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Rock Action's Newbie IDP Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockaction
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm gonna likely lose the Davenport auction. Guys behind me have two hundred bucks and they're willing to spend. I have like ninety-five left. Figured if you don't use it, you only can blind bid it, so use it.
Tick
Footballguy
I like to leave 80 at the end of FA. That gives me 30-50 to play with post-draft and in training camp, leaving 30-50 for blind bid during the season.
I screwed up in two leagues, though - I've got around 120 and missed out on some guys by being cheap.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think we reset to 1000 blind bid dollars no matter what and the blind bid dollars get added on top of that if you have any left over.
If that's not the situation, I'll have been unwise and will have educated myself about it poorly, but I'm pretty sure that's the gig.
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northern exposure
Footballguy
Enderdog is correct. If you have 95 left that converts to Blind Bid dollars and that is what you have to spend until the end of the season. Also, just to clarify, rosters sit at 60 now but have to be cut to 51players prior to start of the season.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh Dear. That makes it different. I never would have bid on certain guys or done certain things. Whoops. I seriously thought I read somewhere where we start with 1000 dollars. Also, I got a week at the start to acquire any free agent I wanted. That never happened.
What a drag. Oh well. I'll take it as it comes. Too late now.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm gonna win Davenport at auction and have not much to bid with this year. Twenty bucks. Oof. I'm winning him for $71. If anyone bids, I'll be thrilled.
Two trades:
Gave: Harry, N'Keal
Got: Williams, Preston and Davis, Corey
Gave: Melvin Gordon, Jason Pierre-Paul, K.J. Wright
Got: 2020 2.07, 2021 1st (likely mid), Chase Edmonds
So scratch Pierre-Paul and Wright, both 30+, off of the list of players on my roster
Two trades:
Gave: Harry, N'Keal
Got: Williams, Preston and Davis, Corey
Gave: Melvin Gordon, Jason Pierre-Paul, K.J. Wright
Got: 2020 2.07, 2021 1st (likely mid), Chase Edmonds
So scratch Pierre-Paul and Wright, both 30+, off of the list of players on my roster
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Davenport is a great buy. I was shocked you found him on the wire when roster sizes are so big. Terrible drop by someone with a few games lost to injury to end the season.
I've bought in on the Unicorn so I like the first one. Solid deal, giving you two darts instead of 1 at WR and you gain the one that flashed the most.
Love that last deal. Getting 2 first round picks and a very good handcuff at the expense of 2 very old IDPs and a RB that is older and a fairly large RBBC risk is great for you.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks for the encouraging words. Love to hear it! Davenport has some hours left, but it seems like the other interested parties would have upped by now. There's a possibility that he does get snapped up so I shouldn't have spoken so soon. It felt like defeat rather than victory.
As for the trades, also thanks for the encouragement. I finagled the second one to both of our advantages. He's more win-now than I am.
rockaction
Footballguy
Good point, though I'm really thin and unsure of who I'd trade. Cross that bridge when I come to it.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Haven't read the entire thread, but if no one has mentioned it yet you need to learn one of the most important tenets of IDP early: Know Your Stat Crews
Cannot overstate how important it is to know how different team's statisticians "score" their defenders. A wiggy stat crew can turn a Bobby Wagner from a godlike LB1 into a mid-range LB2 quicker than you'd imagine if they go heavy on assists and light on tackles. And, of course, it can(read: almost certainly will) fluctuate week to week. Fun. This is what you signed up for, right?!
Cannot overstate how important it is to know how different team's statisticians "score" their defenders. A wiggy stat crew can turn a Bobby Wagner from a godlike LB1 into a mid-range LB2 quicker than you'd imagine if they go heavy on assists and light on tackles. And, of course, it can(read: almost certainly will) fluctuate week to week. Fun. This is what you signed up for, right?!
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rockaction
Footballguy
Won the bidding on Davenport. Still somewhat convinced that blind bid dollars total a thousand in the accounting section of the MFL site once they get turned on. If they ever do. Gonna be so wrong, aren't I? :( Shucks.
rockaction
Footballguy
Draft picks for 2020 and 2021, the only years Zealots will let you know about or play with to prevent future shock.
