Rise of the Quarterback? (1 Viewer)

[GridironMenace]

I take the most points possible in the 1st round. That is a top 4 QB. Instantly I am up 200+ points over your 1st round pick.

This is pretty dumb and clearly identifies your lack of understanding VBD. Who in the world compares points from each round? That is just stupid. This year you could take your Aaron Rodgers at pick #7 and I'll gladly take my McCoy or Foster. The fact that Rodgers will outscore McCoy means absolutely nothing. What matters is adding the points scored from my Matthew Stafford in round 6 vs. your scrub HB that you drafted in round 6 Ryan Grant. I'll take my Stafford/McCoy vs. your Rodgers/Grant any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Get in the ring, son. Get in the ring!

Your strategy assumes you're going to hit on landing an elite RB at the end of round 1. There is a higher likelihood that whatever RB you take there will bust or get hurt. Sure, in hindsight, the McCoy pick is brilliant there, but in that range you could've easily picked McFadden, Mendenhall, or Charles, and where would that "value" have gotten you? If you can correctly pick next year's McCoy, then yeah it's a sound strategy. But picking a consistent high scorer in the first round in order to lower your percentage of busting is not a losing strategy.

It also isn't a winning strategy. There are a lot of people that took Rivers early in round 2. How did that work out? There are also a ton of people that picked Cam Newton off of the waiver wire. Drafted Eli Manning in round 9. Drafted Big Ben in round 7. You are cherry picking the fact that Aaron Rodgers had the best fantasy football season ever. Not to mention comparing to drafting Aaron Rodgers with a top 4 pick to drafting HB's that weren't drafted with a top pick.Fact is that more than ever there are a lot of QB's with incredible upside (Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Rivers, Cam, Stafford, Vick, Romo). That is 10 right there and doesn't even include Matt Ryan and whoever else I'm forgetting. The fact is that I'll take my chances with a 1st round HB/WR and pair them with my round 5/6 Romo. If you want to take the easy way out, then feel free to roll the dice and try to hit the lottery on a round 5,6,7 HB. My odds of hitting a round 1 HB with a stud QB in round 6 are much higher than you drafting Rodgers and a praying to hit with a round 6 HB.

 

[FavreCo]

I take the most points possible in the 1st round. That is a top 4 QB. Instantly I am up 200+ points over your 1st round pick.

This is pretty dumb and clearly identifies your lack of understanding VBD. Who in the world compares points from each round? That is just stupid. This year you could take your Aaron Rodgers at pick #7 and I'll gladly take my McCoy or Foster. The fact that Rodgers will outscore McCoy means absolutely nothing. What matters is adding the points scored from my Matthew Stafford in round 6 vs. your scrub HB that you drafted in round 6 Ryan Grant. I'll take my Stafford/McCoy vs. your Rodgers/Grant any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Get in the ring, son. Get in the ring!

Your strategy assumes you're going to hit on landing an elite RB at the end of round 1. There is a higher likelihood that whatever RB you take there will bust or get hurt. Sure, in hindsight, the McCoy pick is brilliant there, but in that range you could've easily picked McFadden, Mendenhall, or Charles, and where would that "value" have gotten you? If you can correctly pick next year's McCoy, then yeah it's a sound strategy. But picking a consistent high scorer in the first round in order to lower your percentage of busting is not a losing strategy.

He has no clue.

 

[GridironMenace]

I take the most points possible in the 1st round. That is a top 4 QB. Instantly I am up 200+ points over your 1st round pick.

This is pretty dumb and clearly identifies your lack of understanding VBD. Who in the world compares points from each round? That is just stupid. This year you could take your Aaron Rodgers at pick #7 and I'll gladly take my McCoy or Foster. The fact that Rodgers will outscore McCoy means absolutely nothing. What matters is adding the points scored from my Matthew Stafford in round 6 vs. your scrub HB that you drafted in round 6 Ryan Grant. I'll take my Stafford/McCoy vs. your Rodgers/Grant any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Get in the ring, son. Get in the ring!

Your strategy assumes you're going to hit on landing an elite RB at the end of round 1. There is a higher likelihood that whatever RB you take there will bust or get hurt. Sure, in hindsight, the McCoy pick is brilliant there, but in that range you could've easily picked McFadden, Mendenhall, or Charles, and where would that "value" have gotten you? If you can correctly pick next year's McCoy, then yeah it's a sound strategy. But picking a consistent high scorer in the first round in order to lower your percentage of busting is not a losing strategy.

