Rivers over Brady for AFC in Pro Bowl (1 Viewer)

[Pack43]

So, the fact that Rivers has led his team to more wins THIS YEAR is immaterial to the debate?

I guess we could start another thread Colin about who led who to these victories? I may be wrong, but don't you think San Diego has the MVP at running back on their team. He may have had the greatest season a running back has ever had, I could easily argue that he led the team. I think a lot would agree.

I think you're getting a bit carried away here. This isn't a situation where SD is winning in spite of poor QB play (e.g. '05 Bears). Rivers has played very well and deserves some credit for that record. What would Rivers have to do for you to consider him worthy of a Pro Bowl selection given that he's on the same team as LT? Should he be ineligible? What other QBs should not be considered due to good/great supporting players?What's amazing to me is how so many people said that letting Brees go was a huge mistake, that Rivers and the team would struggle. Now it's as if the QB position doesn't even matter since they have LT. Why were people concerned about Rivers to start with?

 

[Banger]

So, the fact that Rivers has led his team to more wins THIS YEAR is immaterial to the debate?

I guess we could start another thread Colin about who led who to these victories? I may be wrong, but don't you think San Diego has the MVP at running back on their team. He may have had the greatest season a running back has ever had, I could easily argue that he led the team. I think a lot would agree.

I think you're getting a bit carried away here. This isn't a situation where SD is winning in spite of poor QB play (e.g. '05 Bears). Rivers has played very well and deserves some credit for that record. What would Rivers have to do for you to consider him worthy of a Pro Bowl selection given that he's on the same team as LT? Shoud he be ineligible? What other QBs should not be considered due to good/great supporting players?What's amazing to me is how so many people said that letting Brees go was a huge mistake, that Rivers and the team would struggle. Now it's as if the QB position doesn't even matter since they have LT. Why were people concerned about Rivers to start with?

also, consider that the Chargers have lost two teams (Ravens/Chiefs both on the road) by a total of 5 pts (I believe) both in the last minutes of the game. Shoulda, woulda, coulda but they could easily be undefeated.

 

[Colin Dowling]

So, the fact that Rivers has led his team to more wins THIS YEAR is immaterial to the debate?

I guess we could start another thread Colin about who led who to these victories? I may be wrong, but don't you think San Diego has the MVP at running back on their team. He may have had the greatest season a running back has ever had, I could easily argue that he led the team. I think a lot would agree.

I must have misunderstood. I thought you had stated that Brady being so adept at winning was one of the things that qualified him for the Pro Bowl.I'm not debating that Brady is a fantastic quarterback. Nor am I debating that he is probably a better player then Rivers. I think a case can EASILY be made for both points. I do, however, seem to think that a selection of Rivers at Brady's expense is not unjustified as Rivers has certainly had an excellent season.

 

[Workhorse]

That's ridiculous. There isn't a person alive, in the NFL or watching it on TV, that doesn't "respect" the Patriots more than just about every other franchise. Similarly, NO team gets as much love in the print/imedia and television press as the Patriots. It's not even close.I realize it's part of the athlete nomenclature, and it's not unique to Brady to say that, but that's insane.

I think we need to draw the distinction between respecting the Patriots as a team/organization and respecting the individual players as a part of that team. Everyone respects the Patriots but do they really respect the individual players, outside of Richard Seymour and Tom Brady?You've got to admit, it's a little odd to see a 10-4 team with only one Pro Bowler.

 

[Banger]

That's ridiculous. There isn't a person alive, in the NFL or watching it on TV, that doesn't "respect" the Patriots more than just about every other franchise. Similarly, NO team gets as much love in the print/imedia and television press as the Patriots. It's not even close.I realize it's part of the athlete nomenclature, and it's not unique to Brady to say that, but that's insane.

I think we need to draw the distinction between respecting the Patriots as a team/organization and respecting the individual players as a part of that team. Everyone respects the Patriots but do they really respect the individual players, outside of Richard Seymour and Tom Brady?You've got to admit, it's a little odd to see a 10-4 team with only one Pro Bowler.

who else should have made it?

