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Remember when you cut your 2.02, 3, 4, or 5 in dynasty leagues to win (1 Viewer)

JohnnyU

Footballguy
It's an interesting quandary. You make trades in dynasty leagues to obtain picks, a lot of them in the 2nd rd. Then when the season starts you realize that you don't have room for some of these guys because you CAN win now. You have a hard choice to make as to whether to drop a Mike Walker or Jason Hill for the likes of Brandon Stokely and Bobby Engram. Maybe your actions of the past should play into your actions of the future for how you plan to build your team? I'm guilty of this. A lot of teams like to make sure they have a couple of players at the end of their bench that they don't care if they cut, but most of us in dynasty leagues have a hard time cutting guys we perceived as having potential for the future for the sake of winning now. This is what makes dynasty leagues so interesting. If one could only realize their tendencies, they could plan accordingly with the way they trade for picks and draft?

 
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It's an interesting quandary. You make trades in dynasty leagues to obtain picks, a lot them in the 2nd rd. Then when the season starts you realize that you don't have room for some of these guys because you CAN win now. You have a hard choice to make as to whether to drop a Mike Walker or Jason Hill for the likes of Brandon Stokely and Bobby Engram. Maybe your actions of the past should play into your actions of the future for how you plan to build your team? I'm guilty of this. A lot of teams like to make sure they have a couple of players at the end of their bench that they don't care if they cut, but most of us in dynasty leagues have a hard time cutting guys we perceived as having potential for the future for the sake of winning now. This is what makes dynasty leagues so interesting. If one could only realize their tendencies, they could plan accordingly with the way they trade for picks and draft?
I'm more inclined to cut a WR over a RB, especially a rookie. I feel that many times you can get that WR back for almost nothing because it takes them so long to work their way up the depth chart. If I am out of the running though, I will be making offers for Sidney Rice, Jason Hill, etc. on contending teams because they will be looking for the Bobby Engram to win the title, and theres a good chance that Rice and Hill's value will be much higher during the 2008 pre-season than December 2007
 
It's an interesting quandary. You make trades in dynasty leagues to obtain picks, a lot them in the 2nd rd. Then when the season starts you realize that you don't have room for some of these guys because you CAN win now. You have a hard choice to make as to whether to drop a Mike Walker or Jason Hill for the likes of Brandon Stokely and Bobby Engram. Maybe your actions of the past should play into your actions of the future for how you plan to build your team? I'm guilty of this. A lot of teams like to make sure they have a couple of players at the end of their bench that they don't care if they cut, but most of us in dynasty leagues have a hard time cutting guys we perceived as having potential for the future for the sake of winning now. This is what makes dynasty leagues so interesting. If one could only realize their tendencies, they could plan accordingly with the way they trade for picks and draft?
I'm more inclined to cut a WR over a RB, especially a rookie. I feel that many times you can get that WR back for almost nothing because it takes them so long to work their way up the depth chart. If I am out of the running though, I will be making offers for Sidney Rice, Jason Hill, etc. on contending teams because they will be looking for the Bobby Engram to win the title, and theres a good chance that Rice and Hill's value will be much higher during the 2008 pre-season than December 2007
Good points. The way I see it is, if you are the type of owner in a dynasty league that leans toward winning now most of the time, then trading your 2nd rd picks and later is a wise move. Just build your team's future on your #1 picks, since you don't hold as much value for your #2s to win now.I find this to be true even in dynasty leagues with 24 or 26 roster spots with 12 teams.
 
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One of the mainstay dynasty guys here posted a while ago that he always trades late firsts because they are extremely overrated. I'm starting to agree with that theory. You can ship that late first off in a package and come away with the best player in the deal quite easily.

So in the case of cutting early second rounders to pick up useful depth, I don't see much problem with it. It's a rare occasion that a player of worth is drafted at that point and even more rare that the guy who drafted him actually reaps the rewards when they come.

