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Rookie Evaluation (1 Viewer)

Matt Waldman

Footballguy
This is the period of time where I really get heavy into film study for the Rookie Scouting Portfolio.

Over the weekend I have been watching a lot of games around the clock and will continue to do so for the rest of this week while I have some vacation time. Occasionally, I see some plays where I feel like sharing what I see that is a nuance of the game that the casual observe might miss.

Right now I'm taking a quick break from the Oregon State-Stanford game from 10/10/09 where I'm watching several players, one them is QB Sean Canfield. I'll say that overall, I have a pretty good impression of Canfield and look forward to evaluating more of his games over the next few months. However, he provides an example of the kind of nuance of the game I just described:

On a 2nd and 5 with 1:38 in the half, Oregon State is at the Stanford 29 yard-line. The offensive lines up in a two-TE, single back set with WR James Rodgers split left. Rodgers motions towards the hash and runs a skinny post to the end zone. Canfield delivers a pass that the safety comes over the top to defend, nearly intercepting the football. The commentators say Canfield under-threw the pass.

To the casual observer, this might be an example of Canfield lacking arm strength to complete an NFL quality route. The pass lacked the zip and distance on first blush. However, when you replay what happened there is an explanation for Canfield's poor throw that is extremely coachable and has nothing to do with his arm strength.

The real issue was his footwork. When Canfield finished his drop, he should have been in a position to throw as soon as his back foot hit the ground on the last step of the drop.

However, he didn't have his body in position to achieve this because he didn't make an effective drop in terms of his body position and steps. When his back foot hit the ground on the final step of the drop, Canfield had to shuffle his back foot just a bit before he delivered the ball. This shuffle and bounce to get in position after the throw forced him to deliver the ball out of rhythm.

The skinny post is a very precise route with a tight window for success. The delay allowed the safety to come over the top and nearly pick off the pass.

Another issue with this poor drop is that Canfield never got his feet in the right position and they were spread too far apart. This prevented Canfield from using his hips correctly to generate velocity on his pass. Earlier in the game Canfield demonstrated strong zip, timing, and accuracy on a deep out thrown from the opposite hash landing over Rodgers inside shoulder just inside the sideline. So the issue isn't his arm strength, because this pass covered about the same distance. The real issue was his footwork that inhibited his timing, distance, and velocity on this one throw. Interestingly enough, if the safety hadn't come over the top, the ball would have arrived over the WRs inside shoulder out of reach of the trailing CB, so to say that the ball was under thrown might not be that accurate. It was more a matter being just a bit earlier with the release that would have made the real difference.

Footwork is one of the most correctable issues a coach can address for a quarterback. If you see anyone say Canfield lacks arm strength, they are missing the details.

 
Here's some basic stuff I've noticed about players I've seen - some who will be in the 2010 RSP and others who have another year or two.

Ryan Mathews - His ability to anticipate a crease is so impressive. His mix of power, speed, and vision makes him one of my early faves at the RB position.

Jacory Harris - Although he's not a prospect yet, the Miami QB shows a lot of potential as a sophomore. The fact Mark Whipple (Roethlisberger and McNabb's QB coach early in their careers) is his QB coach is a good sign, too. His poise and leadership is so good for a young player.

RB Javarris James - I'm not impressed with James overall. I love to tout players with smarts and technique over athleticism, but there has to be a baseline of athleticism that separates you from being a collegian and a potential pro. I think James lacks that upper body strength, burst, and long speed to be more than a depth chart RB (and pretty deep on the depth chart).

RB Craig Cooper - In contrast, Cooper looks like a player I think will grow into a contributor. It's hard for me to believe he's 6-1, 205-210 as I've seen his weight listed. I think he could fill into that kind of weight, maybe 220 in a couple of years, and not lose his quickness. He has more wiggle than James and I think he has more of a chance.

RB DeMarco Murray - My first pass at Murray left me impressed despite the fact I was watching a game where he was just getting back into the thick of it against a good Miami run defense. What impressed me was his ability to get yardage after contact (with Miami constantly challenging him behind the line of scrimmage) and his maturity not to try to cut back and just take what he could get. I also saw a flash of recklessness to his running style in terms of throwing his body around that I think I will see in future games.

Boise State WR (can't remember his first name and I'm in a hurry) Pettis - Titus Young seems to be the guy a lot of people like due to his speed, but Pettis is supposedly the fastest player on the team and his hands are top-notch. Maybe not quite as impressive as Austin Collie last year, but when you can make a one-handed grab of the end of the ball in tight coverage, that's pretty darn good. It wasn't the only impressive catch I saw from him.

Damaryius Thomas WR Ga. Tech - Looks like Calvin Johnson, plays at the same school where Johnson came from, but he's not Megatron. He will be an enticing project, but his routes are one-dimensional and need refinement and he doesn't catch the ball in traffic as well as CJ - at least what I've seen thus far. I was looking forward to watching him and my first impression was a little more disappointing than I expected.

WR Eric Decker Minnesota: Tough, agile, great hands, and decent speed. His speed will dictate how far he can go in the NFL. Not sure I'll get to see him in situations where he runs more than crosses, streaks, and outs because his QB isn't that good, but he's intriguing.

Jahvid Best: Really surprised me that he was a patient runner. Some might say he won't pay to his speed between the tackles, but it's really more maturity as a runner.

More as I have time...

 
Woohoo! Love finishing a championship season on Monday and starting scouting for next year on Tuesday, which I always do with Matt and the RSP.

How bout that Stanford RB?

 
Woohoo! Love finishing a championship season on Monday and starting scouting for next year on Tuesday, which I always do with Matt and the RSP.How bout that Stanford RB?
Watching him now. I gave some impressions of him in my Gut Check column about a month ago. I think he's more than an Alstott type of back. The question is whether he has enough to be more of a Jamal Lewis style runner. My third game I'll watch of his within the next month will be against USC and I think that will help confirm a few things. I will tell you that I just watched Gerhart get yardage on pitch plays where the Oregon St. defense was consistently spilling to the outside and getting behind the line of scrimmage. Gehart has the quickness to still meet them at the corner and get positive yardage. I just watched him make a play that Alstott, Tommy Vardell, or any big, slow, 'tweener people want to compare him to would never have the agility or burst to make on an 2-point conversion in the 4th QTR.
 
