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Redskins starting QB? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gbill2004
- Start date
sihaokills
Footballguy
I say John Beck
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'm in the Beck camp as well.
Manster
Footballguy
:X I'm sorry, but that team is junk.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Yes it is ridiculous to try to decide who to keep as your 3rd string qb and 16th man in a 16 team, 16 man roster, 23 year old dynasty league. Thank you for pointing out that the Redskins qb will have no value this year and therefore reminding me to never click on threads that are not clearly marked "Dynasty" in the title. On a side note, good luck winning the lunch of your choice from your coworkers in your 6 team free office league. I am sure you are a lock to win since you are able to clearly identify that Beck and Grossman are not top tier quartebacks.GB
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That wasn't the question. Sorry, I didn't realize you don't know how to read...
The Comedian
Footballguy
I believe the correct answer to this question is "LOL."
It's only a hunch, but I'm going to say Kyle Orton is Washington's starting QB this year. Daniel Synder is a free spender with a win now mentality. He has to be pissed thinking about either Beck or Grossman starting. Unless he's in the "Suck for Luck" derby.
I would take Grossman over Beck though.
I would take Grossman over Beck though.
loose circuits
Footballguy
not like QB's have never came out of the woodwork before. The Fitz v Edwards battle from last year rings a bell
adrenaline
Footballguy
Rex
dgreen
Footballguy
I think it will be Rex. As for whether it's relevant or not, I'll point out that in three starts last year Rex put up 840 yards and 7 TDs. Yes, it's a small sample size, but he did produce (fantasy-wise) when he played. He knows Kyle Shanahan's offense. Of course, I'd never predict that kind of pace over 16 games, but I don't think it's out of the question for him to be a QB2 in 12-team leagues. He's right on that line if he's the starter.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I play in a 2QB dynasty where I'm actively hoarding QBs. I think it will be Beck, but both guys are available on the wire so this thread is definitely relevant.
DoubleG
Footballguy
But see? That's a different question. In a dynasty league, Beck clearly has more upside - for one he's younger and for two Rex has shown he is a capable, but not very consistant starter (i.e. Beck's upside is much higher). The question seemed to be related to this year. Honestly, given the way the Shanny-fest operated last year, I'd say Beck (only because it makes a little less sense - Shanny always tries to prove he's genius by doing something whack.) Beck is probably the future (albiet a short-term one).
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Both QBs are 30.
scoobygang
Footballguy
Redskins finished 8th in passing yards per game last year. Yes, they were probably much closer to middle of the pack on a per play basis, and they were among the most sacked teams in the league. But the passing game kind of worked even with pretty awful QB play (and a very thin receiving corps that looks improved this year).
My guess is that it's mostly Grossman, as most of the hype on Beck seems to be centered on everything except being able to actually complete passes. Rex Grossman in Kyle Shanahan's system is a somewhat productive NFL QB. Probably in line with Jason Campbell's last two seasons in Washington. Not a keeper (and not good enough to elevate a bad team), but not Derek Anderson. Grossman will have his share of stinkers, and he always has, and I imagine Beck will get a start or two. I don't expect Beck to make more of those starts than Rex.
I also don't think the Redskins will be close to winning the Andrew Luck lottery, and I'm usually more pessimistic than most Redskins fans. Their defense literally HAS to be better than last year. It would be impossible to be worse.
My guess is that it's mostly Grossman, as most of the hype on Beck seems to be centered on everything except being able to actually complete passes. Rex Grossman in Kyle Shanahan's system is a somewhat productive NFL QB. Probably in line with Jason Campbell's last two seasons in Washington. Not a keeper (and not good enough to elevate a bad team), but not Derek Anderson. Grossman will have his share of stinkers, and he always has, and I imagine Beck will get a start or two. I don't expect Beck to make more of those starts than Rex.
I also don't think the Redskins will be close to winning the Andrew Luck lottery, and I'm usually more pessimistic than most Redskins fans. Their defense literally HAS to be better than last year. It would be impossible to be worse.