 
One of the mainstay dynasty guys here posted a while ago that he always trades late firsts because they are extremely overrated. I'm starting to agree with that theory. You can ship that late first off in a package and come away with the best player in the deal quite easily. So in the case of cutting early second rounders to pick up useful depth, I don't see much problem with it. It's a rare occasion that a player of worth is drafted at that point and even more rare that the guy who drafted him actually reaps the rewards when they come.
Perennial shark moves in dynasty:Trading late first rounders for solid players (recent examples I've seen: Gates in non-PPR, non-TE; TO in PPR)Trading second rounders for old studs (Moose in his super-stud year)Early in the season, trading for the first rounders of teams you think will stink (before they realize it)Trading rookie studs after their rookie years (this one is SO hard to do emotionally).As for the specific question, I have no problem cutting loose on late second rounders like Jason Hill, etc. Second rounders that surprise (J Jones, J Jones, G Jennings, N Burleson) should be kept. The real problem is first rounders that disappoint. They can eat up roster space for years. I am starting to think that the shark move is cutting bait on them early. Those who traded J.J. Arrington for somebody like Isaac Bruce early in his rookie year look like geniuses.
 
If it's a deep IDP dynasty, the late first/early second has significant value, as that expands the player pool. And you can get a more likely performer, admittedly at perhaps a less glamorous position.

Of course, I suck at drafting in round 1. However, I'm pretty good once we get to round 2 & after - somehow I get more useful players there.

I've had the misfortune of cutting my 1.01 (Mr. Rogers) recently. I've dealt away 2nd rounders due to needing proven players, and I'd do it again.

 
Giving up on prospects is a dangerous business. Just when you think a guy sucks, he'll break out and surprise. It happens again and again. Remember the LenDale White hate this offseason? It was pretty similar to the Larry Johnson hate a few years back, which was pretty similar to the Thomas Jones hate a few years before that. Now all the haters are : :rolleyes: because those guys have proven (or in White's case "are proving") that they can play ball.

People like instant results. When their rookies are slow to develop, owners will often lose patience and sell at a loss. This is a mistake. If all you did was judge a guy based on his first 1-3 seasons, you'd miss out on a huge chunk of the league's future stars. Chad Johnson was a nobody after his rookie season. Santana Moss was a flop. Plaxico Burress looked absolutely terrible. The list goes on and on.

The thing people sometimes fail to realize is that different players develop at different rates. So while Jacoby Jones might be making a smoother transition to the NFL than Ted Ginn, that doesn't mean he's a better player. Maybe Ginn just hasn't had his chance yet. Maybe he's learning the ropes. Maybe he'll be a top 15 WR in two years.

My personal philosophy is to try to keep my highly-drafted prospects on my team until I'm pretty sure they suck. Sometimes it's obvious from a player's first game that he's going to be a superstar (Randy Moss). But usually, it takes 2-4 years before you really know what you have in a player. If you're not willing to allow him those years to develop, why did you draft him in the first place? I think you owe it to your team to give your prospects a chance to bloom.

Obviously stockpiling prospects can cause a roster squeeze, but there are plenty of ways to cope with this problem. One thing that I like to do is convert my assets into draft picks. This past offseason I had a bit of a roster overload in the Hyperactive league, so I traded Matt Jones for a 2008 1st round pick and Wali Lundy for a 2008 3rd round pick. This allowed me to retain their value (in the form of draft picks) while also freeing up two roster spots that I ultimately filled with sleepers. Simple mathematics shows that this is a profitable maneuver.

Let A = value of Matt Jones = value of 1st round rookie pick (because we're assuming that it's a fair trade i.e. the value of the pick I receive equals the value of the player I give)

Let B = value of Wali Lundy = value of 3rd round rookie pick (because we're assuming that it's a fair trade)

Let C = value of the best player on the waiver wire

If I keep Jones and Lundy, I have A + B.

If I trade Jones and Lundy for fair market value, I have A + B. But since I also have two open roster spots to use on waiver moves, I actually have more than A + B. I have A + B + C + C.

As you can see, the total value of the second scenario is greater than the total value of the first. In plain English, by converting your players into draft picks you retain their value while also allowing your team to acquire additional value through waiver wire pick-ups.

So if your roster is loaded and you don't want to drop any of your developmental "project" type players, you can usually find a way to make a trade that allows you to cut some weight without losing value. Consider your roster as consisting of three types of players:

Group A: Starters. You need these players. They are important to your immediate success. You do not want to lose them.

Group B: Prospects. Prospects who are too valuable to cut. Guys like Sidney Rice and Robert Meachem fit this mold.

Group C: Flyers. You like these guys, but they don't have any trade value.

Now let's pretend the roster cutdown date is approaching. Since you probably want to keep your group C guys to see if they pan out and since they don't have any trade value, the proper move here is usually to convert your group B guys into future draft picks. This allows you to keep their value on your roster while also allowing you to keep your group C players.