Who do you like best at WR after Dez Bryant?

It seems like there's a host of contenders there and no clear consensus. I've seen Mardy Gilyard, Demaryius Thomas, Damian Williams, Arrelious Benn, Jeremy Williams, Eric Decker, Dezmon Briscoe, and various other names floated as potential candidates for the WR2 spot.

 
The guy I'm watching tomorrow who I've only watched casually thus far who I think is a strong candidate is Damian Williams....

 
Here's some basic stuff I've noticed about players I've seen - some who will be in the 2010 RSP and others who have another year or two.

Damaryius Thomas WR Ga. Tech - Looks like Calvin Johnson, plays at the same school where Johnson came from, but he's not Megatron. He will be an enticing project, but his routes are one-dimensional and need refinement and he doesn't catch the ball in traffic as well as CJ - at least what I've seen thus far. I was looking forward to watching him and my first impression was a little more disappointing than I expected.
I really like this guy, but I agree with your assessment. He isn't asked to run much more than a fly, although maybe he'd learn other routes easily, hard to tell. I think he's OK in traffic, but certainly not as good as Johnson, although that's a tough compare. The other thing I don't like is that he seems to lose concentration at times. It really will depend where he goes and how coachable he is and how much desire he has to succeed at the next level.
 
Who do you like best at WR after Dez Bryant?It seems like there's a host of contenders there and no clear consensus. I've seen Mardy Gilyard, Demaryius Thomas, Damian Williams, Arrelious Benn, Jeremy Williams, Eric Decker, Dezmon Briscoe, and various other names floated as potential candidates for the WR2 spot.
Right now I am thinking Danario Alexander over all those guys. Here is a guy that was ahead of Maclin until he got hurt. Some will probably be drafted before him but he is better.Tomorrow 3:30 ESPN Missouri vs Navy.
 
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Who do you like best at WR after Dez Bryant?It seems like there's a host of contenders there and no clear consensus. I've seen Mardy Gilyard, Demaryius Thomas, Damian Williams, Arrelious Benn, Jeremy Williams, Eric Decker, Dezmon Briscoe, and various other names floated as potential candidates for the WR2 spot.
Right now I am thinking Danario Alexander over all those guys. Here is a guy that was ahead of Maclin until he got hurt. Some will probably be drafted before him but he is better.Tomorrow 3:30 ESPN Missouri vs Navy.
He has definitely stepped up his game this year - however, I think I'm going to check him out versus the Blackshirts of Nebraska. The best athletes and football players for the Midshipmen may very well be on a carrier somewhere in the Persian Gulf.Construx...Vincent Jackson was a raw player, so Thomas certainly can make it. I agree he may be a guy who you want to see where he winds up first, if you can.
 
I watched Wisconsin beat Miami soundly yesterday and here are my thoughts on these two:

Jacory Harris - I was not impressed. It was just one game but he regularly made bad passes. He made two nice down field throws but I saw him miss a lot more than he threw well.

RB Javarris James - I agree with you about James. He doesn't have the strong, lower body and compact frame that most NFL pros have.

I also watched John Clay for WI, who was the Big Ten rushing leader. I wanted to like him but he looks like a mix between Brandon Jacobs (his ceiling) and Ron Dayne (his floor). Not sure which he is, but his top end speed didn't impress (he had one long run that a quicker, more agile back would have gotten into the end zone) and he seems like one of those big college backs who does great with a big hole but not sure he can break or avoid tackles if there isn't much of a hole.

 
Good teaser, Wildman.How much have you watched Dan LeFevour? I think he will be #3 or #4 QB off the board.
LeFevour is going to be down in Orlando at the Shrine Game. I've been touting him since his sophomore season, and I believe he could end up being the best QB in this draft class. He's likely a 2nd round pick right now, but his draft stock could rise with a good performance at the Shrine and the Combine.He'll be one of the first players I interview after practice!
 
I watched Wisconsin beat Miami soundly yesterday and here are my thoughts on these two:Jacory Harris - I was not impressed. It was just one game but he regularly made bad passes. He made two nice down field throws but I saw him miss a lot more than he threw well.RB Javarris James - I agree with you about James. He doesn't have the strong, lower body and compact frame that most NFL pros have. I also watched John Clay for WI, who was the Big Ten rushing leader. I wanted to like him but he looks like a mix between Brandon Jacobs (his ceiling) and Ron Dayne (his floor). Not sure which he is, but his top end speed didn't impress (he had one long run that a quicker, more agile back would have gotten into the end zone) and he seems like one of those big college backs who does great with a big hole but not sure he can break or avoid tackles if there isn't much of a hole.
I agree with you about Clay from the times I saw him last year. Wisconsin traditionally has a great o-line and blocking scheme that they execute well. He actually looked more athletic as a freshman...As for Harris, give him a couple of years - he's just a sophomore - however, he does make some really bad passes at times. What I like though is he showed a lot this season that ability to erase that from his memory and make good plays. As he gets better and making reads I think he'll develop.
 
Good teaser, Wildman.How much have you watched Dan LeFevour? I think he will be #3 or #4 QB off the board.
LeFevour is going to be down in Orlando at the Shrine Game. I've been touting him since his sophomore season, and I believe he could end up being the best QB in this draft class. He's likely a 2nd round pick right now, but his draft stock could rise with a good performance at the Shrine and the Combine.He'll be one of the first players I interview after practice!
Excellent...looking forward to hearing it. I have a few games of his I plan to watch of his from this year, but I also want to check out his game versus Georgia as a junior.
 
