Roy (the destROYer) Williams (1 Viewer)

[phthalatemagic]

What happened?

If you know his horse collar technique, he grabs up high, hangs on and swings his legs around to the defenders legs so they get tangled and the receiver (or RB, or TE) winds up with blown knees or ankles. Today Williams has shown a new wrinkle in his crippling technique: Just grab around the waist (instead of the collar), swing legs around into back of receivers legs. Different place to hang on, results still the same. Today's victim: Ben Watson.

I didn't see the Watson tackle. Thanks for the info

 

[Ariakis]

Please explain to me how a 220 lb RW can tackle a 260 lb Watson from behind without 1. grabbing him and 2. using his body weight to change his momentum without 3. bouncing off his shoulder pads.

 

[mad sweeney]

Every game I watch I see at least one horse-collar tackle. Not every Cowboys game, but every game. Urlacher did it against Minnesota and got up laughing on Sunday. Twice this past weekend I was watching college games where the announcers pointed out a horse collar tackle and said that the NCAA should implement the same rule. Williams might have "perfected" it, but lets don't kid ourselves that it doesn't go on all the time.

From what I understand, what Urlacher did was not a horse collar tackle, per the rules. they few times I have heard it talked about, the key is that you are grabbing inside the shoulderpads, and then yanking them down. In Urlacher's case he had a handful of jersey, but none of the pads, therefore by the rules it was legal. I have seen many other cases in the Bears games where DB have gone inside the pads, but did not get called for it because of the way the players fell to the ground. If there is not the backwards jerking of the offensive player, it seems it will not get called.

The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey in 2006. And it has nothing to do with how they fall to the ground, just that the player is grasped and immediately pulled to the ground.

That's not quite correct. The definition is "grabbing the shoulder pad and using leverage to propel into the back of the ballcarrier". The back of the jersey has been added, as was note above. So it it has everything to do with how the tackler falls to the ground.IIRC, Urlacher grabbed the guy and yanked him down but didn't bring the guy down by throwing down his weight from behind. The part that injures players isn;t getting grabbed from behind, it's having someone's weight pulling you backwards, often trapping the legs or seriously tweaking the knees.

It would be nice if you bold my entire statement, where I clearly stated that it involves the tackler grasping the collar and immediately pulling the runner to the ground. My statement that it has nothing to do with how they fall to the ground addresses the last statement you made that it often traps the legs. The legs do not have to be trapped for it to be a horse collar tackle.And could you explain how a tackler could pull a runner to the ground from behind without using the weight of his body (which Urlacher clearly did on that play)?

Sure, come run past me real quick, I'll grab your collar and your legs can keep going without your body following as fast because my weight is attached to your collar. You'll end up on the ground without me throwing my weight down. Or you can run by and I'll latch on and then I'll throw my body across yours. That way your body will bend in half and your knee will pop because I'll be laying on your heels while still pulling you down backwards. See the differece?Horse collaring is dangerous when the tackler throws his weight into play as leverage. Bottom line though, using the weight as leverage to pull someone down from behind is in the definition of the HC. Simply yanking someone down from behind is not a HC. And above all, RW does it consistently in the most dangerous fashion by latching on and swinging his body, consistently injuring players.

 

[shakeybarn]

Every game I watch I see at least one horse-collar tackle. Not every Cowboys game, but every game. Urlacher did it against Minnesota and got up laughing on Sunday. Twice this past weekend I was watching college games where the announcers pointed out a horse collar tackle and said that the NCAA should implement the same rule. Williams might have "perfected" it, but lets don't kid ourselves that it doesn't go on all the time.

From what I understand, what Urlacher did was not a horse collar tackle, per the rules. they few times I have heard it talked about, the key is that you are grabbing inside the shoulderpads, and then yanking them down. In Urlacher's case he had a handful of jersey, but none of the pads, therefore by the rules it was legal. I have seen many other cases in the Bears games where DB have gone inside the pads, but did not get called for it because of the way the players fell to the ground. If there is not the backwards jerking of the offensive player, it seems it will not get called.

