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Root Root Root for the Home Team: POLLS ARE CLOSING (1 Viewer)

MAC_32

Footballguy
Living in Portland, the town is abuzz with talk about Portland Baseball and as much as I would love to buy in, I'm skeptical.  It was bandied about before in the early aughts when the Expos were looking for a new home, but when they landed in Washington, the dream here kind of died.  But new funding, great ownership group, plans for a new stadium with all sorts of development the city desperately needs and this time it feels....different.  And with Oakland and Tampa needing new parks and perhaps new home cities (potentially) I think it might just happen in my lifetime (assuming these kids don't put me 6 feet under too soon).  

So curious what you outsiders think about baseball to Portland.  Does it even touch your radar screen?  Is it ever something that's talked about outside of this state?  I would imagine die hard baseball guys who are well read are in the know, but my curiosity extends to perhaps the casual fan who might post in here.  Would love others' thoughts on the matter and didn't feel like starting a new thread. 

TIA, will answer yours.  And as always, to the extent Portland ever does get MLB, beers on GM if you come here to escape your heat and catch a game.  :thumbup:
My opinion strictly depends on ownership's willingness to spend on personnel. By the time itd happen my kids wont be getting up so ridiculously early, so maybe I'll be able to enjoy left coast baseball again. 

 

Capella

CAPELLODINHO
Does market size matter as much in baseball? It seems like MLB has settled in as a fairly regional sport, it's not like the Rays are on Sunday Night Baseball or generating loads of national shared MLB revenue. 

I don't know the answer, it just seems to me like market size would be a bit less relevant in this situation.
Think it matters quite a bit for regional tv deals, which apparently are quite profitable. But no it wouldn’t matter for national stuff. 

 

Eephus

Footballguy
Think it matters quite a bit for regional tv deals, which apparently are quite profitable. But no it wouldn’t matter for national stuff. 
Local TV deals are the #2 source of team revenue after attendance.  The Oaklands have a long-term local TV deal that runs for another decade. Their estimated revenues were around MLB average a couple of years ago but I haven't seen any recent data.  The Giants' local deal is bigger but the Bay Area is a big market.  Tampa is a much bigger market than Portland, especially if you roll in the Orlando area.  A Montreal team could potentially have nationwide reach but I don't know the ins and out of Canadian TV.

I think there's some exposure as current deals expire because industry consolidation, carriage disputes and technology shifts may kill the golden goose.  The television landscape is going to change significantly this year as the old Fox RSNs are sold off. 

I've tried to spark discussion about this in the ESPN thread but folks would rather talk about social justice.

 

Doctor Detroit

Please remove your headgear
Does market size matter as much in baseball? It seems like MLB has settled in as a fairly regional sport, it's not like the Rays are on Sunday Night Baseball or generating loads of national shared MLB revenue. 

I don't know the answer, it just seems to me like market size would be a bit less relevant in this situation.
Yeah baseball is still a local/regional sport.  A lot of it has to do with baseball being better in-person, and the connection it has to community.  Say what you want but baseball still impacts more communities than any other sport at a professional level.  Fort Wayne has a team, so does Montgomery, so does Red Rock.  I think baseball in general needs to market this aspect more, because fan in Grand Rapids is going to follow those players to the majors. 

I'm not a Dodgers fan, but I am a HUGE Great Lakes Loons fan which is a Dodgers affiliate. I go to see guys like Fernando Tatis Jr play for Fort Wayne, but I also follow guys like Alex Verdugo and Dee Gordon a little closer because they were Loons. 

 

Encyclopedia Brown

Footballguy
The television landscape is going to change significantly this year as the old Fox RSNs are sold off. 
The Cubs are starting their own exclusive network next season. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, and whether they continue a trend or end it. The Yankees have done fine with their network, but the Dodgers have had serious issues even getting their broadcasts into the LA area. Everyone has their eyes on how the Cubs work it out.

There have been whispers that the cable/satellite providers are going to ask for a six dollar fee per subscriber to put the network on the grid. The Cubs shrewdly partnered with Sinclair who have enough pull to block that fee, but you never know.

 

General Malaise

Poop Lord
Tampa is the 11th biggest market and Portland is like in the 40s. The Rays ratings are excellent annually. I just can’t see them moving to a substantially smaller market unless there is just nowhere to go with the stadium here. I guess that’s possible but I think they’ll figure it out. 

Anyways I’m a Yankees fan 
My buddy just got back from Tampa and showed me pics/vids of his trip.  My god, what a beautiful city.  Took a boat out to dinner.  Perfect weather, gorgeous homes on the water, neat downtown area.  I've never been, but I hope to go there one day.  

