rivers vs cutler (1 Viewer)

[flc735]

basically cutler has much more going for him than rivers, but cutler has put up significantly worse numbers than rivers the past 2 years.

i do think cutlers a great buy low and likely to move back in to the top 10 status this year. but rivers has just always been as good as or better than cutler. who do you like at this point?

cutler pros- has an extremly favorable schedule. according to last years D rankings, he has the 4th best schedule and 3rd best playoff schedule. plays min, arz and gb in playoffs.

got rid of martz, who was a terrible match for him. cutler basically had the opposite skill set that a martz system needed.

marshall is in town and forte may be gone, or at the very least will be more likely to miss time to to a hold out or injury via missed training camp time.

cutler cons- no TE

bad o line

new system

put up poor numbers that past 2 years

coming off an injury

bad wr2.

rivers pros- may have been hurt last year, which would account for his drop out of top 5 value.

put up significantly better numbers than cutler over the past 2 years.

decent o-line.

likely to draft a wr in the 1st-2nd round

rivers cons- has an extremly tough schedule. he has the 28th toughest passing schedule and 29th thoughest playoff passing schedule based off last years defensive numbers.

top wr, floyd and top target, gates are both very injury prone.

they just lost vjax.

mathews is coming on. he could really break out this year and keep rivers passing attempts low.

a good chance vbrown, a 2nd year player, or a rookie will have to play significant time in a starting role.

 

[az_prof]

basically cutler has much more going for him than rivers, but cutler has put up significantly worse numbers than rivers the past 2 years.

i do think cutlers a great buy low and likely to move back in to the top 10 status this year. but rivers has just always been as good as or better than cutler. who do you like at this point?

cutler pros- has an extremly favorable schedule. according to last years D rankings, he has the 4th best schedule and 3rd best playoff schedule. plays min, arz and gb in playoffs.

got rid of martz, who was a terrible match for him. cutler basically had the opposite skill set that a martz system needed.

marshall is in town and forte may be gone, or at the very least will be more likely to miss time to to a hold out or injury via missed training camp time.

cutler cons- no TE

bad o line

new system

put up poor numbers that past 2 years

coming off an injury

bad wr2.

rivers pros- may have been hurt last year, which would account for his drop out of top 5 value.

put up significantly better numbers than cutler over the past 2 years.

decent o-line.

likely to draft a wr in the 1st-2nd round

rivers cons- has an extremly tough schedule. he has the 28th toughest passing schedule and 29th thoughest playoff passing schedule based off last years defensive numbers.

top wr, floyd and top target, gates are both very injury prone.

they just lost vjax.

mathews is coming on. he could really break out this year and keep rivers passing attempts low.

a good chance vbrown, a 2nd year player, or a rookie will have to play significant time in a starting role.

Pretty good comparison but you omitted Meachem as lead WR for SD. He obviously is not a proven, elite WR1. Eventhough I like Meachem, he has never played this role, and so, is an unknown. Compared to Marshall, who is a proven WR1. Advantage Cutler there.TE: even an aging Gates is an advantage for Rivers

To me, they are pretty comparable although I like Rivers a bit more because he has been a more consistent player. I don't put much stock in projected strength of schedule in general and at this point it doesn't even take into account the draft. Usually SOS doesn't account for FA or draft--it assumes teams will play like last year.

Cutler coming off an injury and having to learn a new system, I would count as negatives. I would rather have Rivers probably for those reasons. While a new system MAY be better, there is no guarantee. It MAY be worse.

 

[flc735]

Pretty good comparison but you omitted Meachem as lead WR for SD. He obviously is not a proven, elite WR1. Eventhough I like Meachem, he has never played this role, and so, is an unknown. Compared to Marshall, who is a proven WR1. Advantage Cutler there.

your right. i don't believe in meachum whatsoever to be honest but i know im in the minority about that

Cutler coming off an injury and having to learn a new system, I would count as negatives. I would rather have Rivers probably for those reasons. While a new system MAY be better, there is no guarantee. It MAY be worse.

again, just my belief but i do and have always thought the martz system for cutler was as bad of a match as you could get. 2 years ago, chi actually had the lowest passing attempts in the league. who would have thought that? i dont see any way that the change does not significantly help cutlers numbers

 

[lbouchard]

i like rivers by a decent margin. schedules shouldn't matter in the offseason, too much changes.

