RUMOR - LisFranc fracture for Alexander? (1 Viewer)

[Wilbur Wood]

Paul Charcharian on KFAN reported a RUMOR (yes, this is a link-less rumor, so take it FWIW) that Alexander actually has the hard detect Lis Franc fracture. This is where the bones come together at the bump on the top side of the foot and is bad news for repititive weight-bearing activities.

This is only a rumor and is inconsistent with Sean "jumping around" in Holmgren's office the other day. Still this bears closer watching as, if so, would have him out ~~~ 6 weeks or so.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Lisfranc info here.

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

If it's truly Lisfranc I believe we're talking about a lot more than 6 weeks, no?

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

If it's truly Lisfranc I believe we're talking about a lot more than 6 weeks, no?

I would agree with that. IIRC, 6 weeks in a cast, then rehab.

 

[Limp Ditka]

The power of prayer now has an adverse effect.

 

[Wheelhouse]

Lisfranc info here.

Isn't this what Duce Staley went through and hasn't been the same since?

 

[tecmo bo]

marquis weeks?

 

[Ariakis]

Maybe MoMo was praying harder?

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Similarities of the LisFranc injury and what we know thus far with Alexander's injury.

-Occurs on the metatarsal bones on the top of the foot

-The top of the foot may be swollen and painful.

-There may be some bruising.

-Lisfranc injuries are often difficult to see on X-rays.

 

[taz]

In other news, Cadillac Williams will play next week despite two herniated discs.

It's a rumor, folks, I'll take it much more seriously if I can find a

 

[Del Griffith]

Could there possibly be a gayer name for an injury?

Let's all say it together, with the full French accent: "Lee-frahnc!"

I can see this on a multiple choice test:

Q. What is the term "Lisfranc" associated with?

A. A disorder common to post-menopausal women

B. Last year's winner of the Lady Byng trophy

C. A foot fracture sometimes occuring in NFL running backs

I'd get it wrong on purpose.....

 

[Billy1x]

Its a 2-3 week crack as far as we know.

UNLESS the idiot doesn't wear that special shoe to keeps the crack imobile so it will heal instead of opening further. He was last seen in Holgrems office without it.

 

[WisWolvrns]

In other news, Cadillac Williams will play next week despite two herniated discs. It's a rumor, folks, I'll take it much more seriously if I can find a

But what if the link turns out to be to an ESPN article? lol

 

[Eric Stratton]

Its a 2-3 week crack as far as we know.UNLESS the idiot doesn't wear that special shoe to keeps the crack imobile so it will heal instead of opening further. He was last seen in Holgrems office without it.

Huh? Are you calling Alexander an idiot?

 

[TheLaw]

Paul Charcharian on KFAN reported a RUMOR (yes, this is a link-less rumor, so take it FWIW) that Alexander actually has the hard detect Lis Franc fracture. This is where the bones come together at the bump on the top side of the foot and is bad news for repititive weight-bearing activities.This is only a rumor and is inconsistent with Sean "jumping around" in Holmgren's office the other day. Still this bears closer watching as, if so, would have him out ~~~ 6 weeks or so.

Pure speculation by a radio host, or was he saying he got info. from a team source or an outside doctor's opinion or something??

 

[cracKer]

Could there possibly be a gayer name for an injury?

Let's all say it together, with the full French accent: "Lee-frahnc!"

I can see this on a multiple choice test:

Q. What is the term "Lisfranc" associated with?

A. A disorder common to post-menopausal women

B. Last year's winner of the Lady Byng trophy

C. A foot fracture sometimes occuring in NFL running backs

I'd get it wrong on purpose.....

Jacques Lisfranc de St. Martin Jacques Lisfranc de St. Martin (April 2 1790- May 13 1847) was a pioneering French surgeon and gynecologist. He pioneered a number of operations including removal of the rectum, lithotomy in women, and amputation of the cervix uteri. A field surgeon in Napoleon's army serving on the Russian front.

The Lisfranc joint and the Lisfranc fracture are named after him.

Jacques Lisfranc is buried in the Cimetière du Montparnasse in Paris.