Sweet Love
IBL Representative
Loan Sharks,While I agree with you in that all players have value and should be properly evaluated/discussed, and since you have provided info about your particular league and situation you are facing, I am curious as to why you would be considering the Redskins QB situation. Unless it is a start 2 QB league, I am not sure I would roster a 3rd QB UNLESS you have a rookie or second year guy you are stashing for the future. Personally, I would go with 2 QBs, 4 RBs, 5 WRs, 2 TEs, 1K and 2 Def. By keeping a 3rd QB, you may be limiting yourself. Again, if you start just 1 RB (for example), I could maybe see the strategy, but unless you are running with Rivers and Locker (for example) as your top two (basically a starter and a guy who may not see the field in 2011), I would probably pass.I see this situation as one where a particular QB will see 75% of the snaps and the other 25% (this is not considering injury). Shanny has a quick trigger finger (he is no Spurrier, but he has no qualms about messing around with his starter). Because of this, unless someone plays "Team QB" (and I happen to be in one of those leagues), I am not sure we are going to have a true pulse on the starter until after the first few weeks.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
Grossman really wasn't that bad last year at all. He has been to the Superbowl (yes, I know all about the hows and whys, but a fact is a fact). To say he has had an up and down career is a bit of an understatement, but at least there have been SOME ups.
Beck has not even been a BACKUP quality NFL QB since he has been in the league. Heck, he was the 3rd QB on Skins last year. He's had a down and down career. He was drafted relatively highly by the Dolphins and they dumped him long before his cheap rookie contract was up, despite the team having no legit QB options. Then Baltimore dumped him in favor of Mark Bulger. Yes, you can make excuses for these facts, but that's all they are.
They are basically the same age, and Grossman started over Beck last year in the same scheme playing for the same guys. What has changed?
Yeah, Shanahan (one of them anyway) seems to be hot on him. But he was hot on Maurice Clarrett too, when he thought he saw something in him no one else did. Plus, he has been known to lay a smoke screen or seven, so it is very difficult to know exactly what is going on with the team. So my opinion is that if you are forced to guess, take the guy who has had more success, and seems to have more talent.
I also think the Skins are being prematurely overlooked this year. I don't think they are a playoff team, especially in that division, but I don't think they are going to be in the Luck sweepstakes either, and they are DEFINITELY not TRYING to be in the Luck sweepstakes. The Shanahans may be crazy about some things, but I do think their offensive schemes are pretty effective, which is sometimes all you need to find a reasonably productive fantasy bit player.
Beck has not even been a BACKUP quality NFL QB since he has been in the league. Heck, he was the 3rd QB on Skins last year. He's had a down and down career. He was drafted relatively highly by the Dolphins and they dumped him long before his cheap rookie contract was up, despite the team having no legit QB options. Then Baltimore dumped him in favor of Mark Bulger. Yes, you can make excuses for these facts, but that's all they are.
They are basically the same age, and Grossman started over Beck last year in the same scheme playing for the same guys. What has changed?
Yeah, Shanahan (one of them anyway) seems to be hot on him. But he was hot on Maurice Clarrett too, when he thought he saw something in him no one else did. Plus, he has been known to lay a smoke screen or seven, so it is very difficult to know exactly what is going on with the team. So my opinion is that if you are forced to guess, take the guy who has had more success, and seems to have more talent.
I also think the Skins are being prematurely overlooked this year. I don't think they are a playoff team, especially in that division, but I don't think they are going to be in the Luck sweepstakes either, and they are DEFINITELY not TRYING to be in the Luck sweepstakes. The Shanahans may be crazy about some things, but I do think their offensive schemes are pretty effective, which is sometimes all you need to find a reasonably productive fantasy bit player.
dgreen
Footballguy
They won six games last year with a horrible defense, subpar QB play, an ugly patchwork OL, no playmakers on offense, and enough drama to win an Oscar. As you say, the D should improve. They've acquired guys who are both more talented than guys last year and who actually fit their system. The offense still lacks real playmakers, QB play will still be subpar, and the OL isn't going to be great (although I expect a slight improvement). And then there's the real difference this year: decreased drama. I would love to say they'll have no drama, but this is the Redskins and I'm sure somewhere along the line someone in the organization will do something to send to media and the fans into a frenzy. But, it should be less than last year.I'm not saying they're a playoff team, but I really don't get the 2-14 type of predictions.Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Did you just wake up from a nap in 2009? Mike Shanahan is completely 100% in charge of the team and its roster moves. Snyder hasn't had anything to do with personnel moves since Shanny took over last season.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
/\ This. And out of the 10 games they lost last year, iirc they were only non-competitive in the mnf blowout to the eagles and the season opener to the giants. They could of easily won several of those other games. There was the 4th quarter meltdown vs. Houston, the botched extra point vs. Tampa, Moss dropping the go ahead td pass vs. dallas, etc. As for the OP, I actually thought the offense looked better with Sexy Rexy running it last year, than it did with McNabb. I think Shanahan, however, will give Beck every opportunity to win the job, and he does have a slight advantage since he's been able to practice while Rex hasn't thus far.In dynasty you clearly go with Beck here, as he has the potential to be a multi-year starter if he wins the qb job. If Sexy Rexy wins the starting job, short of the Skins winning the division or at least making the playoffs, the Skins will bring in another qb to start next year.