 

[Tau837]

rivers pros-

likely to draft a wr in the 1st-2nd round

This is incorrect. The Chargers already signed WRs Meachem, Royal, and Parrish this offseason to join Floyd, Brown, and Goodman. Meachem and Floyd will start with Brown playing the 3rd WR role. The other 3 will play primarily on special teams, with Royal likely serving as the #4 WR. And the Chargers throw less to their WRs than almost every other team, anyway; they throw more often to their RBs and TEs than most teams do. I will be very surprised if the Chargers draft a WR.As for Rivers vs. Cutler, there is no basis for expecting Cutler to perform better this year or any season in the near term. Rivers has been better than Cutler at every single passing metric for their careers to date. There is a reason for that... he is a better QB.

 

[chook]

rivers pros-

likely to draft a wr in the 1st-2nd round

This is incorrect. The Chargers already signed WRs Meachem, Royal, and Parrish this offseason to join Floyd, Brown, and Goodman. Meachem and Floyd will start with Brown playing the 3rd WR role. The other 3 will play primarily on special teams, with Royal likely serving as the #4 WR. And the Chargers throw less to their WRs than almost every other team, anyway; they throw more often to their RBs and TEs than most teams do. I will be very surprised if the Chargers draft a WR.As for Rivers vs. Cutler, there is no basis for expecting Cutler to perform better this year or any season in the near term. Rivers has been better than Cutler at every single passing metric for their careers to date. There is a reason for that... he has played in a much more QB-friendly environment surrounded by a far better offense.

fixed.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I agree with the wholesale catchall comment: Rivers is just better than Cutler.

I've always appreciated Rivers game. Having said that, he lost his prime playmaker in Vincent Jackson and Meachem and others are unproven or inconsistent. It'll be interesting to watch this situation unfold throughout preseason to see if Rivers can still force the ball in tight windows to this receiving corp. I don't doubt his ability, it's the receivers I am leery of.

Cutler has that howitzer of an arm, and should have had more accolades in his career to this point. I agree that the addition of Marshall should be a real shot in the arm. He should be better. Until we see more of Rivers and Cutler in action, they are pretty close but I still like Rivers more.

 

[Beerguzzler]

Rivers had his best season without VJ just FYI. The biggest issue last season was the OLine. That finally got sorted out the last five games. Look at those stats and then you get a more accurate prediction for next year. The addition of Meachum and Royal will be a net gain IMO. Finally AJ added speed to our WR corps which will open up a few more routes for Rivers this year. Brown will also be involved giving Rivers four talented WRs that can all make plays. I def see him spreading it around this year ala Saints.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Rivers had his best season without VJ just FYI. The biggest issue last season was the OLine. That finally got sorted out the last five games. Look at those stats and then you get a more accurate prediction for next year. The addition of Meachum and Royal will be a net gain IMO. Finally AJ added speed to our WR corps which will open up a few more routes for Rivers this year. Brown will also be involved giving Rivers four talented WRs that can all make plays. I def see him spreading it around this year ala Saints.

Seems like a lot to hang your hat on the last 5 weeks, while ignoring the previous 6 weeks. Do you expect the O-Line to maintain its continuity without McNeil and Dielman? Not saying that it couldn't be just as good as the last 5 weeks or even better. It's tough to gage OL's from week to week sometimes, let alone season to season. Also, your #1 receiver is for now Gates and there is no true #1 wideout.

 

[BoltBacker]

Rivers had his best season without VJ just FYI. The biggest issue last season was the OLine. That finally got sorted out the last five games. Look at those stats and then you get a more accurate prediction for next year. The addition of Meachum and Royal will be a net gain IMO. Finally AJ added speed to our WR corps which will open up a few more routes for Rivers this year. Brown will also be involved giving Rivers four talented WRs that can all make plays. I def see him spreading it around this year ala Saints.

Seems like a lot to hang your hat on the last 5 weeks, while ignoring the previous 6 weeks. Do you expect the O-Line to maintain its continuity without McNeil and Dielman? Not saying that it couldn't be just as good as the last 5 weeks or even better. It's tough to gage OL's from week to week sometimes, let alone season to season. Also, your #1 receiver is for now Gates and there is no true #1 wideout.

When McNeil was holding out I was one of the people saying that non-Charger fans don't realize how much his play has been regressing since his rookie season. I think the interest he's seen in FA kind of underscores that point. Maybe it's all been because of health, maybe other reasons but either way he's been consistently regressing for a long time and people have been overestimating his importance on the OL based solely on the ineptness of his backups imo. Even teams that are LT desperate like PHI don't seem to have any interest in McNeil and that simply wouldn't be the case if he had been playing well. Gaither played the best LT I've seen in a few years last year.Dielman is a completely different story. The idea of Green starting in his place is truly repugnant. Some fellow SD fans seem to think they'll shore up the OL in the draft but I'm a little skeptical based on the past. I would love to see SD draft a Glenn/DeCastro/Reiff/Adams/Martin type but the fact is SD hasn't drafted an OLman in the first round since 1986 and even that year it was the second selection of two 1st rounders that year.