This.I pick 11th in a 12 man redraft next year. Rice, McCoy, Foster, MJD and Forte are all gone along with another couple RBs that are looking promising. So which RB would you like me to take? McFadden? Charles? CJ1K? I'll take the safety of a top 5QB over any of those risky RB options.

I didn't realize that you weren't allowed to take a top 3 WR...

 

[Jed]

I take the most points possible in the 1st round. That is a top 4 QB. Instantly I am up 200+ points over your 1st round pick.

This is pretty dumb and clearly identifies your lack of understanding VBD. Who in the world compares points from each round? That is just stupid. This year you could take your Aaron Rodgers at pick #7 and I'll gladly take my McCoy or Foster. The fact that Rodgers will outscore McCoy means absolutely nothing. What matters is adding the points scored from my Matthew Stafford in round 6 vs. your scrub HB that you drafted in round 6 Ryan Grant. I'll take my Stafford/McCoy vs. your Rodgers/Grant any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Get in the ring, son. Get in the ring!

Your strategy assumes you're going to hit on landing an elite RB at the end of round 1. There is a higher likelihood that whatever RB you take there will bust or get hurt. Sure, in hindsight, the McCoy pick is brilliant there, but in that range you could've easily picked McFadden, Mendenhall, or Charles, and where would that "value" have gotten you? If you can correctly pick next year's McCoy, then yeah it's a sound strategy. But picking a consistent high scorer in the first round in order to lower your percentage of busting is not a losing strategy.

Not only is he saying he will pick the McCoys of the world, but his competitor will pick the Ryan Grants in Rd 6. What if he's picking the Gronks?Stud QB for me in the 1st round next year if I can swing it.I went DMC late round 1 when I could have had Brees. Was I pretty sure both would have great years? Yes. But one is in a position much more likely to be injured than another. My mistake that I won't make again. This ain't 1995 and I need to pound that into my head.

 

[FavreCo]

I take the most points possible in the 1st round. That is a top 4 QB. Instantly I am up 200+ points over your 1st round pick.

This is pretty dumb and clearly identifies your lack of understanding VBD. Who in the world compares points from each round? That is just stupid. This year you could take your Aaron Rodgers at pick #7 and I'll gladly take my McCoy or Foster. The fact that Rodgers will outscore McCoy means absolutely nothing. What matters is adding the points scored from my Matthew Stafford in round 6 vs. your scrub HB that you drafted in round 6 Ryan Grant. I'll take my Stafford/McCoy vs. your Rodgers/Grant any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Get in the ring, son. Get in the ring!

Your strategy assumes you're going to hit on landing an elite RB at the end of round 1. There is a higher likelihood that whatever RB you take there will bust or get hurt. Sure, in hindsight, the McCoy pick is brilliant there, but in that range you could've easily picked McFadden, Mendenhall, or Charles, and where would that "value" have gotten you? If you can correctly pick next year's McCoy, then yeah it's a sound strategy. But picking a consistent high scorer in the first round in order to lower your percentage of busting is not a losing strategy.

This.I pick 11th in a 12 man redraft next year. Rice, McCoy, Foster, MJD and Forte are all gone along with another couple RBs that are looking promising. So which RB would you like me to take? McFadden? Charles? CJ1K? I'll take the safety of a top 5QB over any of those risky RB options.

I didn't realize that you weren't allowed to take a top 3 WR...

he will do that on the turn into round 2. He will get the max points in round 1 and that top 3 WR in round 2, 3 picks later.Our round 2 RB in a 14 team league (McFadden) at #19 took a big ole #### on us. Easily the #1 and primary RB for Oakland.

 

[butcher boy]

I'm not cherry picking Rodgers. The same applies to Brady and Brees. The bottom line is you have a much higher percentage of landing an elite fantasy player if you had gone QB late in round 1 this year than if you had followed "value" and gone RB. I don't see this situation changing next year. If I have a late first round pick, it's going to come down to guys like McFadden and Lynch at RB who I have no reason to trust will not bust, or Rodgers, Brees, and Brady at QB. To me its a no-brainer.

