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Reggie Bush to Miami (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter seahawk 17
- Start date
Detroit Revival
Footballguy
Reggie might just be the man in Miami - They signed him for two years and I imagine that's just to get D. Thomas up to speed. It's a very conditional "the man" title in my opinion.
seahawk 17
Footballguy
@adbrandt
Andrew Brandt Bush will receive $2.5 million signing bonus and $2.5 million salary from Dolphins this yr; $4.5 million salary plus wkout bonus next.
Andrew Brandt Bush will receive $2.5 million signing bonus and $2.5 million salary from Dolphins this yr; $4.5 million salary plus wkout bonus next.
footballnerd
Footballguy
A MIA split backfield could work real well with Reggie. Now wonder which one of Brown or Williams they resign.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
You obviously don't know much about Reggie Bush that the NFL knows and most of the general public does as well. Reggie Bush is NOT a feature back. He's best used as a situational / 3rd down / passing down guy and that's exactly how he will be used in Miami.
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How so? He's been valued assuming one of Ronnie or Ricky would be back, but I don't think it was assumed they would sign someone else better than Reggie in addition to re-signing one of them.
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Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
I agree, this is good news for Thomas owners. Had the fish signed DeAngelo Williams we would be singing a different tune.
Well Bradshaw and DWill have been using Miami as leverage and although neither seemed likely, stranger things have happened. If you drafted Thomas like me you can now let out a sigh of relief.Now get Orton and the upgrade is all but complete.
I guess it depends on when you drafted- I'm assuming Thomas' ADP is mainly reflecting the likelyhood of Miami signing either Ronnie or Ricky, and that's about it. There really wasn't much of a concern about DWill or Bradshaw up until a few days ago. I guess his value increased over a couple of days ago when that was still a risk, but I don't think it's any higher than it was most of the offseason. In fact, if they do re-sign Ronnie, it's probably lower than it was.'hook014 said:
Drafted dynasty startup about a month ago. So I'm not thinking redraft or rookie draft in established league here.But there's no way I get him late after this deal. At the time, no one really knew how this would shake out and the risk seemed pretty high.If you see it a different way that's fine. All I can tell you is that's the way our draft went down.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
This is not "The Man" money. That's less than what Pierre Thomas got. This is not starter money. This is 3rd down, gimmick, ST money. Other than signing no other RB, I say this is the best possible scenario for Thomas. Oh, and put me in the minority, but I say Ingram is top 15 this year and I own him in no leagues. He might even be top 10. He will be the starter from game one and PT will back him up. He's not getting 75% of the touches, but he will be a beast.'seahawk 17 said:
Thanks for the info on numbers. And I agree, that's not bellcow money.I wish I owned Ingram. Wonder what his ADP settles at late august.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Again, look at the money. Four years, $12 million with $4 million guaranteed. That's not starter money. To me, that says fantasy relevant only if Ingram gets injured.
Doug B
Footballguy
Assuming health, Ingram's going to be the Arian Foster of this FF-draft season. Might go in the 5th or 6th today, but I'd bet on him being a 2nd rounder** by the time the Labor Day weekend drafts roll around. I think he's going to have some
moments in preseason that will shoot him up the boards.** at least in my local Saints-homer drafts.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
With Reggie Bush now in tow, does MIA become wildcat central again? Bush would seem to the ideal back for such a role...no? I know the wildcat craze diminished significantly in 2010 but perhaps now with Bush, it become a bigger part of the offense?
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
My thought is that Bush wanted out, not that NO would not pay.
I thought they both wanted him in NO. I guess that was probably just spin.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I know it's not the popular opinion, but I think that the worst thing that ever happened to Reggie was being drafted into a situation where he was used in that manner. It always kind of seemed like he gave up yards to go for the big play because he knew that his opportunities were going to be limited and he felt the need to prove himself every time he got the ball. It's a lot easier to just take what you can get and hit the hole that's going to get you 3 yards when you know you're going to have another 20 chances for something better to open up. He never really got a chance to mature as a runner because he was being asked to do something different.It also didn't help that he never really got enough work running inside to get better at it.I'm not saying he would have been a surefire superstar, but I still think that if he'd been drafted by the Texans and asked to be a more typical style NFL running back, he would have been much better off for it and people's opinions of him would be much higher than they are now.'Hoss_Cartwright said:
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saintfool
Dead sexy
payton has said he wants to get back to the superbowl formula with regards to playcalling and balance. that would suggest a real running game like thomas-bell and real RBBC. i don't see ingram getting 400+ carries this year.