Had to look it up as I knew Portland was small, but didn't think it was in the 40s type small.  According to one site I'm on, Portland is #22, ahead of cities like Baltimore and Pittsburgh in terms of media market size.  And Portland is growing like the weed that's smoked here.  People are flocking here which sucks for traffic, but great for homeowners.  So I'm not sure Tampa to Portland is an enormous downgrade on market size but I am sure people in Portland will go to the games and pack a new stadium.  Why don't they go to games in Tampa?  The optics of an empty dome are horrible on TV.  I also can't imagine that anybody in the history of the world has made Tampa a destination to attend a Rays game.  I've made that the focal point for trips to Boston and Chicago and people do that all the time for Mariner games.  Seattle's stadium is sold out whenever Boston, New York, Toronto or the Cubs come into town and it's not with people wearing Felix jerseys.  I would imagine Portland would get the same treatment as we're already a destination for summer visitors.  

I'm against the idea of expansion.  The league is already watered down enough.  The 4th and 5th starters for most teams are garbage already, I can't imagine the scrub that takes the ball every 5th day for Texas with another two franchises added to MLB.  

 

Eephus

Footballguy
MLB hasn't expanded for 20 years.  It's probably inevitable particularly if other revenue streams start to level off.  It would be nice to have two sixteen team leagues and make inter-league scheduling less random.  Expansion could also be a bone to throw at the MLBPA since it would create jobs.

People made the same arguments about talent when the Rockies/Marlins and Rays/Dbacks expansions occurred.  It's not like the new teams would have to use the 751st through 800th best players  Talent would be redistributed throughout the league and the quality of play wouldn't be noticeably impacted.

 

General Malaise

Poop Lord
MLB hasn't expanded for 20 years.  It's probably inevitable particularly if other revenue streams start to level off.  It would be nice to have two sixteen team leagues and make inter-league scheduling less random.  Expansion could also be a bone to throw at the MLBPA since it would create jobs.

People made the same arguments about talent when the Rockies/Marlins and Rays/Dbacks expansions occurred.  It's not like the new teams would have to use the 751st through 800th best players  Talent would be redistributed throughout the league and the quality of play wouldn't be noticeably impacted.
Whatever it takes to get baseball here I'm all for.  👍

 

Bob Loblaw

Footballguy
Lifelong Oakland A's fan.

Worked concessions at the Coliseum in high school and college ('93 thru '96).  So, I got to be at the ballpark a lot.  Living in Marin now, I always feel like a fish out of water wearing my A's gear in Giants' territory.  Got to meet Canseco (Jose, not Ozzie) a couple of years ago when he did a HR hitting exhibition/autograph signing session at a San Rafael Pacifics (local semi-pro team) game.  

I'll support/root for the Giants if they're in the post-season.  But I'll always throw the '87 WS in my Marin friends' faces whenever they say how great the Giants are. 

 
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Bogart

Footballguy
Yeah baseball is still a local/regional sport.  A lot of it has to do with baseball being better in-person, and the connection it has to community.  Say what you want but baseball still impacts more communities than any other sport at a professional level.  Fort Wayne has a team, so does Montgomery, so does Red Rock.  I think baseball in general needs to market this aspect more, because fan in Grand Rapids is going to follow those players to the majors. 

I'm not a Dodgers fan, but I am a HUGE Great Lakes Loons fan which is a Dodgers affiliate. I go to see guys like Fernando Tatis Jr play for Fort Wayne, but I also follow guys like Alex Verdugo and Dee Gordon a little closer because they were Loons. 
One of my absolute favorite baseball experiences was seeing the Tincups in Fort Wayne. Walked up on a Wednesday night, asked for their best ticket and pretty sure I got change back for my $10. My seat was closer to the field than the dugouts were. So close, I ended up moving back a few rows for a better view of everything. Super clean stadium, great food and $1 local draft beer. Walk up music for each batter was their college fight song. Pretty sure there were more errors than hits, but was still really enjoyable baseball.

Ended the evening buying Tincaps t-shirts for me, my son and my daughter. Daughter was 3-4 at the time and for several years after, she always made sure during my weekend with her we both had to wear our Tincaps shirt to match. 

 

Capella

CAPELLODINHO
Lifelong Oakland A's fan.

Worked concessions at the Coliseum in high school and college ('93 thru '96).  So, I got to be at the ballpark a lot.  Living in Marin now, I always feel like a fish out of water wearing my A's gear in Giants' territory.  Got to meet Canseco (Jose, not Ozzie) a couple of years ago when he did a HR hitting exhibition/autograph signing session at a San Rafael Pacifics (local semi-pro team) game.  

I'll support/root for the Giants if they're in the post-season.  But I'll always throw the '87 WS in my Marin friends' faces whenever they say how great the Giants are. 
89, unless you’re also a twins fan who has beef with the Cardinals. 