As far as WR goes, I think Meachem/Royal/Parrish can realistically produce 1200/9 collectively. Let's not forget that just because VJ is being paid like a top 2 or 3 WR he's definitely never been that productive. Besides, Rivers isn't the type of QB that feeds his WR 1 all game long. He simply throws to the open guy. In 2010 when VJ sat out most of the season and Rivers threw for 4700+ yards can you guess who the top 4 WR's were?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I think Rivers is the better QB and has proven that over his career.

However, SD has lost quite a bit: Mike Tolbert, Kris Dielman, Vincent Jackson, Marcus McNeil. Some think it won't affect Rivers...how did losing Sproles affect him? Probably more than they thought.

What did Chicago lose: Roy Williams, Sam Hurd, Marion Barber

SD added: Robert Meachem, Eddie Royal

CHI added: Brandon Marshall, Michael Bush, Devin Thomas, Eric Weems

I think it will be closer than in past years. I'd also factor in divisional defenses...GB/DET/MINNY have bad pass defenses.

 

[Tau837]

I think Rivers is the better QB and has proven that over his career.However, SD has lost quite a bit: Mike Tolbert, Kris Dielman, Vincent Jackson, Marcus McNeil. Some think it won't affect Rivers...how did losing Sproles affect him? Probably more than they thought.What did Chicago lose: Roy Williams, Sam Hurd, Marion BarberSD added: Robert Meachem, Eddie RoyalCHI added: Brandon Marshall, Michael Bush, Devin Thomas, Eric WeemsI think it will be closer than in past years. I'd also factor in divisional defenses...GB/DET/MINNY have bad pass defenses.

What are you assuming about Forte?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I think Rivers is the better QB and has proven that over his career.However, SD has lost quite a bit: Mike Tolbert, Kris Dielman, Vincent Jackson, Marcus McNeil. Some think it won't affect Rivers...how did losing Sproles affect him? Probably more than they thought.What did Chicago lose: Roy Williams, Sam Hurd, Marion BarberSD added: Robert Meachem, Eddie RoyalCHI added: Brandon Marshall, Michael Bush, Devin Thomas, Eric WeemsI think it will be closer than in past years. I'd also factor in divisional defenses...GB/DET/MINNY have bad pass defenses.

What are you assuming about Forte?

Everything is an assumption about Forte at this point. But I really don't see any way he isn't in the backfield for week 1.

 

[Beerguzzler]

Rivers had his best season without VJ just FYI. The biggest issue last season was the OLine. That finally got sorted out the last five games. Look at those stats and then you get a more accurate prediction for next year. The addition of Meachum and Royal will be a net gain IMO. Finally AJ added speed to our WR corps which will open up a few more routes for Rivers this year. Brown will also be involved giving Rivers four talented WRs that can all make plays. I def see him spreading it around this year ala Saints.

Seems like a lot to hang your hat on the last 5 weeks, while ignoring the previous 6 weeks. Do you expect the O-Line to maintain its continuity without McNeil and Dielman? Not saying that it couldn't be just as good as the last 5 weeks or even better. It's tough to gage OL's from week to week sometimes, let alone season to season. Also, your #1 receiver is for now Gates and there is no true #1 wideout.

Honestly, Gates has always been Rivers #1 receiver. The OLine was decimated by injuries most of the year till Gaither and Greene began starting. Like it was mentioned, McNeil had been regressing even before last year. It's not a top 5 Oline, but it's average and servicable if they remain healthy. The biggest thing IMO is that while we lost VJ (and I was a huge VJ fan) we actually gained team speed with Meachum and Royal. That was a big issue since VJ, Floyd, and Gates are all fairly long strides that take a long time to develop routes. The new guys will give us some more options, that should at least allow Rivers to get the ball out quicker if needed.

 

[Sweet Love]

All I know is that Rivers is going to be a steal going into 2012. I could see him going behind the following in redraft (not all the time of course, but possibly):

Rodgers

Brees

Brady

Manning

Stafford

Newton

Roth

Romo

Schaub

Vick

Manning, Eli

Ryan

Coming off the board at QB 9-11, that is value (though I have to say, at least today, I really like the top 12 overall and would not reach at all)

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

I personally prefer Cutler .... he'll cost a bit less than Rivers. I'm not a Meachem fan at all and think he will flop.

I really expect the Bears to come out of this draft with another solid WR weapon. He hasn't had a starting caliber WR since he's been in Chicago until Marshall.