The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey in 2006. And it has nothing to do with how they fall to the ground, just that the player is grasped and immediately pulled to the ground.

That's not quite correct. The definition is "grabbing the shoulder pad and using leverage to propel into the back of the ballcarrier". The back of the jersey has been added, as was note above. So it it has everything to do with how the tackler falls to the ground.IIRC, Urlacher grabbed the guy and yanked him down but didn't bring the guy down by throwing down his weight from behind. The part that injures players isn;t getting grabbed from behind, it's having someone's weight pulling you backwards, often trapping the legs or seriously tweaking the knees.

It would be nice if you bold my entire statement, where I clearly stated that it involves the tackler grasping the collar and immediately pulling the runner to the ground. My statement that it has nothing to do with how they fall to the ground addresses the last statement you made that it often traps the legs. The legs do not have to be trapped for it to be a horse collar tackle.And could you explain how a tackler could pull a runner to the ground from behind without using the weight of his body (which Urlacher clearly did on that play)?

Sure, come run past me real quick, I'll grab your collar and your legs can keep going without your body following as fast because my weight is attached to your collar. You'll end up on the ground without me throwing my weight down. Or you can run by and I'll latch on and then I'll throw my body across yours. That way your body will bend in half and your knee will pop because I'll be laying on your heels while still pulling you down backwards. See the differece?Horse collaring is dangerous when the tackler throws his weight into play as leverage. Bottom line though, using the weight as leverage to pull someone down from behind is in the definition of the HC. Simply yanking someone down from behind is not a HC. And above all, RW does it consistently in the most dangerous fashion by latching on and swinging his body, consistently injuring players.

Concur... it's the whole "rodeo style" of grabbing on to someone from behind (collar, waist) and riding your weight into the back of their legs, as you continue to pull back. There's a ton of legal moves and offensive line can do, but most ethically don't execute it.

 

[twitch]

Please explain to me how a 220 lb RW can tackle a 260 lb Watson from behind without 1. grabbing him and 2. using his body weight to change his momentum without 3. bouncing off his shoulder pads.

there are many ways. There were over 50 tackles made in that game. Roy Williams made 3 of them. So, there are probably about 47 other example of how to tackle a guy without trying to break his legs. The guy is flat dirty on the football field. Its not even debatable. Dont defend him.

 

[Christo]

Every game I watch I see at least one horse-collar tackle. Not every Cowboys game, but every game. Urlacher did it against Minnesota and got up laughing on Sunday. Twice this past weekend I was watching college games where the announcers pointed out a horse collar tackle and said that the NCAA should implement the same rule. Williams might have "perfected" it, but lets don't kid ourselves that it doesn't go on all the time.

From what I understand, what Urlacher did was not a horse collar tackle, per the rules. they few times I have heard it talked about, the key is that you are grabbing inside the shoulderpads, and then yanking them down. In Urlacher's case he had a handful of jersey, but none of the pads, therefore by the rules it was legal. I have seen many other cases in the Bears games where DB have gone inside the pads, but did not get called for it because of the way the players fell to the ground. If there is not the backwards jerking of the offensive player, it seems it will not get called.

The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey in 2006. And it has nothing to do with how they fall to the ground, just that the player is grasped and immediately pulled to the ground.

That's not quite correct. The definition is "grabbing the shoulder pad and using leverage to propel into the back of the ballcarrier". The back of the jersey has been added, as was note above. So it it has everything to do with how the tackler falls to the ground.IIRC, Urlacher grabbed the guy and yanked him down but didn't bring the guy down by throwing down his weight from behind. The part that injures players isn;t getting grabbed from behind, it's having someone's weight pulling you backwards, often trapping the legs or seriously tweaking the knees.

It would be nice if you bold my entire statement, where I clearly stated that it involves the tackler grasping the collar and immediately pulling the runner to the ground. My statement that it has nothing to do with how they fall to the ground addresses the last statement you made that it often traps the legs. The legs do not have to be trapped for it to be a horse collar tackle.And could you explain how a tackler could pull a runner to the ground from behind without using the weight of his body (which Urlacher clearly did on that play)?