Woohoo! Love finishing a championship season on Monday and starting scouting for next year on Tuesday, which I always do with Matt and the RSP.How bout that Stanford RB?
I'll throw in a quick :popcorn: on Gerhart here...got to interview him when he was in NYC for the Heisman presentation, good kid, humble, and told me he patterned his game after Michael Turner. His dad's favorite player was Earl Campbell. :thumbdown:The Vardell comparisons are wrong. Gerhart runs like a tailback and is very light on his feet. In fact, I told him that he reminds me of Jerome Bettis. He's hard to bring down when he gets a head of steam, and can spin/juke around defenders. It's rare that a big man has that type of footwork. He's not Alstott either in my opinion because he doesn't run as low as Alstott did. Mike Alstott was all power and determination. he gave you nothing to tackle except shoulders and knees. Gerhart is big and swift, but generates power from momentum. He runs a little upright for my taste, but I see him having a good (not great) pro career.
 
Good teaser, Wildman.How much have you watched Dan LeFevour? I think he will be #3 or #4 QB off the board.
LeFevour is going to be down in Orlando at the Shrine Game. I've been touting him since his sophomore season, and I believe he could end up being the best QB in this draft class. He's likely a 2nd round pick right now, but his draft stock could rise with a good performance at the Shrine and the Combine.He'll be one of the first players I interview after practice!
Excellent...looking forward to hearing it. I have a few games of his I plan to watch of his from this year, but I also want to check out his game versus Georgia as a junior.
His junior season was a let down, but he bounced back with a vengeance in his senior year.
 
Woohoo! Love finishing a championship season on Monday and starting scouting for next year on Tuesday, which I always do with Matt and the RSP.How bout that Stanford RB?
I'll throw in a quick :confused: on Gerhart here...got to interview him when he was in NYC for the Heisman presentation, good kid, humble, and told me he patterned his game after Michael Turner. His dad's favorite player was Earl Campbell. :goodposting:The Vardell comparisons are wrong. Gerhart runs like a tailback and is very light on his feet. In fact, I told him that he reminds me of Jerome Bettis. He's hard to bring down when he gets a head of steam, and can spin/juke around defenders. It's rare that a big man has that type of footwork. He's not Alstott either in my opinion because he doesn't run as low as Alstott did. Mike Alstott was all power and determination. he gave you nothing to tackle except shoulders and knees. Gerhart is big and swift, but generates power from momentum. He runs a little upright for my taste, but I see him having a good (not great) pro career.
The Vardell / Alstott comparisons to Gerhart are short -sighted to say the least... the player I see Gerhart resembling in college , who is sort of a enigma in the NFL, is Texan Chris Brown.Not that great of a compliment but Brown has shown flashes of the ability he displayd in Colorado.Brown has more top end speed , but Gerhert runs harder constitently.
 
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Who do you like best at WR after Dez Bryant?It seems like there's a host of contenders there and no clear consensus. I've seen Mardy Gilyard, Demaryius Thomas, Damian Williams, Arrelious Benn, Jeremy Williams, Eric Decker, Dezmon Briscoe, and various other names floated as potential candidates for the WR2 spot.
Right now I am thinking Danario Alexander over all those guys. Here is a guy that was ahead of Maclin until he got hurt. Some will probably be drafted before him but he is better.Tomorrow 3:30 ESPN Missouri vs Navy.
He has definitely stepped up his game this year - however, I think I'm going to check him out versus the Blackshirts of Nebraska. The best athletes and football players for the Midshipmen may very well be on a carrier somewhere in the Persian Gulf.Construx...Vincent Jackson was a raw player, so Thomas certainly can make it. I agree he may be a guy who you want to see where he winds up first, if you can.
Thanks and that's a good point. I think the interesting thing about him in Dynasty is that you'll probably need some patience. Everyone wants the next Moss or DeSean Jackson, but a lot of these guys, like Vincent Jackson, need a few years of seasoning.
 
Woohoo! Love finishing a championship season on Monday and starting scouting for next year on Tuesday, which I always do with Matt and the RSP.How bout that Stanford RB?
I'll throw in a quick :2cents: on Gerhart here...got to interview him when he was in NYC for the Heisman presentation, good kid, humble, and told me he patterned his game after Michael Turner. His dad's favorite player was Earl Campbell. :lmao:The Vardell comparisons are wrong. Gerhart runs like a tailback and is very light on his feet. In fact, I told him that he reminds me of Jerome Bettis. He's hard to bring down when he gets a head of steam, and can spin/juke around defenders. It's rare that a big man has that type of footwork. He's not Alstott either in my opinion because he doesn't run as low as Alstott did. Mike Alstott was all power and determination. he gave you nothing to tackle except shoulders and knees. Gerhart is big and swift, but generates power from momentum. He runs a little upright for my taste, but I see him having a good (not great) pro career.
The Vardell / Alstott comparisons to Gerhart are short -sighted to say the least... the player I see Gerhart resembling in college , who is sort of a enigma in the NFL, is Texan Chris Brown.Not that great of a compliment but Brown has shown flashes of the ability he displayd in Colorado.Brown has more top end speed , but Gerhert runs harder constitently.
:clap:Chris Brown is a great comparison. The swiftness, upright style, and footwork are all very similar.
 
Good stuff on Gerhart, Cecil and Wu-Banger. I don't know think Gerhart is as explosive a runner as Brown was early in his career, but he might be a better all-around player in terms of what he can do in short yardage, blocking, and pass receiving. In the right system, he could have a couple of big years.

Another good point about WRs and dynasty owners, Construx...

Watching Damien Williams now...a lot of good stuff from the Notre Dame game this year. There was a nice opportunity to see Williams engage and defeat press coverage in the red zone in the second quarter that you don't see very often in college. Kind of a nice thing about watching a Weis-coached team vs. a Carroll-coached team. Both employ a little more stuff you would see more often in the NFL than college.

 
To the casual observer, this might be an example of Canfield lacking arm strength to complete an NFL quality route. The pass lacked the zip and distance on first blush. However, when you replay what happened there is an explanation for Canfield's poor throw that is extremely coachable and has nothing to do with his arm strength. The real issue was his footwork. When Canfield finished his drop, he should have been in a position to throw as soon as his back foot hit the ground on the last step of the drop. However, he didn't have his body in position to achieve this because he didn't make an effective drop in terms of his body position and steps. When his back foot hit the ground on the final step of the drop, Canfield had to shuffle his back foot just a bit before he delivered the ball. This shuffle and bounce to get in position after the throw forced him to deliver the ball out of rhythm. Footwork is one of the most correctable issues a coach can address for a quarterback. If you see anyone say Canfield lacks arm strength, they are missing the details.
Hey Matt, great stuff. Regarding the above that I took from your initial post, any recent QBs who came out with these issues and corrected them in the NFL? Seems like there are a lot of players who come into the league with questionable arm strength and I'm wondering if some stand out to you in the above way that you have noticed in past years.
 