Now some people might say, "Well aren't you selling low on Robert Meachem if you trade him before he develops?" Not really. You're selling him at market value. And the pick you get in return has value. This isn't a "win now" or "win later" move. It's a "win whenever" move because whenever you want to, you can convert your draft picks right back into player currency.

So if I trade all of my depth for future draft picks, I'm not really hurting my depth. That's because the picks I acquired have value. I can flip them for veteran depth at a moment's notice if I feel like it.

So in conclusion, I recommend keeping your developmental prospects on your roster until you have a good idea of their true value. If you absolutely must make roster space, it's better to trade one of your middle tier prospects for a pick than it is to drop one of your lesser prospects outright without getting anything in return.

 
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I think that you need to tell yourself before you draft a 2nd round/3rd wr/QB/TE- I am going to be willing to sit on this guy for 3 years, or I am going to trade the pick. The is no point in drafting most positions of guys that will need time to develop and then not develop them. Very few non-rb's drafted in those spots produce tight away.

If you are in a win now situation, with little patience, trade those picks.

 
Giving up on prospects is a dangerous business. Just when you think a guy sucks, he'll break out and surprise. It happens again and again. Remember the LenDale White hate this offseason? It was pretty similar to the Larry Johnson hate a few years back, which was pretty similar to the Thomas Jones hate a few years before that. Now all the haters are : :rolleyes: because those guys have proven (or in White's case "are proving") that they can play ball.
Neither of those guys were second rounders, which is what JohnnyU was talking about. Show me a second rounder who looked horrid in real games and turned it around to become a stud and I'll show you 20 who looked horrible and never became studs.
 
So in conclusion, I recommend keeping your developmental prospects on your roster until you have a good idea of their true value. If you absolutely must make roster space, it's better to trade one of your middle tier prospects for a pick than it is to drop one of your lesser prospects outright without getting anything in return.
Nice breakdown :shock: My current roster is structured very much like your 3 groups and I do need to open a spot or two. Your analysis makes a lot of sense and I'll definitely be looking at draft pick deals involving my group B guys.
 
Giving up on prospects is a dangerous business. Just when you think a guy sucks, he'll break out and surprise. It happens again and again. Remember the LenDale White hate this offseason? It was pretty similar to the Larry Johnson hate a few years back, which was pretty similar to the Thomas Jones hate a few years before that. Now all the haters are : :shock: because those guys have proven (or in White's case "are proving") that they can play ball.
Neither of those guys were second rounders, which is what JohnnyU was talking about. Show me a second rounder who looked horrid in real games and turned it around to become a stud and I'll show you 20 who looked horrible and never became studs.
Your numbers are out of whack. Based on numbers I compiled myself, 2nd-3rd round NFL picks succeed at roughly a 30-37% rate. So you can generally assume that one out of every three prospects drafted in the 2nd round of your rookie draft will become a useful FF player. Many of these guys make little to no contributions to their football team as rookies. You want some examples?Drew BreesMatt SchaubChad JohnsonPeerless PriceNate BurlesonLaveranues ColesBernard BerrianMarty BookerLadell BettsAhman GreenChris BrownReubeun DroughnsBrian WestbrookI'm not going to say your odds of hitting with 2nd round rookie picks are great, but one Westbrook or CJ can have a titanic impact on your FF team. I believe the upside that these players offer is well worth the cost of a roster spot in most formats.
 
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EBF makes a very good point. My specific issue has always been bailing on the wrong guy, although I usually get okay value - if I can trade them.

Case in point was Winslow after 2 years of injury. Got an offer centered around DJax, and I dealt him quick, and replaced him with VDavis in the draft. Winslow of course had a big year last year, and Davis has still done nothing. I really did need the WR, and I'd argue DJax is my WR1 (yes, they are weak), so it's probably okay for me.

 
EBF makes a very good point. My specific issue has always been bailing on the wrong guy, although I usually get okay value - if I can trade them.Case in point was Winslow after 2 years of injury. Got an offer centered around DJax, and I dealt him quick, and replaced him with VDavis in the draft. Winslow of course had a big year last year, and Davis has still done nothing. I really did need the WR, and I'd argue DJax is my WR1 (yes, they are weak), so it's probably okay for me.
Knowing who to sell and who to buy is also important. Last year I had an offer on the table involving QB Alex Smith. I had to give up either Antonio Bryant or Bernard Berrian. Bryant was a young WR coming off a 1,000 yard season. He was the WR1 on the Niners and seemed poised for big things. He had opened the season with two big games. Berrian was still largely an unknown. He had opened the season with two solid games, but his production up to that point had been very unspectacular. I decided to trade Berrian and keep Bryant. In the long run that decision effectively ruined the deal for my team. So while it's important to know the mechanics of trading and to understand how to maximize your roster's value, it's also important to know which deals to make. You don't want to "sell high" when you're giving away a star player for a bargain price. Of course, figuring out who's for real and who's a fraud is easier said and done. Sometimes you can weigh all the factors properly (as I believe I did with Bryant vs. Berrian) and still get burned. But that's really another topic entirely.
 
