Ron Dayne article (1 Viewer)

[zamboni]

Oh, one last thing, #### you Shanahan, you ####sucking, little boy #######, ####aphobe. The last thing I needed this year was more of your damned runningback drama you #### eater.

Basically the same quote as per every year...but of course, we'll still salivate over having THE guy on our rosters

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Pony, your statistics are meaningless, end of story. You cant throw out bad games like that and apply the good games to a full season.

If they are meaningless to you, sobeit. But 11 games of 19+ carries at least offers some insight into Dayne, as small as it might be. That the Giants didn't use him often could be explained by a myriad of reasons: the success of Barber, the lack of a decent O-line for a big RB to run behind, Dayne inability to take over the job because he is capable, coaching phiolosophy, etc, etc, etc.You don't like the stats, that's fine. But they do exist, and hence they aren't completely meaningless, IMO.

I promised myself I wouldn't get dragged back in to this, but oh well.Yes, your stats "exist" but you badly misapply them and then make statements that simply AREN'T TRUE/RELEVANT.

When you apply that magic formula to Dayne's numbers, if you want to then compare him to other backs (e.g. say he would be in the top 10 for rushing every other year), you MUST APPLY THAT SAME MAGIC FORMULA to the other backs. If you took only 19+ carry games from EVERY back, Dayne's 1200 yard pro-rated season wouldn't even be CLOSE to the top 10 in ANY year. Did you just totally turn a blind eye to the stats posted by CalBear a while back? THOSE are the numbers you get from good backs when you cherry-pick their games. In that scenario, Dayne's numbers still look quite bad.

And then there is the OTHER fact you completely ignore - the fact that Dayne actually gets WORSE as the game progresses. Look at his situational stats! How can you claim a back is just the kind of back that needs a lot of carries when his average goes DOWN with the number of carries he gets?

I can accept that you have a different opinion of Dayne than I do. I really can. You believe he is better than he has appears to be, cool - I have thought that about other players.

But these stats of yours just make your case weaker, because everybody by now can just see through them. They are truly worthless and you honestly would be better off just disavowing them and moving on with the discussion. You overlooked something in your analysis - it happens. I do it all the time. But at least recognize it, own up to it and move on.

Edited to give proper credit. Sorry CalBear.

 

[CalBear]

by Holy Schneikes:

And GB using ridiculously skewed "statistics" to support his point.

Says the guy who uses players that have 2-3 games of qualifying data to support his contrary viewpoint. Stones & glass houses, my friend.And since you are so big on statistics, why don't you look up the stats for Olandis Gary & his numbers when he played for DEN & then when he left DEN. Or Rueben Droughns' stats before he got to DEN and then after he took over the starting RB spot for DEN.

How exactly do those 2 players' stats when they weren't with DEN match up with Dayne's stats prior to this year?

As before, I'll wait....

post edit - BTW, Sapp is a FB. I don't see how he & Dayne are going to compete H2H for the same position. But I'd take your explanation on that also...

I notice you completely ignored the fact that I totally destroyed the entire basis of your argument; proved that your own stats showed not that Dayne is a mis-used talent waiting to explode, but instead a below-mediocre back who, even if given a starting role and 300+ carries couldn't expect to crack the top 15 RBs.[And I left out the part about there being three capable RBs ahead of him on the depth chart].

 

[Family Matters]

He's simply not a good NFL RB.

You don't know that yet. What you do know is that he didn't perform very well in most games with a very mediocre Giants' running game with a suspect rush-blocking O-line - though when given enough carries he performed at an adequate level for a starting NFL RB.To state anything beyond that is pure conjecture, which you seem to be unwilling to admit.

Then we should assume Tiki is an awesome back? He hasn't had any trouble running behind the same line.

 

[Family Matters]

Adding more fuel to the fire:

Brandon Hunt; Aurora, Colo.

I was little surprised with the signing of Ron Dayne. Was that move maybe made to try him at fullback and push the other backs since he's not a typical Broncos back?

Gary Kubiak

Well, I wouldn't say he's not a typical Broncos back. I don't think any of us know right now. What we saw in Ron Dayne, is a kid that when he came out of college was the type of back that we like. We weren't able to draft him, he went to another team. Ron Dayne is a one-cut, zone runner. That's what he was in college and it's kind of what we do. We think he fits what we do and we're going to give him the opportunity to play the tailback position. What's going to happen? I don't know. That's going to be up to Ron Dayne and how hard he works and the price he pays to be a part of this football team, but we kind of like his chances with what we do, so we'll see. We like the kid a lot. It's a fresh start for him, sometimes that's good for a lot of players in this league so hopefully it will be good for Ron Dayne.

LINK

"I don't think any of us know right now" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

[P Boy]

First off, yes, I firmly believe that Tiki Barber is a much better RB than he gets credit as being. The guy performs above & beyond, doesn't thump his own chest, and cares more about the team than about his own personal aggrandizement.

Secondly, some people here apparently have the mistaken impression that I think Ron Dayne is the next great DEN RB coming up. I don't. I do think Dayne is capable of being a solid NFL RB given the proper system & opportunity, and I do think that some stats are available which would support this conclusion - not prove it, but support it. However, to simply dismiss him as being a turd because of his very limited opportunity on a very mediocre rushing team like the Giants under suspect coaching bodes as a short-sighted and possibly dumb mistake when DEN has taken other RBs with much less talent and made them legitimate running threats both in NFL terms and by FF standards.

The potential is there, and to simply dismiss it out of hand it is foolhardy, IMO. Is it an uphill climb for Dayne? Yes. Does he most likely need Bell to be injured to get a decent shot? Yes. Has he overcome greater obstacles in his life? Yes. Could he be the 2nd best RB on DEN's roster right now? Possibly.