Anthony Borbely said:
To the casual observer, this might be an example of Canfield lacking arm strength to complete an NFL quality route. The pass lacked the zip and distance on first blush. However, when you replay what happened there is an explanation for Canfield's poor throw that is extremely coachable and has nothing to do with his arm strength. The real issue was his footwork. When Canfield finished his drop, he should have been in a position to throw as soon as his back foot hit the ground on the last step of the drop. However, he didn't have his body in position to achieve this because he didn't make an effective drop in terms of his body position and steps. When his back foot hit the ground on the final step of the drop, Canfield had to shuffle his back foot just a bit before he delivered the ball. This shuffle and bounce to get in position after the throw forced him to deliver the ball out of rhythm. Footwork is one of the most correctable issues a coach can address for a quarterback. If you see anyone say Canfield lacks arm strength, they are missing the details.
Hey Matt, great stuff. Regarding the above that I took from your initial post, any recent QBs who came out with these issues and corrected them in the NFL? Seems like there are a lot of players who come into the league with questionable arm strength and I'm wondering if some stand out to you in the above way that you have noticed in past years.
This is a long, rambling answer...sorry..."Fixing mechanics" is a pervasive phrase used for most QBs entering the league and most frequently it applies to footwork. There are a few different topics that I think your question covers. For instance there are QBs who really lacked great arm strength, but always had good natural accuracy and anticipation with their throws. Once they refined their drops, set ups, and timing of routes with their recognition of what NFL defenses do and how to beat them, they became strong players. Drew Brees was seen by so many NFL people as a glorified system QB in college. You could have joked Joe Tiller was trying to be Texas Tech North at Purdue. When Brees came into the league, I would read analysis that Brees lacked the arm strength to complete the deep out and he would never be able to make the franchise QB passes in the intermediate passing game or stretch the field. Part of the problem they also said was his height which would inhibit his ability to find passing lanes. What they missed is Brees has uncanny accuracy that comes from great anticipation to release the ball. In probably 80 percent of the cases most deep passes cover no more than 40-50 yards of distance in the air. If you can throw the ball 35-45 yards with reasonable accuracy, you can be a highly successful deep ball passer if you have good anticipation. Kerry Collins has a very strong arm, but he's a bad deep ball thrower because he's consistently late to release the ball. His career was actually resuscitated by Jim Fassel there was a segment done by a pre-game show that discussed the work done with Collins' footwork to correct issues he had with his throwing motion. On the other hand, Brees is statistically one of the best deep ball throwers and his arm was always described as subpar by NFL personnel standards. The reason is he releases the ball early. When you do this, the receiver doesn't have to wait for the ball and allow that separation he got on the CB to dissipate. It's not so much about pinpointing the ball 50 yards down field as it is allowing the WR to maintain his stride to catch up to the ball rather than make a more difficult play to come back or wait for it with the CB recovering. Jeff Garcia and Rich Gannon didn't have great arm strength. Gannon became a master at releasing the ball with good anticipation and there is a great NFL Films segment where Gruden is working with Gannon on throwing the deep ball. Heck, Joe Montana didn't have a great arm. However, he had great anticipation and terrific footwork. Brad Johnson wasn't a great QB, and he didn't have a great arm but he had decent seasons as an NFL player. Bruce Gradkowski has shown he can be effective and his arm strength is on the level of Garcia's. He just needed work on his anticipation and "mechanics." I think the reason Gradkwoski didn't stick with Tampa had a lot to do with the fickle nature of Gruden AND more importantly pressure from GMs and ownership who value arm strength, size, velocity, and physical skills and their likely disconnect with coaches and scouts who value those things, but also have more appreciation for savvy, mechanics, technique, and the mental aspects of the game. As a result, I think the media, owners, casual fans, and some GMs think it's easier for a QB to get better as a decision maker, get calmer in the pocket, and get better at recognizing schemes than it is for a QB to correct minor flaws in mechanics like drop backs and set ups. Josh McCown, Rob Johnson, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Tarvaris Jackson, and many others have great arm strength and mobility but they don't process the game well and didn't develop the mental aspect of their games. They seemed to get extended chances in the league - especially Rob Johnson.As for good arms but technique needing refinement, Vince Young and Donovan McNabb have improved footwork since entering the league. Same with Favre, who was way too reckless and despite the fact he still does a lot of stuff that just seems unnatural, he also refined his footwork under Holmgren to become a more accurate QB in a west coast system to minimize some of his more reckless tendencies. Sean Canfield has the arm strength and flashes very good anticipation (kind of like former OSU QB Matt Moore, who Sigmund described his performance against the Giants as "flawless" last week, but had mechanics issues), but he's limiting his potential with his poor footwork.
 
So here's another nuance of the game that keeps good runners on the sidelines as rookies or second-year guys in the NFL. This time the player is USC RB Joe McKnight. He has 10.3-100m speed. He has good feet and agility, and he is really improving as a between the tackles runner. Not great in that department, but might be good enough to be more than a third down back if he keeps working at it.

However, he won't see the field on third down if he can't become a better pass protector. Against Notre Dame, McKnight has two assignments in the first half as a pass protector. Both times, he does a good job diagnosing where he needs to help and slides to the location. Both times were edge rushers and he gets there on-time to deliver a chip or full-on block.

Except, McKnight does something curious each time. He drops his head before the impending contact and once he literally turns his back into the hit. Not good form. Big deal, he made the block right?

Wrong.

Because he's telegraphing his movements to the defense and eventually someone will pick up on it, and at the worst time.