Sure, come run past me real quick, I'll grab your collar and your legs can keep going without your body following as fast because my weight is attached to your collar. You'll end up on the ground without me throwing my weight down. Or you can run by and I'll latch on and then I'll throw my body across yours. That way your body will bend in half and your knee will pop because I'll be laying on your heels while still pulling you down backwards. See the differece?Horse collaring is dangerous when the tackler throws his weight into play as leverage. Bottom line though, using the weight as leverage to pull someone down from behind is in the definition of the HC. Simply yanking someone down from behind is not a HC. And above all, RW does it consistently in the most dangerous fashion by latching on and swinging his body, consistently injuring players.

I said explain to me how a tackler could pull a runner to the ground from behind without using his weight. What you described is not pulling someone to the ground.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Please explain to me how a 220 lb RW can tackle a 260 lb Watson from behind without 1. grabbing him and 2. using his body weight to change his momentum without 3. bouncing off his shoulder pads.

:11:

 

[mad sweeney]

Every game I watch I see at least one horse-collar tackle. Not every Cowboys game, but every game. Urlacher did it against Minnesota and got up laughing on Sunday. Twice this past weekend I was watching college games where the announcers pointed out a horse collar tackle and said that the NCAA should implement the same rule. Williams might have "perfected" it, but lets don't kid ourselves that it doesn't go on all the time.

From what I understand, what Urlacher did was not a horse collar tackle, per the rules. they few times I have heard it talked about, the key is that you are grabbing inside the shoulderpads, and then yanking them down. In Urlacher's case he had a handful of jersey, but none of the pads, therefore by the rules it was legal. I have seen many other cases in the Bears games where DB have gone inside the pads, but did not get called for it because of the way the players fell to the ground. If there is not the backwards jerking of the offensive player, it seems it will not get called.

The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey in 2006. And it has nothing to do with how they fall to the ground, just that the player is grasped and immediately pulled to the ground.

That's not quite correct. The definition is "grabbing the shoulder pad and using leverage to propel into the back of the ballcarrier". The back of the jersey has been added, as was note above. So it it has everything to do with how the tackler falls to the ground.IIRC, Urlacher grabbed the guy and yanked him down but didn't bring the guy down by throwing down his weight from behind. The part that injures players isn;t getting grabbed from behind, it's having someone's weight pulling you backwards, often trapping the legs or seriously tweaking the knees.

It would be nice if you bold my entire statement, where I clearly stated that it involves the tackler grasping the collar and immediately pulling the runner to the ground. My statement that it has nothing to do with how they fall to the ground addresses the last statement you made that it often traps the legs. The legs do not have to be trapped for it to be a horse collar tackle.And could you explain how a tackler could pull a runner to the ground from behind without using the weight of his body (which Urlacher clearly did on that play)?

Sure, come run past me real quick, I'll grab your collar and your legs can keep going without your body following as fast because my weight is attached to your collar. You'll end up on the ground without me throwing my weight down. Or you can run by and I'll latch on and then I'll throw my body across yours. That way your body will bend in half and your knee will pop because I'll be laying on your heels while still pulling you down backwards. See the differece?Horse collaring is dangerous when the tackler throws his weight into play as leverage. Bottom line though, using the weight as leverage to pull someone down from behind is in the definition of the HC. Simply yanking someone down from behind is not a HC. And above all, RW does it consistently in the most dangerous fashion by latching on and swinging his body, consistently injuring players.

I said explain to me how a tackler could pull a runner to the ground from behind without using his weight. What you described is not pulling someone to the ground.

Well I am not the wordsmith you're looking for. There is a difference between throwing your weight on someone's back while dragging them down from behind and using your weight to get someone to the ground. I am at a loss of words to enlighten you on the difference. Urlacher's was not a HC by the official definition of the rule, he wasn't flagged and he wasn't fined. It was not as dangerous a play as Roy's HCs are. You can play semantics all you want, but watching the two plays you (or at least an objective observer) can clearly see the difference. And to your original point. I don't recall anyone ever saying he invented it or was the only one doing it. I see it get flagged weekly and when I see it in college games I wince expecting to see an injury. But Roy flagrantly, deliberately and continuously does it. So much so that he got the rule named after him, he's shortened several players' careers to various extents, and when he does it again I sincerely hope that no one (but him) gets hurt and that he gets suspended.