 

[CalBear]

It's funny how a mediocre running team like the Giants can produce a 1500-yard rusher and the #1 fantasy running back in many scoring sytems (#2 in most others).Dayne got to start this year in the first game. He had 13 carries for 45 yards (less than 3.5 ypc) while Tiki had 9 carries for 125 yards (13.9 ypc), putting Dayne solidly on the bench where he belonged for the rest of the year. And after losing the game where they started Dayne, they won 5 of the next 6 with Barber starting and carrying the load.Since you've failed to provide any statistical evidence that Dayne can be as effective a running back as the three backs ahead of him in Denver (or as effective as a ton of backups elsewhere in the league), and now it's been conclusively proven that the Giants were not a mediocre running team holding his stats down, could you please drop the subject?

 

[Otis]

Folks just love to bash Dayne. It's comical to watch.Remember last year when we had the SAME discussion about Thomas Jones? What a bum, what a bust, he never amounted to anything. Three-games into the season sportsline was proclaiming him the next Priest Holmes. What a difference a day makes...They don't just give out Heisman trophies for giggles. The guy has proven in the past that he clearly has teh god-given ability. And much the same way Thomas Jones floundered until he had his chance, Dayne could be ready to move in the right direction.Is it a lock? Of course not. But as I've said before, give me a Heisman back behind that Denver offensive line any day. You can call him a bum all you want, but that upside is undeniable.As to those other RBs in Denver, I don't see any real threats to Dayne's #2 status, and ahead of him at #1 I see a guy who could very easily get hurt. That's all it took for Droughs last year (a guy I will argue has less god-given ability than Dayne), and that's all it will take this year.Do not be surprised if Dayne resurrects his career this year in Denver.

 

[P Boy]

Since you've failed to provide any statistical evidence that Dayne can be as effective a running back as the three backs ahead of him in Denver (or as effective as a ton of backups elsewhere in the league), and now it's been conclusively proven that the Giants were not a mediocre running team holding his stats down, could you please drop the subject?

Yep, here's conclusive proof that the Giants were a great rushing team for the duration that Dayne was there:Year Rushing rank2004 112003 282002 142001 152000 11That's just conclusive proof that the Giants are a top shelf rushing team and have been for 5 years.And would you please enumerate Droughn's stats before he arrived at DEN, and Gary's stats since he left DEN, and compare them to Dayne's career stats so far, and then use that as conclusive proof that Dayne can't put up decent numbers in DEN if somehow the opportunity befell him?Because you state that something must be absolute simply because you think it should be is awfully arrogant, don't you think?

 

[CalBear]

Folks just love to bash Dayne. It's comical to watch.

Remember last year when we had the SAME discussion about Thomas Jones? What a bum, what a bust, he never amounted to anything. Three-games into the season sportsline was proclaiming him the next Priest Holmes. What a difference a day makes...

They don't just give out Heisman trophies for giggles. The guy has proven in the past that he clearly has teh god-given ability. And much the same way Thomas Jones floundered until he had his chance, Dayne could be ready to move in the right direction.

Is it a lock? Of course not. But as I've said before, give me a Heisman back behind that Denver offensive line any day. You can call him a bum all you want, but that upside is undeniable.

As to those other RBs in Denver, I don't see any real threats to Dayne's #2 status, and ahead of him at #1 I see a guy who could very easily get hurt. That's all it took for Droughs last year (a guy I will argue has less god-given ability than Dayne), and that's all it will take this year.

Do not be surprised if Dayne resurrects his career this year in Denver.

Jones was a chump going into 2004, and he's still a chump now. He had one average game and two good games against bad defenses, and then sucked for most of the year. And don't bring out that tired "but Rex Grossman got hurt" crap; Grossman sucked before his injury, he wasn't doing anything to keep defenses honest with his 1 TD in 3 games vs. 3 INTs.More to the point, we had this same debate over the specific RB in question, Ron Dayne, before the 2004 season; he got his chance to start, he sucked, he got benched. Again. How many times does it have to happen before people believe that his most appropriate role is to be a bench-warmer?

 

[Otis]

Folks just love to bash Dayne.  It's comical to watch.

Remember last year when we had the SAME discussion about Thomas Jones?  What a bum, what a bust, he never amounted to anything.  Three-games into the season sportsline was proclaiming him the next Priest Holmes.  What a difference a day makes...

They don't just give out Heisman trophies for giggles.  The guy has proven in the past that he clearly has teh god-given ability.  And much the same way Thomas Jones floundered until he had his chance, Dayne could be ready to move in the right direction.

Is it a lock?  Of course not.  But as I've said before, give me a Heisman back behind that Denver offensive line any day.  You can call him a bum all you want, but that upside is undeniable.

As to those other RBs in Denver, I don't see any real threats to Dayne's #2 status, and ahead of him at #1 I see a guy who could very easily get hurt.  That's all it took for Droughs last year (a guy I will argue has less god-given ability than Dayne), and that's all it will take this year.

Do not be surprised if Dayne resurrects his career this year in Denver.

Jones was a chump going into 2004, and he's still a chump now. He had one average game and two good games against bad defenses, and then sucked for most of the year. And don't bring out that tired "but Rex Grossman got hurt" crap; Grossman sucked before his injury, he wasn't doing anything to keep defenses honest with his 1 TD in 3 games vs. 3 INTs.More to the point, we had this same debate over the specific RB in question, Ron Dayne, before the 2004 season; he got his chance to start, he sucked, he got benched. Again. How many times does it have to happen before people believe that his most appropriate role is to be a bench-warmer?

