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Rightwing Extremist and Rightwing Terrorists (4 Viewers)

Maurile Tremblay said:
Also:

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/
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I posted this further up. Fyi to any, Bellingcat is a very reputable investigative journalism site out of Europe. There was also this prior article from March, referenced in the article.

Due to the “unique” tenor of conversations on /pol and the density of absurd memes 8chan is known for, observers might be compelled to view what’s happened here as more unique and novel than it truly is. The three 8chan massacres do represent an evolution in far-right violence, but they are very much tied to a decades-long tradition of murder. We can see this even in the obsession with “high scores”.

On April 19, 1995, right-wing extremist Timothy McVeigh detonated a truck bomb outside the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people. Four years later, in 1999, Erik Harris and Dylan Klebold killed thirteen of their classmates in Columbine High School in Colorado. Prior to masterminding the attack Erik Harris wrote constantly of his dedication to Hitler and Nazi ideology. Dave Cullen, a journalist who studied the attacks and combed through Harris’s journals, noted that the young killer was also obsessed with Timothy McVeigh. Cullen writes: 

“In his journal, Eric would brag about topping McVeigh. Oklahoma City was a one-note performance. McVeigh set his timer and walked away. He didn’t even see his spectacle unfold.”

Harris and Klebold did not beat McVeigh’s “high score” in their lifetimes. But to date the Columbine attacks have inspired at least 74 copy-cat attacks, which have killed 89 people and injured 126 more. This is the way far right terrorism works: it is foolish, bordering on suicidal, to attribute attacks like the El Paso shooting or the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting to “lone wolves”. Both shooters were radicalized in an ecosystem of right-wing terror that deliberately seeks to inspire such massacres.

The Gilroy shooter specifically referenced “Might is Right”, a white supremacist text by “Ragnar Redbeard”. PDFs of this book have been deliberately spread on 8chan and 4chan for years, and it has become even more popular in the wake of the Gilroy shooting. 

8chan’s /pol board is regularly host to threads filled with right wing extremist literature. This thread, posted fewer than two weeks after the Christchurch massacre, includes a copy of an audiobook of The Turner Diaries, a work of fascist speculative fiction that lays out how a right-wing insurgency based around seemingly random acts of terror could bring down the United States government. 

The Turner Diaries was the favorite book of Timothy McVeigh. He cited passages from it directly in the manifesto he carried with him after bombing the Murrah building.

In the wake of the Christchurch shooting I published my first Bellingcat article about 8chan. I was interviewed by numerous media agencies about the website, and I warned all of them that additional attacks would follow – every month or two – until something was done. This prediction has proven accurate. Until law enforcement, and the media, treat these shooters as part of a terrorist movement no less organized, or deadly, than ISIS or Al Qaeda, the violence will continue. There will be more killers, more gleeful celebration of body counts on 8chan, and more bloody attempts to beat the last killer’s “high score”.
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GoBirds said:
I’m not familiar w 8chan besides reading the manifesto last night, do they think these shooters communicated on there? Why don’t they shut 8chan down, is there anything positive it offers? Does t sound like it. 
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Hard to shut it down. I think its servers are in the Philippines. Also, 8chan itself doesn't produce content. It’s just a largely unmoderated forum.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Hard to shut it down. I think its servers are in the Philippines. Also, 8chan itself doesn't produce content. It’s just a largely unmoderated forum.
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I guess once you shut down one avenue people looking to do this just find another.....I believe some attacks on the past were coordinated over  PlayStation servers? 

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
It seems that Network Solutions and Cloudfare are still providing services to Stormfront.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nazis-are-back-online_n_59d40719e4b06226e3f46941
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I think this article is confirming that Cloudflare cut off access. The controversy right now is why they did it to Stormfront but aren't commenting about 8chan. The article also says Network Solutions cut them off, but the reporters basically caught them at still providing listing service. Nonetheless, SF's founder said, >>“That’s just temporary, though,” Black told HuffPost. “I am moving.”<<

eta - More here.

I'm not sure it was entirely clear to the writers of that piece where Stormfront was being hosted, but it is clear that 8chan is on Cloudflare right now.

-eta2 - Updated article from the Guardian today, defending their providing access to 8chan.

 
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Equating these mass shootings with quotes often used to indicate support for the current President is a trash tactic, disgusting debating practice, and should get one a banning, IMHO. That's utter garbage.  

 
“Once again, a terrorist used 8chan to spread his message as he knew people would save it and spread it,” Fredrick Brennan, who founded 8chan in 2013 but stopped working with the site’s owners in December, told The Washington Post. “The board is a receptive audience for domestic terrorists.”
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The site has survived, extremism experts said, in part due to a reluctance from some law-enforcement and intelligence officials to categorize white-supremacist and far-right movements as terrorism threats. The site has for years been shielded by U.S. laws that limit websites’ legal liability for what their users post and has been further protected by an Internet infrastructure that makes it difficult to take sites down.