 

[Colin Dowling]

That's ridiculous. There isn't a person alive, in the NFL or watching it on TV, that doesn't "respect" the Patriots more than just about every other franchise. Similarly, NO team gets as much love in the print/imedia and television press as the Patriots. It's not even close.I realize it's part of the athlete nomenclature, and it's not unique to Brady to say that, but that's insane.

I think we need to draw the distinction between respecting the Patriots as a team/organization and respecting the individual players as a part of that team. Everyone respects the Patriots but do they really respect the individual players, outside of Richard Seymour and Tom Brady?You've got to admit, it's a little odd to see a 10-4 team with only one Pro Bowler.

who else should have made it?

Izzo is always a solid choice. But outside of Brady, I'm not sure who else I would have put on the ballot that is a Patriot.

 

[Despyzer]

That's ridiculous. There isn't a person alive, in the NFL or watching it on TV, that doesn't "respect" the Patriots more than just about every other franchise. Similarly, NO team gets as much love in the print/imedia and television press as the Patriots. It's not even close.I realize it's part of the athlete nomenclature, and it's not unique to Brady to say that, but that's insane.

I think we need to draw the distinction between respecting the Patriots as a team/organization and respecting the individual players as a part of that team. Everyone respects the Patriots but do they really respect the individual players, outside of Richard Seymour and Tom Brady?You've got to admit, it's a little odd to see a 10-4 team with only one Pro Bowler.

who else should have made it?

Izzo is always a solid choice. But outside of Brady, I'm not sure who else I would have put on the ballot that is a Patriot.

I'd put Dan Koppen in there. He's really about as good of a center as there is in the AFC.

 

[Workhorse]

That's ridiculous. There isn't a person alive, in the NFL or watching it on TV, that doesn't "respect" the Patriots more than just about every other franchise. Similarly, NO team gets as much love in the print/imedia and television press as the Patriots. It's not even close.I realize it's part of the athlete nomenclature, and it's not unique to Brady to say that, but that's insane.

I think we need to draw the distinction between respecting the Patriots as a team/organization and respecting the individual players as a part of that team. Everyone respects the Patriots but do they really respect the individual players, outside of Richard Seymour and Tom Brady?You've got to admit, it's a little odd to see a 10-4 team with only one Pro Bowler.

who else should have made it?

I'll give you a few guys who were potentially deserving:Logan Mankins - GuardDan Koppen - CenterBoth guys have anchored a very good interior offensive line. A line that has problems at both tackle positions but manage to be decent at run-blocking and picking up inside pass rushers. One of those two guys should go.Asante Samuel - CBOn a team that has been ripped up by injury, Samuel has been forced into one-on-one coverage most of the year and leads the league in INTs. He's having a very good season.Ty Warren - DE/DTWhile he's not the pass-rusher that you'd expect from a DE, he's the complete package -- Stops the run and rushes the QB equally well. Most scouts would tell you he's having almost as good of a season as Richard Seymour.Any one of those four guys would have been a great choice. I'd lean towards Warren and Koppen since both of those guys have shown steady improvement over the years and are both coming into their own as premier players. IMO, Warren is a big oversight -- The Pats are 2nd in points allowed and 6th in yards allowed this year. That defense deserves a lot more credit than it's getting and with the Pats, it all starts with Seymour and Warren up front.

 

[Despyzer]

Izzo is always a solid choice. But outside of Brady, I'm not sure who else I would have put on the ballot that is a Patriot.

Larry "8 tackles on the season" Izzo? Was this a joke?

 

[Colin Dowling]

Izzo is always a solid choice. But outside of Brady, I'm not sure who else I would have put on the ballot that is a Patriot.

Larry "8 tackles on the season" Izzo? Was this a joke?

Sort of. I'm a big Larry Izzo fan (he went to high school w/ my brother and they played on the baseball team together). I know he's made it in the past and while his stats have been particularly underwelming this season, I always cheer for him to make it because I like the fact that he's found a niche in the game that has made him a very successful guy.