 

[jturner01]

Cry me a river. Has he ended a career? Like a sewing circle here. That Roy is just too mean to other players!

Yeah, that's it. Nice reading comprehension. Are you the crusty old man in the NFLST commercials?He injured enough people that they made a rule with his name on it to prevent that. Now he's found a way around it and injured another player in pretty much the same way. Injuries happen in football, we all understand that. Not the same thing here.

How are you supposed to tackle someone from behind?? The best thing is not to let them get behind you I realize that, but the rule is not a very good rule in the 1st place. Roy is a good guy, a liablity in coverage and overated, but he does not go out there to hurt anyone. All you guys that are calling for someone to hurt him next to a pile or something are worse than he is.

Do you know him personally or have other legitimate reasons as to why you think you can make a conclusion about a man's subjective intent??

He has his Fathead on his bedroom wall and, well, he just looks like a nice guy.

NO, smart ### it may not be int the realm of possiblity for you dirtbag, but I may have met the man before.

 

[redman]

Cry me a river. Has he ended a career? Like a sewing circle here. That Roy is just too mean to other players!

Yeah, that's it. Nice reading comprehension. Are you the crusty old man in the NFLST commercials?He injured enough people that they made a rule with his name on it to prevent that. Now he's found a way around it and injured another player in pretty much the same way. Injuries happen in football, we all understand that. Not the same thing here.

How are you supposed to tackle someone from behind?? The best thing is not to let them get behind you I realize that, but the rule is not a very good rule in the 1st place. Roy is a good guy, a liablity in coverage and overated, but he does not go out there to hurt anyone. All you guys that are calling for someone to hurt him next to a pile or something are worse than he is.

Do you know him personally or have other legitimate reasons as to why you think you can make a conclusion about a man's subjective intent??

He has his Fathead on his bedroom wall and, well, he just looks like a nice guy.

NO, smart ### it may not be int the realm of possiblity for you dirtbag, but I may have met the man before.

Did he tell you that on your deathbed you'll receive total consciousness?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Cry me a river. Has he ended a career? Like a sewing circle here. That Roy is just too mean to other players!

Yeah, that's it. Nice reading comprehension. Are you the crusty old man in the NFLST commercials?He injured enough people that they made a rule with his name on it to prevent that. Now he's found a way around it and injured another player in pretty much the same way. Injuries happen in football, we all understand that. Not the same thing here.

How are you supposed to tackle someone from behind?? The best thing is not to let them get behind you I realize that, but the rule is not a very good rule in the 1st place. Roy is a good guy, a liablity in coverage and overated, but he does not go out there to hurt anyone. All you guys that are calling for someone to hurt him next to a pile or something are worse than he is.

Do you know him personally or have other legitimate reasons as to why you think you can make a conclusion about a man's subjective intent??

He has his Fathead on his bedroom wall and, well, he just looks like a nice guy.

NO, smart ### it may not be int the realm of possiblity for you dirtbag, but I may have met the man before.

Do not go here again please.J

 

[thayman]

Please explain to me how a 220 lb RW can tackle a 260 lb Watson from behind without 1. grabbing him and 2. using his body weight to change his momentum without 3. bouncing off his shoulder pads.

Sean Taylor is 6'2 212lbs Donald Lee is 6'4 and 248 lbs and he managed to bring Lee down from behind this past Sunday without bouncing off his shoulder pads.

 

[Tyrion]

Please explain to me how a 220 lb RW can tackle a 260 lb Watson from behind without 1. grabbing him and 2. using his body weight to change his momentum without 3. bouncing off his shoulder pads.

Sean Taylor is 6'2 212lbs Donald Lee is 6'4 and 248 lbs and he managed to bring Lee down from behind this past Sunday without bouncing off his shoulder pads.

Come on Ben Watson is a better athletic specimen than Lee and besides Taylor probably was carrying a gun so...