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saintfool
Dead sexy
NO must have low-balled him and dared him to stay. he bailed. they have a number of players to re-sign and his contract was a problem, especially given the depth at the position.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Bush is great in open space, but not great at beating the LB tot he corner and turning up field. So if he goes Wildcat, he's not all that great up the gut and he can't get around the outside. His best role is in the slot with little dump offs where he has to beat a flat footed LB or safety not trying to outrun them to the outside.
He got more than three years of practice at running up the gut. They forcefed him over and over to try to get him to improve on that. More than any other RB would've gotten but they had to try to justify the draft pick they spent (plus the dollars) on him. Every single offseason after his rookie year he said how was going to work on his inside running and every year he finished the season with that 3.8-4.0 YPC because he just couldn't do it. He got more than any RB deserved based on the production....
saintfool
Dead sexy
i'm going to make the obvious counterpoint here: Reggie's 2009 season where he ran only 70 times but averaged over 5 ypc.
Frank Black
Footballguy
How will he be the main ball carrier when he is riding the bench because of injuries throughout the season? I see this as positive news for the rook and perhaps Ivory more than I do for Thomas.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
You point out the outlier season as evidence of what? The guy was given every opportunity in the world and never ran for more than 600 rushing yards in any year. His 454 other carries resulted in a 4.0 average. In five years he has 4200 total yards (rushing and receiving). I'll take the body of work as a better indicator than the 70 carries in 2009, which was yet another year he broke down. The guy is what he is. Cherry picking stats is not going to change that. I believe the guy only has like two carries for more than 25 yards yet is supposed to be some sort of explosive playmaker. I may be wrong on that last stat, but I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong by much. That being said, I was hoping my Rams would pick him up. I thought he would be the perfect compliment to SJax. I think he is a horrible starting RB, but can be used to do a lot of special plays and is great on 3rd down coming out of the backfield.
saintfool
Dead sexy
I'm no fan of Reg but i think, as a Saints fan, that i follow him more closely than most. as such, i think your opinion of him is, well, off. he was improving as a RB, as his steadily increasing YPC season after season indicated. saints fans i spoke with agreed that he was running harder even if it wasn't any better. he is a specialized player with tremendous ability that may be better displayed in Miami, with its natural field (which is what he wanted and why i doubt he ever considering going to go to STL), but i somehow doubt it.
baconisgood
Footballguy
For a guy with Bush's injury history the difference was probably in guaranteed cash. If that whole 9.5 mil is G'd then I could see the Saints balking at it.
Daniel Thomas was converted from QB to RB in college. He's missed the offseason so there is a chance he might not be the trigger man for that package, but my guess is that eventually he will be. Of course, we're all just guessing in here. With Bush and Marshall on offense now they might not even need that package anymore.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Frank, I think he's talking about Daniel Thomas, not Pierre.
saintsfan1977
Footballguy
You must have missed that Arizona playoff game in 09. We don't get to the SB without him. And when did he ever have a me first attitude? He was a team player ever since he was drafted. His production wasn't on par with his contract but that wasnt his fault. You act like we got J.Russell. He wasn't going to get cut. He was going to be paid less than what Miami signed him for but cutting him was never gonna happen this year. He opened up the offense for Drew with his presence on the field. Now we will go back to a traditional offense. I see MI and Pierre getting about 60/30 split and Ivory getting the other 10. I want to see how this offense runs without having the mismatch that was Bush on the field. I am not saying he was a great running back but he was starting to run between the tackles before he broke his leg in the SF game. It looked like the light had turned on for him late in 09 and early last year. I hope does great in Miami. On 3rd or 4th and goal or 3rd and <5 he is top notch.He wont ever be a bellcow and we didnt need him to be one and Miami isnt looking for that either.Hear hear. I was honestly sitting on pins and needles wondering if he would really be let go and finally the moment is here. We won a Super Bowl despite Reggie's suckitude and me-first mentality. Finally we're clear of divas. Goodbye, loser.I expect Raggie Bush to still suck. I expect him to take a play designed up the middle where he could of easily got 3 to 4 yards, but he wanted the homerun, so he bounced it outside for a 5 yeard loss, thats what I predict an average play for him to be..... oh the days of Reggie are done.Good bye and don't let the door hit you in the..., never a fan of Reggies play on the field. He has talent, but he cant do it on the NFL field....not just cuz he is not effective, but because he is hurt ALLLL THE TIME.BUH BYE REGGIE, NEVER BEEN MORE EXCITED AS A SAINT FAN.