 

Eephus

Footballguy
I'll support/root for the Giants if they're in the post-season.  But I'll always throw the '87 WS in my Marin friends' faces whenever they say how great the Giants are. 
It's easier to just throw July 2016 to the present in Giants fans' faces

 

belljr

Footballguy
Philly.

If I had an AL team it would have been Red Sox only because we went to Spring training every year for like 8 straight years. Friends had house in FT Myers but I don't really follow them 

 
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MindCrime

Footballguy
Mets fan here. As a really young kid who grew up in southeast PA, i was a Phillies fan in mid/late 70s, early 80s. ( Michael Jack Schmidt, Rose, Lefty, McBride, Tug.) My Dad was a Mets fan, so I started watching more Mets, slowly changed to a Mets fan. Was full on by the time the’86 Mets happened, and haven’t looked back.

 

Scott Tenorman

Footballguy
Twins fan from before birth (attended a Twins game at the Met in my mom's belly).  But from age 7 to 18 lived 3 hours from Houston so have a small affinity for the Stros.

 
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Capella

CAPELLODINHO
Best team in baseball and nobody goes to the games.  Bring the Rays west already.  It's time.
Take the hardest to get to part of Portland, 40 minutes away from its population center and its cultural base of donut/weed stores and art paintings on abandoned buildings, and drop a baseball stadium there and let me know how well the team does in attendance. 

 
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General Malaise

Poop Lord
Take the hardest to get to part of Portland, 40 minutes away from its population center and its cultural base of donut/weed stores and art paintings on abandoned buildings, and drop a baseball stadium there and let me know how well the team does in attendance. 
But see...it won't.  It's going to build the Rays new stadium downtown on the mighty Willamette, with light rail access already in place.  The new stadium will be an architectural marvel, with restaurants, housing, parks, bars and will be a destination.  It will be loved and supported like the Blazers have been for decades.  It will look nice on TV with nary an empty seat.  Balls won't be hit off a stupid rafter beam in a crappy asssss dome that nobody visits.

Sorry the team is moving, man.  You guys had a chance at MLB, it didn't work, it's time to let another city embrace a good team.

 

Capella

CAPELLODINHO
But see...it won't.  It's going to build the Rays new stadium downtown on the mighty Willamette, with light rail access already in place.  The new stadium will be an architectural marvel, with restaurants, housing, parks, bars and will be a destination.  It will be loved and supported like the Blazers have been for decades.  It will look nice on TV with nary an empty seat.  Balls won't be hit off a stupid rafter beam in a crappy asssss dome that nobody visits.

Sorry the team is moving, man.  You guys had a chance at MLB, it didn't work, it's time to let another city embrace a good team.
If the Rays move, and they likely will not as this is a top-12 market and St. Pete has the money to give them the stadium they want, it will almost definitely be to Montreal and not a tiny city in the middle of nowhere. 

 

General Malaise

Poop Lord
If the Rays move, and they likely will not as this is a top-12 market and St. Pete has the money to give them the stadium they want, it will almost definitely be to Montreal and not a tiny city in the middle of nowhere. 
Go to the games whilst you can.  Nobody else does.  Odd business for the best team in MLB.  :shrug:

Portland Rays.  I rather like that.

 

General Malaise

Poop Lord
You can pretend it’s going to happen but it’s not. You can’t just wish it so. :shrug:  
Just like you can pretend they will get a new stadium and people might go to the games.  They won't and they aren't.  Meanwhile, there's Nike money involved and that ain't no joke, even for a little town like ours in the middle (?) of nowhere.

 

Capella

CAPELLODINHO
Just like you can pretend they will get a new stadium and people might go to the games.  They won't and they aren't.  Meanwhile, there's Nike money involved and that ain't no joke, even for a little town like ours in the middle (?) of nowhere.
I don’t pretend people go to the games. I honestly never even think about it. The team will likely have a stadium in St. Pete or Tampa announced in the next 3 years and if not they’ll go to Montreal. Sorry. You guys have an mls team though. That’s cool. The guy axes wood or something. 

 
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General Malaise

Poop Lord
I don’t pretend people go to the games. I honestly never even think about it. The team will likely have a stadium in St. Pete or Tampa announced in the next 3 years and if not they’ll go to Montreal. Sorry. You guys have an mls team though. That’s cool. The guy axes wood or something. 
That's Timber Joey and he's a bit of a celebrity around here.  You might catch him tonight as the Blazers close out the Thunder to move on to the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Should be on right after Toronto disposes of Orlando.  

 

Capella

CAPELLODINHO
That's Timber Joey and he's a bit of a celebrity around here.  You might catch him tonight as the Blazers close out the Thunder to move on to the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Should be on right after Toronto disposes of Orlando.  
Man if you’re trying out nba smack on me that’s going to hit even lighter than MLB attendance talk. Almost completely near the bottom of things I spend time thinking about. 