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Giving up on prospects is a dangerous business. Just when you think a guy sucks, he'll break out and surprise. It happens again and again. Remember the LenDale White hate this offseason? It was pretty similar to the Larry Johnson hate a few years back, which was pretty similar to the Thomas Jones hate a few years before that. Now all the haters are : :thumbup: because those guys have proven (or in White's case "are proving") that they can play ball.
Neither of those guys were second rounders, which is what JohnnyU was talking about. Show me a second rounder who looked horrid in real games and turned it around to become a stud and I'll show you 20 who looked horrible and never became studs.
Your numbers are out of whack. Based on numbers I compiled myself, 2nd-3rd round NFL picks succeed at roughly a 30-37% rate. So you can generally assume that one out of every three prospects drafted in the 2nd round of your rookie draft will become a useful FF player. Many of these guys make little to no contributions to their football team as rookies. You want some examples?
Strike 2. (Re)read the OP. Fantasy second rounders. Taking one of my leagues at random, here are the second rounders in the last two years. Reinforces my belief that second rounders rarely pan out. I see one guy who would be drafted in the top 5 rounds in a vet draft today, and a handful of borderline WR3's.This league is non-PPR, non-TE required.

2007

Jason Hill

Greg Olsen

Dwayne Jarrett

Antonio Pittman

Brian Leonard

Steve Smith

Drew Stanton

Dwayne Wright

Craig Davis

Kolby Smith

John Beck

Tony Hunt

Ahmad Bradshaw

Mike Walker

2006

Chad Jackson

Santonio Holmes

Kellen Clemens

Leon Washington

Mike Bell

Cedric Humes

Brandon Marshall

Sinorice Moss

Brodie Croyle

Derek Hagan

Demetrius Williams

Musa Smith

Marty Booker

Wali Lundy

2005

Marion Barber

Chris Henry

Aaron Rodgers

Brandon Jacobs

Matt Jones

Adrian McPherson

Reggie Brown

Vernand Morency

Roddy White

Alvin Pearman

Cedric Houston

Charlie Frye

Tarvaris Jackson

Mark Bradley

 
In my main dynasty league we are penalized for dropping players with contracts larger than 1 year. We have a 5 spot rookie squad, so I stash those rookie WRs there for a year, then give them a 1 year contract (unless they suck or look particularly good) in the offseason when our rosters expand. Taking a chance on a rookie and giving him a longer contract can be costly if you miss in this league, so you can't give out many long contracts.

I am only going to be targeting 2nd and 3rd year WRs that I like. I will likely be trading my 1st rounder every year that I think my team will be in the top 3 or 4. Most recently I traded my 2008 1st rounder for Santonio Holmes with a 3 year contract.

Also, it is a 10 team league, so QBs aren't at a premium. I will not be drafting a QB in the rookie draft unless there are no RBs/WRs/TEs of any real value. I'll only be keeping my late 1st if there is a particular prospect I like, and I'll use my other picks on the Greg olsens and Jason Hills of the world.

I am a big fan of trading a mid/late 1st for a mediocre/bad team's future 1st. I had pick 6 in 2005, but didn't like Troy Williamson, so I traded it to a mediocre team for his 2006 1st rounder. That ended up being pick #2, which I traded (I wasn't sold on DeAngelo Williams, Maroney, et al.... I liked them, but wanted a shot at the RBs coming out in 2007) for a surefire high 2007 1st and what became a 2007 mid 1st, plus some free agent cash. Our league has the 4 worst teams play off for the #1 pick, then it's the standard worst to first for the rest of the rookie draft. I figured the pick I received was sure to be #2 (the worst team's pick unless he should win the playoff).... and as luck would have it, I ended up with pick #1. So the Super Bowl champ, me, also got the #1 pick. :goodposting:

Holy crap that ended up being long. Sorry.