It's all about the reliability of those late first round backs, and I'm really beginning to sour on them.

 

[FavreCo]

I take the most points possible in the 1st round. That is a top 4 QB. Instantly I am up 200+ points over your 1st round pick.

This is pretty dumb and clearly identifies your lack of understanding VBD. Who in the world compares points from each round? That is just stupid. This year you could take your Aaron Rodgers at pick #7 and I'll gladly take my McCoy or Foster. The fact that Rodgers will outscore McCoy means absolutely nothing. What matters is adding the points scored from my Matthew Stafford in round 6 vs. your scrub HB that you drafted in round 6 Ryan Grant. I'll take my Stafford/McCoy vs. your Rodgers/Grant any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Get in the ring, son. Get in the ring!

Your strategy assumes you're going to hit on landing an elite RB at the end of round 1. There is a higher likelihood that whatever RB you take there will bust or get hurt. Sure, in hindsight, the McCoy pick is brilliant there, but in that range you could've easily picked McFadden, Mendenhall, or Charles, and where would that "value" have gotten you? If you can correctly pick next year's McCoy, then yeah it's a sound strategy. But picking a consistent high scorer in the first round in order to lower your percentage of busting is not a losing strategy.

Not only is he saying he will pick the McCoys of the world, but his competitor will pick the Ryan Grants in Rd 6. What if he's picking the Gronks?Stud QB for me in the 1st round next year if I can swing it.I went DMC late round 1 when I could have had Brees. Was I pretty sure both would have great years? Yes. But one is in a position much more likely to be injured than another. My mistake that I won't make again. This ain't 1995 and I need to pound that into my head.

In this one league we are in, we took Brees in the 1st, followed that up with Lynch in the 2nd, Gronk in the 3rd, Sproles in the 4th, Cruz in the 5th, Nelson in the 6th, We destroyeed the league and set the world record for fantasy points. We hit the jackpot every round.Is that what you are trying to say?

 

[FavreCo]

the only way we don't take a QB in round 1 is if we are picking at the end of the round and Brees, Brady, Rodgers and Stafford are gone. Then we go best WR or RB available in round 1 and probably 2 but one of the top 4 has alays been there.

 

[hotboyz]

I believe what won me my title was pickin big Ben and stafford in the 6th an 7th rds then scooping Cam as a FA then trading stafford for Matthews and fitz. I had the 3rd overall pick which i took rice(strongly considered megaton there) I took rice knowing I could get a stafford in the 6th rd that's where I targeted him but going into next season I don't see that mid round QB gem available I may really consider going top Qb in the top of rd 1 in my league the 1 qb out scored the #1 RB by 230 pts that's insane

 

[kerpow]

I used to wait until the 6th or 7th round to grab my QB and it rarely hindered me to take the 10th or 11th QB off the board. Now, I'm looking to fill that spot in the 3rd round and grab a guy in the 5th to 7th range. This season is a good example, drafted RB-RB-QB and landed Romo. He did pretty well and there wasn't much of a drop off between him and the tops guys. My RBs were significantly better than they guys who took a QB in the 1st or 2nd round, I can assure you.

 

[hotboyz]

Kerpow I hear what you are saying and I use to think like that as well but look beyond 3 rds if u land a top 3 qb and follow that up with a top 5 wr and top 3 te are you sure you are out scoring me? sure u have a better rb stable but I'll have better qb and wr then I can get a marshawn lynch type in the 5th rd that team would be hard to beat!

 

[Shutout]