 

[Despyzer]

I'll give you a few guys who were potentially deserving:Logan Mankins - GuardDan Koppen - CenterBoth guys have anchored a very good interior offensive line. A line that has problems at both tackle positions but manage to be decent at run-blocking and picking up inside pass rushers. One of those two guys should go.Asante Samuel - CBOn a team that has been ripped up by injury, Samuel has been forced into one-on-one coverage most of the year and leads the league in INTs. He's having a very good season.Ty Warren - DE/DTWhile he's not the pass-rusher that you'd expect from a DE, he's the complete package -- Stops the run and rushes the QB equally well. Most scouts would tell you he's having almost as good of a season as Richard Seymour.

I can buy into all those arguments just as much as I can the one for Brady. Koppen even moreso. It just didn't pan out. Stuff like that happens.

 

[Workhorse]

I'll give you a few guys who were potentially deserving:Logan Mankins - GuardDan Koppen - CenterBoth guys have anchored a very good interior offensive line. A line that has problems at both tackle positions but manage to be decent at run-blocking and picking up inside pass rushers. One of those two guys should go.Asante Samuel - CBOn a team that has been ripped up by injury, Samuel has been forced into one-on-one coverage most of the year and leads the league in INTs. He's having a very good season.Ty Warren - DE/DTWhile he's not the pass-rusher that you'd expect from a DE, he's the complete package -- Stops the run and rushes the QB equally well. Most scouts would tell you he's having almost as good of a season as Richard Seymour.

I can buy into all those arguments just as much as I can the one for Brady. Koppen even moreso. It just didn't pan out. Stuff like that happens.

Hey, I totally understand. But I'm just saying that there are some individual players on the Patriots who get overlooked every year by the Pro Bowl voting that leads to a feeling of "disrespect". Koppen and Warren in particular may have a reason to feel that way - Two guys who scouts and player personnel people drool over but they don't get a lot of credit from the fans or the press. I think that's what Brady is talking about in the quote that Colin brought up. As a Pats fan, I've come to realize that the "disrespect" card, while mostly ridiculous, is a great motivator in the hands of Bill Belichick. Whatever works.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I dont feel this really serves as too much motivastion for the Patriots. They are the definition of a team. Their whole is greater than the sum of their parts. They are well coached and play well together. Their schemes are brilliant and they buy into them. This means fewer pro bowls because on an individual level, they are simply not as good. Every year they are a good team with a revolving door of talent.

I could be wrong but I dont recall too many Patriot players from the Belichek era that have gone to other teams and become awesome.

What is branch doing in seattle?

David givens?

I cant really think of any others. Law did well, but he had great years before bill. Adam V. is still good, but he is a kicker.

 

[redsoxfan]

So, the fact that Rivers has led his team to more wins THIS YEAR is immaterial to the debate?

If this is just about wins then why isn't the entire pro bowl made up of the Chargers and the Bears?

 

[Banger]

So, the fact that Rivers has led his team to more wins THIS YEAR is immaterial to the debate?

If this is just about wins then why isn't the entire pro bowl made up of the Chargers and the Bears?

lol, it pretty much is...9/7

 

[Gr00vus]

Uh-oh they are feeling disrespected againThank you to the Pro Bowl voters for firing up this team at the right time!!!

I seem to remember pretty much the exact same "no respect" card being played last year - how'd that work out?

 

[Gr00vus]

I'll give you a few guys who were potentially deserving:Logan Mankins - GuardDan Koppen - CenterBoth guys have anchored a very good interior offensive line. A line that has problems at both tackle positions but manage to be decent at run-blocking and picking up inside pass rushers. One of those two guys should go.Asante Samuel - CBOn a team that has been ripped up by injury, Samuel has been forced into one-on-one coverage most of the year and leads the league in INTs. He's having a very good season.Ty Warren - DE/DTWhile he's not the pass-rusher that you'd expect from a DE, he's the complete package -- Stops the run and rushes the QB equally well. Most scouts would tell you he's having almost as good of a season as Richard Seymour.Any one of those four guys would have been a great choice. I'd lean towards Warren and Koppen since both of those guys have shown steady improvement over the years and are both coming into their own as premier players. IMO, Warren is a big oversight -- The Pats are 2nd in points allowed and 6th in yards allowed this year. That defense deserves a lot more credit than it's getting and with the Pats, it all starts with Seymour and Warren up front.