2020 2021
1.01 1st, mid-to-late 1st
2.01 2nd
2.07 3rd
3.01 4th
4.01 5th
4.06 6th
5.01
6.01
2020 2021
1.01 1st, mid-to-late 1st
2.01 2nd
2.07 3rd
3.01 4th
4.01 5th
4.06 6th
5.01
6.01
MAC_32
Footballguy
You're not likely to be competing for a title this year. If you are then it's probably because your first line was productive and stayed healthy. Those glue pieces you fall backwards into during the season won't have as much use on this year's team vs future years. So I wouldn't worry about having limited funding. I think the right move was adding more young talent now rather than throwing more darts later. Just need to be very patient during the season. Just because a LB plays 90%+ snaps one week and puts up 27 points doesn't mean they're worth a bid on this particular team. Restrict your money to guys that may be part of the 2021 answer; not the Donald Payne's of the world.
Tick
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Hah. That's perfect. Donald Payne was left not bid on. Unbidden? Anyway, I tend to agree with you about not worrying about this year. I've already started looking towards next, which is why I took next year's first for Melvin Gordon. I almost did the same thing for Chark, but he's so young and dynamic right now that I'll let the chips fall where they may.
Good idea.
I know Simmons was mentioned earlier in this thread. He just went at 2.01 in a draft Im in. That owner is very keen on drafting LB and Young went at 1.12.
These drafts are skewed a little because every owner picks on talent and not on situation which will impact later drafts.
Position designation will be huge as well. As a LB 1.10-2.02 seems value, as a S then idk....
These drafts are skewed a little because every owner picks on talent and not on situation which will impact later drafts.
Position designation will be huge as well. As a LB 1.10-2.02 seems value, as a S then idk....
MAC_32
Footballguy
Bloom kinda hit on something I had been mulling over. I'm skeptical just how good Simmons will be in our game. Depending on where Queen goes I'd strongly consider using Simmons being picked as a trigger for drafting Queen.
The sweet spot of this LB draft class will be round 3 though. Who? We won't know that answer for another 8 or 9 days. There's a pile of them that need situations to develop their stocks.
The sweet spot of this LB draft class will be round 3 though. Who? We won't know that answer for another 8 or 9 days. There's a pile of them that need situations to develop their stocks.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I had 1.10 and have planned for months to take him there had I not just traded it. I would take him at 1.07.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is all interesting. IDP Guys (who I subscribe to now) had Young around 1.07 and Simmons around 2.1 last time I checked. I'm amenable to looking at either, but I don't think I'm trading down in picks. I already offered but was refused by an owner who holds multiple first-rounders and wanted draft equity, not to move up. He said we could re-visit talks after the draft. At this point, I think the stars align for either KC or TB to take one of the top backs, who would then become 1.01. I can see them taking any one of Swift, Dobbins, or Akers. I think Taylor goes to Miami. I would have a hard time drafting Akers or Taylor at 1.01 regardless of situation, just because of preference.
So the IDP is still up in the air. My extra pick comes at the end of the second and it looks like I'm white-knuckling a top choice to for Simmons to be designated at LB or have Young still there at 2.01. My preference is Young so I don't have to worry about drafting a safety at 2.01. I wonder when they will designate that. I don't think our league traditionally drafts defense too early, though there are exceptions, and Young would seem to be one. Anyway, that's all I got really for now. Thanks again for the input.
So the IDP is still up in the air. My extra pick comes at the end of the second and it looks like I'm white-knuckling a top choice to for Simmons to be designated at LB or have Young still there at 2.01. My preference is Young so I don't have to worry about drafting a safety at 2.01. I wonder when they will designate that. I don't think our league traditionally drafts defense too early, though there are exceptions, and Young would seem to be one. Anyway, that's all I got really for now. Thanks again for the input.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Young at 2.01 would depend on league scoring. Only one of mine is dynamic enough that a stud can create the PPG separation from the pack to be worth a premium pick. Most of them I don't have DL on my list until round 2 at the earliest. It never fails that 2 or 3 go before that which I end up loving because those donkeys aren't getting the value from their picks and leave me better choices. In the one league, I'd take him at 2.01, he's worth it there.
Hello everyone. just started reading the thread and new to the conversation, so I apologize if I repeat something that has been said.
What about Montez Sweat? I really haven't heard his name come up that much, but I'd imagine he could be a really good steal. Pretty sure Washington is switching to the 4-3, which would turn him from a LB to a DE designation, would it not? Combine that with that fact that Washington is almost assuredly going to take Young at #2. Wouldn't Sweat benefit greatly by being opposite Young? It's not like Sweat is a slouch, he was just drafted in the 1st round just a year ago.