 
Giving up on prospects is a dangerous business. Just when you think a guy sucks, he'll break out and surprise. It happens again and again. Remember the LenDale White hate this offseason? It was pretty similar to the Larry Johnson hate a few years back, which was pretty similar to the Thomas Jones hate a few years before that. Now all the haters are : :goodposting: because those guys have proven (or in White's case "are proving") that they can play ball.
Neither of those guys were second rounders, which is what JohnnyU was talking about. Show me a second rounder who looked horrid in real games and turned it around to become a stud and I'll show you 20 who looked horrible and never became studs.
Your numbers are out of whack. Based on numbers I compiled myself, 2nd-3rd round NFL picks succeed at roughly a 30-37% rate. So you can generally assume that one out of every three prospects drafted in the 2nd round of your rookie draft will become a useful FF player. Many of these guys make little to no contributions to their football team as rookies. You want some examples?
Strike 2. (Re)read the OP. Fantasy second rounders. Taking one of my leagues at random, here are the second rounders in the last two years. Reinforces my belief that second rounders rarely pan out. I see one guy who would be drafted in the top 5 rounds in a vet draft today, and a handful of borderline WR3's.This league is non-PPR, non-TE required.

2007

Jason Hill

Greg Olsen

Dwayne Jarrett

Antonio Pittman

Brian Leonard

Steve Smith

Drew Stanton

Dwayne Wright

Craig Davis

Kolby Smith

John Beck

Tony Hunt

Ahmad Bradshaw

Mike Walker

2006

Chad Jackson

Santonio Holmes

Kellen Clemens

Leon Washington

Mike Bell

Cedric Humes

Brandon Marshall

Sinorice Moss

Brodie Croyle

Derek Hagan

Demetrius Williams

Musa Smith

Marty Booker

Wali Lundy

2005

Marion Barber

Chris Henry

Aaron Rodgers

Brandon Jacobs

Matt Jones

Adrian McPherson

Reggie Brown

Vernand Morency

Roddy White

Alvin Pearman

Cedric Houston

Charlie Frye

Tarvaris Jackson

Mark Bradley
You have a couple problems here.One problem is that you're only looking at the last three years. Given that it usually takes prospects anywhere between 1-4 years to reach their peak performance, it doesn't do us a lot of good to only use examples from drafts that happened within the last 30 months. They're nearly useless because we don't yet know whether the players in those drafts are any good.

It would be much more helpful to look at drafts from 2003 and earlier.

Your second problem is that you're ignoring owner competence. I would argue that some of the players on your list (Pearman, Lundy, Bell, Houston, McPherson, Humes) were awful picks in the first place. Those guys were all longshots for long-term success. They should not have been chosen in the first two rounds of rookie drafts. That's not just hindsight talking. It's the odds. None of those players were first day draft picks. First day draft picks typically have a much higher success rate than 4th-7th round picks. So people who chose 4th-7th round players over first day players were making a mathematical error in the first place.

My philosophy assumes that you're going to be a smart owner and avoid the obvious overhyped guys (Kolby Smith, Dwayne Wright, Ahmad Bradshaw, Antonio Pittman from your list this year). If you're smart and you actually take the guys who were highly-regarded by NFL scouts and chosen early in the draft, I think your odds of landing a decent player are pretty good.

And really, this data in a vacuum is relatively worthless. It's not necessary for every 2nd round pick to pan out in order to make 2nd round picks worth carrying on your roster. Rather, 2nd round picks must pan out with a higher frequency than the waiver wire alternatives in order to be worth carrying on your roster.

It's kind of like that old story where two guys are walking through a jungle when they notice that a tiger is chasing them. One of the guys stops walking and starts tying his shoe. The other guy says, "Why are you tying your shoe? You can't outrun that tiger." The other guy says, "I don't have to outrun the tiger. I only have to outrun you."

A 2nd round pick doesn't have to outrun the tiger. It just has to outrun the waiver wire alternative. I'd argue that a good 2nd round pick like Craig Davis, Sidney Rice, Ted Ginn, and Greg Olsen (all chosen in the second round of my league) is a much better long-term investment than most of the guys on the waiver wire.