 

[cracKer]

Brian Westbrook's injury last year (week 13) was diagnosed as a Lis Franc and didn't require surgery. Brian Dawkins lost 8 games in 2003 to the same injury.

If this is true about Alexander, surgery or not will be the huge question (whether he comes back this year or not). No surgery, 6-9 weeks (although he'll feel it for quite a bit longer). Surgery, he's done.

 

[Dog]

Could there possibly be a gayer name for an injury?

Let's all say it together, with the full French accent: "Lee-frahnc!"

I can see this on a multiple choice test:

Q. What is the term "Lisfranc" associated with?

A. A disorder common to post-menopausal women

B. Last year's winner of the Lady Byng trophy

C. A foot fracture sometimes occuring in NFL running backs

I'd get it wrong on purpose.....

Jacques Lisfranc de St. Martin Jacques Lisfranc de St. Martin (April 2 1790- May 13 1847) was a pioneering French surgeon and gynecologist. He pioneered a number of operations including removal of the rectum, lithotomy in women, and amputation of the cervix uteri. A field surgeon in Napoleon's army serving on the Russian front.

The Lisfranc joint and the Lisfranc fracture are named after him.

Jacques Lisfranc is buried in the Cimetière du Montparnasse in Paris.

Apparently, the Lisfranc fracture-dislocation was a common horse riding injury in Napolean's army. Lisfranc would "treat" it by chopping off the front of the foot.

 

[Sea Bass]

Could there possibly be a gayer name for an injury?

Let's all say it together, with the full French accent: "Lee-frahnc!"

I can see this on a multiple choice test:

Q. What is the term "Lisfranc" associated with?

A. A disorder common to post-menopausal women

B. Last year's winner of the Lady Byng trophy

C. A foot fracture sometimes occuring in NFL running backs

I'd get it wrong on purpose.....

Jacques Lisfranc de St. Martin Jacques Lisfranc de St. Martin (April 2 1790- May 13 1847) was a pioneering French surgeon and gynecologist. He pioneered a number of operations including removal of the rectum, lithotomy in women, and amputation of the cervix uteri. A field surgeon in Napoleon's army serving on the Russian front.

The Lisfranc joint and the Lisfranc fracture are named after him.

Jacques Lisfranc is buried in the Cimetière du Montparnasse in Paris.

Apparently, the Lisfranc fracture-dislocation was a common horse riding injury in Napolean's army. Lisfranc would "treat" it by chopping off the front of the foot.

I am hoping that the medical community has advanced some since Waterloo.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Brian Westbrook's injury last year (week 13) was diagnosed as a Lis Franc and didn't require surgery. Brian Dawkins lost 8 games in 2003 to the same injury.If this is true about Alexander, surgery or not will be the huge question (whether he comes back this year or not). No surgery, 6-9 weeks (although he'll feel it for quite a bit longer). Surgery, he's done.

Correction - Westy was diagnosed initially with this injury, but later it was determined it wasn't a Lisfranc. He could have come back in Week 16 or so, but the Eagles were out of it so there was no need.Duce Staley absolutely did have this as an Eagle and it nearly cost him his career - but we've seen the lack of production since.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

If anyone can add to this discussion as per either (A) clarification of what was said on KFAN, or (B) substantiation (unlikely at this time, I know) that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I thought they visualized a fracture to the 4th metatarsal bone in the foot. The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.Not to say he couldn't have two separate injuries, but it doesn't easily follow from earlier reports.ETA: From the AP wire article earlier this week:

The league MVP asked for and got another round of CT scans Wednesday on the previously diagnosed cracked bone in his left foot. Alexander said those tests showed the same break in the fourth metatarsal that was there on Monday.

 

[Justloveit]

If SA has a Lis Franc injury it would be extremely bad news.

Such an injury could put him out for the yr.

 

[Sea Bass]

I have yet to find a site that is even discussing this as a rumor. Looks like another example of a false alarm getting lots of discussion on FBG.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Also, FWIW, Will Carroll isn't reporting anything out of the ordinary with regard to this injury. Some like Carroll, some don't. His sources, though, are usually solid.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

It's an extremely vague reference, with little details but just aminute or so into hour 2 of the WFAN fantasy show, they make reference to "rumblings" that the injury may be worse than officially reported.