 

Northern Voice

Footballguy
Worst in the bigs. :lmao:  I don’t have any sort of emotional attachment to that place. They clearly need a new place. 
They'll go where there is political will to spend millions of dollars and an appetite among the citizens to accept that.

Maybe that's a stadium in Tampa proper that's better accessible. The Lightning seems to be the one pro team in the state that people care to consistently support, their location seems ideal. 

I looked into the Portland thing after it was brought up here and it seems totally pie in the sky right now. 

Montreal has paid it's dues and played nice with MLB and is a big city with a young population and probably feels like they should be on deck for the next team but it's never been entirely clear where exactly the money will come (though there is lots of money in Montreal, much more than 20 years ago when the separatist threat lead a lot of head offices to relocate to Toronto). And the stadium there has to be downtown or it will be the same situation as Tampa. 

 
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General Malaise

Poop Lord
They'll go where there is political will to spend millions of dollars and an appetite among the citizens to accept that.

Maybe that's a stadium in Tampa proper that's better accessible. The Lightning seems to be the one pro team in the state that people care to consistently support, their location seems ideal. 

I looked into the Portland thing after it was brought up here and it seems totally pie in the sky right now. 

Montreal has paid it's dues and played nice with MLB and is a big city with a young population and probably feels like they should be on deck for the next team but it's never been entirely clear where exactly the money will come (though there is lots of money in Montreal, much more than 20 years ago when the separatist threat lead a lot of head offices to relocate to Toronto). And the stadium there has to be downtown or it will be the same situation as Tampa. 
I think it was more pie in the sky in the early 2000s when Portland was being considered as a landing spot for the Expos.  But this feels different.  Portland is one of the fastest growing cities in the country and with Nike money coming to the table, this town is going to be a consideration for MLB sooner rather than later.  Whether that is by expansion or relocation, I don't know but before I die, there will be MLB in Portland.  

I think. :oldunsure:

 

Eephus

Footballguy
I'm going to do a final tally at the end of Aprilish and abandon the OP until next year.

This is your last chance to jump on a bandwagon

 

Northern Voice

Footballguy
Would be Portland Stadium Owner Must Start Paying for Would Be Stadium Land or Go Back to the Drawing Board

How’s that Portland baseball stadium with the tram and the private beer taps but no actual team or money to pay construction costs going, you’re wondering? Let’s check in on the plans, courtesy of The Oregonian, aka Portland’s city newspaper by default even if it’s mostly staffed by empty desks these days:

By the end of the month, the pro baseball boosters could have to start paying the Port of Portland hundreds of thousands of dollars each year for the exclusive negotiating rights to the Northwest Portland terminal where they hope to build a 32,000-seat stadium. The bill for the first three months will come to $375,000.

It’s definitely time to get serious, then: $750,000 a year is a chunk of change to pay just to keep dibs on a site that may or may not ever get a stadium for a team that may or may not ever exist. (Reminder: MLB commissioner Rob Manfred has said that there won’t be any expansion until the Oakland A’s and Tampa Bay Rays get new stadiums, and the latter, at least, seems unlikely before 2027ish.) So is the Portland Diamond Project — main owner, former Nike exec Craig Cheek, main names added to the group’s “leadership” page to sex it up, Russell and Ciara Wilson — ready to make a commitment?

The Diamond Project has only just begun to sort out thorny issues around transportation and zoning that could keep the field just a dream…

Marshall Runkel, chief of staff for City Commissioner Chloe Eudaly, who oversees the city’s Transportation Bureau, said there’s been little progress in addressing the challenge of getting thousands of fans to and from the games.

“It still looks very difficult or impossible from a transportation standpoint to make Terminal 2 work,” Runkel said.

That’s not so good.

There are plenty of questions still unanswered, including who would pay for the venture. The group has shown Mayor Ted Wheeler pledges from big-money investors, but it hasn’t released their names.

That’s also not so good.

Prediction here, based on no inside info other than a gut feeling about how these things usually go: As we get closer to the end of May, Cheek will try to negotiate an extension on the land option, maybe paying a smaller amount to push back the decision date by a few months. Given that nothing much is expected to happen in the next few months, though — maybe the Rays owner will make some kind of statement about where he’s hoping to build a new stadium, but that won’t make a new Rays stadium appear overnight — it’s hard to see what that would get Cheek other than delaying the inevitable. At some point, he’s going to have to decide whether being able to wave “We’ve got a stadium site!” in front of a nonexistent MLB expansion committee is worth paying $750,000 a year to reserve a site that may not even be a good one for a baseball stadium; if he punts and throws a dart at a map to pick another pretend site, I wouldn’t be entirely surprised by that either.
 

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