Ronald Jones II or Sony Michel in dynasty? (1 Viewer)

[Bojang0301]

He bulked up to 207 plus last year and had great results so I doubt he decided it would be a good idea to shed weight for the combine. In other words I got zero worries he is 200 pounds.

Now maybe you are like Bostonfred and just don't believe it until you see combine weigh-in. That is your call but to that I'd say if you want to look at it that way and not want to belive the player, school or multiple reports then why believe any player's height/weight until combine measurements? Why believe Barkley is 230 and not 215 if we are not going to believe player, school or multiple reports?

As long as he isn’t 190, I don’t care that much. Every link I found said 200, one article said he bulked to 205 last season. I don’t think anyone is expecting 215 or something like that here. BMI can’t predict  durability but it does lend creedance to the thought that a player is or is not big enough to be durable. In this case with him being 6’0 and having a slender frame I suppose it’s a valid concern but not one I put much stock in. What I want to see confirmed is his athleticism. He’s had some stinkers outside of his conference, especially the OSU game.

 

[Rodeojones]

That’s very false. The group think on this board is strong. The combine confirms things and is a strong tool to confirm or reject what is thought. Obviously he has good production on the ground and has produced flashy highlights. If he runs a 4.5 it’s going to be a major red flag. With his size he needs to run a 4.4 and preferably a sub 4.4. He needs to have elite athletic skills or the players he starts aligning with athletically have a high level of failure.

Your contradicting yourself.  You originally said: 

Right now I have a huge red flag over him and would consider him Paul Perkins until he can prove otherwise in the combine.

So your looking for Jones to prove something to you in the combine that you have not seen on tape which I took issue with.

Then in your response to me you say:

The combine confirms things and is a strong tool to confirm or reject what is thought.

So what is the combine used for??  To show you things the tape didn't show you (your first assertion) or to confirm (your second assertion) what the tape did tell you?.  

My point is this:  Every combine we enter with opinions on a player only to question them after a poor combine or SPARQ score (remember Dalvin Cook?).  The combine is scripted, practiced for, and in shirts and shorts.  The combine is the great deceiver and not the great revealer.  

Ronald Jones' tape speaks for itself and there is no need to over complicate things.  He's really good....

 

[JohnnyU]

Your contradicting yourself.  You originally said: 

So your looking for Jones to prove something to you in the combine that you have not seen on tape which I took issue with.

Then in your response to me you say:

So what is the combine used for??  To show you things the tape didn't show you (your first assertion) or to confirm (your second assertion) what the tape did tell you?.  

My point is this:  Every combine we enter with opinions on a player only to question them after a poor combine or SPARQ score (remember Dalvin Cook?).  The combine is scripted, practiced for, and in shirts and shorts.  The combine is the great deceiver and not the great revealer.  

Ronald Jones' tape speaks for itself and there is no need to over complicate things.  He's really good....

How many combine heros have to fail at the NFL level to show you to only put so much emphasis on the combine.

 

[Rodeojones]

How many combine heros have to fail at the NFL level to show you to only put so much emphasis on the combine.

That's my point....maybe I wasn't clear??  

 

[JohnnyU]

That's my point....maybe I wasn't clear??  

Wasn't really commenting on your post even though I replied to it.  Just making a general comment about the combine.

 

[Zyphros]

How many combine heros have to fail at the NFL level to show you to only put so much emphasis on the combine.

Ideally, we probably want both.  And I'm guessing we're going to get it this year in Barkley, and possibly Chubb.  

 

[Bojang0301]

Your contradicting yourself.  You originally said: 

So your looking for Jones to prove something to you in the combine that you have not seen on tape which I took issue with.

Then in your response to me you say:

So what is the combine used for??  To show you things the tape didn't show you (your first assertion) or to confirm (your second assertion) what the tape did tell you?.  

My point is this:  Every combine we enter with opinions on a player only to question them after a poor combine or SPARQ score (remember Dalvin Cook?).  The combine is scripted, practiced for, and in shirts and shorts.  The combine is the great deceiver and not the great revealer.  

Ronald Jones' tape speaks for itself and there is no need to over complicate things.  He's really good....