It's 3rd and 14 with 9:02 in the game. ND just cut the lead to 14 points and QB Matt Barkley drops back with McKnight as the RB. Once again, McKnight spots the edge rusher. Once again he slide effectively to the spot to make a block. And once again, he lowers his head too soon.

This time the edge rusher anticipates this move and hurdles McKnight and collides with Barkley as the QB is making his throw, knocking the ball off course and allowing the DB to undercut the route for an interception who takes it back 15 yards to set ND in the red zone and an eventual score that cuts the lead to seven.

Small techniques can change a game. Just ask Adrian Peterson after Monday Night's loss that you could pin the pivotal play on him. Then again, don't as Peterson. In his post game interview, he was still in denial that he had good technique protecting the ball when his elbow was so far from his body that you could have poked Brad Childress' big dome in there to knock it loose.

Peterson is the exception to the rule when it comes backs getting PT despite troubling issues that can change the course of a game.

Jerome Harrison is a back who has had difficulty in pass protection. We all saw how good of a runner he can be, but if you can't do the little things that can change the game for the worse if you slip up, then it's hard to earn an opportunity.

 
Matt Waldman said:
az_prof said:
I watched Wisconsin beat Miami soundly yesterday and here are my thoughts on these two:Jacory Harris - I was not impressed. It was just one game but he regularly made bad passes. He made two nice down field throws but I saw him miss a lot more than he threw well.RB Javarris James - I agree with you about James. He doesn't have the strong, lower body and compact frame that most NFL pros have. I also watched John Clay for WI, who was the Big Ten rushing leader. I wanted to like him but he looks like a mix between Brandon Jacobs (his ceiling) and Ron Dayne (his floor). Not sure which he is, but his top end speed didn't impress (he had one long run that a quicker, more agile back would have gotten into the end zone) and he seems like one of those big college backs who does great with a big hole but not sure he can break or avoid tackles if there isn't much of a hole.
I agree with you about Clay from the times I saw him last year. Wisconsin traditionally has a great o-line and blocking scheme that they execute well. He actually looked more athletic as a freshman...
On Clay. I agree, he looked much more athletic last year. In fact, the gut he's sporting seemed out of character. Remember also that he started out the season as a backup, and it had everything to do with his work ethic. He did not enter the season in shape, and it doesn't seem like he's gotten that under control. The coaching staff was all over him early in the year, essentially calling him out at every turn.To his credit, he's played better. But unless he gets his head on straight, he will not amount to much as a pro prospect. It has nothing to do with talent, because he's plenty talented. And when in shape, he shows much better speed.
 
Anyone have thoughts on O'Brien Schofield? Undersized D end, but he was extremely disruptive all season for Wisconsin. Just curious on his pro prospects. At 6' 3" 245 or so, might he be a fit as a 3-4 linebacker?

 
Jerome Harrison is a back who has had difficulty in pass protection. We all saw how good of a runner he can be, but if you can't do the little things that can change the game for the worse if you slip up, then it's hard to earn an opportunity.
I was talking with a friend the other night who pointed that out. He has good running skills especially for someone without a special physcial trait, but multiple offensive admistrations have seen has pass blocking and figured that we are better off with lesser runners. At the end, we won't know what to do with him in dynasty leagues because he is not even close to mediocore as a pass protector. For his sake, he needs to at least be a guy who knows how to get in the way versus being a total QB killer.
 
Matt Waldman said:
az_prof said:
I watched Wisconsin beat Miami soundly yesterday and here are my thoughts on these two:Jacory Harris - I was not impressed. It was just one game but he regularly made bad passes. He made two nice down field throws but I saw him miss a lot more than he threw well.RB Javarris James - I agree with you about James. He doesn't have the strong, lower body and compact frame that most NFL pros have. I also watched John Clay for WI, who was the Big Ten rushing leader. I wanted to like him but he looks like a mix between Brandon Jacobs (his ceiling) and Ron Dayne (his floor). Not sure which he is, but his top end speed didn't impress (he had one long run that a quicker, more agile back would have gotten into the end zone) and he seems like one of those big college backs who does great with a big hole but not sure he can break or avoid tackles if there isn't much of a hole.
I agree with you about Clay from the times I saw him last year. Wisconsin traditionally has a great o-line and blocking scheme that they execute well. He actually looked more athletic as a freshman...
On Clay. I agree, he looked much more athletic last year. In fact, the gut he's sporting seemed out of character. Remember also that he started out the season as a backup, and it had everything to do with his work ethic. He did not enter the season in shape, and it doesn't seem like he's gotten that under control. The coaching staff was all over him early in the year, essentially calling him out at every turn.To his credit, he's played better. But unless he gets his head on straight, he will not amount to much as a pro prospect. It has nothing to do with talent, because he's plenty talented. And when in shape, he shows much better speed.
I hate to be the same university comparison guy, but while taller he has very much a Ron Dayne smell all over him. Big back with good speed for his size, but not the power you expect and can get too heavy for his own good.
 
RB Craig Cooper - In contrast, Cooper looks like a player I think will grow into a contributor. It's hard for me to believe he's 6-1, 205-210 as I've seen his weight listed. I think he could fill into that kind of weight, maybe 220 in a couple of years, and not lose his quickness. He has more wiggle than James and I think he has more of a chance.
I never considered him a candidate to come out this year simply because he is way better than his numbers. Well, he tore his ACL today (still unofficial but pretty obvious), so his decision to stay probably just got forced on him. Terrible timing because he won't be ready by the opener and won't be right all year. Graig is a very underrated talent but the big numbers he probably wanted/needed to go in the first two rounds are now probably out of reach.
 