I realize this is even less definitive than the original post, but it is a link to WFAN mentioning the rumors of something worse.

 

[The Carnage]

Apparently, the Lisfranc fracture-dislocation was a common horse riding injury in Napolean's army. Lisfranc would "treat" it by chopping off the front of the foot.

I am hoping that the medical community has advanced some since Waterloo.

Depends on your HMO...

 

[taz]

It's an extremely vague reference, with little details but just aminute or so into hour 2 of the WFAN fantasy show, they make reference to "rumblings" that the injury may be worse than officially reported.

I realize this is even less definitive than the original post, but it is a link to WFAN mentioning the rumors of something worse.

Rumblings? Where did they get this from?I'd think that if there was any word that SA's injury was worse than expected, we'd read about it here first.

Unless I see something in one of the Seattle papers, quoting someone with the Seahawks ... nothing to see here.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Paul Charcharian on KFAN reported a RUMOR (yes, this is a link-less rumor, so take it FWIW) that Alexander actually has the hard detect Lis Franc fracture. This is where the bones come together at the bump on the top side of the foot and is bad news for repititive weight-bearing activities.This is only a rumor and is inconsistent with Sean "jumping around" in Holmgren's office the other day. Still this bears closer watching as, if so, would have him out ~~~ 6 weeks or so.

Pure speculation by a radio host, or was he saying he got info. from a team source or an outside doctor's opinion or something??

It was simply said along lines and "rumors are swirling that ......" I can't provide anything else, it was a sound bite in the context of a number of "NFL notes".

 

[RenegadeGM]

Given that Charchian is from Fanball, I checked if they are reporting it over there and they are not.

There is, however, a link to the KFAN show in question.

 

[taz]

More breaking news on their Podcast:

"Go pick up Curtis Martin. He comes off the PUP list in two weeks; he could be their starter in three weeks."

 

[RenegadeGM]

More breaking news on their Podcast:"Go pick up Curtis Martin. He comes off the PUP list in two weeks; he could be their starter in three weeks."

I wonder if I should grab Priest Holmes too while I'm grabbing Martin!

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone in Napoleonic France would require their rectum removed.

 

[QUEZILLA]

The power of prayer now has an adverse effect.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

In other news, Cadillac Williams will play next week despite two herniated discs.

And Marshall Faulk will broadcast on the NFL Network with ball cancer.

 

[Acme CEO]

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone in Napoleonic France would require their rectum removed.

Cure for catching teh gay?

 

[Marc Levin]

Brian Westbrook's injury last year (week 13) was diagnosed as a Lis Franc and didn't require surgery. Brian Dawkins lost 8 games in 2003 to the same injury.If this is true about Alexander, surgery or not will be the huge question (whether he comes back this year or not). No surgery, 6-9 weeks (although he'll feel it for quite a bit longer). Surgery, he's done.

Correction - Westy was diagnosed initially with this injury, but later it was determined it wasn't a Lisfranc. He could have come back in Week 16 or so, but the Eagles were out of it so there was no need.Duce Staley absolutely did have this as an Eagle and it nearly cost him his career - but we've seen the lack of production since.

I think Michael Bennett had the injury also.

 

[RenegadeGM]

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone in Napoleonic France would require their rectum removed.

I'm just wondering how you'd function after this.Maybe it would give a new meaning to the phrase "talkin' s***"...

 

[shuke]

Brian Westbrook's injury last year (week 13) was diagnosed as a Lis Franc and didn't require surgery. Brian Dawkins lost 8 games in 2003 to the same injury.If this is true about Alexander, surgery or not will be the huge question (whether he comes back this year or not). No surgery, 6-9 weeks (although he'll feel it for quite a bit longer). Surgery, he's done.

Surgery could actually mean a quicker return. If it's internally fixed with hardware, a cast isn't necessary for very long, which allows early range of motion rehab.