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valhallan
Footballguy
I understand he had his moments and did help with Super Bowl run at times. I just think his negative plays far outweighed his positive contributions overall. Not really interested in debating it so we can agree to disagree.Edit: I expect this to go down just like Aaron Brooks. He'll be awful in Miami then get cut and everyone will wonder why no one will give him a chance.You must have missed that Arizona playoff game in 09. We don't get to the SB without him. And when did he ever have a me first attitude? He was a team player ever since he was drafted. His production wasn't on par with his contract but that wasnt his fault. You act like we got J.Russell. He wasn't going to get cut. He was going to be paid less than what Miami signed him for but cutting him was never gonna happen this year. He opened up the offense for Drew with his presence on the field. Now we will go back to a traditional offense. I see MI and Pierre getting about 60/30 split and Ivory getting the other 10. I want to see how this offense runs without having the mismatch that was Bush on the field. I am not saying he was a great running back but he was starting to run between the tackles before he broke his leg in the SF game. It looked like the light had turned on for him late in 09 and early last year. I hope does great in Miami. On 3rd or 4th and goal or 3rd and <5 he is top notch.He wont ever be a bellcow and we didnt need him to be one and Miami isnt looking for that either.Hear hear. I was honestly sitting on pins and needles wondering if he would really be let go and finally the moment is here. We won a Super Bowl despite Reggie's suckitude and me-first mentality. Finally we're clear of divas. Goodbye, loser.I expect Raggie Bush to still suck. I expect him to take a play designed up the middle where he could of easily got 3 to 4 yards, but he wanted the homerun, so he bounced it outside for a 5 yeard loss, thats what I predict an average play for him to be..... oh the days of Reggie are done.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
Going from 3.7, to 3.8, to 3.9 over the course of three years I doubt is a statistically significant change in YPC. It increased, but still remained decidedly mediocre. It did jump up quite a bit in 2009, and I was quite surprised but it was only 70 carries. The following year he reverted back to a much more Reggie typical 4.2 ypc. 70 carries over 5 ypc, and 524 right at 4.0 (including those 70 in 2009). He was, is and always will be a guy hovering around 4.0. Dump a pass off to him in the flat and the guy is a human highlight real. Hand the ball off to him behind the line and I'd rather watch Tim Hightower.And the turf thing is the reason I'm not totally broken up about not getting him. He wouldn't do much good backing up SJax if he could only take 70 carries before heading to the training table. Miami is a good spot for him with an unproven rookie as his only competition. Maybe he proves me wrong and tears it up as a Phin.
JuSt CuZ
Footballguy
His rookie year gave him high expectations..he has never lived up to them. He is too hesitant in the backfield, not good enough, him in miami will show that.I understand he had his moments and did help with Super Bowl run at times. I just think his negative plays far outweighed his positive contributions overall. Not really interested in debating it so we can agree to disagree.You must have missed that Arizona playoff game in 09. We don't get to the SB without him. And when did he ever have a me first attitude? He was a team player ever since he was drafted. His production wasn't on par with his contract but that wasnt his fault. You act like we got J.Russell. He wasn't going to get cut. He was going to be paid less than what Miami signed him for but cutting him was never gonna happen this year. He opened up the offense for Drew with his presence on the field. Now we will go back to a traditional offense. I see MI and Pierre getting about 60/30 split and Ivory getting the other 10. I want to see how this offense runs without having the mismatch that was Bush on the field. I am not saying he was a great running back but he was starting to run between the tackles before he broke his leg in the SF game. It looked like the light had turned on for him late in 09 and early last year. I hope does great in Miami. On 3rd or 4th and goal or 3rd and <5 he is top notch.He wont ever be a bellcow and we didnt need him to be one and Miami isnt looking for that either.Hear hear. I was honestly sitting on pins and needles wondering if he would really be let go and finally the moment is here. We won a Super Bowl despite Reggie's suckitude and me-first mentality. Finally we're clear of divas. Goodbye, loser.I expect Raggie Bush to still suck. I expect him to take a play designed up the middle where he could of easily got 3 to 4 yards, but he wanted the homerun, so he bounced it outside for a 5 yeard loss, thats what I predict an average play for him to be..... oh the days of Reggie are done.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
This has got to stop. Drew Brees opened up the offense with his presence on the field. D's didn't game plan to stop Reggie, they game planned to stop Brees and the receivers. If anything, one could argue that just about every other RB on the roster did more to open up the offense for for Brees than Reggie. And I'm done with my Reggie bashing for the day. My boat's full of fish and I just don't want to clean anymore when I get back to the dock...