RB Craig Cooper - In contrast, Cooper looks like a player I think will grow into a contributor. It's hard for me to believe he's 6-1, 205-210 as I've seen his weight listed. I think he could fill into that kind of weight, maybe 220 in a couple of years, and not lose his quickness. He has more wiggle than James and I think he has more of a chance.
I never considered him a candidate to come out this year simply because he is way better than his numbers. Well, he tore his ACL today (still unofficial but pretty obvious), so his decision to stay probably just got forced on him. Terrible timing because he won't be ready by the opener and won't be right all year. Graig is a very underrated talent but the big numbers he probably wanted/needed to go in the first two rounds are now probably out of reach.
That stinks for Cooper, especially since he's with a program on the rise like Miami that will probably have a good set of players ready to take over at RB....Miami has some bad luck for injuries at this position. I remember watching Melvin Bratton in the 80s and thought he was a can't-miss prospect. Then he was just "meh" with the Broncos. Until I watched that ESPN special on the Canes I didn't realize he tore his knee in the last game of his college career and cost himself a shot at a strong career. Bratton, Gore, McGahee, Cooper, Jarret Payton, I think all of them had some major injury while there.
 
Anthony Borbely said:
To the casual observer, this might be an example of Canfield lacking arm strength to complete an NFL quality route. The pass lacked the zip and distance on first blush. However, when you replay what happened there is an explanation for Canfield's poor throw that is extremely coachable and has nothing to do with his arm strength. The real issue was his footwork. When Canfield finished his drop, he should have been in a position to throw as soon as his back foot hit the ground on the last step of the drop. However, he didn't have his body in position to achieve this because he didn't make an effective drop in terms of his body position and steps. When his back foot hit the ground on the final step of the drop, Canfield had to shuffle his back foot just a bit before he delivered the ball. This shuffle and bounce to get in position after the throw forced him to deliver the ball out of rhythm. Footwork is one of the most correctable issues a coach can address for a quarterback. If you see anyone say Canfield lacks arm strength, they are missing the details.
Hey Matt, great stuff. Regarding the above that I took from your initial post, any recent QBs who came out with these issues and corrected them in the NFL? Seems like there are a lot of players who come into the league with questionable arm strength and I'm wondering if some stand out to you in the above way that you have noticed in past years.
This is a long, rambling answer...sorry..."Fixing mechanics" is a pervasive phrase used for most QBs entering the league and most frequently it applies to footwork. There are a few different topics that I think your question covers. For instance there are QBs who really lacked great arm strength, but always had good natural accuracy and anticipation with their throws. Once they refined their drops, set ups, and timing of routes with their recognition of what NFL defenses do and how to beat them, they became strong players. Drew Brees was seen by so many NFL people as a glorified system QB in college. You could have joked Joe Tiller was trying to be Texas Tech North at Purdue. When Brees came into the league, I would read analysis that Brees lacked the arm strength to complete the deep out and he would never be able to make the franchise QB passes in the intermediate passing game or stretch the field. Part of the problem they also said was his height which would inhibit his ability to find passing lanes. What they missed is Brees has uncanny accuracy that comes from great anticipation to release the ball. In probably 80 percent of the cases most deep passes cover no more than 40-50 yards of distance in the air. If you can throw the ball 35-45 yards with reasonable accuracy, you can be a highly successful deep ball passer if you have good anticipation. Kerry Collins has a very strong arm, but he's a bad deep ball thrower because he's consistently late to release the ball. His career was actually resuscitated by Jim Fassel there was a segment done by a pre-game show that discussed the work done with Collins' footwork to correct issues he had with his throwing motion. On the other hand, Brees is statistically one of the best deep ball throwers and his arm was always described as subpar by NFL personnel standards. The reason is he releases the ball early. When you do this, the receiver doesn't have to wait for the ball and allow that separation he got on the CB to dissipate. It's not so much about pinpointing the ball 50 yards down field as it is allowing the WR to maintain his stride to catch up to the ball rather than make a more difficult play to come back or wait for it with the CB recovering. Jeff Garcia and Rich Gannon didn't have great arm strength. Gannon became a master at releasing the ball with good anticipation and there is a great NFL Films segment where Gruden is working with Gannon on throwing the deep ball. Heck, Joe Montana didn't have a great arm. However, he had great anticipation and terrific footwork. Brad Johnson wasn't a great QB, and he didn't have a great arm but he had decent seasons as an NFL player. Bruce Gradkowski has shown he can be effective and his arm strength is on the level of Garcia's. He just needed work on his anticipation and "mechanics." I think the reason Gradkwoski didn't stick with Tampa had a lot to do with the fickle nature of Gruden AND more importantly pressure from GMs and ownership who value arm strength, size, velocity, and physical skills and their likely disconnect with coaches and scouts who value those things, but also have more appreciation for savvy, mechanics, technique, and the mental aspects of the game. As a result, I think the media, owners, casual fans, and some GMs think it's easier for a QB to get better as a decision maker, get calmer in the pocket, and get better at recognizing schemes than it is for a QB to correct minor flaws in mechanics like drop backs and set ups. Josh McCown, Rob Johnson, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Tarvaris Jackson, and many others have great arm strength and mobility but they don't process the game well and didn't develop the mental aspect of their games. They seemed to get extended chances in the league - especially Rob Johnson.As for good arms but technique needing refinement, Vince Young and Donovan McNabb have improved footwork since entering the league. Same with Favre, who was way too reckless and despite the fact he still does a lot of stuff that just seems unnatural, he also refined his footwork under Holmgren to become a more accurate QB in a west coast system to minimize some of his more reckless tendencies. Sean Canfield has the arm strength and flashes very good anticipation (kind of like former OSU QB Matt Moore, who Sigmund described his performance against the Giants as "flawless" last week, but had mechanics issues), but he's limiting his potential with his poor footwork.
Thanks. Great stuff here. :thumbup:
 
Woohoo! Love finishing a championship season on Monday and starting scouting for next year on Tuesday, which I always do with Matt and the RSP.How bout that Stanford RB?
I'll throw in a quick :confused: on Gerhart here...got to interview him when he was in NYC for the Heisman presentation, good kid, humble, and told me he patterned his game after Michael Turner. His dad's favorite player was Earl Campbell. :goodposting:The Vardell comparisons are wrong. Gerhart runs like a tailback and is very light on his feet. In fact, I told him that he reminds me of Jerome Bettis. He's hard to bring down when he gets a head of steam, and can spin/juke around defenders. It's rare that a big man has that type of footwork. He's not Alstott either in my opinion because he doesn't run as low as Alstott did. Mike Alstott was all power and determination. he gave you nothing to tackle except shoulders and knees. Gerhart is big and swift, but generates power from momentum. He runs a little upright for my taste, but I see him having a good (not great) pro career.
Is he Brandon Jacobs-esque? or still more Bettis? Loved Bettis, I'll pass on Jacobs though.
 