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The Redskins seem enamored with Beck for some reason, but everything I've heard says that Grossman has performed better than him whenever they were "side by side." I have no doubt that Beck is smart, hungry and motivated -- and that he will run the offense exactly the way Kyle wants. However, I've also heard that he has trouble with the long ball, which could be a flag. Beck has the edge perhaps in terms of "decision making" since Grossman is a turnover machine. But Rex has more experience and arm strength and understands Kyle's offense as well. I'll give the edge to Beck simply because the Skins know what they have in Grossman, while Beck is still an unknown, who has the potential to be good or bad, but we just won't know until he gets a chance.It's funny to hear responses that both quarterbacks are woeful, and that the team is a complete mess. Look, I tend to agree that the Redskins don't have their "QB of the future" on the team right now. Neither of these guys has shown themselves to be good enough to be a legit NFL starting QB on a team that will go to the playoffs. So yeah, they need to be looking to upgrade next year most likely. That said, there are several things that I don't agree with about just labeling the whole team as a mess.1. They have been a mess the last 10 years thanks to Snyder's penchant for signing older, high-name free agents who bust once they get here (see: Haynesworth, Albert and McNabb, Donovan). However, this year, they have tried to sign a high number of reasonably priced, younger football players who are at the same time upgrades over what they had last year (Hightower, Bowen, Josh Wilson, etc.) AND they are trying to hit on more guys from the draft (Kerrigan, Hankerson, Jenkins, etc.) So, while the team has been a loser for a decade, their current approach breaks sharply from the past and indicates they are trying to build for the future. They still need updating on the OL and QB and because that probably won't happen til next year, they are probably not a playoff team. BUT, that does not make the current moves a failure for the future or the team a mess. It is a success to take the first baby steps toward respectability IMO. To be far, you have to argue on what you see this year, not on what they did last year, or the year before.2. In terms of fantasy numbers for a QB you would plug in as your 3rd guy, it is absolutely NOT the case that either of these guys are worthless. I think Rex Grossman over 4 games last year threw for 884 yards and 7 TDs. Are those numbers really bad for a # 3 FFL QB that you are ONLY using in an emergency -- if you could get 200 yards and 2 TDs, it's not like you are getting a goosegg. Plus, if the Redskins are playing from behind, the numbers could be ok for a Redskins QB. Rex also threw 4 picks, so if you league subtracts heavily for INTs, that'll chip into your points though.Two cents.
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dapunisher
Footballguy
True, but that cuts both ways. They won six games - four by 3 points, one by 5 points, and one by 6 points. Applying your logic, instead of 6-0 in those games, the Skins could have finished 0-6. Then again, they were an odd team last year - beat the Super Bowl Champs but also lost by double digits to the Lions. Played Indy close, beat the Bears, but also lost by 14 to the Rams./\ This. And out of the 10 games they lost last year, iirc they were only non-competitive in the mnf blowout to the eagles and the season opener to the giants. They could of easily won several of those other games. There was the 4th quarter meltdown vs. Houston, the botched extra point vs. Tampa, Moss dropping the go ahead td pass vs. dallas, etc. As for the OP, I actually thought the offense looked better with Sexy Rexy running it last year, than it did with McNabb. I think Shanahan, however, will give Beck every opportunity to win the job, and he does have a slight advantage since he's been able to practice while Rex hasn't thus far.
I'm not saying they're a playoff team, but I really don't get the 2-14 type of predictions.
In dynasty you clearly go with Beck here, as he has the potential to be a multi-year starter if he wins the qb job. If Sexy Rexy wins the starting job, short of the Skins winning the division or at least making the playoffs, the Skins will bring in another qb to start next year.