What about Montez Sweat? I really haven't heard his name come up that much, but I'd imagine he could be a really good steal. Pretty sure Washington is switching to the 4-3, which would turn him from a LB to a DE designation, would it not? Combine that with that fact that Washington is almost assuredly going to take Young at #2. Wouldn't Sweat benefit greatly by being opposite Young? It's not like Sweat is a slouch, he was just drafted in the 1st round just a year ago.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Only reason I haven't mentioned him is I'm waiting for the official reclass. I traded for him anticipating it, but until I see it...
rockaction
Footballguy
Montez Sweat was bid on and went at a high rate. I was not in on the bidding, as this happened during Davenport. I was actually aware of the change, but could do nothing about it, really.
rockaction
Footballguy
Also, I picked up Weatherly for a dollar in an auction. Slipped him through while nobody was really checking. I had heard mention of him upthread, then there was mention that he wasn't that good in MN, but he seemed worth at least the risk.
I would rather have Ifeadi Odenigbo over Weatherly if you are taking a flyer. With Griffin leaving (if he stays gone) Odenigbo has a chance to put up some good numbers opposite Hunter. I think he is the better IDP player.
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I think our league is dynamic enough for the studs to make a difference on defense. For example, here's the top three on defense, bolded with the next in tow. They average about twenty-five to thirty points more than the next three, who round out the top six. The next players are there for perspective's sake. Young might be worth the 2.1 or 2.7 in this format, though I'm not really protesting as you would know better than I. He'd have to finish top three, really. I also compared the average to the average offensive output with respect to points and found it indeed weighted toward offense, though not a tremendous amount. It is a start nine IDP league, so...it does matter.
DL and DT
Hunter 211
Heyward 207
Bosa 205
Jordan 182
Donald 178
Dunlap178
Hubbard 177
Bosa 170
Jarrett 166
Buckner 164
Campbell 164
Ioannidis 162
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
I agree Sweat's value for 2020 tanks hard if they draft Young but Allen is in his final year so 2021 could be Young/Sweat. Decent hold in deeper leagues.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Right, there will be plenty of snaps to go around for Sweat. DL snap counts vary, but 75% is a good starting point. Young, Allen, and Sweat get a higher share than Ioannidis and Payne but the latter two can still be closer to 75% than 50 - probably depends most on matchups. May even see some 5 DL looks too.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I'd take Young 2.01 in that format. You also have it backward with Simmons - you want him listed at S. He's going to get plenty of snaps/assignments as an LB though, so LB points with a S designation is generally the IDP dream. The elders gather around the campfire to spin tales of when Deone Buchanon and Mark Barron carried fantasy teams to championship glory getting 15.5 PPG while listed as DB's. That's actually how this whole position re-assignment mess began and then Khalil Mack came along and threw a can of gasoline on it.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks, man. I think I dig it. I was just going off the positional value alone of defensive backs and people telling me to wait on them and grab them off of the wire. But if somehow the linebacker scoring is weighted differently than the safeties, then I can see it. But now that I look as I type this, they're not. The top three and the top twelve are separated on average by only a total of two points on average and 1.4 on average. That's average per game per year, but it still isn't really that significant. Linebackers score a bit more.
What we've got, apparently, is dynamic scoring by defensive players because they run nine deep and have weighted formulas for each position depending on whether the defensive action is a tackle, sack, pass def., etc., but it's not too different from position to position as weighted now. That may not be the way in other leagues, though.
That's why this is a newbie speaking. Glad to get great advice, trying to run it through my own league to see if it's something to be on the lookout for.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
It's not about LB scoring or S scoring. It's about the role they get on the field. You don't see S racking up 120 tackles in a season. But Simmons could do that easily. If he's listed as an LB then he's a ho-hum 280 point LB. There are 3-5 of those a year. But if he's listed at S there aren't any in that PPG stratosphere. The positional advantage is massive.
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
Top 5 DB:
17.031
16.188
15.462
14.467
14.385
Top 5 LB:
18.808
17.469
17.25
17.062
16.406
Now assume Simmons averages 18.0 PPG. He'd be the #2 LB but only 2.4 PPG value over #5. But list those same 18.0 at S? DB #1 and 3.7 PPG. That' more than 50% again the advantage and trust me, DB's spread must faster that LB's the lower you go. An extra 1.3 PPG doesn't sound like much but with 20 starters in these leagues that's 26 points every week if you can find it.