Matt Waldman said:
az_prof said:
I watched Wisconsin beat Miami soundly yesterday and here are my thoughts on these two:Jacory Harris - I was not impressed. It was just one game but he regularly made bad passes. He made two nice down field throws but I saw him miss a lot more than he threw well.RB Javarris James - I agree with you about James. He doesn't have the strong, lower body and compact frame that most NFL pros have. I also watched John Clay for WI, who was the Big Ten rushing leader. I wanted to like him but he looks like a mix between Brandon Jacobs (his ceiling) and Ron Dayne (his floor). Not sure which he is, but his top end speed didn't impress (he had one long run that a quicker, more agile back would have gotten into the end zone) and he seems like one of those big college backs who does great with a big hole but not sure he can break or avoid tackles if there isn't much of a hole.
I agree with you about Clay from the times I saw him last year. Wisconsin traditionally has a great o-line and blocking scheme that they execute well. He actually looked more athletic as a freshman...
On Clay. I agree, he looked much more athletic last year. In fact, the gut he's sporting seemed out of character. Remember also that he started out the season as a backup, and it had everything to do with his work ethic. He did not enter the season in shape, and it doesn't seem like he's gotten that under control. The coaching staff was all over him early in the year, essentially calling him out at every turn.To his credit, he's played better. But unless he gets his head on straight, he will not amount to much as a pro prospect. It has nothing to do with talent, because he's plenty talented. And when in shape, he shows much better speed.
I hate to be the same university comparison guy, but while taller he has very much a Ron Dayne smell all over him. Big back with good speed for his size, but not the power you expect and can get too heavy for his own good.
I've actually watched them both extensively, being in Wisconsin. John Clay has a lot more power than Ron Dayne ever did. In fact, I don't think it's even close. Clay loves contact and run very well inside the tackles. He punishes people.You're right about him being too heavy. He came into the program at like 220 or so, and I think he just got lazy. If he comes into next season in shape, I think you'll see a return of the burst.To me, Clay is a much better athlete than Dayne, and I've though that since he first stepped on campus. He just needs to get it together.
 
Matt Waldman said:
az_prof said:
I watched Wisconsin beat Miami soundly yesterday and here are my thoughts on these two:Jacory Harris - I was not impressed. It was just one game but he regularly made bad passes. He made two nice down field throws but I saw him miss a lot more than he threw well.RB Javarris James - I agree with you about James. He doesn't have the strong, lower body and compact frame that most NFL pros have. I also watched John Clay for WI, who was the Big Ten rushing leader. I wanted to like him but he looks like a mix between Brandon Jacobs (his ceiling) and Ron Dayne (his floor). Not sure which he is, but his top end speed didn't impress (he had one long run that a quicker, more agile back would have gotten into the end zone) and he seems like one of those big college backs who does great with a big hole but not sure he can break or avoid tackles if there isn't much of a hole.
I agree with you about Clay from the times I saw him last year. Wisconsin traditionally has a great o-line and blocking scheme that they execute well. He actually looked more athletic as a freshman...
On Clay. I agree, he looked much more athletic last year. In fact, the gut he's sporting seemed out of character. Remember also that he started out the season as a backup, and it had everything to do with his work ethic. He did not enter the season in shape, and it doesn't seem like he's gotten that under control. The coaching staff was all over him early in the year, essentially calling him out at every turn.To his credit, he's played better. But unless he gets his head on straight, he will not amount to much as a pro prospect. It has nothing to do with talent, because he's plenty talented. And when in shape, he shows much better speed.
I hate to be the same university comparison guy, but while taller he has very much a Ron Dayne smell all over him. Big back with good speed for his size, but not the power you expect and can get too heavy for his own good.
I've actually watched them both extensively, being in Wisconsin. John Clay has a lot more power than Ron Dayne ever did. In fact, I don't think it's even close. Clay loves contact and run very well inside the tackles. He punishes people.You're right about him being too heavy. He came into the program at like 220 or so, and I think he just got lazy. If he comes into next season in shape, I think you'll see a return of the burst.To me, Clay is a much better athlete than Dayne, and I've though that since he first stepped on campus. He just needs to get it together.
I will trust you on that since I have seen only 2 maybe 3 Wisconsin games this year. Just don't remember him plowing over anyone in my views.
 
Every year I have been doing this, I watch at least one player who impresses me despite box score stats that are less impressive in the game I am studying. The three players who came to mind in previous years include Joseph Addai, Matt Forte, and Ahmad Bradshaw.

I watched Addai against a top-ranked Auburn defense and came away impressed with his vision, blocking, receiving, and ability to gain yards after contact despite (if I remember correctly) averaging less than two yards per carry. I had a similar experience with Forte when Tulane with an offensive line that according to the commentator looking over the scouting reports, had one player with the strength to bench press the weight that something like 70 other LSU players could do. Despite less than impressive stats overall, Forte shined individually when you looked for things like vision, agility, burst, decision making, and pass receiving. Bradshaw also looked great under fire against (at that time) a very strong Tennessee defense.

All three showed the ability to read what the defense at the line of scrimmage prior to the snap and as they were taking the hand off and make an efficient reaction to turn a likely loss in yardage into a minimal gain.

That doesn't sound impressive statistically, but think about the most successful running formation in football, which I would argue is currently the I-formation. The I-formation gives the runner between 5-7 yards of space from the line of scrimmage to read and react to what's happening in front of him. If the runner has a dominant offensive line, he is going to have up to 8-10 yards to set up the blocking scheme of guards pulling, the center getting off line and into the next level of line backers, a fullback finding a crease to seal, etc.

A good back has the vision and footwork to set up the blocks on the move, but remain patient enough to not move too fast until the right time that the crease is about to open. It's almost like playing music - you have to know the right time to come in and play your part by listening to what's going around you and recognizing where you fit - except this is visual music.