I don’t put a lot of emphasis on “film” watching, while it’s fun I don’t know what I’m looking for and I’ve found most on these forums, so called experts and even NFL pros don’t know what they are looking for either. You don’t always get the perfect combo as predictors of success in the NFL. Given Dalvin Cook’s frame, high level of collegiate production and above adequate speed reflected in the 40 (agreed that his agility score is probably not indicative, a deceiver, of what is his true agility) suggested NFL success. Jones has some really nice things going for him. He’s produced at a high level at a young age in a power 5. His lack of production in the receiving game does bother me as does his size. His size doesn’t bother me in the idea of durability, I care about durability, but don’t consider it a factor that can necessarily be predicted. At 6’0 200, or even 6’0 205, I see that BMI as needing high levels of athleticism to suggest success at the next level. When you combine that with the fact that he doesn’t look to be a receiving back at this stage of his career he has slimmer margin for failure than most backs. I could be singing a different tune after the combine. He does, at times, look to have elite level of burst and top end speed. Other times he looks physically and athletically overmatched like against Texas and OSU.

 

[JohnnyU]

Ideally, we probably want both.  And I'm guessing we're going to get it this year in Barkley, and possibly Chubb.  

Maybe with Barkley out of those two, but I suspect Jones will do very well.

 

[bostonfred]

Jones has some really nice things going for him. He’s produced at a high level at a young age in a power 5. 

To put his youth in perspective, the hall of fame game is August 2nd. Ronald Jones turns 21 on August 3rd. 

 

[Concept Coop]

Gtfoh. People on this board LOVED Paul Perkins coming out. You people have about 2 second memories and will easily let people compare him to Jamaal Charles without a whiff of restraint. I compare him to Perkins and everyone loses their mind. Perkins is probably his worst case scenario. It LOOKS like he has more speed then Perkins but I don’t trust that especially in highlights against Western Michigan. If he runs sub 4.4 I’ll be singing a bit of a different tune. I will say that even if his athleticism aligns with Charles it will also compare to CJ Spiller and Reggie Bush, two backs who had erratic, yet productive careers and he has not shown the pass catching accumen of either of those backs (nor Perkins for that matter).  

Nobody in this thread compared him to Charles, outside of frame.  But even if we did - the comp makes some sense.  He's certainly not as fast, but the two win in a lot of the same ways; their production was similar; their usage was similar; they wore the same number and rock the same hair style, even.  

But you didn't really answer my question.  What does Paul Perkins have to do with Ronald Jones?!  You bashed us for comparing a 4.4X guy to a 4.3X guy, then go on to compare him to a 4.5X guy.  And unlike Charles, I'm not seeing anything that makes me think Perkins when I watch Jones.  

(I'm thinking low 4.4X for Jones.  He's really fast, but was caught from behind by Fabian Moreau, who went on to run a 4.36 at the combine.)

 

[Concept Coop]

Ideally, we probably want both.  And I'm guessing we're going to get it this year in Barkley, and possibly Chubb.  

Chubb?  I'm not seeing a combine warrior there.  His lack of explosiveness is my biggest concern for him.  

 

[menobrown]

To put his youth in perspective, the hall of fame game is August 2nd. Ronald Jones turns 21 on August 3rd. 

Yes and another reason I think he will continue to fill out physically and why I'm not worried about his frame/size.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Yes and another reason I think he will continue to fill out physically and why I'm not worried about his frame/size.

Ronald Jones being so much younger definitely pushes me towards favoring him over Sony.

Jones - Aug 3, 1997

Michel - Feb 17, 1995

2.5 years younger is a big plus for RJII in dynasty leagues.

 

[Concept Coop]

He bulked up to 207 plus last year and had great results so I doubt he decided it would be a good idea to shed weight for the combine. In other words I got zero worries he is 200 pounds.

Now maybe you are like Bostonfred and just don't believe it until you see combine weigh-in. That is your call but to that I'd say if you want to look at it that way and not want to belive the player, school or multiple reports then why believe any player's height/weight until combine measurements? Why believe Barkley is 230 and not 215 if we are not going to believe player, school or multiple reports?

Do you have those reports? 

I think the point is that we're not going to believe a listed weight that doesn't match the eye test.  I have no reason to question Barkley's listed weight, as it matches what I see.  Ronald Jones weighing 210ish doesn't match what I see.  I could certainly be wrong, but I want to him see weight in at 207+ and perform at the combine before I believe it.  

 

[bostonfred]

Chubb?  I'm not seeing a combine warrior there.  His lack of explosiveness is my biggest concern for him.  

I think the consensus seems to be building around Michel, Chubb and Jones for picks 3 to 5, although there's certainly other guys in the conversation.