17.031
16.188
15.462
14.467
14.385
Top 5 LB:
18.808
17.469
17.25
17.062
16.406
Now assume Simmons averages 18.0 PPG. He'd be the #2 LB but only 2.4 PPG value over #5. But list those same 18.0 at S? DB #1 and 3.7 PPG. That' more than 50% again the advantage and trust me, DB's spread must faster that LB's the lower you go. An extra 1.3 PPG doesn't sound like much but with 20 starters in these leagues that's 26 points every week if you can find it.
rockaction
Footballguy
I see that. I was trying to convey that the tackle scoring weights negate that, but I did a poor job, probably because I don't understand all that well. It'll probably play out the way you say.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Ok now that's a league specific thing that maybe I didn't correcly infer. Do LB get more points per tackle than S?
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah it's league-specific, but it still might prove your point. Safeties get .875 pts. per .5 of a recorded tackle while LBs get .75 pts. per .5 of a recorded tackle.
IOW, it's 1.5 for a full tackle for LBs, 1.75 for a tackle at safety, which should prove your point more. Sacks are 1.5 for a .5 sack for safeties, one for .5 of a sack for linebackers. So three for a full sack for safeties, two for linebackers.
That should mean that whoever drafts Simmons would get a bigger advantage than you say if he were designated a safety.
IOW, it's 1.5 for a full tackle for LBs, 1.75 for a tackle at safety, which should prove your point more. Sacks are 1.5 for a .5 sack for safeties, one for .5 of a sack for linebackers. So three for a full sack for safeties, two for linebackers.
That should mean that whoever drafts Simmons would get a bigger advantage than you say if he were designated a safety.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I can certainly understand a bit of glee about that. If I held that pick, I'd be tempted. I hold 1.01. Perhaps a trade back is still in order depending, but I still think things break right with the backs and Dobbins or Swift go to a RB-hungry team.
And that said, MFL has apparently denoted his position as LB from checking the add/drop applet.
But thanks, man, for clarifying an edge to look for in the future and for spitballing about where Young should go.
MAC_32
Footballguy
As of April 23, that doesn't really mean anything. Their designation is subject to change several more times between now and August.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks, MAC_32. This is where having experience helps out. Knowing where to draft guys -- and in this case positional designation would come down to knowing who to draft -- and why is huge. I'm looking at IDP Guys and Young and Simmons are both mocked in the first, so I don't think they'll be getting around back to me, but this is a deep receiver class and people may be looking at the other side of the ball for a long time. I know I am.
MAC_32
Footballguy
What exactly depends on how much time you are willing to devote, but familiarizing yourself with the types of schemes coaching staff's prefer will pay dividends in the future. Last year OLB vs DE was a big issue with that incoming class. Players like Sweat who had the DE designation now, but were flipped to LB early May - that's why I didn't draft him then but instead traded for him in March. Or players like Josh Allen that were LB pre-draft and flipped to DE sometime in summer - that's why I drafted him then. I thought there was some risk he may not get flipped, but the cost of a 4th round pick was justifiable.
That isn't going to be the case this year - Chase Young is going to Washington where he will be a DE. The next best EDGE guy is not in the same category as the top half dozen or so from last year. But future years will be a completely different story.
rockaction
Footballguy
Ah, that I even know that you're talking about Chaisson or Epenesa off of the top of my head should prove something.
Yeah, I have no problem spending the time, it's really where to begin. I've chalked this season up to following the defensive side of the ball and really familiarizing myself with all of the players and the real rudiments. I've basically familiarized myself with the basics of IDP production and the schemes coaches are running on their respective units, or I at least have reference tools at the ready to do so where memory fails (I say that because in quizzing myself, I've already forgotten a lot) . They have a link of the 2019 schemes over at IDP Guru, and I've been following changes in other formations at IDP Guys and Dynasty League Football, which is how I was able to identify Carolina switching away from a 3-4, though the IDP pickings at DLF are a bit slimmer. I think refreshers are always necessary. Like I've said, I have two articles on the basic formations and what position benefits from the scheme, it's really more a question of familiarizing myself with the depth charts and where each backer or end is lining up. When I first got into fantasy football, I did indeed study defensive schemes, so it's not totally foreign to me.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Chaisson in the right situation could peak my interest late. I'm skeptical even a good situation would net relevant tackle numbers though. To a lesser degree, same story with Okwara. If they connect then it will be on sacks - not both. I generally don't like investing in those types.
But I doubt I look at Epenesa or Gross-Matos. Not now anyway. And for completely different reasons. Epenesa because even in an ideal scenario I can't see him being any more than an uninteresting DE2. And Gross-Matos because I think the payoff may be years down the line. I'd rather watch from afar then consider trading for him in a year or two give or take - or just see if his original drafter outright drops him.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
These are both great posts about 2 nuances to IDP that can really improve your ability to find gems that others may miss.