Man In The Box
Footballguy
I like the move a lot as a Miami fan. They didn't break the bank to get him, and he's a playmaker. God knows, watching this team for almost 25 years, they need playmakers.
saintsfan1977
Footballguy
Show me one instance where PT,Ivory, Betts or J.Jones drew in 3 players on a play action pass or when they went in motion. You can't because it never happened. I am not praising Bush to be the best rb the Saints had or even a good rb but to say Defenses didnt gameplan for him is ridiculous. Yes they wanted to stop Brees but with Reggie on the field, they had a LB covering him or sometimes a safety. Look what happened when SF put Patrick Willis on him. When there are 2 or more defenders looking to see where he was, it was easy picking for Brees to go to Colston, Moore, Meach, or any of the TEs since it was 1 on 1 or wide open. Because he isn't CJ or AP people dislike him. That has to stop. If he was a 7th rd pick nobody would bash him.
saintsfan1977
Footballguy
If you guys get inside the 5yd line give him the ball. There isnt a D in the NFL that can stop him. If you need a 1st down, he is the guy. He isn't a fantasy football machine but he will help you guys win games.
Dawg Pound 69
Footballguy
Don't the Dolphins play on grass rather than turf ? Seems like that will hurt a speed guy like Reggie.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
It didn't seem to bother Gayle Sayers
Now I'm not comparing Bush to Sayers in his prime, I'm comparing him to Sayers now.
saintsfan1977
Footballguy
His stats are much better playing on turf, but the Saints play 65% of their games on turf. We will have to see how he does when he plays 65% of the year on grass. I am thinking it will be about the same. A change of scenery might do him some good though.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
I'm sure that Brees handed over his MVP trophy to Reggie when they gave it to him because he was the real key to Brees' success. And I'm sorry, but no team assigned three guys to stop Reggie Bush. Never happened. Never will. Teams gameplanned to stop Brees, not a guy who never ran for more than 60 yards in a career, couldn't run between the tackles and couldn't get around the outside because the LB's in the NFL are so much faster than what he played against in college. The only way he kept a Defensive coordinator up at night is if one of his commercials came on the TV and woke the guy up. The QB was the league MVP a couple years ago and flirted with the passing yards record. Reggie Bush had very little to do with that in his limited time on the field because he can't stay healthy and when he is, he runs for four yards and then falls down. Stop riding the guy's jock. He's not worth the praise that's been heaped on him since he left USC.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Why not. Brees would've never won the MVP if it wasn't for Reggie Bush according to some people. He's that good.... Evidently the reason he never runs for many yards is because there's three guys on him all the time, leaving Brees and 9 other guys to take on 8. That's just too easy to exploit. I'm really surprised that the Saints didn't go undefeated for five straight years.It didn't seem to bother Gayle Sayers
saintsfan1977
Footballguy
How many Saints games have you watched? I'm not riding the guys jock. I have seen every one of his games while played with the Saints and not one of his games with USC. I never said 3 guys were assigned to Bush. I said he drew 3 guys to one side of the field. That is fact. You look at stats and say he sucks. FF wise yea he does. In fact, Bush was my worst pick last year in FF and he was depth. But his presence on the field was a nightmare for DC's. That is all I am saying. When he was on the field it made a difference. He was the best pass blocking back on the roster. PT was not as good at blocking like Reggie was. I saw the games. You probably didn't see half of them. Stats don't show everything that happened in a game. There is alot more to it than that.I hope he has his best season ever this year and if he doesn't it won't bother me. He has a SB ring so he can go where the money is at or he can go where he gets more snaps. The NFL is a business. I am just a fan of the Saints and the NFL.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
I think Miami helps Reggie to get more carries his stock should rise somewhat but he has to prove to me he can stay healthy before I put much stock in him. As for the Saints I think you will see Ingram eventually take over but it will be pretty even between him and PT at first. Also there are the new rumors that Sproles is going to be a Saint. Alot can still happen before this clears and we begin to see what value is really there.
saintsfan1977
Footballguy
Looks like Ivory could start the year on the PUP (lis franc). L.Hamilton will probably replace him.