If you can't admit Thomas Jones looked good last year than I can't argue with you, not on Jones, Dayne, or the color of the sky.

 

[CalBear]

Since you've failed to provide any statistical evidence that Dayne can be as effective a running back as the three backs ahead of him in Denver (or as effective as a ton of backups elsewhere in the league), and now it's been conclusively proven that the Giants were not a mediocre running team holding his stats down, could you please drop the subject?

Yep, here's conclusive proof that the Giants were a great rushing team for the duration that Dayne was there:Year Rushing rank

2004 11

2003 28

2002 14

2001 15

2000 11

That's just conclusive proof that the Giants are a top shelf rushing team and have been for 5 years.

And would you please enumerate Droughn's stats before he arrived at DEN, and Gary's stats since he left DEN, and compare them to Dayne's career stats so far, and then use that as conclusive proof that Dayne can't put up decent numbers in DEN if somehow the opportunity befell him?

Because you state that something must be absolute simply because you think it should be is awfully arrogant, don't you think?

Four years in the top 15 in yardage is not "mediocre"; it's "above-average" at least. And of course you leave out the fact that Giants RBs (not Dayne) are among the tops in receiving yardage by RBs over the same period. To bring up Droughns is asinine; Droughns had 40 carries in his career before he came to Denver, as a short-yardage fullback. He never had started a game in his career. Dayne has had ample chances, including 11 starts.

Olandis Gary is also completely irrelevant; he was never the same after his injury, including the rest of his time in Denver.

It might be the case that if Dayne takes out contracts on Bell, Anderson, and Griffin, that he would be the best RB the Broncos had on their roster; but if that happened, they would find another RB on the market rather than use Dayne as a starter.

 

[CalBear]

If you can't admit Thomas Jones looked good last year than I can't argue with you, not on Jones, Dayne, or the color of the sky.

He looked good only against the weak defenses of the NFC North. Against the rest of the league he had 125 carries for 352 yards (2.8 ypc) and 1 TD in 7 games; putrid numbers.To be fair, he gets to play the NFC North again this year, although the defenses may turn out to be less pathetic.

 

[P Boy]

Four years in the top 15 in yardage is not "mediocre"; it's "above-average" at least.  And of course you leave out the fact that Giants RBs (not Dayne) are among the tops in receiving yardage by RBs over the same period. To bring up Droughns is asinine; Droughns had 40 carries in his career before he came to Denver, as a short-yardage fullback.  He never had started a game in his career.  Dayne has had ample chances, including 11 starts.Olandis Gary is also completely irrelevant; he was never the same after his injury, including the rest of his time in Denver.It might be the case that if Dayne takes out contracts on Bell, Anderson, and Griffin, that he would be the best RB the Broncos had on their roster; but if that happened, they would find another RB on the market rather than use Dayne as a starter.

Not one year in the top 10, and 1 of 5 years well into the bottom 10 qualifies as mediocre to me. Perhaps not for you. And then you go on to state that part of your proof that the Giants are a very good rushing team is that the RBs excel in the passing game. Now that's an interesting twist of logic.If you think that the measure of a good RB is that they catch a lot of passes out of the backfield, then you don't understand the DEN RB philosophy, at least before Portis got to DEN. That Dayne isn't much of a receiving threat out of the backfield will have little impact one way or the other on his ability to earn a job as a RB in DEN.Droughns was drafted by DET as a RB (LINK to 2001 Lions' roster). He never got a chance to play RB because of various injuries, and then DET gave up on him. DEN turned him into a FB - in fact he originally wanted to be a RB in DEN and Shanahan had a devil of a time convincing him that he could make a living as a FB. So please lay off the "assinine" crap until you get a firm grasp of the facts.

 

[CalBear]

Forget it; I'll come back when you've flipped the write-protect tab on your brain.

 

[P Boy]

Forget it; I'll come back when you've flipped the write-protect tab on your brain.

Now THAT'S a really intelligent & coherent comeback well founded in indisputable facts.I shouldn't have expected any less...

 

[Otis]

If you can't admit Thomas Jones looked good last year than I can't argue with you, not on Jones, Dayne, or the color of the sky.

He looked good only against the weak defenses of the NFC North. Against the rest of the league he had 125 carries for 352 yards (2.8 ypc) and 1 TD in 7 games; putrid numbers.To be fair, he gets to play the NFC North again this year, although the defenses may turn out to be less pathetic.

Yeah, that's true - every visiting RB craves a day at Lambeau.

 

[CalBear]

If you can't admit Thomas Jones looked good last year than I can't argue with you, not on Jones, Dayne, or the color of the sky.

He looked good only against the weak defenses of the NFC North. Against the rest of the league he had 125 carries for 352 yards (2.8 ypc) and 1 TD in 7 games; putrid numbers.To be fair, he gets to play the NFC North again this year, although the defenses may turn out to be less pathetic.

Yeah, that's true - every visiting RB craves a day at Lambeau.

Green Bay gave up 4.59 yards per carry in 2004, 27th in the league.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Folks just love to bash Dayne.  It's comical to watch.

Remember last year when we had the SAME discussion about Thomas Jones?  What a bum, what a bust, he never amounted to anything.  Three-games into the season sportsline was proclaiming him the next Priest Holmes.  What a difference a day makes...

They don't just give out Heisman trophies for giggles.  The guy has proven in the past that he clearly has teh god-given ability.  And much the same way Thomas Jones floundered until he had his chance, Dayne could be ready to move in the right direction.

Is it a lock?  Of course not.  But as I've said before, give me a Heisman back behind that Denver offensive line any day.  You can call him a bum all you want, but that upside is undeniable.

