Rookie DE/LB Team/Scheme/Position Summary (1 Viewer)

[Jene Bramel]

Great discussion here folks.

I'm with Construx - don't let Keiaho get too far from your sights in dynasty leagues. And I would strongly consider grabbing Omar Gaither in the later rounds this season. He has only Shawn Barber standing in the way of a weak side role in Philly. Depending on how things shake out with Howard, Wilkinson, and Hodge, he's got the inside track at remaining in my top ten dynasty rookie backers all summer long.

 

[Rozelle]

Don't sleep on Keiaho.

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AgreeI have he and Gaither at 11 and 12.

I like McGarigle as a sleeper...

Terna Nande is one to watch also... going to Tennessee has its good (he should get the coaching he needs) and bad (Bulluck) IMO, He will be a project much like Thomas Howard without the opportunity to play early.

 

[Rozelle]

WOW!

When ya start thinking about.. this is an unbelievable deep class!

 

[Weiner Dog]

5. DeMeco Ryans (HOU) - With Wong recovering from knee surgery, I fear Ryans will begin his NFL journey as a SLB (with Greenwood at WLB and Cowart at MLB). This will kill his value. However, Cowart will not play much longer and Wong should recover in time. Ryans could be an excellent "buy" around mid-season when his current owner grows tired of his 4-tackle afternoons/evenings.

You may be right, but... I figure Ryans at will, with a possible future at mike... remember... Greenwood played sam in Miami, moved to will when Seau was injured.

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Yup...and Greenwood also played SLB at Syracuse. However, Ryans' bread-and-butter is his ability to shed blockers. This, unfortunately, may lead him down the SLB path.Camp should be fun.

 

[WisWolvrns]

(Rotoworld) The Panthers hope third-round pick James Anderson will challenge for their weak-side linebacker position.

Impact: He'll join the mix with Na'il Diggs and Keith Adams. Anderson ran a 4.47 forty at the Combine and is said to have sideline-to-sideline range.

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From what I've read on Anderson he sounds more like a SLB. Has speed, good cover skills, poor instincts, often over pursues and not really a sure tackler.

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This was from March 30:Coach John Fox made it clear Wednesday that he expects Thomas Davis to start at weak-side linebacker this season.

Impact: The team may still address the linebacker position in the draft, but probably on the strong-side. Davis is likely to be undervalued in IDP leagues because of his quiet rookie season.

I can't see them waivering to much from that if he's that confident.

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March 30th is eons ago in NFL time... Post draft, depending on what players fall to teams, lineups can switch around... Though I agree Davis is leaning toward LB instead of SS, but crazier things have happened before in the NFL. (ie. David Thornton switching to SLB after his stud WLB season?!)

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Great discussion here folks.

I'm with Construx - don't let Keiaho get too far from your sights in dynasty leagues.  And I would strongly consider grabbing Omar Gaither in the later rounds this season.  He has only Shawn Barber standing in the way of a weak side role in Philly.  Depending on how things shake out with Howard, Wilkinson, and Hodge, he's got the inside track at remaining in my top ten dynasty rookie backers all summer long.

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Yep, if you had asked me before the draft what team best utilizes undersized, high motor guys, I would have said the Colts.

 

[Plundun]

And I would strongly consider grabbing Omar Gaither in the later rounds this season.  He has only Shawn Barber standing in the way of a weak side role in Philly.

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Matt McCoy will make this at least a three-way battle. I think Gocong will move to LB as well.

 

[Jene Bramel]

And I would strongly consider grabbing Omar Gaither in the later rounds this season.  He has only Shawn Barber standing in the way of a weak side role in Philly.

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Matt McCoy will make this at least a three-way battle. I think Gocong will move to LB as well.
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Gocong is moving to linebacker. But his skill set is not suited for full time WLB duty. The Eagles were very disappointed in McCoy last season, but yes, he's in the mix as well.

 

[redman]

6. Rocky McIntosh (WAS) - I think WAS panicked and pick Rocky early.  However, this was perfect for McIntosh's value.  Not many (...if any) IDPers would have guessed Rocky could have cracked a Top-6 dynasty ranking.