A lot depends on the scoring system. But in general, grabbing a stud QB early is becoming a very viable strategy, if not a recommended one. In one of my leagues (10 teams) here were the top 6 QB values computed as worst starter method. This league has 1 pt /25 yds passing and 4 pts per TD passRodgers 177Brees 171Brady 136Newton 133Stafford 120E Manning 63Top 6 RB values were (PPR league, start 2RB)Rice 191McCoy 146Foster 125MJD 114Sproles 83Lynch 59To 6 WR values were (PPR league, start 3WR)Calvin 189Welker 161Cruz 120J Nelson 117White 100Fitzgerald 93Values are fairly similar. But the key is Rodgers, Brees, and Brady were all early picks where only Vick was a bust out of the early picked QBs. At the RB position, Rice, McCoy and Foster were early selections...but you could have chosen Chris Johnson, AP, McFadden, Charles or Mendenhall who were all 1st round busts due to injury or lack of elite performance. At WR position, Calvin, White and Fitz were early picks but you would have busted on AJ, Nicks, and V Jackson, and Jennings got hurt.So based on early picks, you have about a 75% hit rate on QBs, and 50% at best at RB or WR positions. So that should entice more 1st round stud QB draft selections. You know what you're getting and the bust rate is fairly low. In fact we all knew about Vick's injury risk, so the rate is even higher than 75%. Seriously, is there any reason why Rodgers won't throw for 4500+ yards and 37+ TDs next year? Injury is the only reason. It's not like GB is all of sudden going to start running the ball. You can say the same about Brees and Brady. Newton will be a slight risk as a 1st round QB, but he should cut down his INTs and increse his passing TDs to make up for a likely lower rushing TD total.Now this analysis is with 4 pts per TD pass and PPR. Non PPR leagues or PPR leagues with QBs scoring 6 points per TD pass will make you lean even more towards a 1st round QB. In fact in a nonPPR league with 6 points per TD pass, I take Rodgers #1 overall and not look back. With 6 pts per TD pass and PPR, it would be a tough call between Rice and Rodgers and I wouldn't fault anyone for picking the other side.Yes, the days of drafting 2RBs early is gone. And it's made drafts a lot more fun and interesting.

I really like this posting. by the numbers, it makes a lot of sense to me. I guess my closest experience that drives the point home to me is, even this year, as a Foster owner, he did great and he WAS an advantage. But there was a month of this season where he was out or a big risk and that cost me big time. On the other hand, had I drafted rodgers at the 7 spot (Foster fell due to the unknown injury status), I would have been better off all year I think (I don't know what RB I would have ended up with but there were a lot of guys that put up good enough numbers this year where a Rodgers/Insert RB here would have been as good as Foster/Matt ryan or Ryan Fitzpatrick type.I guess overall I am just seeing that the points potential for a handful of QBs is SO large right now that by the time you consider most DO NOT miss games now (they are so protected), that its less risk and very high reward. Peyton manning missing the year was a shock to many this year. But him aside, it just seems like each and every year there are a handful of QBs you can take and don't worry about at all. Then there are guys that can perform but you worry about missing time (Romo, Stafford, Vick, Shaub), but seems like if you take Brees, Rodgers, Manning usually, Brady, Rivers, then you know you're ok. But if you take DMAC or SJAX or the like, then you kinda know you're missing some time somewhere. And now with significant question marks on ADP, CJ2k, Charles..and the age of Turner and Benson and SJAX and FJAX and some of these guys that have been very solid but are older, there are really only a FEW RBS that you can feel pretty good about (Foster, McCoy, Rice).

 

[Reepicheep]

Guys like Rodgers and Brees have been money in the bank over the last few years. Brees has gone 1,2,6,1 and Rodgers 2,1,2,2 in FBG scoring. That's insane consistency. As others have said the bust factor with RBs is much higher and there is absolutely something to be said for playing it safe with your first round pick and grabbing one of those two guys.

I have only been playing FF for 5 years now, but anecdotally, my first several years teams were pretty crappy and I was always shuffling crappy waiver-wire QBs. The past two years I have rode Rodgers and Brees to championships.

 

[Menace]

Won my championship two years ago drafting A.Rodgers in the first round (3rd really, if you consider it is a two player keeper league). Tried to repeat that success this year by taking Vick early. That was a BIG mistake. Didn't help that I drafted Wayne and Ingram either.

 

[Bird]

Remember when the top 18 RB would be drafted within the first 24 picks? Those days are thankfully over. This year has definitely changed my philosophy for projections for next season. Usually, my QB projections are loosely based upon 4000/25 being an above average year but this year's numbers blow those away and I see the trend continuing. If you have multiple QBs over 4500/30 then the elite guys are going to have insanely high VBD numbers as the rise in stats for QB10 through QB14 seems to be much flatter. The elite WR position seems to have been affected most by the increase in QB yards. The QB is garnering all those extra fantasy points from increased passing but the numbers are being spread over more WR and TE. QB value is surmounting WR value while RB value seems to be about the same but unable to keep up with the rising QB values. I think as people adjust their projections for these outlandish QB numbers then you will see many drafts having 3-4 QB, 4-6 RB and 2-3 WR selected in the first round. To me, this is a good thing as it allows for multiple ways to construct a team on draft day.