In general, a well balance IDP system should have 2 things:
The favorable designation is what Hank is pointing out with Simmons. If he gets designated as S he will get the extra points per stat. in your scoring system b/c S scores more per stat than LB. So your SS plays the traditional S role but, as a hybrid player, will line up as LB quite a bit, as well, especially in passing situations. This gives them far more opportunity to pile on points that a traditional S would get. Essentially, the S gets LB opportunity all season long and puts up gaudy numbers as a result.
The inaccurate designation can happen another way. It is more common with DT/DE (a DT designation on a guy that will see DE snaps) but happens with S/CB sometimes and is a great way to gain advantage. A good example of this is a DT that gets forced into action as a DE b/c of injury, or a young player takes over a role after a few weeks of good play. My favorite example is 2016 when Kerry Hyder as a rookie was DT8 - because he was getting the extra points per tackle/etc. that a DT earns despite the fact that he was lining up as a DE. Because he was an unknown, and took his DT designation into the start of the season, the positional designation doesn't get changed. There was a similar situation with CB/S last year for the 49ers due to injury at S but the CB, Tarvarius Moore, playing S didn't do much. These types are more often long shots, anyway, but still can have a big impact if they hit.
MAC_32 explained this one well in one shot. Nothing to add... except maybe a #humblebrag for doing the same with Josh Allen.
This concept is one we discuss through preseason and into the early portion of the regular season each year. I'll take a stab at unpacking this one a bit more, as Hankmoody is absolutely right that knowing this part can put you in position to really clean up with what I call "cheat points" during the season. Fundamentally, the concept is simple: take advantage of inaccurate positional designation.
In general, a well balance IDP system should have 2 things:
- Positions are fully broken out. DT, DE, LB, S, CB.
- The scoring system should give more points per stat (tackle/sack/TFL/etc.) to those positions that have less opportunity to make those plays in each game. DT scores more per stat than DE. S scores more per stat than LB.
The favorable designation is what Hank is pointing out with Simmons. If he gets designated as S he will get the extra points per stat. in your scoring system b/c S scores more per stat than LB. So your SS plays the traditional S role but, as a hybrid player, will line up as LB quite a bit, as well, especially in passing situations. This gives them far more opportunity to pile on points that a traditional S would get. Essentially, the S gets LB opportunity all season long and puts up gaudy numbers as a result.
The inaccurate designation can happen another way. It is more common with DT/DE (a DT designation on a guy that will see DE snaps) but happens with S/CB sometimes and is a great way to gain advantage. A good example of this is a DT that gets forced into action as a DE b/c of injury, or a young player takes over a role after a few weeks of good play. My favorite example is 2016 when Kerry Hyder as a rookie was DT8 - because he was getting the extra points per tackle/etc. that a DT earns despite the fact that he was lining up as a DE. Because he was an unknown, and took his DT designation into the start of the season, the positional designation doesn't get changed. There was a similar situation with CB/S last year for the 49ers due to injury at S but the CB, Tarvarius Moore, playing S didn't do much. These types are more often long shots, anyway, but still can have a big impact if they hit.
rockaction
Footballguy
We have the latter (an attempt at giving more points per stat to positions of lesser opportunity) but not the former (a fully broken-out positional requirement). We start three DL in total, regardless of designation at either DT or DE, three LBs regardless of designation, and three DBs in total, regardless of CB or S.
It's part of what is giving me pause. Our league has really deep rosters of fifty or so per team depending at which time in the year it is, and people have already pretty much snapped up all the DEs and EDGEs of note. They've also done the same with CBs and safeties. I see an opportunity to build offensively. Right now, I'm concentrating on getting the offense well-rounded and up to snuff so that the randomness of the defensive scoring (which people keep emphasizing but I haven't seen it first-hand) will hopefully align nicely and I can score some wins along the way in my first year, even though Wooters wants me to punt it and punt it far.
At this point, I'm realizing that I'm really just along for the ride the first go-round. I'm trying to build a team fun watching on Sundays. Winning is important, but I more want my kind of guys on my kind of team than pure winning at first. I've found having guys that excel in the way one can comprehend tends to make decisions easier when managing and building a whole squad. It's going to take at least four-six games to learn again how to watch football focusing on the defensive side of things, picking up what the announcers are saying about it and just watching instead of disregarding the whole other side of the football.
And on a serious note, I don't think they're playing this year, so my decisions are flowing accordingly.