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Not a panic pick. This coaching staff likes to target specific players who they think fit their scheme particularly well, and go after them. It's a perfectly fair argument to make that they gave up too much in value given the market value of the pick and demand for the player, but I assure you it's not a panic pick. They liked the fact that he is an all-around good, 3-down LB. I agree that he could be a very good fantasy player in this scheme and there's nobody on the roster that should keep him out of the lineup for very long. I say this despite Gregg Williams' reluctance to use rookies as starters in his scheme - even Sean Taylor sat for the first 6 weeks or so of his rookie season.

Last year, the Will LB's for the 'Skins put up the following numbers in very much of an underperforming year for that position:

Arrington: 39 tackles; 8 assts; 0 sacks; 0 FF's; 0 FR's; 0 INT's, 1 Pass Def

Holdman: 16 tackles; 7 assts; 0 sacks; 0 FF's; 1 FR's; 0 INT's, 0 Pass Def

Clemons: 8 tackles; 1 assts; 2 sacks; 1 FF's; 0 FR's; 0 INT's, 1 Pass Def

TOTAL: 63 tackles; 16 assts; 2 sacks; 1 FF's; 1 FR's; 0 INT's, 2 Pass Def

Holdman is old and washed up and is a warm body only. Arrington's of course gone to the Giants. Clemons is developing pretty well but was used almost exclusively as a third down pass rusher.

This job is ripe for McIntosh to grab it and hold it for years to come, and he certainly sounds smart enough to pick up the system quickly.

 

[Imedos]

Here's a couple of blurbs on Hawk:

For now, second-year veteran Roy Manning is No. 1 on the Green Bay Packers' depth at strong-side linebacker, according to linebackers coach Winston Moss. The Packers also will start out with A.J. Hawk playing on the weak side and Nick Barnett remaining in the middle.

Obviously, the Packers believe A.J. Hawk can be a big-play linebacker or they wouldn't have drafted him No. 1. A linebacker can make plays in the running game by striking with force and causing fumbles, or by taking on blockers and chasing backs down for tackles for losses. And it was partly Hawk's toughness and explsoiveness that sold Ted Thompson on drafting him.

But defensive coordinator Bob Sanders said he thought Hawk also had the potential to make plays as a blitzer. "He looks like he has the speed, the toughness, the athleticism to be a good blitzer," said Sanders. There's less reason to think that Hawk will make plays in coverage. Linebackers coach Winston Moss said that probably will be the toughest transition for Hawk. He has little experience in man-to-man coverage.

http://www.jsonline.com/blog/?id=130

 

[Weiner Dog]

6. Rocky McIntosh (WAS) - I think WAS panicked and pick Rocky early.  However, this was perfect for McIntosh's value.  Not many (...if any) IDPers would have guessed Rocky could have cracked a Top-6 dynasty ranking.

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Not a panic pick.

I disagree 100%. When the D Ryans and D Jackson came off the board at #33 and #34, the Redskins crapped themselves and overpaid handsomely for the #34 pick. Sure...an argument could be made that Rocky would have not fallen to the Skins original 2nd-rounder (#53), but many more arguments could made for the contrary.

Look...I don't doubt Rocky's abilities to play football. He's an athlete (albeit, an injury athlete). He could very well be a starter for WAS this year. I just don't think Rocky was worth the #53, #189 and 2nd-round pick next year. As a result, I think...wait...I know the Skins panicked.

 

[redman]

6. Rocky McIntosh (WAS) - I think WAS panicked and pick Rocky early.  However, this was perfect for McIntosh's value.  Not many (...if any) IDPers would have guessed Rocky could have cracked a Top-6 dynasty ranking.

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Not a panic pick.

I disagree 100%. When the D Ryans and D Jackson came off the board at #33 and #34, the Redskins crapped themselves and overpaid handsomely for the #34 pick. Sure...an argument could be made that Rocky would have not fallen to the Skins original 2nd-rounder (#53), but many more arguments could made for the contrary.