 
I'm assuming your dynasty league starts at least 8 players. If I figure that the top dozen rounds are where you expect to get production to come from, right now I think the following guys are good bets to be in the top dozen rounds if you drafted right now (that bumps up guys like Clemens. Morency, & Holmes):

2007Too new to even mention2006Santonio HolmesKellen ClemensLeon WashingtonBrandon Marshall2005Marion BarberBrandon JacobsReggie BrownVernand Morency
In a 14 team league that's about a 30% hit rate within 2 years for at least moderate usefulness, or a starting gig, in the case of Morency.It's not great, so if you can trade that pick for a guy you definitely expect to be borderline startable, it's likely a good move.In my 12 teamer, with 3 WR & TE required and 11 IDP starters, a 2nd round pick usually lands a top IDP prospect, or a lesser offensive prospect around the quality of what you have here.
 
You have a couple problems here.One problem is that you're only looking at the last three years. Given that it usually takes prospects anywhere between 1-4 years to reach their peak performance, it doesn't do us a lot of good to only use examples from drafts that happened within the last 30 months. They're nearly useless because we don't yet know whether the players in those drafts are any good.
First of all, most of the second-round turds from >1 year ago have been on the waiver wire, so the draft is not your only chance to get guys like Mark Bradley. More generally, if you are holding onto second rounders for 30 months waiting for them to pan out, you are wasting draft spots that can be used on more promising players.
Your second problem is that you're ignoring owner competence. I would argue that some of the players on your list (Pearman, Lundy, Bell, Houston, McPherson, Humes) were awful picks in the first place. Those guys were all longshots for long-term success. They should not have been chosen in the first two rounds of rookie drafts. That's not just hindsight talking. It's the odds. None of those players were first day draft picks. First day draft picks typically have a much higher success rate than 4th-7th round picks. So people who chose 4th-7th round players over first day players were making a mathematical error in the first place.
This is a little weird. You had Pittman as the #12 RB pre-draft and from what I recall you were a huge McPherson pimper. If you thought that Mike Bell was a horrible second round pick then you are either a genius or an idiot, I'm not sure. But regardless, my point still holds with second round fantasy picks that were first day NFL picks. It's easy to fall in love with potential, but the fact is if they don't do anything in the first 8 weeks of their rookie years, I think they are unlikely to pan out.I think you are really underestimating the turnover issue.In the same league I posted the second-rounders from, there were 240 waiver picks starting on September 1. Out of those 240 picks, there were a number of gems:ColstonCurryCurtisFurreyBerrianDevery HendersonWelkerSammy MorrisRon DayneDemetrius WilliamsI'd much rather have devoted a roster spot to picking up FA's and dropping them if they don't pan out within 3 weeks (would give me 5 X 10 / 240 = 20% at one of those guys) than hold onto somebody like Roddy White or Cedric Houston praying that they eventually put it all together. The number are actually slightly better than that, because a number of the 240 waivers were for total flyers picked up by teams with zero depth (i.e. not the kind of picks anybody would drop a second-rounder for).In the same league I posted the rookie picks from (a MOX league, BTW), there were
 
This is a little weird. You had Pittman as the #12 RB pre-draft and from what I recall you were a huge McPherson pimper.
The #12 RB is generally not a guy you want to use a 2nd round rookie pick on. The talent tends to drop off pretty severely after the top 5-6 backs in a given draft. I never viewed Pittman as a good selection in the 2nd round of this year's rookie drafts. In fact, I thought he was a terrible pick there. As for Mike Bell, it was clear to me from his college career (I had him on my college dynasty team) and his undrafted status that he wasn't going to last as a player in the NFL. He's just not very good.
But regardless, my point still holds with second round fantasy picks that were first day NFL picks. It's easy to fall in love with potential, but the fact is if they don't do anything in the first 8 weeks of their rookie years, I think they are unlikely to pan out.
This is where I really disagree. An owner needs to have some patience with his picks. A lot of the best 2nd-3rd round NFL draft picks didn't contribute much as rookies. Chad Johnson, Bernard Berrian, and Laveranues Coles come to mind immediately.
I think you are really underestimating the turnover issue.In the same league I posted the second-rounders from, there were 240 waiver picks starting on September 1. Out of those 240 picks, there were a number of gems:ColstonCurryCurtisFurreyBerrianDevery HendersonWelkerSammy MorrisRon DayneDemetrius WilliamsI'd much rather have devoted a roster spot to picking up FA's and dropping them if they don't pan out within 3 weeks (would give me 5 X 10 / 240 = 20% at one of those guys) than hold onto somebody like Roddy White or Cedric Houston praying that they eventually put it all together. The number are actually slightly better than that, because a number of the 240 waivers were for total flyers picked up by teams with zero depth (i.e. not the kind of picks anybody would drop a second-rounder for).In the same league I posted the rookie picks from (a MOX league, BTW), there were
Of course, format is a major consideration. Misfits leagues are screwy because the rosters are extremely small and all of the positions besides RB are practically worthless. Obviously in those leagues there's far less incentive to groom a long-term WR prospect than there is in a 25-30 man PPR dynasty with balanced scoring. But Johnny is really talking about the Hyperactive league (I know because I'm in that league too and I saw his waiver moves). That's a different beast entirely because we have 26 man rosters and we use PPR. There aren't many viable options floating around the waiver wire, so there's much more sense in hoarding prospects and being patient with them.
 