Chubb seems to be the 5th pig at the trough, and some people would take the receivers over him or other sleeper backs because of his supposed lack of explosiveness. That's why the combine is so important for him.  Chubb's running back skills didn't degrade, and while he didn't seem to recover to his original form after his injury, he will get a chance to work with NFL strength and conditioning coaches, so if he shows good raw athleticism at the combine, his stock could go way up. 

Then there's his teammate, who seems to have risen to 1.3 recently. Michel doesn't have as much on film and wasn't a full time starter so this combine is really important for him too. I've heard people estimating him at sub 4.4 speed, which would obviously make him  more interesting, but if he runs a 4.5x, he could tumble way past 1.5. 

And lastly there's Jones, who has the most concrete info. If he's big and slow or skinny and fast it will hurt him. I don't care if dynasty owners think he can carry there load, it's much more important that NFL coaches think he can, and weighing in at 210 plus with good speed and agility numbers would give him a much better chance of landing with a team that wants to feature him.  But if he puts on the weight and can't perform, or if he performs well but at a smaller size, NFL coaches may view him as a guy better suited to the third down/CoP role. So in that sense the combine is enormous for him to show he can move well with a few more pounds on his frame. Because the most important hurdle for Jones isn't just " is he good", but "how will he get used".

I really believe all 3 of these guys could drop out of the top 5 by draft day if they have a poor combine, and I wouldn't be shocked to see any of them move as high as 1.2.

 

[menobrown]

Do you have those reports? 

I think the point is that we're not going to believe a listed weight that doesn't match the eye test. 

Why would I bother?

 

[Concept Coop]

Why would I bother?

I'm just not seeing where the 207 number is coming from.  This article says Jones added 10 pounds this past off-season, at which point USC listed him at 200 (previously 195).  https://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/31/uscs-ronald-jones-with-regrown-dreadlocks-eyes-bigger-workload/

My "ronald jones weight 207 pounds" Google search is coming up empty.  

If anyone can point me to the reports, I'd like to see them and would appreciate it.  TIA. 

 

[bostonfred]

I'm just not seeing where the 207 number is coming from.  This article says Jones added 10 pounds this past off-season, at which point USC listed him at 200 (previously 195).  https://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/31/uscs-ronald-jones-with-regrown-dreadlocks-eyes-bigger-workload/

My "ronald jones weight 207 pounds" Google search is coming up empty.  

If anyone can point me to the reports, I'd like to see them and would appreciate it.  TIA. 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-usc-football-20170731-story.html

205

 

[fruity pebbles]

Put me in the camp of those waiting to see Jones’ weight/speed ratio. He looks very lanky to me. I can’t remember a RB with his build that had a lot of success in the NFL unless they were elite speed guys. The tape doesn’t show elite speed to me.

 

[menobrown]

I'm just not seeing where the 207 number is coming from.  This article says Jones added 10 pounds this past off-season, at which point USC listed him at 200 (previously 195).  https://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/31/uscs-ronald-jones-with-regrown-dreadlocks-eyes-bigger-workload/

My "ronald jones weight 207 pounds" Google search is coming up empty.  

If anyone can point me to the reports, I'd like to see them and would appreciate it.  TIA. 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-ronald-jones-20171106-story.html

http://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-football-20170822-story.html

That was the same writer in both of those articles but wrote a few months apart. I saw more but would have to look up where I saw them.

Officially he is listed at 200 by USC entering the season, was listed as 195 in 2016. If you think the 195 was accurate, and I do but to each their own, I could probably locate 100 articles that reference him gaining 10-15 pounds(usually 10, 15 is more rare).

 

[tkrull]

Doesn’t Somy’s age worry anyone? I think where he lands is more important than Jones. If both land in RBBC hell or behind an established starter, by the time that clears out the window for Sony is only a few years before he starts receiving AARP offers.

I think RB useful years is related more to carries than number of birthdays.  Doesn't he have relatively low college milage?

ETA:. I get the age/trade-value thing.

 

[Zyphros]

I really believe all 3 of these guys could drop out of the top 5 by draft day if they have a poor combine, and I wouldn't be shocked to see any of them move as high as 1.2.