Look...I don't doubt Rocky's abilities to play football. He's an athlete (albeit, an injury athlete). He could very well be a starter for WAS this year. I just don't think Rocky was worth the #53, #189 and 2nd-round pick next year. As a result, I think...wait...I know the Skins panicked.

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I note that you deleted the explanation I gave for the team's drafting/personnel philosophy from the quoted portion above and chose to respond only to the portion of my post that seemed to be something you could argue against.

 

[dgreen]

6. Rocky McIntosh (WAS) - I think WAS panicked and pick Rocky early.  However, this was perfect for McIntosh's value.  Not many (...if any) IDPers would have guessed Rocky could have cracked a Top-6 dynasty ranking.

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Not a panic pick.

I disagree 100%. When the D Ryans and D Jackson came off the board at #33 and #34, the Redskins crapped themselves and overpaid handsomely for the #34 pick. Sure...an argument could be made that Rocky would have not fallen to the Skins original 2nd-rounder (#53), but many more arguments could made for the contrary.

Look...I don't doubt Rocky's abilities to play football. He's an athlete (albeit, an injury athlete). He could very well be a starter for WAS this year. I just don't think Rocky was worth the #53, #189 and 2nd-round pick next year. As a result, I think...wait...I know the Skins panicked.

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They had been in contact with teams in that range (35-40) before the draft. It wasn't a panic pick. It was a move, depending on how the draft progressed, they planned to make in advance. Pick 35 just happened to be a team that had agreed to make a deal with them before the draft. When Rocky was available at 35, they completed the deal that had been discussed in advance.As for whether they overpaid, only time will tell. But, the draft value chart shows they did not overpay.

 

[Weiner Dog]

6. Rocky McIntosh (WAS) - I think WAS panicked and pick Rocky early.  However, this was perfect for McIntosh's value.  Not many (...if any) IDPers would have guessed Rocky could have cracked a Top-6 dynasty ranking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a panic pick.

I disagree 100%. When the D Ryans and D Jackson came off the board at #33 and #34, the Redskins crapped themselves and overpaid handsomely for the #34 pick. Sure...an argument could be made that Rocky would have not fallen to the Skins original 2nd-rounder (#53), but many more arguments could made for the contrary.

Look...I don't doubt Rocky's abilities to play football. He's an athlete (albeit, an injury athlete). He could very well be a starter for WAS this year. I just don't think Rocky was worth the #53, #189 and 2nd-round pick next year. As a result, I think...wait...I know the Skins panicked.

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They had been in contact with teams in that range (35-40) before the draft. It wasn't a panic pick. It was a move, depending on how the draft progressed, they planned to make in advance. Pick 35 just happened to be a team that had agreed to make a deal with them before the draft. When Rocky was available at 35, they completed the deal that had been discussed in advance.As for whether they overpaid, only time will tell. But, the draft value chart shows they did not overpay.

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OK...don't take my word for it. Would you be willing to believe the words of a man named Joe Gibbs?? He chose to use the politically-correct choice of words "spurred on" in place of "panicked".link:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/2006...10835-7003r.htm

"We had a gameplan ready for 53, but it didn't include Rocky," Gibbs said. "We were very much wanting to do something ... so we worked real hard on the phone. Obviously, the spot on our team where everybody would've said we were the thinnest was linebacker. We kind of felt there was a group of linebackers and it really dropped off. Several of the linebackers were fairly close in grades and as soon as they started going, that spurred you on."

NO - The trade was not negotiated before the draft.

YES - Even if you use the draft-pick value chart, you will see the Skins overpaid by a minimum of 100 pts (assuming their 2nd is the last pick in the draft) to a maximum of 400 pts (assuming their 2nd is the first pick in the draft).

 

[dgreen]

NO - The trade was not negotiated before the draft.

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I heard Gibbs, or someone else, say they knew, by way of earlier conversation, which teams would be willing to trade down to 53. They did plenty of work beforehand with a pick in the 35 range in mind.