Some online researchers also fear that a shutdown of 8chan would only spur hate groups to organize elsewhere. The site’s leaders have appeared emboldened in the face of criticism, adding a message in recent months at the top of its homepage: “Embrace infamy.”

The site is registered as a property of the Nevada-based company N.T. Technology and owned by Jim Watkins, an American Web entrepreneur living in the Philippines. Asked for comment, Watkins replied with a single sentence: “I hope you are well.”

Watkins has declined interview requests after every mass shooting. Following the Christchurch massacre, he released a video defending the site as a refuge for free speech online and referring to the shooter as a criminal alien.

Watkins’s son Ron, who oversees the site, did not respond to requests for comment. He has mocked the idea that 8chan could do more to stop mass violence, tweeting in April: “Deletion within minutes is not enough, apparently.”

After the Poway shooting in April, 8chan’s Twitter account blamed the news media for publicizing the crime and said the suspected shooter’s post was taken down nine minutes after creation. But the board regularly allows posters afterward to promote the shooting, spew hateful comments and cheer on further violence to beat the last attack’s body count, or “high score.”

The Poway suspect wrote before the attack that he’d been visiting 8chan for “a year and a half, yet what I’ve learned here is priceless. It’s been an honor.”

Joan Donovan, the director of the Technology and Social Change Research Project at Harvard University’s Shorenstein Center, said posting to 8chan before a mass shooting has become a “tactical” way for attackers to gain attention and amplify their message.

“Mass shooters can control the public conversation about their motives, while at the same time provide the public with a clear explanation for their actions,” Donovan said.

She pointed to the pattern that has developed in the Christchurch, Poway and El Paso shootings: “1. Post a racist screed. 2. Carry out racist violence. 3. Inspire others to do the same.” Of the manifestos, she said, they “are becoming more instructive than they are explanatory. This has me very worried that targeted violence will become a meme itself.”
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- Wapo

 
This is where the peril of information meets the true speech stalwarts, and the line is drawn between threat and speech, at least as far as 8chan is concerned in the articles that SID is listing. It's the Anarchist's Cookbook of yore.  

 
rockaction said:
Equating these mass shootings with quotes often used to indicate support for the current President is a trash tactic, disgusting debating practice, and should get one a banning, IMHO. That's utter garbage.  
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The shooters are acknowledging their fealty to the president's message which makes the equation fair and truthful.  That you want truth speech shutdown tells me you prefer ignorance.

 
dutch said:
The shooters are acknowledging their fealty to the president's message which makes the equation fair and truthful.  That you want truth speech shutdown tells me you prefer ignorance.
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No. This is the Stealthycat version of the left right now and I won't comment in response. I'll just let it sit here.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Homegrown extremism is here, and it’s a national security issue.
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This is not to poo-poo the suggestion about taking white nationalist extremism seriously; consider this an unchecked lament that we need even more domestic "national security" in our lives. 

I guess I will say this. When we have so many bad actors among the populace, and the damage to cause fatalities at the rate that we do, we better depend on the benevolence of the government in order to establish programs to keep us safe. I have great skepticism towards that notion, though, and can only hope -- pray -- as a citizen that it works rather than having that information collected (which there is sure to be) on us used against us in any way, shape, or form other than to stop real and accurate threats.  

 
rockaction said:
This is not to poo-poo the suggestion about taking white nationalist extremism seriously; consider this an unchecked lament that we need even more domestic "national security" in our lives. 

I guess I will say this. When we have so many bad actors among the populace, and the damage to cause fatalities at the rate that we do, we better depend on the benevolence of the government in order to establish programs to keep us safe. I have great skepticism towards that notion, though, and can only hope -- pray -- as a citizen that it works rather than having that information collected (which there is sure to be) on us used against us in any way, shape, or form other than to stop real and accurate threats.  
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Our freedoms that make us great are being weaponized against us by us. I do wonder how many of these 8chan users are foreign people with devious motives.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Yeah
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Exactly this.  Trump was interviewed before his Cincinnati rally and was asked if people start chanting "lock her up" or any other kind of dangerous rhetoric if he would tell the audience to stop.  His response "I don't know what they are going to do". He repeated that several times. He refused to say "yes". 