 

[shuke]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

 

[Sea Bass]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

 

[Jene Bramel]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Thanks shuke.I've seen a lot of conflicting information on Lisfranc injuries. I always thought the Lisfranc joint to be at the second metatarsal. I've seen sources call any of the three cuneiform-metatarsal joints Lisfranc joints and many sources don't refer to the cuboid-metatarsal joints as Lisfranc joints. I appreciate the clarification.

You'll have to excuse me -- I've not been around long enough to know what your professional background is. Sounds like you have a good background in sports medicine from the past couple of threads we've been involved in -- certainly more than my closet interest.

 

[Dog]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Thanks shuke.I've seen a lot of conflicting information on Lisfranc injuries. I always thought the Lisfranc joint to be at the second metatarsal. I've seen sources call any of the three cuneiform-metatarsal joints Lisfranc joints and many sources don't refer to the cuboid-metatarsal joints as Lisfranc joints. I appreciate the clarification.

You'll have to excuse me -- I've not been around long enough to know what your professional background is. Sounds like you have a good background in sports medicine from the past couple of threads we've been involved in -- certainly more than my closet interest.

Do you have an additional link (maybe an atlas with the anatomy plated out) that would help us (me) better understand the joints in question pictorally?

shuke is correct. The actual lisfranc ligament runs from the lateral aspect of the medial cuneiform to the medial aspect of the 2nd metatarsal base. Xrays

 

[shuke]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Thanks shuke.I've seen a lot of conflicting information on Lisfranc injuries. I always thought the Lisfranc joint to be at the second metatarsal. I've seen sources call any of the three cuneiform-metatarsal joints Lisfranc joints and many sources don't refer to the cuboid-metatarsal joints as Lisfranc joints. I appreciate the clarification.

There really doesn't seem to be a general agreement. That's why it's best just to call them the tarsometatarsal joints.

You'll have to excuse me -- I've not been around long enough to know what your professional background is. Sounds like you have a good background in sports medicine from the past couple of threads we've been involved in -- certainly more than my closet interest.

Biomedical engineer. My Master's thesis was on the TMT joints.

 

[Jene Bramel]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Thanks shuke.I've seen a lot of conflicting information on Lisfranc injuries. I always thought the Lisfranc joint to be at the second metatarsal. I've seen sources call any of the three cuneiform-metatarsal joints Lisfranc joints and many sources don't refer to the cuboid-metatarsal joints as Lisfranc joints. I appreciate the clarification.

You'll have to excuse me -- I've not been around long enough to know what your professional background is. Sounds like you have a good background in sports medicine from the past couple of threads we've been involved in -- certainly more than my closet interest.

Do you have an additional link (maybe an atlas with the anatomy plated out) that would help us (me) better understand the joints in question pictorally?

shuke is correct. The actual lisfranc ligament runs from the lateral aspect of the medial cuneiform to the medial aspect of the 2nd metatarsal base. Xrays

Yeah, that's what I always thought as well and I should've been more clear in my first post. I wasn't aware that the 4th and 5th tarsometatarsal joints were part of a "Lisfranc" complex though. So I suppose there could be some confusion about a proximal 4th metatarsal fracture and a Lisfranc injury. My understanding, though, is that these injuries are more likely to be sprains of the joint or dislocations, correct? Would either you or shuke consider an injury to the 4th metatarsal a Lisfranc injury?Just to bring both clarifications back around to SA...

 

[Bri]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Thanks shuke.I've seen a lot of conflicting information on Lisfranc injuries. I always thought the Lisfranc joint to be at the second metatarsal. I've seen sources call any of the three cuneiform-metatarsal joints Lisfranc joints and many sources don't refer to the cuboid-metatarsal joints as Lisfranc joints. I appreciate the clarification.

There really doesn't seem to be a general agreement. That's why it's best just to call them the tarsometatarsal joints.

You'll have to excuse me -- I've not been around long enough to know what your professional background is. Sounds like you have a good background in sports medicine from the past couple of threads we've been involved in -- certainly more than my closet interest.

Biomedical engineer. My Master's thesis was on the TMT joints.

thoroughly impressed and shuked at the same time, a FBG first? has that ever happenned before?