Eastwood
Footballguy
Lord, please let this happen and
in advance. If there was ever a franchise who needed this young man its my Skins.Not saying the Redskins will make the playoffs (odds are against it) but to get luck you are going to probably have to go 2-14 or 3-13 at best. The Skins won 6 games last year amidst mass chaos and horrible play on defense, which has been vastly upgraded. It's possible for them to lose 13 or 14 games, but I still consider it more likely for them to win 5-7 games at least. This is the problem with all the "tanking it" arguments...you need to be more than "bad." You need to be bad and incredibly lucky to lose so consistently and have no other awful teams lose as much... Not that I wouldn't like Luck...I would...but counting on it, even if they are bad, it's just not a slam dunk by any stretch...Lord, please let this happen and
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Yes, I understand this. My main point was that outside a couple of games, they were competitive every week. Sure, if they had some crazy negative variance, they could of finished 1-15. Otoh, if they had some crazy positive variance last year, they could of finished 12-4 and won the division.True, but that cuts both ways. They won six games - four by 3 points, one by 5 points, and one by 6 points. Applying your logic, instead of 6-0 in those games, the Skins could have finished 0-6. Then again, they were an odd team last year - beat the Super Bowl Champs but also lost by double digits to the Lions. Played Indy close, beat the Bears, but also lost by 14 to the Rams./\ This. And out of the 10 games they lost last year, iirc they were only non-competitive in the mnf blowout to the eagles and the season opener to the giants. They could of easily won several of those other games. There was the 4th quarter meltdown vs. Houston, the botched extra point vs. Tampa, Moss dropping the go ahead td pass vs. dallas, etc. As for the OP, I actually thought the offense looked better with Sexy Rexy running it last year, than it did with McNabb. I think Shanahan, however, will give Beck every opportunity to win the job, and he does have a slight advantage since he's been able to practice while Rex hasn't thus far.
I'm not saying they're a playoff team, but I really don't get the 2-14 type of predictions.
In dynasty you clearly go with Beck here, as he has the potential to be a multi-year starter if he wins the qb job. If Sexy Rexy wins the starting job, short of the Skins winning the division or at least making the playoffs, the Skins will bring in another qb to start next year.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
I've always been under the impression that Grossman has always looked good/great in practice (maybe Bears fans can chime in here). I thought his biggest issue is that he had a propensity for making horrific decisions during games.It will be interesting to see how these guys look in the preseason.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
an espn reporter yesterday mentioned that beck wasn't looking good, and that those hopeful for positive beck news in the first week might be disappointed...
but hey, even though he is weak armed, he compensates with inaccuracy and poor timing...
moss had a great year and re-signed, armstrong surprised, not sure how much stallworth has in the tank, but gaffney is a competent if not thrilling pick up... and hankerson was one of my favorite WRs in the draft, after the obvious ones like green, jones & little... and they do have some TE talent...
if grossman (re)emerges, he won't be completely bereft of receiving weapons...
they may not have a strong running game... and they are clearly worst team in east on paper, so may have to throw a lot?
but hey, even though he is weak armed, he compensates with inaccuracy and poor timing...
moss had a great year and re-signed, armstrong surprised, not sure how much stallworth has in the tank, but gaffney is a competent if not thrilling pick up... and hankerson was one of my favorite WRs in the draft, after the obvious ones like green, jones & little... and they do have some TE talent...
if grossman (re)emerges, he won't be completely bereft of receiving weapons...
they may not have a strong running game... and they are clearly worst team in east on paper, so may have to throw a lot?
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Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I think the preseason starter is Beck, and by the 1st game Grossman is starting.
Grossman gets made fun of a lot, but if I'm trying to make the playoffs I'm putting Grossman in there. He has more experience in the system, the offensive players will respond better to him, and I think Beck will makes some poor plays in the preseason. At about game #12, Beck steps in for his shot at the job next year.
Fact is, unless they get 2 more interior offensive linemen to either start or be solid backups, the QB will spend a lot of time on his ### anyway.
Grossman gets made fun of a lot, but if I'm trying to make the playoffs I'm putting Grossman in there. He has more experience in the system, the offensive players will respond better to him, and I think Beck will makes some poor plays in the preseason. At about game #12, Beck steps in for his shot at the job next year.
Fact is, unless they get 2 more interior offensive linemen to either start or be solid backups, the QB will spend a lot of time on his ### anyway.