As to those other RBs in Denver, I don't see any real threats to Dayne's #2 status, and ahead of him at #1 I see a guy who could very easily get hurt.  That's all it took for Droughs last year (a guy I will argue has less god-given ability than Dayne), and that's all it will take this year.

Do not be surprised if Dayne resurrects his career this year in Denver.

Actually, I like Thomas Jones a lot. So much so that before last year I went out and got him in every league I was in.Not that that really means much, but I just throw it out there to indicate that at least in my case, it isn't really a case of piling on. Some guys I think have legit reasons for underwhelming performance (like Jones). Others, like Dayne, just look like bad running backs to me.

When a back's numbers are bad, he LOOKS bad, and other people succeed where he fails, and this continues over a four year period, that's pretty much all I need to see.

Jones had intermitent spots where he looked pretty darn good, and his early years were spent with a team that tended to make everyone look bad. But I have never seen anything all that impressive coming from Dayne and other backs around him have excelled. Totally different situations IMO.

I can definitely see where folks might not be sold on Jones - he has had a lot of opportunities and has never really put it all together, but for the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would still be making excuses for Dayne.

People keep talking about all of this talent, but it isn't there. Heisman or no, Ron Dayne is a bust and he is not a starting caliber NFL running back. At some point folks just have to see that the scouts just F'd up on this one. You can only make excuses for so long.

 

[Otis]

Heisman or no, Ron Dayne is a bust and he is not a starting caliber NFL running back. At some point folks just have to see that the scouts just F'd up on this one.

Did all the opposing defenses that played against Dayne while he was in college miss the memo too?

 

[Wu-banger]

He Smokes too much weed and has a been long rumored to be responsible for the murder of Ex-Bills LB Damien Covington.

That's news to me. Please elaborate.

News to me too. Here's an article on Covington's death; Covington and Dayne appear to have been cousins:

Posted on Mon, Dec. 02, 2002

Marc Narducci | Covington's loss is mourned by coaches and former rival

By Marc Narducci

Inquirer Columnist

He will go down as one of the best athletes in South Jersey history. But sadly, now all we have are memories of former Overbrook star Damien Covington.

The area has been deeply shaken by the news that Covington died late Friday of multiple gunshot wounds when he got into a fight with armed robbers who broke into a party at the Coachman Manor Apartments in Lindenwold, according to the Camden County Prosecutor's office.

The 29-year-old Covington was The Inquirer's South Jersey male athlete of the year in 1991. That means he earned an award that was won by, among others, Carl Lewis of Willingboro, arguably the greatest Olympian of all-time; and Ron Dayne, also a former Overbrook star, who won the Heisman Trophy his senior year at Wisconsin and is a member of the New York Giants.

That is the kind of company that Covington kept with his athletic exploits. Off the field, he was just as impressive.

"Damien was just an excellent kid to coach, and not only was he an outstanding football player and athlete, but he was a great leader," said Larry Mauriello, who was Covington's football head coach and assistant wrestling coach at Overbrook.

Covington's senior year in football and wrestling at Overbrook ranks with the best ever. He transferred in the spring of his junior year in 1990 from Edgewood to Overbrook. As a senior, he was an Inquirer first-team all-South Jersey linebacker who led the Rams to the South Jersey Group 3 championship.

Also a fullback on offense, he never left the field in 11 games for the Rams, according to Mauriello.

"He was a very unassuming, polite youngster," Mauriello recalled. "Coming into a new school, it could have created resentment because he'd be taking somebody's spot, but it was like he was there all his life, and the guys rallied around him."

Despite earning a football scholarship to North Carolina State and playing three seasons with the Buffalo Bills until suffering a career-ending knee injury in 1997, Covington will be most noted in South Jersey for his wrestling exploits, specifically two gigantic matches with Ocean City's Patrick Lynch.

When athletes are remembered, they are frequently linked with their biggest rival. There is Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, and Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain, to name a few.

When Covington is mentioned in wrestling terms, his name is invariably paired with Lynch's. The two combined for two of the most memorable athletic events in South Jersey history in any sport.

Both wrestled at 189 pounds as seniors, and their meeting in the championship of the Region 8 tournament at Absegami was highly anticipated.

Lynch had won two consecutive state titles and entered the Region 8 championship with 99 consecutive wins. Covington was unbeaten but still the underdog.

Covington beat Lynch, 8-4, to win the Region 8 championship.

"That Region 8 final was as good as it gets, and it brought the house down," Absegami coach Gene Barber recalled. "I've never seen anything like the anticipation leading up to the match."

The next week, the two met again in the 189-pound state championship before more than 9,000 fans at Princeton's Jadwin Gym. Covington was again the victor, this time by a 5-3 score. He finished 31-0 for the season.

"Both of us went on to bigger and better things, but I think we'll always be remembered around South Jersey for our two matches," Lynch said yesterday. "People come up to me all the time and talk about it."

Lynch, who is an assistant coach at Absegami, became an all-American wrestler at Arizona State University.

"I think people will always link the two of us together," Lynch said. "I think we were the top two wrestlers in the state that year, and we happened to be in the same weight class."

In June 1991, Mauriello was the defensive coordinator for the North-South all-star football game. Covington was one of the starting linebackers on the team.

"Every coach was fighting over him," Mauriello said. "They all wanted him on the punt team, the kickoff team, every special team. He made such a quick impression on all the coaches."

So much of what we do is taken for granted, especially the right to live. When somebody so young, with so much potential, loses his life, it is cause for deep reflection.

"It makes you really appreciate what you have," Lynch said.

