild inning here and there.I dunno...Papelbon? Verlander? That's two from last year alone.I know you don't.
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Oh come on...Beckett. Sure... One 200IP season. When was it? Last year. Let's look at the trends: 24, 107, 142, 156, 178, 204. I see see a pattern... do you? Yes... Beckett used to have serious blister problems when in Florida. Yes, Beckett will continue to be affected by blisters as long as he has the skin condition he's affected by (forever), and as long as he continues to throw that devistating curve of his. That said he's obviously learning how to avoid incidents with the finger. With Schilling you manipulated numbers with "Since in Boston" to support your arguement so I'll do the same here. Since in Boston (where they started a new treatment used by Sox itchers with similar skin conditions in the past), Beckett has averaged over 200IP a season. Small sample size? Of course... but so is the Schilling comment you made. Point is this.. Beckett will occationallly miss a start or two due to blisters/avulsions... but the perception of him as a fragle SP who will spend a lot of time on the DL is either grounded in ignorance or wishful thinking. Knock on wood but the kids' arm (and overall body) has been solid as can be, To have a kid of this caliber ready to spend his prime in Boston... and carrying a caveat of "maybe missing a couple starts a year due to blisters"? I'll take it.amphibianbri said:
Never said he was horrible. Just not sure he has the upside everybody thought a few months back.Sammy3469 said:Weaver, K-rod, Hamels, Kazmir (from a few years ago), Gallardo and Lincecum have had their games so far, Oswalt, Sabathia, Prior before his arm blew out, Willis, Webb, Lidge, Street, and Liriano from last year. In any case, pitchers have been able to step up recently and dominate (BP actually has done research and found that a guy's stuff is pretty well developed by 22-3, so unless there are injuries involved there's a good chance they either have "it" and will end up being a #1 or 2 or stud RP, or they don't).Plus its not like Matsuzaka has been horrible. He does have a 4.01 ERA so far and is averaging a K/IP. His WHIP is a little high, but he's been able to contain HRs. Like JTC said his only real problem is a wild inning here and there.Capella said:I dunno...Papelbon? Verlander? That's two from last year alone.Jefferson the Caregiver said:I know you don't.
I don't see anyone saying that Buerhle isn't a decent pitcher. It's just the Red Sox probably don't need him, and if I were there GM, I would not want to send a highly regarded prospect for a pitcher about to enter free agency. 5 years - $75 million is big money for a guy that had an ERA around 5 just last year. Someone else said he had an ERA under 4.00 at Fenway, but didn't give me career games at Fenway, which is always a bit misleading. Was that ERA over 4 or 5 liftetime starts?Buerhle is not like Maddux. Career BA against Buerhle is .266. His career WHIP is 1.25. Guys get on base against him, he just has a propensity not to allow runners to score. That is nice, but he is a lot closer to Glavine if anyone (their strikeout rates are almost identical). Bringing him to the AL East is not doing him any favors, nor is bringing him to a right handed hitter friendly park.Fact is, the Red Sox have the best record in baseball right now. It would be nice to get another starter, but if I'm dealing a top prospect, I want someone I get more than half a season out of, or someone who can dominate every start. The Astros were in a similar situation a few years ago and got Randy Johnson for half a year and gave up some quality prospects (I believe Carlos Guillen was one of them). That is a spot I'd shoot for if I were the Red Sox. If Florida decides to deal Dontrelle Willis and I can keep him for a few years, I'd like that.amphibianbri said:
I believe there is a good chance the Yankees will be bidding for Ichiro's services next year with Damon coming up lame and Andruw Jones having an off year. Sox will be in the running but "booking it" is a bit much .Though Ichiro in CF and hitting leadoff would be sick. Plus he could hang with Dice and Okajima. I would be our own little *** gang.
I dont understand why nobody ever mentions Ichiro to the Yankees. They certainly have the need in the OF and Ichiro certainly fits the bill of what theyre looking for.
Didnt see your post before I posted. I think Ichiro to the Yanks makes alot of sense. An OF of Matsui, Cabrera, Ichiro with Damon at DH would be OK by me.
No chance.
I think that would be a great move for the Red Sox. Give up 3 prospects that may or may not pan out. Lester and Gabbard are not considered stud prospects probably just below that and Ellsbury according to Sox fans in this thread is considered a top prospect but who knows how he will pan out. Plus good OFers are a dime a dozen. With their pitching staff they can live with a Crisp in CF. If they can get Buehrle without giving up Buckholtz theyd be stupid not to do it (as long as they can sign him to an extension).
Either way Ichiro stands to make a LOT of money starting next year.....