 

[redman]

6. Rocky McIntosh (WAS) - I think WAS panicked and pick Rocky early.  However, this was perfect for McIntosh's value.  Not many (...if any) IDPers would have guessed Rocky could have cracked a Top-6 dynasty ranking.

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Not a panic pick.

I disagree 100%. When the D Ryans and D Jackson came off the board at #33 and #34, the Redskins crapped themselves and overpaid handsomely for the #34 pick. Sure...an argument could be made that Rocky would have not fallen to the Skins original 2nd-rounder (#53), but many more arguments could made for the contrary.

Look...I don't doubt Rocky's abilities to play football. He's an athlete (albeit, an injury athlete). He could very well be a starter for WAS this year. I just don't think Rocky was worth the #53, #189 and 2nd-round pick next year. As a result, I think...wait...I know the Skins panicked.

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They had been in contact with teams in that range (35-40) before the draft. It wasn't a panic pick. It was a move, depending on how the draft progressed, they planned to make in advance. Pick 35 just happened to be a team that had agreed to make a deal with them before the draft. When Rocky was available at 35, they completed the deal that had been discussed in advance.As for whether they overpaid, only time will tell. But, the draft value chart shows they did not overpay.

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OK...don't take my word for it. Would you be willing to believe the words of a man named Joe Gibbs?? He chose to use the politically-correct choice of words "spurred on" in place of "panicked".link:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/2006...10835-7003r.htm

"We had a gameplan ready for 53, but it didn't include Rocky," Gibbs said. "We were very much wanting to do something ... so we worked real hard on the phone. Obviously, the spot on our team where everybody would've said we were the thinnest was linebacker. We kind of felt there was a group of linebackers and it really dropped off. Several of the linebackers were fairly close in grades and as soon as they started going, that spurred you on."

NO - The trade was not negotiated before the draft.

YES - Even if you use the draft-pick value chart, you will see the Skins overpaid by a minimum of 100 pts (assuming their 2nd is the last pick in the draft) to a maximum of 400 pts (assuming their 2nd is the first pick in the draft).

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How was that panic?I explained above that their draft strategy, this year in particular, was to target a specific player or player at the OLB position who was in the top tier of talent. McIntosh fit that and may have been who they wanted there all along - you'll note that nobody is saying that McIntosh was a bad pick at the spot he was selected. That doesn't support your "panic" theory.

I said above it was perfectly fair to discuss how they gave up too much to get him. Fair enough, but the team and the coaching staff don't care about that as long as they get their guy. They have a level of confidence and job security that allows them to do that without fear of any criticism. They wanted McIntosh and they got him. While unconventional, this approach does not amount to panic.

Anyway, all you have to do is understand Joe Gibbs to realize it's not panic. The guy is one of the most obsessive planners out there. This is most assuredly a scenario that they plotted out far in advance of the draft.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Kirk Morrison is playing WLB in eary camp. This most likely signals Thomas Howard ultimate move to SLB.

link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2436623

Raiders add depth at linebacker, sign Thomas

By Len Pasquarelli

ESPN.com

Demonstrating their typical interest in former first-round draft choices whose careers might still be salvaged, the Oakland Raiders have signed free agent linebacker Robert Thomas, the top pick of the St. Louis Rams in the 2002 draft.

A four-year veteran whose resume includes 41 starts, Thomas was released last week by Green Bay after a draft in which the Packers selected linebackers A.J. Hawk in the first round and Abdul Hodge in the third stanza. Thomas was acquired by the Packers from the Rams in a September 2005 trade.

In 52 career appearances, Thomas has registered 272 tackles, two sacks, one interception, seven passes defensed, two forced fumbles and one recovery. He started in nine of 10 appearances for Green Bay last season, but his campaign was cut short by a quadriceps injury that sidelined him for six of the last seven games and subsequently forced him onto the injured reserve list.

Despite being in the league for four seasons, Thomas is only 25 years old, and the former UCLA standout has been a steady defender when healthy. Thomas has started at both the strongside and weakside spots in the past and his versatility could be valuable to a Raiders team seeking depth and experience.