 
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Ilov80s said:
Our freedoms that make us great are being weaponized against us by us. I do wonder how many of these 8chan users are foreign people with devious motives.
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I totally agree with this. This has been the case for quite a while. During the Cold War it was considered a weakness, too, but people saw our freedom and longed to come to the fore. Now, with the society we have, we don't look so peaceful nor so open. We look like a military state to an outsider.  

 
rockaction said:
I totally agree with this. This has been the case for quite a while. During the Cold War it was considered a weakness, too, but people saw our freedom and longed to come to the fore. Now, with the society we have, we don't look so peaceful nor so open. We look like a military state to an outsider.  
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Yes and I wonder how much of this a continuation of that Cold War. If one goes to Xchan or whatever websites that circulate hate, far flung radical conspiracies, cheer on shooters, etc. how many of those extreme users are Americans and how many are foreign agents looking to radicalize Americans. Has there been info on this from the Russian investigations? We know actors tried to stage protests and counter protesters here, it makes logical sense they are also trying to trigger individuals into violence. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Yes and I wonder how much of this a continuation of that Cold War. If one goes to Xchan or whatever websites that circulate hate, far flung radical conspiracies, cheer on shooters, etc. how many of those extreme users are Americans and how many are foreign agents looking to radicalize Americans. Has there been info on this from the Russian investigations? We know actors tried to stage protests and counter protesters here, it makes logical sense they are also trying to trigger individuals into violence. 
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Yeah, it makes you wonder. I am not sure about either the root cause or continuation of the Cold War nor could I ever accurately imagine the level to which disinformation tactics that you describe are being used by foreign agents.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Yep, just on Thursday.

FBI document warns conspiracy theories are a new domestic terrorism threat
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“The FBI assesses these conspiracy theories very likely will emerge, spread, and evolve in the modern information marketplace, occasionally driving both groups and individual extremists to carry out criminal or violent acts,” the document states. It also goes on to say the FBI believes conspiracy theory-driven extremists are likely to increase during the 2020 presidential election cycle."

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Yep, just on Thursday.

FBI document warns conspiracy theories are a new domestic terrorism threat
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Crazy that this is going on and at the same time a speaker at the Trump rally in Cinci on Thursday said the QAnon slogan. I think Q crowd is often present at the Trump rallies and ofcourse Trump has had some of the QAnon leaders in the Oval Office before. I hope someone asks the President about this because it's a pretty screwed up situation to have the FBI saying a group is a potential terror threat and the President courting them. 

 
Amused to Death said:
“The FBI assesses these conspiracy theories very likely will emerge, spread, and evolve in the modern information marketplace, occasionally driving both groups and individual extremists to carry out criminal or violent acts,” the document states. It also goes on to say the FBI believes conspiracy theory-driven extremists are likely to increase during the 2020 presidential election cycle."
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Hours after an FBI warning about QAnon is published, a QAnon slogan turns up at Trump’s rally

 
Utter blankety-blank garbage, and anybody doing it should be ashamed of themselves and any sort of addition of that nature to public discourse should be met with grave skepticism, if not outright scorn. It's a dirty debate tactic, and it is not only a fallacy, it's just wrong.

 
Ilov80s said:
Crazy that this is going on and at the same time a speaker at the Trump rally in Cinci on Thursday said the QAnon slogan. I think Q crowd is often present at the Trump rallies and ofcourse Trump has had some of the QAnon leaders in the Oval Office before. I hope someone asks the President about this because it's a pretty screwed up situation to have the FBI saying a group is a potential terror threat and the President courting them. 
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Yeah, but Obama had rappers. 

Yes...this definitely (along with so many other things) need to jeep being exposed and discussed.  Expose what the NRA is doing.  Expose the bills that are sitting in the senate that wont be brought for discussion or vote.

Ill be spending some time calling and emailing my senators and representatives.  Will it matter?  Maybe not...but of enough keep telling them its tome to change or be replaced its worth the try.

 


rockaction said:
Utter blankety-blank garbage, and anybody doing it should be ashamed of themselves and any sort of addition of that nature to public discourse should be met with grave skepticism, if not outright scorn. It's a dirty debate tactic, and it is not only a fallacy, it's just wrong.
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When people heed the call to action it is folly to erase the call and attend only the action; both work in synergy whether you dare approve it or not.

 
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rockaction said:
Equating these mass shootings with quotes often used to indicate support for the current President is a trash tactic, disgusting debating practice, and should get one a banning, IMHO. That's utter garbage.  
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What exactly do you mean here?  Can you give me an example of someone equating a mass shooting with something someone's said....I'm a bit confused as to your point.

 
Looks like Trump deleted every Tweet where he referred to immigrants as “invaders”. Can anyone confirm? 

ETA: bad info from me, he did not delete those tweets

 
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GoBirds said:
I don’t do tweeter but this would be good wouldn’t it?
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Yes but it’s also an acknowledgment that he screwed up. People don’t delete month or year old tweets unless they are trying to hide something.

ETA: looks like he did not delete the tweets, so bad info on my part

 
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Ilov80s said:
Yes but it’s also an acknowledgment that he screwed up. People don’t delete month or year old tweets unless they are trying to hide something.
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Wouldn’t you rather have an acknowledgement it wasn’t a good idea given these events than more of it? Not sure how it would be hiding something that’s been out there for however long. 

 
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