For those who were close to Covington, they will remember him not only for all he accomplished in athletics but for how well he related to others.

"He had a great personality and people were drawn to him," Mauriello said. "That's why it's so hard to accept what has happened."

Great article on Covington, I was at the Lynch match at Absegami, but like most moritorium articles they do not go into the sublects demise.Here is the story......

Covington , like most athletes, did not invest his money wisely and had numerous people looking for handouts so when he got hurt he was not doing so well financially and drug use is "speculated". The location of where he got shot is proof to the kin. He looked to Dayne for support , but did not get what he wanted. He was rumored to be a suspect in break-in's to 3 of Daynes properties including his apartment in NY getting trashed.Then the men who killed Covington, roughly 2 weeks after the break-in, were linked to Dayne. Connect the dots..

Surprised there are people that dont think an NFL player would be involved in the like.

 

[Family Matters]

Heisman or no, Ron Dayne is a bust and he is not a starting caliber NFL running back.  At some point folks just have to see that the scouts just F'd up on this one. 

Did all the opposing defenses that played against Dayne while he was in college miss the memo too?

So IOW-ignore the years in the NFL and go back to college to find some good games? Really? I hope you're just being sarcastic.College means very little to the NFL once the draft is over. Once you're in the NFL and you have a few years under your belt, team's tend to forget about what you did in college.

But you are right, he did do great in college. Unfortunately he just can't seem to do so well in the NFL.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Heisman or no, Ron Dayne is a bust and he is not a starting caliber NFL running back.  At some point folks just have to see that the scouts just F'd up on this one. 

Did all the opposing defenses that played against Dayne while he was in college miss the memo too?

In case YOU haven't gotten the memo, college is not the NFL.Here are some Heisman Trophy Winners:

Jason White

Eric Crouch

Chris Weinke

Ron Dayne

Danny Wuerffel

Rashan Salaam

Gino Torretta

Desmond Howard

Ty Detmer

An that's just in the last 15 years or so.

 

[Family Matters]

Four years in the top 15 in yardage is not "mediocre"; it's "above-average" at least.  And of course you leave out the fact that Giants RBs (not Dayne) are among the tops in receiving yardage by RBs over the same period.

To bring up Droughns is asinine; Droughns had 40 carries in his career before he came to Denver, as a short-yardage fullback.  He never had started a game in his career.  Dayne has had ample chances, including 11 starts.

Olandis Gary is also completely irrelevant; he was never the same after his injury, including the rest of his time in Denver.

It might be the case that if Dayne takes out contracts on Bell, Anderson, and Griffin, that he would be the best RB the Broncos had on their roster; but if that happened, they would find another RB on the market rather than use Dayne as a starter.

Not one year in the top 10, and 1 of 5 years well into the bottom 10 qualifies as mediocre to me. Perhaps not for you. And then you go on to state that part of your proof that the Giants are a very good rushing team is that the RBs excel in the passing game. Now that's an interesting twist of logic.If you think that the measure of a good RB is that they catch a lot of passes out of the backfield, then you don't understand the DEN RB philosophy, at least before Portis got to DEN. That Dayne isn't much of a receiving threat out of the backfield will have little impact one way or the other on his ability to earn a job as a RB in DEN.

Droughns was drafted by DET as a RB (LINK to 2001 Lions' roster). He never got a chance to play RB because of various injuries, and then DET gave up on him. DEN turned him into a FB - in fact he originally wanted to be a RB in DEN and Shanahan had a devil of a time convincing him that he could make a living as a FB. So please lay off the "assinine" crap until you get a firm grasp of the facts.

So if I understand you correctly, the Giants are mediocre a rushing team? Yet Tiki has been one of the best RB's in the league for the last few years? Maybe if Dayne were better they would of been a better rushing team?How can Tiki be so successful and Dayne not? What causes this? Please help everyone understand how Tiki can do so well and Dayne so poorly.

 

[Rockton]

Four years in the top 15 in yardage is not "mediocre"; it's "above-average" at least.  And of course you leave out the fact that Giants RBs (not Dayne) are among the tops in receiving yardage by RBs over the same period.

To bring up Droughns is asinine; Droughns had 40 carries in his career before he came to Denver, as a short-yardage fullback.  He never had started a game in his career.  Dayne has had ample chances, including 11 starts.

Olandis Gary is also completely irrelevant; he was never the same after his injury, including the rest of his time in Denver.

It might be the case that if Dayne takes out contracts on Bell, Anderson, and Griffin, that he would be the best RB the Broncos had on their roster; but if that happened, they would find another RB on the market rather than use Dayne as a starter.

Not one year in the top 10, and 1 of 5 years well into the bottom 10 qualifies as mediocre to me. Perhaps not for you. And then you go on to state that part of your proof that the Giants are a very good rushing team is that the RBs excel in the passing game. Now that's an interesting twist of logic.If you think that the measure of a good RB is that they catch a lot of passes out of the backfield, then you don't understand the DEN RB philosophy, at least before Portis got to DEN. That Dayne isn't much of a receiving threat out of the backfield will have little impact one way or the other on his ability to earn a job as a RB in DEN.

Droughns was drafted by DET as a RB (LINK to 2001 Lions' roster). He never got a chance to play RB because of various injuries, and then DET gave up on him. DEN turned him into a FB - in fact he originally wanted to be a RB in DEN and Shanahan had a devil of a time convincing him that he could make a living as a FB. So please lay off the "assinine" crap until you get a firm grasp of the facts.

So if I understand you correctly, the Giants are mediocre a rushing team? Yet Tiki has been one of the best RB's in the league for the last few years? Maybe if Dayne were better they would of been a better rushing team?How can Tiki be so successful and Dayne not? What causes this? Please help everyone understand how Tiki can do so well and Dayne so poorly.