 

[kface]

we had a huge discussion about this in our league yesterday. the difference in pts in the top person and the #10 person at the same position are below

QB = 202

WR = 111

RB = 134

TE = 139

rodgers, the top qb had 476 total pts this season

ray rice, the top rb, had 303 total pts this season

megatron, the top wr had 274 total pts this season

you can see that the drop off at qb is huge and they are well worth a top pick

Not necessarily. What we can see is that the dropoff between #1 and #10 across all positions was greatest at QB...this year. Also, just saying #1 vs. #10, those are just arbitrary points on the continuum and not a full-proof map for you to use when making decisions next year.

To be fair, nothing is a fool proof map for drafting in fantasy. If something was these leagues would be no fun. I used the number 10 position because we are in a 10 team league. So if you end up with the number 10 qb, you need to make up an additional 200 pts up at the other positions. You can see that it can be extremely hard because the spread between the players isn't as great (assuming that the top 10 even perform the way they are supposed to).

And as others have said...brees and rodgers, and borderline brady are practically locks. The number of locks (not even considering injuries) at the rb and wr positions is very quickly dwindling. I have the number 2 pick next year in a keeper league where brees and rodgers are both kepth. Its a choice between chris johnson, megatron and brady....right now i would lean megatron only because the drop off in wr is very fast. I wouldn't touch chris johnson with the #2 pick

 

[FantasyTrader]

we had a huge discussion about this in our league yesterday. the difference in pts in the top person and the #10 person at the same position are below

QB = 202

WR = 111

RB = 134

TE = 139

rodgers, the top qb had 476 total pts this season

ray rice, the top rb, had 303 total pts this season

megatron, the top wr had 274 total pts this season

you can see that the drop off at qb is huge and they are well worth a top pick

Not necessarily. What we can see is that the dropoff between #1 and #10 across all positions was greatest at QB...this year. Also, just saying #1 vs. #10, those are just arbitrary points on the continuum and not a full-proof map for you to use when making decisions next year.

To be fair, nothing is a fool proof map for drafting in fantasy. If something was these leagues would be no fun. I used the number 10 position because we are in a 10 team league. So if you end up with the number 10 qb, you need to make up an additional 200 pts up at the other positions. You can see that it can be extremely hard because the spread between the players isn't as great (assuming that the top 10 even perform the way they are supposed to).

And as others have said...brees and rodgers, and borderline brady are practically locks. The number of locks (not even considering injuries) at the rb and wr positions is very quickly dwindling. I have the number 2 pick next year in a keeper league where brees and rodgers are both kepth. Its a choice between chris johnson, megatron and brady....right now i would lean megatron only because the drop off in wr is very fast. I wouldn't touch chris johnson with the #2 pick

I can't argue with any of that.

 

[Shutout]

Remember when the top 18 RB would be drafted within the first 24 picks? Those days are thankfully over. This year has definitely changed my philosophy for projections for next season. Usually, my QB projections are loosely based upon 4000/25 being an above average year but this year's numbers blow those away and I see the trend continuing. If you have multiple QBs over 4500/30 then the elite guys are going to have insanely high VBD numbers as the rise in stats for QB10 through QB14 seems to be much flatter. The elite WR position seems to have been affected most by the increase in QB yards. The QB is garnering all those extra fantasy points from increased passing but the numbers are being spread over more WR and TE. QB value is surmounting WR value while RB value seems to be about the same but unable to keep up with the rising QB values. I think as people adjust their projections for these outlandish QB numbers then you will see many drafts having 3-4 QB, 4-6 RB and 2-3 WR selected in the first round. To me, this is a good thing as it allows for multiple ways to construct a team on draft day.

Yeah, that would be a good thing for leagues. I wonder IF this type of scenario does indeed play out if that actually gives the advantage to teams drafting later in the draft now (because its not nearly as important to have a top RB but now those RBs get pushed down to where teams can take them on the turn).

 

[Warrior]

My early Fantasy football life was dominated by the axiom that RBs were the alpha and Omega of FF success.