 

[Dog]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Thanks shuke.I've seen a lot of conflicting information on Lisfranc injuries. I always thought the Lisfranc joint to be at the second metatarsal. I've seen sources call any of the three cuneiform-metatarsal joints Lisfranc joints and many sources don't refer to the cuboid-metatarsal joints as Lisfranc joints. I appreciate the clarification.

You'll have to excuse me -- I've not been around long enough to know what your professional background is. Sounds like you have a good background in sports medicine from the past couple of threads we've been involved in -- certainly more than my closet interest.

Do you have an additional link (maybe an atlas with the anatomy plated out) that would help us (me) better understand the joints in question pictorally?

shuke is correct. The actual lisfranc ligament runs from the lateral aspect of the medial cuneiform to the medial aspect of the 2nd metatarsal base. Xrays

Yeah, that's what I always thought as well and I should've been more clear in my first post. I wasn't aware that the 4th and 5th tarsometatarsal joints were part of a "Lisfranc" complex though. So I suppose there could be some confusion about a proximal 4th metatarsal fracture and a Lisfranc injury. My understanding, though, is that these injuries are more likely to be sprains of the joint or dislocations, correct? Would either you or shuke consider an injury to the 4th metatarsal a Lisfranc injury?Just to bring both clarifications back around to SA...

No, I would not. The other metatarsals often go along for the ride, hence the homolateral and divergent forms.

 

[shuke]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Thanks shuke.I've seen a lot of conflicting information on Lisfranc injuries. I always thought the Lisfranc joint to be at the second metatarsal. I've seen sources call any of the three cuneiform-metatarsal joints Lisfranc joints and many sources don't refer to the cuboid-metatarsal joints as Lisfranc joints. I appreciate the clarification.

You'll have to excuse me -- I've not been around long enough to know what your professional background is. Sounds like you have a good background in sports medicine from the past couple of threads we've been involved in -- certainly more than my closet interest.

Do you have an additional link (maybe an atlas with the anatomy plated out) that would help us (me) better understand the joints in question pictorally?

shuke is correct. The actual lisfranc ligament runs from the lateral aspect of the medial cuneiform to the medial aspect of the 2nd metatarsal base. Xrays

Yeah, that's what I always thought as well and I should've been more clear in my first post. I wasn't aware that the 4th and 5th tarsometatarsal joints were part of a "Lisfranc" complex though. So I suppose there could be some confusion about a proximal 4th metatarsal fracture and a Lisfranc injury. My understanding, though, is that these injuries are more likely to be sprains of the joint or dislocations, correct? Would either you or shuke consider an injury to the 4th metatarsal a Lisfranc injury?Just to bring both clarifications back around to SA...

I would consider it a "Lisfranc" injury if the it was a comminuted fracture through the cartilage at the base of the metatarsal or if it was a fracture-dislocation. I highly doubt either of these are the case with Shaun's injury, though, just based on what has been reported.

 

[shuke]

The Lis Franc joints are any of the capsular joints between the first/second/third metatarsals and the bones behind them. The fourth metatarsal joint articulates to a different bone with the fifth metatarsal.

Actually, the Lisfranc ligament runs from the medial cuneiform to the secocond metatarsal head. However, all 5 tarsometatarsal joints are commonly referred to as the "Lisfranc joints" or "Lisfranc joint complex".

Thanks shuke.I've seen a lot of conflicting information on Lisfranc injuries. I always thought the Lisfranc joint to be at the second metatarsal. I've seen sources call any of the three cuneiform-metatarsal joints Lisfranc joints and many sources don't refer to the cuboid-metatarsal joints as Lisfranc joints. I appreciate the clarification.

There really doesn't seem to be a general agreement. That's why it's best just to call them the tarsometatarsal joints.

You'll have to excuse me -- I've not been around long enough to know what your professional background is. Sounds like you have a good background in sports medicine from the past couple of threads we've been involved in -- certainly more than my closet interest.

Biomedical engineer. My Master's thesis was on the TMT joints.

thoroughly impressed and shuked at the same time, a FBG first? has that ever happenned before?

I have no idea what you're saying right now.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Thanks to both of you.