It takes courage to make a statement that states something will happen that has not happened before. It takes none to state facts that have happened and then to say things will carry on as they were.

 

[mbuehner]

It takes courage to make a statement that states something will happen that has not happened before. It takes none to state facts that have happened and then to say things will carry on as they were.

Dont confuse courage with wisdom.

 

[cstu]

These are several things that I know to be true, I'll let you guys figure out what they mean:1) Tiki Barber is a great RB and is the perfect RB for the Giants2) Dayne is not a great RB and has major problems running behind a line that doesn't open huge holes. However, he has averaged 3.5 YPC in an offense not made for him.3) The Broncos have a OL that opens holes and allows even RB's with average speed to be successful.4) Reuben Droughns has a 2.4 YPC during 3 years with Detroit and was considered a complete bust.5) When Droughns finally got a chance to start for the Broncos due to injury, he ran for 1240 yards and nearly doubled his career YPC.

 

[mbuehner]

Buuuut, Quentin Griffin failed in Denver because he couldnt break tackles and went down on first contact. Which is exactly what Ron Dayne does. Droughns is a bruiser that can get away from an arm tackle, Dayne is a wussy that trips over the line of scrimmage.

 

[P Boy]

Buuuut, Quentin Griffin failed in Denver because he couldnt break tackles and went down on first contact. Which is exactly what Ron Dayne does. Droughns is a bruiser that can get away from an arm tackle, Dayne is a wussy that trips over the line of scrimmage.

And if that is the way he performs in DEN, then he'll be a preseason cut, & rightfully sf course, I can't help but think of people here that stated that Portis was a notorious fumbler & Shanahan would bench him because he coughed up the ball so much. How many fumbles did Portis have & lose in games that counted?

I can't help but think of people at cheatsheets.net stating that Terrell Davis was a bench warmer at Georgia with a lousy attitude that would get cut before the regular season started. How did that turn out?

I can't help but think of the people that stated that Mike Anderson was too old and played in a pansy conference and had hands of stone, but what was the outcome of that?

The Lions completed caved on Droughns being a wasted draft pick and traded him to DEN for a bucket of spit, yet 3 years later how did that turn out?

I can't help but think that Shanahan has an uncannily special eye for talented RBs that he can get on the cheap & then manages to turn them into impact players. I don't know how he does it but he has a gift, there can be little question about that. And if Shanahan sees something in this former Heisman winner & former 1st round draft pick that the Giants just gave up on, who's to say he can't turn Dayne into an impact RB also. He already has taken a WR off the Giants' scrapheap for next to nothing and made him a significant WR - or have we forgotten Ed McCaffrey already?

You naysayers could very well be right, but please forgive me if I pause to give Dayne a chance if Shanahan thought he might be worthy of competing for a spot in the DEN backfield. I'll trust his judgment on RBs a little bit more than I'll trust some of the talent evaluators here, thank you.

 

[Family Matters]

Buuuut, Quentin Griffin failed in Denver because he couldnt break tackles and went down on first contact. Which is exactly what Ron Dayne does. Droughns is a bruiser that can get away from an arm tackle, Dayne is a wussy that trips over the line of scrimmage.

And if that is the way he performs in DEN, then he'll be a preseason cut, & rightfully sf course, I can't help but think of people here that stated that Portis was a notorious fumbler & Shanahan would bench him because he coughed up the ball so much. How many fumbles did Portis have & lose in games that counted?

I can't help but think of people at cheatsheets.net stating that Terrell Davis was a bench warmer at Georgia with a lousy attitude that would get cut before the regular season started. How did that turn out?

I can't help but think of the people that stated that Mike Anderson was too old and played in a pansy conference and had hands of stone, but what was the outcome of that?

The Lions completed caved on Droughns being a wasted draft pick and traded him to DEN for a bucket of spit, yet 3 years later how did that turn out?

I can't help but think that Shanahan has an uncannily special eye for talented RBs that he can get on the cheap & then manages to turn them into impact players. I don't know how he does it but he has a gift, there can be little question about that. And if Shanahan sees something in this former Heisman winner & former 1st round draft pick that the Giants just gave up on, who's to say he can't turn Dayne into an impact RB also. He already has taken a WR off the Giants' scrapheap for next to nothing and made him a significant WR - or have we forgotten Ed McCaffrey already?

You naysayers could very well be right, but please forgive me if I pause to give Dayne a chance if Shanahan thought he might be worthy of competing for a spot in the DEN backfield. I'll trust his judgment on RBs a little bit more than I'll trust some of the talent evaluators here, thank you.

Your best post yet. The only difference I can see is that your references aren't quite the same situation. Davis, Portis, Droughns & Anderson had yet to show their skills in the NFL. Judgements on unproven players are far more difficult than on players we've seen in the NFL before. Droughns had a mere 90 carries, (as a FB not RB) most of which were no doubt short yardage situations and gave us very little to go on.

Now Dayne, he's shown us what he can't do. There is too much evidence to suggest he's a good RB.

Will the Den system make him better? Absolutely. No one has disagreed with you on that. What mnay of us have said is that Dayne is less talented than other Denver RB's. You can argue that if you will but we're off what he's shown us.

For you suggest that he's now a btter RB is really just the system making him look good. Like you said, others that have left are never as good as they were in Denver. No reason thing Dayne is suddenly a better RB now that he's in Denver.

Like I said several times, if he gets the chance he'll perform.

 

[Otis]

I think I know why he's floundered thus far - Ron Dayne has ADD.