This is a little weird. You had Pittman as the #12 RB pre-draft and from what I recall you were a huge McPherson pimper.
The #12 RB is generally not a guy you want to use a 2nd round rookie pick on. The talent tends to drop off pretty severely after the top 5-6 backs in a given draft. I never viewed Pittman as a good selection in the 2nd round of this year's rookie drafts. In fact, I thought he was a terrible pick there.
You had him as the #12 overall rookie, #4 RB.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=309878

None of us is perfect, but I think it's a little disingenuous to claim that people like Pittman and McPherson are idiotic second-round picks when you were big pimpers of both of them. If somebody is smart enough to take Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Anquan Boldin and Marion Barber in round 2 whilst avoiding Matt Jones, Adrian McPherson and Mike Bell, then sure you should hold onto your second round picks. But for mere mortals, the second round (fantasy) is stocked with fools gold.

 
It's an interesting quandary. You make trades in dynasty leagues to obtain picks, a lot of them in the 2nd rd. Then when the season starts you realize that you don't have room for some of these guys because you CAN win now. You have a hard choice to make as to whether to drop a Mike Walker or Jason Hill for the likes of Brandon Stokely and Bobby Engram. Maybe your actions of the past should play into your actions of the future for how you plan to build your team? I'm guilty of this. A lot of teams like to make sure they have a couple of players at the end of their bench that they don't care if they cut, but most of us in dynasty leagues have a hard time cutting guys we perceived as having potential for the future for the sake of winning now. This is what makes dynasty leagues so interesting. If one could only realize their tendencies, they could plan accordingly with the way they trade for picks and draft?
I actually have both Hill and Walker in 2 out of 8 dynastys and like you could use the Vet. presence for spot starting, maybe even sub-par contribution... BUT I always stick to my guns. Demetrius Williams was one of these guys at one point, kinda still is........took up that roster spot forever but you see the light at th end of the tunnel.Its a small price to pay to not have depth this year if you feel like you'll be setting your squad up for consecutive titles down the road.Now if you feel more confident about now than later or want the vets and don't want to throw good prospects to the wayside, Consolidate your 08 picks 2nd rd and up with Walker and Hill and upgrade as many picks as you can to first rounders..... that way your sacrifice is not in vein.Goodluck
 
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It's an interesting quandary. You make trades in dynasty leagues to obtain picks, a lot of them in the 2nd rd. Then when the season starts you realize that you don't have room for some of these guys because you CAN win now. You have a hard choice to make as to whether to drop a Mike Walker or Jason Hill for the likes of Brandon Stokely and Bobby Engram. Maybe your actions of the past should play into your actions of the future for how you plan to build your team? I'm guilty of this. A lot of teams like to make sure they have a couple of players at the end of their bench that they don't care if they cut, but most of us in dynasty leagues have a hard time cutting guys we perceived as having potential for the future for the sake of winning now. This is what makes dynasty leagues so interesting. If one could only realize their tendencies, they could plan accordingly with the way they trade for picks and draft?
I actually have both Hill and Walker in 2 out of 8 dynastys and like you could use the Vet. presence for spot starting, maybe even sub-par contribution... BUT I always stick to my guns. Demetrius Williams was one of these guys at one point, kinda still is........took up that roster spot forever but you see the light at th end of the tunnel.Its a small price to pay to not have depth this year if you feel like you'll be setting your squad up for consecutive titles down the road.Now if you feel more confident about now than later or want the vets and don't want to throw good prospects to the wayside, Consolidate your 08 picks 2nd rd and up with Walker and Hill and upgrade as many picks as you can to first rounders..... that way your sacrifice is not in vein.Goodluck
Actually, the league that I dropped Walker, I got him off the WW. Walker was a 4.02 pick in Hyperactive and I drafted Jason Hill at 2.08 in the same league.
 