Then, over the past several years, with the advent of more sophisticated fantasy leagues and a real-life trend of RBBC in the NFL, WRs and sometimes even the occasional TE in the right scenario has balanced that out or even made the occasional argument that the RB was bumpde from his perch a bit.

And now, with another Real-life movement of various rules and offensive and defensive philosophies, it seems that fantasy football may actually be on the same page as real-life consensus in that a dominant QB wins championships.

By a wide margin, more than any time in my years of playing FF, this year's playoff contenders were dominated by the big QBs. It really didn't seem to matter if teams have depth or balance or other things that made them have a great lineup, the teams with the elite QBsall seemed to push into the championship games in the leagues I know (and several on the boards here have mentioned the Brees, Bradys, Newtons, Rodgers, etc dominating their playoffs too).

So, with the trend and rules seemingly firmly in place in this new pass-happy "don't touch 'em" NFL, is there more importance for the forseeable future to focus on top QBs in leagues?

Reality - yes. Fantasy - no.Just as many Newtons and Tebows in the fantasy playoffs this year as Bradys, Brees' and Rodgers'.

 

[theplayer11]

My league doesn't have "standard/traditional" scoring, but it's not that far off. It awards bonuses for 300 yard passing games, 400 yards, TDs over 20 yards, TDs over 50 yards, 20 completions in a game, and for 30 completions. Each "bonus" is small, though, either 2 or 3 points.

That scoring is very far off.

 

[Reepicheep]

My league doesn't have "standard/traditional" scoring, but it's not that far off. It awards bonuses for 300 yard passing games, 400 yards, TDs over 20 yards, TDs over 50 yards, 20 completions in a game, and for 30 completions. Each "bonus" is small, though, either 2 or 3 points.

That scoring is very far off.

Yeah I would think scoring like that would make elite QBs even more valuable.

 

[General Tso]

Just look at how many great QB1s there will be next year:Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Stafford, CamRomo, Eli, Rivers, Ben, Peyton?, Vick, RyanThats 12 "sure thing" QB1s. Which means if you wait you will still get a great QB. The thing is the guys in the 1st section are head and shoulders over the guys in the second section. Id still like to secure one of those.

That's hogwash. If you wait you will not get a great QB. You'll get an average QB that scores about HALF of what the top tier QB will score.I waited this year and drafted a solid RB core early - CJ, McFadden, and McCoy. I got Big Ben for my QB later on. Ben finished 12th in my league at QB. And get this - if you combine the point totals for my 3 top RB picks AND add in Big Ben - you get roughly the same total points that Drew Brees put up all by himself.

 

[shadyridr]

Just look at how many great QB1s there will be next year:Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Stafford, CamRomo, Eli, Rivers, Ben, Peyton?, Vick, RyanThats 12 "sure thing" QB1s. Which means if you wait you will still get a great QB. The thing is the guys in the 1st section are head and shoulders over the guys in the second section. Id still like to secure one of those.

That's hogwash. If you wait you will not get a great QB. You'll get an average QB that scores about HALF of what the top tier QB will score.I waited this year and drafted a solid RB core early - CJ, McFadden, and McCoy. I got Big Ben for my QB later on. Ben finished 12th in my league at QB. And get this - if you combine the point totals for my 3 top RB picks AND add in Big Ben - you get roughly the same total points that Drew Brees put up all by himself.

huh? did you read my whole post? i said the guys im the first half are head and shoulders above the other guys and advocate not waiting.

 

[shadyridr]

Just look at how many great QB1s there will be next year:Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Stafford, CamRomo, Eli, Rivers, Ben, Peyton?, Vick, RyanThats 12 "sure thing" QB1s. Which means if you wait you will still get a great QB. The thing is the guys in the 1st section are head and shoulders over the guys in the second section. Id still like to secure one of those.

That's hogwash. If you wait you will not get a great QB. You'll get an average QB that scores about HALF of what the top tier QB will score.I waited this year and drafted a solid RB core early - CJ, McFadden, and McCoy. I got Big Ben for my QB later on. Ben finished 12th in my league at QB. And get this - if you combine the point totals for my 3 top RB picks AND add in Big Ben - you get roughly the same total points that Drew Brees put up all by himself.

and for your second point. how the #### did you draft cj, mccoy, and dmc early? sounds like youre lyin to me. what if your late qb was cam or stafford instead of ben?