 

[Mr. Pink]

This thread has the second most posts on the front page of the Shark Pool forum.Aaaaaarrrrgghhhhh!!!!! How does Dayne do this to us?!?!?!

 

[Family Matters]

This thread has the second most posts on the front page of the Shark Pool forum.

Aaaaaarrrrgghhhhh!!!!! How does Dayne do this to us?!?!?!

So this what Dayne's good at.

 

[Bri]

every former heisman winner does this to us

 

[houndirish]

This Ron Dayne argument never dies. As a giant fan who has unfortunately had to witness the clown's pro career up to this point I can tell you that Dayne is using some of the same excuses he's been drumming up for the last 3 years.Yes he got into Fassel's doghouse and ended up sitting out a year. I don't think it was handled well by Fassell but Dayne was a flop before that. He simply doesn't run like a big man. I've never seen him run over a tackler during his stay in NY. He goes down after the first hit consistently. He is horribly inept in short yardage situations. He dances around the backfield without hitting the hole and then stumbles if soembody grabs his shoelace. If we're talking Dayne as a backup then I've got no problem with it. There are definitely worse running backs in the league playing secondstring. However Dayne won't supplant Bell anytime soon unless Tatum gets injured.

 

[Otis]

This Ron Dayne argument never dies.

As a giant fan who has unfortunately had to witness the clown's pro career up to this point I can tell you that Dayne is using some of the same excuses he's been drumming up for the last 3 years.

Yes he got into Fassel's doghouse and ended up sitting out a year. I don't think it was handled well by Fassell but Dayne was a flop before that. He simply doesn't run like a big man. I've never seen him run over a tackler during his stay in NY. He goes down after the first hit consistently. He is horribly inept in short yardage situations. He dances around the backfield without hitting the hole and then stumbles if soembody grabs his shoelace.

If we're talking Dayne as a backup then I've got no problem with it. There are definitely worse running backs in the league playing secondstring. However Dayne won't will supplant Bell anytime soon unless when Tatum gets injured.

Fixed.

 

[Family Matters]

This Ron Dayne argument never dies. 

As a giant fan who has unfortunately had to witness the clown's pro career up to this point I can tell you that Dayne is using some of the same excuses he's been drumming up for the last 3 years.

Yes he got into Fassel's doghouse and ended up sitting out a year.  I don't think it was handled well by Fassell but Dayne was a flop before that.  He simply doesn't run like a big man.  I've never seen him run over a tackler during his stay in NY.  He goes down after the first hit consistently.  He is horribly inept in short yardage situations.  He dances around the backfield without hitting the hole and then stumbles if soembody grabs his shoelace. 

If we're talking Dayne as a backup then I've got no problem with it.  There are definitely worse running backs in the league playing secondstring.  However Dayne won't will supplant Bell anytime soon unless when Tatum gets injured.

Fixed.

Otis, in the future please don't injure my keeper(s). I need them to do well. You're putting a hex on my guy and now I have to trade him away. TIA

 

[Otis]

This Ron Dayne argument never dies. 

As a giant fan who has unfortunately had to witness the clown's pro career up to this point I can tell you that Dayne is using some of the same excuses he's been drumming up for the last 3 years.

Yes he got into Fassel's doghouse and ended up sitting out a year.  I don't think it was handled well by Fassell but Dayne was a flop before that.  He simply doesn't run like a big man.  I've never seen him run over a tackler during his stay in NY.  He goes down after the first hit consistently.  He is horribly inept in short yardage situations.  He dances around the backfield without hitting the hole and then stumbles if soembody grabs his shoelace. 

If we're talking Dayne as a backup then I've got no problem with it.  There are definitely worse running backs in the league playing secondstring.  However Dayne won't will supplant Bell anytime soon unless when Tatum gets injured.

Fixed.

Otis, in the future please don't injure my keeper(s). I need them to do well. You're putting a hex on my guy and now I have to trade him away. TIA

As a Dayne owner, it's my moral obligation.(Oh, and do you also own Priest? Because I own LJ...)

 

[timintey]

What the Giants missed out on by drafting Dayne:

11 (11) New York Giants - Ron Dayne, RB Wisconsin

12 (12) New York Jets - Shaun Ellis, DE Tennessee

13 (13) New York Jets - John Abraham, LB South Carolina

14 (14) Green Bay Packers - Bubba Franks, TE Miami (FL)

15 (15) Denver Broncos - Deltha O'Neal, DB California

16 (16) San Francisco 49ers - Julian Peterson, LB Michigan State

17 (17) Oakland Raiders - Sebastian Janikowski, K Florida State

18 (18) New York Jets - Chad Pennington, QB Marshall

19 (19) Seattle Seahawks - Shaun Alexander, RB Alabama

Of course this is the team that has killed me with first rounders such as:

- Butch Woolfolk

- Eric Moore

- Jarrod Bunch

- Derek Brown

- Thomas Lewis

- Cedric Jones

 

[Family Matters]

This Ron Dayne argument never dies. 

As a giant fan who has unfortunately had to witness the clown's pro career up to this point I can tell you that Dayne is using some of the same excuses he's been drumming up for the last 3 years.

Yes he got into Fassel's doghouse and ended up sitting out a year.  I don't think it was handled well by Fassell but Dayne was a flop before that.  He simply doesn't run like a big man.  I've never seen him run over a tackler during his stay in NY.  He goes down after the first hit consistently.  He is horribly inept in short yardage situations.  He dances around the backfield without hitting the hole and then stumbles if soembody grabs his shoelace. 

If we're talking Dayne as a backup then I've got no problem with it.  There are definitely worse running backs in the league playing secondstring.  However Dayne won't will supplant Bell anytime soon unless when Tatum gets injured.