Second-year veteran Kirk Morrison, a standout during his rookie season in which he started 15 games and posted 116 tackles, seems to have a lock on the weakside position. But in the team's weekend mini-camp, the strongside position was manned by Sam Williams, who missed all of 2005 while rehabilitating from surgery for a torn anterior cruciate ligament, and who has made just 10 appearances in his first three years in the league because of injuries.

Oakland did draft linebacker Thomas Howard of Texas-El Paso in the second round. The Raiders chose Southern California safety Darnell Bing in the fourth round and may move him to linebacker. Thomas, a very quick linebacker who plays bigger than his size, could be a candidate to start and at worst provides an experienced backup who can play multiple positions.

His best season was in 2003 when, despite starting just 11 games, Thomas recorded 102 tackles and a pair of sacks. One notable negative is that, because of injuries, Thomas has not played a full 16-game season since his 2002 rookie campaign.

The Raiders have also signed free agent tailback Rod Smart, who gained famed by wearing "He Hate Me" across the back of his uniform jersey while playing in the short-lived XFL. Smart, 29, has played five years in the NFL, the last four seasons with the Carolina Panthers, and has been a special teams standout.

Smart has appeared in 53 games. He has 78 kickoff returns for an average of 22.2 yards and a touchdown, but his bigger contributions have come on coverage units, where he has 53 career tackles.

Contract details for the deals signed by Thomas and Smart were not yet available.

Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com.

 

[cr8f]

didn't barnett play SLB in his final 2 seasons at Oregon and when he was drafted I  thought that they were initially going to use him at SLB before deciding on him at MLB

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Ask Sarge.

 

[Beaumont]

didn't barnett play SLB in his final 2 seasons at Oregon and when he was drafted I  thought that they were initially going to use him at SLB before deciding on him at MLB

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Ask Sarge.
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[msommer]

Any idea of whether McCune has any value (longer term) - he was drafted, cut, signed to the practice squad, signed again and had some spot duty. Ourlads lists him as back up to Marcus Washington at SLB but IIRC he was drafted as MLB?

 

[jgb95]

I'm wondering the same thing.

Last year I saw two sites that had McCune listed as the top MLB.

 

[Beaumont]

I'm wondering the same thing.

Last year I saw two sites that had McCune listed as the top MLB.

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Obviously in retrospect that is not true ... it seems that Lemar Marshall is entrenched as the playcaller and 3-down MLB in Wash ...

 

[The Sandman]

Just another reason not to draft IDP players high in drafts. Vilma moving to the 3-4 could have competition for the middle of the field for tackles now. Barnett could be the new strong side LB in Green bay, and Demorrio Williams a stud just a year ago could find his way to nickel LB.

With the amount of coaching changes every yr, and teams moving from 4-3 to 3-4, and drafting of other players and moving current players around its a gamble to build around a IDP player you took too high, because if barnett moves outside, his value just plummeted.

 

[redman]

Any idea of whether McCune has any value (longer term) - he was drafted, cut, signed to the practice squad, signed again and had some spot duty. Ourlads lists him as back up to Marcus Washington at SLB but IIRC he was drafted as MLB?

There's not been a lot of discussion about this, but I've noticed this too. McCune by all accounts is working his tail off and the coaches love his contribution on special teams, which virtually guarantees him a roster spot. I still can't identify a better MLB than him on the roster aside from Marshall, and of course Marshall is a converted WLB. The problem is that the 'Skins drafted McIntosh who figures to play at WLB relatively quickly given his aptitude and skills, which means that Marshall would have more reason to remain at MLB. Marcus Washington is entrenched at SLB as he should be. All I can say is watch the way this plays out. One injury could change everything, and I could easily envision Marshall going down to injury and not getting his job back if McCune showed a lot in replacement of him. Marshall, while a hard worker, is merely adequate IMHO in the middle. He makes the plays he should make, but he does nothing remarkable on top of that.