When a back is playing with a poor offensive line and/or against a dominant defense, his time and space to read and react is shortened. Using the music analogy, it's the difference between playing a solo when the music is at a breakneck pace versus a moderate beat. In these situations, the defensive line is often penetrating as much as 3-4 yards into the offensive backfield, cutting anywhere between 1/3 - 1/2 the time/space a back has to let blocks develop and make a decision. This means a back who can gain positive yardage, even minimal yardage, when the 3-5 defenders are 1-3 yards into the offensive back field has had to do more in less time and space.

Let's use a pro player as an example: Frank Gore.

Under Mike Nolan's regime, do you remember Gore frequently lined up in formations where he was closer than usual to the offensive line compared to backs on other teams? As mentioned above, Gore has great skill at finding the green but one of the reasons the 49ers used this formation was to try to compensate for the offensive line's youth/injuries/lack of developed skill and run quick-hitting plays. You can only do this somewhat successfully in the NFL if you have a back with great vision and agility - which we all know Gore has. Those weren't great seasons for Gore compared to how he looked when the line was playing better and he could operate from a more traditional I-formation or further back in a single back set.

These examples set up two backs I watched last night: Auburn's Ben Tate and Ball State's MiQuale Lewis.

Ben Tate, Auburn (vs. Ball State): I see Tate's name mentioned in a group of backs I particularly like. I have seen him in previous years under the Tommy Tuberville regime and casually came away with the impression that he was a typical Auburn back: powerful, athletic, and versatile. However, he is now running from the spread or the Pistol (which at least mimics the I-formation in terms starting behind the QB and with good depth from the line). Tate started the game with at least four plays with no gain. These were all from the spread where he was running east-west to the line of scrimmage or veering diagonally through a lane off guard or tackle. These runs really made Tate look slow and even somewhat clumsy. He looked little like the back I heard about or even saw at times in previous years.

Then I saw Tate return a kick and he showed good build-up speed, balance, and power. This was due to the fact that he was running north-south and could make cuts, dips, or leaps over traffic from a base of power by running down hill. If a player tried to grab him, he was too big and moving too fast for the defender to maintain a grasp on the RB or knock him down as easily. It was only when Tate ran from the Pistol that he began to look like a pro prospect. You could literally see him run with more confidence and authority. It was almost like watching two different runners. I'm looking forward to watching him in and SEC game and maybe some games in previous seasons to learn more.

I just thought I'd share this with you because, it's a great example of how a player needs to fit a system to maximize his skills. It also showed that Tate may have that nice physical size and decent speed (I would think he's more Rudi Johnson-like than a real speedster, but we'll see), but he lacks the patience and agility to be a special runner. I think you put him in a gap-style blocking scheme in an I-formation and he could be a 1300-yard runner in an offense with good skill players at WR and QB to stretch the field. But without that, he's a role player at best in an RBBC.

MiQuale Lewis, Ball State (vs. Auburn) - Now here's a back who in at least one respect reminded me of the Matt Forte/Ahmad Bradshaw/Joseph Addai comparisons. Lewis gained 1700 yards last year behind a good offensive line that was filled with upperclassmen and a QB who I think will still have a say in the 49ers future (Nate Davis) whether they like it or not. This year, Lewis is running behind a line filled with freshman. Lewis had a horrible night statistically and he was even dropped for a safety in the game. However, I came away impressed with him for a number of reasons I stated about Forte/Bradshaw/Addai earlier:

Decisions: Lewis frequently turned 3-yard losses into no-gainers or gains of 1-3 yards because he would make a presnap read of the defensive front, use the offensive motion of his receivers to determine if the defense was playing zone or man (which helped him read which players had outside contain), and also see who might be run blitzing. He would then adjust his run accordingly at the snap, frequently making a quick lateral cut to avoid a blitzing MLB coming untouched through a gap into the backfield and cutting back to an open space for a small gain. He did this on at least five of his 14 carries.

On his two big losses, the offense was running a stretch play where he has to flow with the line before he even receives the hand off and that forces the RB's hand in terms of where he can go. This meant Lewis would have had to do what only (and I mean only) Barry Sanders could do on such a run to just turn the play into a no-gainer, which is make a stop on a dime and accelerate quickly enough on a dramatic cut back in the face of from backside pursuit.

Think of the stretch play when it fails this way: You're trying to cross the street on a corner of in a busy intersection and while you're walking forward with the rest of the pedestrians, you forget that you needed to go left instead of straight. Without thinking you turn left and try to run across the road as a truck is going 30 mph through the intersection. You better be have great peripheral vision and reaction or time or you're dead.

Lewis didn't have that kind of skill, but he did have the ability to run through hits to his legs and maintain good balance while eluding the first or second hit just to get back to the line of scrimmage on plays where he easily could have been blown up in the backfield.

At 5-6 and 193 lbs, I'm not sure Lewis will have a chance to start anywhere. However, there are more and more backs who have defined the phrase "he's short, but not small" and succeeded. Lewis will have to be an extreme case and at 193 lbs., he just might be a surprisingly decent committee back. I have more to watch before I come to a conclusion myself, but right now he's in my sleeper category.

 
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Who do you like best at WR after Dez Bryant?It seems like there's a host of contenders there and no clear consensus. I've seen Mardy Gilyard, Demaryius Thomas, Damian Williams, Arrelious Benn, Jeremy Williams, Eric Decker, Dezmon Briscoe, and various other names floated as potential candidates for the WR2 spot.
Right now I am thinking Danario Alexander over all those guys. Here is a guy that was ahead of Maclin until he got hurt. Some will probably be drafted before him but he is better.Tomorrow 3:30 ESPN Missouri vs Navy.
:unsure: Didn't watch him vs. Navy, but he looked impressive against Nevada. He's well on his way to becoming a starting NFL receiver. Although he's not as technically proficient as Williams, he shows the toughness over the middle, the physical skills after the catch, and improving hands technique to make an impact sooner than later as a pro. Combine that with his speed, height, and hops and I think I might have to agree with you...
 

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