Purely from a talent perspective, combine or not, there are at best 4 guys (Ridley, Kirk, Penny, Freeman) that I could see pushing their way into the top5 in a few drafts, while Chubb, RoJo, Michel slip out.  It seems very unlikely that 1. they bomb the combine and 2. Slip out of those top5 picks.  Even if they suck it up at the combine, lots of guys will still have those top5 up there.  Just like people had Dalvin Cook that high despite his horrific combine. 

I highly doubt we see anyone but those 5 RB's going 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in 90% of rookie drafts.  I can't imagine anyone else to creep into that discussion other than the 4 I mentioned and even that's an extreme long shot.  It will be Barkley, Chubb, Guice, Jones, Michel, in some order in most drafts.  

 

[bostonfred]

Purely from a talent perspective, combine or not, there are at best 4 guys (Ridley, Kirk, Penny, Freeman) that I could see pushing their way into the top5 in a few drafts, while Chubb, RoJo, Michel slip out.  It seems very unlikely that 1. they bomb the combine and 2. Slip out of those top5 picks.  Even if they suck it up at the combine, lots of guys will still have those top5 up there.  Just like people had Dalvin Cook that high despite his horrific combine. 

I highly doubt we see anyone but those 5 RB's going 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in 90% of rookie drafts.  I can't imagine anyone else to creep into that discussion other than the 4 I mentioned and even that's an extreme long shot.  It will be Barkley, Chubb, Guice, Jones, Michel, in some order in most drafts.  

Corey Davis was not consensus top 5 this time last year. Mixon shot up the charts a good bit too if i remember correctly. 

This year, very little has actually changed in the last two months except the bowl games, film watchers watching more film and mockers mocking more mocks. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/7h535o/rookie_rdynastyff_consensus_community_mock_as_of/.compact

Notable movers

1.3 Courtland Sutton

1.8 Ronald Jones

2.5 Sony Michel

Michel in particular had two monster bowl performances and has jumped up from second round sleeper to that guy I saw in the national championship and plan to take 1.3. 

A lot can still change.  Sutton, kerryon, Washington, or one of the countless guys named Josh could all jump up in value with a good combine, early NFL draft position, good landing spot, etc.  And for leagues that draft in August, there could be even more movement.

I've got a side bet with a league mate that 5 rbs will go off the board before 3 wrs in our draft. I made the bet weeks ago. I'm on board with what you're saying. But things do change.

 

[Bojang0301]

I would not draft a WR that high with this crop of RB’s. That’s insanity. Makes me want to collect 2nd round picks though. All it takes is a few WR’s, a QB and a TE to go off the board before you’re sitting there in the 2nd staring down at talent we haven’t seen in what feels like a decade at RB.

 

[menobrown]

I think the consensus seems to be building around Michel, Chubb and Jones for picks 3 to 5, although there's certainly other guys in the conversation.

I've never had Chubb ranked as a top 10 player, is for sure not among my top 5 RB's and at one point was barely making my top 10 RB list.  I try and keep an open mind on these things but I anticipate post-combine I'll rank him about where I did Perine last year, who post combine I rated as an second round dynasty pick.

I highly doubt we see anyone but those 5 RB's going 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in 90% of rookie drafts.  I can't imagine anyone else to creep into that discussion other than the 4 I mentioned and even that's an extreme long shot.  It will be Barkley, Chubb, Guice, Jones, Michel, in some order in most drafts.  

I can't agree with this in large part due to what I said in the reply regarding Chubb and also that I've had Kerryon Johnson ranked as top 5 RB since November, 5th but top 5 is top 5.

But that's just one man's opinion but I just can't discount the allure of immediacy to the fantasy community if a RB other then one from this group lands in a spot where immediate playing time looks to be in the cards. I say this all the time but this time of year when Bell came out it was hard to find him in anyone's top 5 lis(at this time of year and even after his combine), he was not even in some top 10 lists and I mean just RB's not players. After he hit a homerun landing spot he was usually RB1-RB4 in drafts.

Corey Davis was not consensus top 5 this time last year. Mixon shot up the charts a good bit too if i remember correctly. 

That's not how I remember it.

Davis seemed to be for almost everyone the top WR or in a two man comp with Mike Williams and at no point did I ever not have those two in my top 6 and since Davis had offseason surgery and never particpated in combine or workouts it was hard for him to elevate his stock other then getting drafted high.

Mixon was regarded as many, myself included, as the most talented RB in the class and only way he was not going to be a top 5 player was if NFL blackballed him. As is he went to a horrible landing spot and I still ranked him 4th.