It's an interesting quandary. You make trades in dynasty leagues to obtain picks, a lot of them in the 2nd rd. Then when the season starts you realize that you don't have room for some of these guys because you CAN win now. You have a hard choice to make as to whether to drop a Mike Walker or Jason Hill for the likes of Brandon Stokely and Bobby Engram. Maybe your actions of the past should play into your actions of the future for how you plan to build your team? I'm guilty of this. A lot of teams like to make sure they have a couple of players at the end of their bench that they don't care if they cut, but most of us in dynasty leagues have a hard time cutting guys we perceived as having potential for the future for the sake of winning now. This is what makes dynasty leagues so interesting. If one could only realize their tendencies, they could plan accordingly with the way they trade for picks and draft?
I actually have both Hill and Walker in 2 out of 8 dynastys and like you could use the Vet. presence for spot starting, maybe even sub-par contribution... BUT I always stick to my guns. Demetrius Williams was one of these guys at one point, kinda still is........took up that roster spot forever but you see the light at th end of the tunnel.Its a small price to pay to not have depth this year if you feel like you'll be setting your squad up for consecutive titles down the road.Now if you feel more confident about now than later or want the vets and don't want to throw good prospects to the wayside, Consolidate your 08 picks 2nd rd and up with Walker and Hill and upgrade as many picks as you can to first rounders..... that way your sacrifice is not in vein.Goodluck
FYI, Walker is on the WW in 4 of 6 dynasty leagues I'm in, and Hill is on the WW in 3.
 
This is a little weird. You had Pittman as the #12 RB pre-draft and from what I recall you were a huge McPherson pimper.
The #12 RB is generally not a guy you want to use a 2nd round rookie pick on. The talent tends to drop off pretty severely after the top 5-6 backs in a given draft. I never viewed Pittman as a good selection in the 2nd round of this year's rookie drafts. In fact, I thought he was a terrible pick there.
You had him as the #12 overall rookie, #4 RB.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=309878
That was in March. Here are some of my later posts on Pittman:

EBF]16. Antonio Pittman - Mediocre back stuck behind one or two elite talents. Talent + opportunity = pass. Not a chance I'd take him over Greg Olsen' date=' Craig Davis said:
Antonio Pittman' date=' RB, New Orleans - The best case scenario for Pittman is that he holds Reggie Bush's jock for the next five years. Even if Deuce leaves, Pittman isn't nearly as good as Deuce and probably won't be nearly as productive. You can do a lot better at pick 24 in your rookie draft.[/quote']
None of us is perfect, but I think it's a little disingenuous to claim that people like Pittman and McPherson are idiotic second-round picks when you were big pimpers of both of them. If somebody is smart enough to take Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Anquan Boldin and Marion Barber in round 2 whilst avoiding Matt Jones, Adrian McPherson and Mike Bell, then sure you should hold onto your second round picks. But for mere mortals, the second round (fantasy) is stocked with fools gold.
I wasn't in any way shape or form a "big pimper" of Pittman. I initially had him ranked somewhat high, but quickly cooled on him as it became apparent that he wasn't a special talent. I didn't draft him in a single one of my leagues. I made many posts about him being overrated long before he was cut.

McPherson was an idiotic pick and I was an idiot for pimping him. The fact that he fell to the 5th round of the draft should've sent off major red flags.

The 2nd round isn't stocked with fool's gold. It's stocked with players who have about a 35% chance of achieving decent value. I think the odds are higher if you draft smart and only pick prospects who were chosen on the first day of the NFL draft. Very few of the 2nd day guys pan out and a lot of the ones who do are the 4th round picks like Barber, Dom Davis, and Rudi.
[/QUOTE]
 
Good roster management question. In a 25 person dynasty league, I generally attempt to a division of this type

15-16 spots- these are the guys barring weird bye weeks and extreme injury that will be in my line-up. In a start 9 league, the extra players are my top back-up QB, 4 WRs/RBs and TE

5-6 spots- handcuffs/boring veteran WRs/ extra TE/QB/K/Def (many, if not most of my WW moves are from this area)

3-5 spots- hopefuls including draft picks, young QBs, that I am literally burning roster space for. I attempt to hold on to these guys until it is obvious that the player is nothing.

If I am picking up engram or Stokely, my first thought is to cut someone from the middle group. Even if I am thinking that the handful of flyers are not worth anything, I try to wait and see what their team does with them before dumping. Overall, I am attempting to balance guys I can plug into the line-up if needed with guys who might turn into something later.

 
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