So you'd say there's more to the Patriots' success than just Brady? That in fact he's not really working with "nothing" and the team wins games as much (if not moreso) as Brady wins the teams' games? I ask this because it seemed to be implied by some previous posters in this thread that Brady was pretty much doing it all himself, and was mostly responsible for the Pats' record, while Rivers is just a passanger in the Chargers' better record.

 

[Workhorse]

I'll give you a few guys who were potentially deserving:Logan Mankins - GuardDan Koppen - CenterBoth guys have anchored a very good interior offensive line. A line that has problems at both tackle positions but manage to be decent at run-blocking and picking up inside pass rushers. One of those two guys should go.Asante Samuel - CBOn a team that has been ripped up by injury, Samuel has been forced into one-on-one coverage most of the year and leads the league in INTs. He's having a very good season.Ty Warren - DE/DTWhile he's not the pass-rusher that you'd expect from a DE, he's the complete package -- Stops the run and rushes the QB equally well. Most scouts would tell you he's having almost as good of a season as Richard Seymour.Any one of those four guys would have been a great choice. I'd lean towards Warren and Koppen since both of those guys have shown steady improvement over the years and are both coming into their own as premier players. IMO, Warren is a big oversight -- The Pats are 2nd in points allowed and 6th in yards allowed this year. That defense deserves a lot more credit than it's getting and with the Pats, it all starts with Seymour and Warren up front.

So you'd say there's more to the Patriots' success than just Brady? That in fact he's not really working with "nothing" and the team wins games as much (if not moreso) as Brady wins the teams' games? I ask this because it seemed to be implied by some previous posters in this thread that Brady was pretty much doing it all himself, and was mostly responsible for the Pats' record, while Rivers is just a passanger in the Chargers' better record.

For the record, I've said all along on this thread that Rivers is a better Pro Bowl choice this year than Brady.

 

[Gr00vus]

For the record, I've said all along on this thread that Rivers is a better Pro Bowl choice this year than Brady.

I'm not saying you were promoting Brady, you just happened to give some pertinent info that gives the lie to the idea that Brady's been doing it all on his own, as some others have intimated.Also for the record, I've said all along that I think Brady should have gone this year instead of Rivers, but it's a pretty close deal. I think there's a general Charger hangover that happened - I really don't see why Kaeding and Osgood are in this year (although Osgood may very well be a make up call for last year) - and Rivers is somewhat the beneficiary.

 

[GreekFreak]

Uh-oh they are feeling disrespected againThank you to the Pro Bowl voters for firing up this team at the right time!!!

I seem to remember pretty much the exact same "no respect" card being played last year - how'd that work out?

How'd it work out the other 3 times?

 

[Gr00vus]

Uh-oh they are feeling disrespected againThank you to the Pro Bowl voters for firing up this team at the right time!!!

I seem to remember pretty much the exact same "no respect" card being played last year - how'd that work out?

How'd it work out the other 3 times?

Probably about the same - meaningless to their actual success or failure. But it sure makes Pats fans crazy (or so it seems), so by all means go nuts.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I really don't see why Kaeding and Osgood are in this year (although Osgood may very well be a make up call for last year) - and Rivers is somewhat the beneficiary.

Kaeding and Osgood and Hardwick are all somewhat questionable choices. If Patriots fans should be complaining, it is about Hardwick over Koppen, IMO -- not Rivers over Brady.

 

[Despyzer]

I really don't see why Kaeding and Osgood are in this year (although Osgood may very well be a make up call for last year) - and Rivers is somewhat the beneficiary.

Kaeding and Osgood and Hardwick are all somewhat questionable choices. If Patriots fans should be complaining, it is about Hardwick over Koppen, IMO -- not Rivers over Brady.

The OP probably has no idea who Koppen is or how good he is though, so...