Fixed.

Otis, in the future please don't injure my keeper(s). I need them to do well. You're putting a hex on my guy and now I have to trade him away. TIA

As a Dayne owner, it's my moral obligation.(Oh, and do you also own Priest? Because I own LJ...)

Nooooooooooooooooooo!Note to self: trade Preist

 

[Holy Schneikes]

What are the odds now that Dayne gets cut before the season starts?

 

[Bri]

I don't know. I'd say very likely but Shanny's ego would receive such a huge boost if he could make this former heisman winner play well. Gotta give him a little time to lose the ego (regarding that one player)

 

[Family Matters]

I don't know. I'd say very likely but Shanny's ego would receive such a huge boost if he could make this former heisman winner play well. Gotta give him a little time to lose the ego (regarding that one player)

Many have said that about Shanny before. But then what about his ego on all the other players he's drafted or acquired by FA? His ego can't make them all good. I wouldn't worry about his ego so much and focus on the player that has the talent to get the job done. That would be Bell.

 

[Raiders Fan]

Fat and Slow and a body at RB.. I can't believe there is any talk about a RB that hasn't cut it ever..

 

[mbuehner]

Im just glad this thread is back.

 

[Bri]

I don't know. I'd say very likely but Shanny's ego would receive such a huge boost if he could make this former heisman winner play well. Gotta give him a little time to lose the ego (regarding that one player)

Many have said that about Shanny before. But then what about his ego on all the other players he's drafted or acquired by FA? His ego can't make them all good. I wouldn't worry about his ego so much and focus on the player that has the talent to get the job done. That would be Bell.

Question didn't concern Bell Shanny has done well with some players but not everyone.

Champ was a no brainer, over the years he's struggled with CBs.

Pryce is very good, over the years he's struggled with DL.

Besides Lelie, I can't recall the last WR he drafted that I really liked.

I can't remember a QB he ever drafted that panned out.

Alot of picks with above positions.

He's been especially good with OL, LB, and RB, absolutely.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

After yet another fantabulous off/pre-season, Ron Dayne is back where he belongs - on the bench.There were a lot of threads after his amazing "8 for 44" game about how Denver was going to start "relying" on him. Then the REAL Ron Dayne showed up and gave us THIS trend:8 for 443 for 62 for 3inactiveMy question:How soon will someone (or several someones) on this board proclaim that "this is the year" for Dayne and that "he hasn't been given a real chance yet" after he looks somewhat like an actual NFL RB in PREseason for some other team.

 

[P Boy]

After yet another fantabulous off/pre-season, Ron Dayne is back where he belongs - on the bench.

There were a lot of threads after his amazing "8 for 44" game about how Denver was going to start "relying" on him. Then the REAL Ron Dayne showed up and gave us THIS trend:

8 for 44

3 for 6

2 for 3

inactive

My question:

How soon will someone (or several someones) on this board proclaim that "this is the year" for Dayne and that "he hasn't been given a real chance yet" after he looks somewhat like an actual NFL RB in PREseason for some other team.

What's you reasoning behind dredging this thread back up? Does it give you some kind of weird satisfaction, or is it that you're wrong so much that you have to pimp the times that you're right?Dayne is a very solid backup who has performed very well in the regular season game that he was called in to carry the load - a game that may have turned around DEN's season, I might add. With Anderson & Bell performing so well, Dayne won't get many looks. But Anderson is 32 and has been getting nicked up, and Shanahan has suddenly seemed to like the idea of a RBBC - probably to utilize Bell but also to preserve him. If that's the case, Dayne could easily step into Anderson's role next season (or sooner if Anderson gets hurt).

Will you keep bumping this thread if that happens?

 

[Giant Buff]

the only good backup dayne is good at is backing his car up to dunkin donuts. this guys is dead wood and out of football next year.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

After yet another fantabulous off/pre-season, Ron Dayne is back where he belongs - on the bench.

There were a lot of threads after his amazing "8 for 44" game about how Denver was going to start "relying" on him.  Then the REAL Ron Dayne showed up and gave us THIS trend:

8 for 44

3 for 6

2 for 3

inactive

My question:

How soon will someone (or several someones) on this board proclaim that "this is the year" for Dayne and that "he hasn't been given a real chance yet" after he looks somewhat like an actual NFL RB in PREseason for some other team.

What's you reasoning behind dredging this thread back up? Does it give you some kind of weird satisfaction, or is it that you're wrong so much that you have to pimp the times that you're right?Dayne is a very solid backup who has performed very well in the regular season game that he was called in to carry the load - a game that may have turned around DEN's season, I might add. With Anderson & Bell performing so well, Dayne won't get many looks. But Anderson is 32 and has been getting nicked up, and Shanahan has suddenly seemed to like the idea of a RBBC - probably to utilize Bell but also to preserve him. If that's the case, Dayne could easily step into Anderson's role next season (or sooner if Anderson gets hurt).

Will you keep bumping this thread if that happens?

No, but you probably would. Funny how that works. As I said, after his one decent game, there WERE several threads claiming the guy was the stud he was in his college days and he just needed a system that "fit him".I will bump this thread again next pre-season if someone starts pimping Dayne again. You'd THINK that would be crazy at this point, but thought it was crazy THIS year.

But I will tip my hat to you this much:

I won't be bumping any of the threads were I suggested Lee Evans was going to be a very solid receiver and it didn't mater who started at QB. Yikes. Point is, we all get some wrong and some right (more right than wrong for me of course), but you'd expect to get your "props" when you make a fairly outlandish prediction that turns out well and you also have to expect to hear about it when it turns out the other way.