Rumors from the Combine (1 Viewer)

[az_prof]

Doesn't this boost Jamaal Charles' draft status to first round or second round? His size is not ideal but at 205 he is bigger than alot of the other second tier guys. When you put together his speed with his size and the fact that he played in a big time conference he seems like a can't miss prospect, doesn't he? Why doesn't he get more love? Is he another Michael Bennett?

 

[Couch Potato]

Doesn't this boost Jamaal Charles' draft status to first round or second round? His size is not ideal but at 205 he is bigger than alot of the other second tier guys. When you put together his speed with his size and the fact that he played in a big time conference he seems like a can't miss prospect, doesn't he? Why doesn't he get more love? Is he another Michael Bennett?

I'm not going to suggest I know the importance of this, but from post #82:

*Texas running back Jamaal Charles had a rough go of it with the interviews. Some teams threw up film of him and asked about protections and he had a lot of trouble. This could be clear evidence that tells you if you draft him, don't expect him to do much until his second season, at least.

And, per Rotoworld in early January:

Jamaal Charles-RB - Player Jan. 2 - 3:38 pm et

Texas RB Jamaal Charles has declared for the 2008 NFL Draft.

There's no question about Charles' talent, but more was expected from him in college. He's been timed at 4.2 in the forty, finished his career on a high note, and has great growth potential at 6'1/205, but concerns about his ball security and consistency will likely keep him out of the first round.

 

[Two Deep]

McFadden Broad 10.8. Not sure, is that good?

His explosiveness is not in doubt. It's just about everything else.

Forgot He's not fast.

Little help for ya. You can't be fast without being explosive (explosive = fast). You are welcome.

Wrong, explosive = quick. It is possible to be fast (think top speed) without being quick/explosive.HTH

My scouting department tells me to always take a quick back over a pure speed back. I'll be waiting for the shuttle runs, thats where you learn things.

If 4.5 is sort of the benchmark for 40 times, what is the benchmark for shuttle? What is the minimum you are looking for and what is the range that really makes you take notice? Thanks.

6.70-6.80 3-cone and 4.08 -4.10 20 yard shuttle. These are very quick times

 

[JAA]

Here are the top 10 running back 40 times:Chris Johnson, East Carolina -- 4.24Darren McFadden, Arkansas -- 4.33Anthony Aldridge, Houston -- 4.36Jamaal Charles, Texas -- 4.38Chad Simpson, Morgan St. -- 4.42Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois -- 4.45Matthew Forte, Tulane -- 4.46Felix Jones, Arkansas -- 4.47Jalen Parmele, Toldeo -- 4.47Jonathan Stewart, Oregon -- 4.48INDIANAPOLIS -- East Carolina running back Chris Johnson posted the top 40-yard dash time of the combine thus far with a blazing 4.24 today. That was even faster than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden, who is supposed to be a top five pick.

slaton?

 

[JAA]

Doesn't this boost Jamaal Charles' draft status to first round or second round? His size is not ideal but at 205 he is bigger than alot of the other second tier guys. When you put together his speed with his size and the fact that he played in a big time conference he seems like a can't miss prospect, doesn't he? Why doesn't he get more love? Is he another Michael Bennett?

too many fumbles

 

[Texasmouth]

Charles is going to be a solid pro. He did have some fumble troubles but I think that can be fixed with a good RB coach.

He has burst like you wouldnt believe if you havent seen this guy play. He is also a tougher inside runner than people give him credit for. He is one of those guys who can take any carry to the house.

This is a great thread by the way. I love this time of year.

 

[Native]

Here are the top 10 running back 40 times:Chris Johnson, East Carolina -- 4.24Darren McFadden, Arkansas -- 4.33Anthony Aldridge, Houston -- 4.36Jamaal Charles, Texas -- 4.38Chad Simpson, Morgan St. -- 4.42Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois -- 4.45Matthew Forte, Tulane -- 4.46Felix Jones, Arkansas -- 4.47Jalen Parmele, Toldeo -- 4.47Jonathan Stewart, Oregon -- 4.48INDIANAPOLIS -- East Carolina running back Chris Johnson posted the top 40-yard dash time of the combine thus far with a blazing 4.24 today. That was even faster than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden, who is supposed to be a top five pick.

slaton?

Rice ran a 4.44....?

 

[coolnerd]

Doesn't this boost Jamaal Charles' draft status to first round or second round? His size is not ideal but at 205 he is bigger than alot of the other second tier guys. When you put together his speed with his size and the fact that he played in a big time conference he seems like a can't miss prospect, doesn't he? Why doesn't he get more love? Is he another Michael Bennett?

I'm not going to suggest I know the importance of this, but from post #82:

*Texas running back Jamaal Charles had a rough go of it with the interviews. Some teams threw up film of him and asked about protections and he had a lot of trouble. This could be clear evidence that tells you if you draft him, don't expect him to do much until his second season, at least.

And, per Rotoworld in early January:

Jamaal Charles-RB - Player Jan. 2 - 3:38 pm et

Texas RB Jamaal Charles has declared for the 2008 NFL Draft.

There's no question about Charles' talent, but more was expected from him in college. He's been timed at 4.2 in the forty, finished his career on a high note, and has great growth potential at 6'1/205, but concerns about his ball security and consistency will likely keep him out of the first round.

Just a general rule, if you considered a really fast guy and run a fast time, it does not boost your stock. You are doing what you are expected to do. it is when you go Mario Manningham i.e. a guy who plays really fast and runs slow that something could change in the minds of evaluators.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Here are the top 10 running back 40 times:Chris Johnson, East Carolina -- 4.24Darren McFadden, Arkansas -- 4.33Anthony Aldridge, Houston -- 4.36Jamaal Charles, Texas -- 4.38Chad Simpson, Morgan St. -- 4.42Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois -- 4.45Matthew Forte, Tulane -- 4.46Felix Jones, Arkansas -- 4.47Jalen Parmele, Toldeo -- 4.47Jonathan Stewart, Oregon -- 4.48INDIANAPOLIS -- East Carolina running back Chris Johnson posted the top 40-yard dash time of the combine thus far with a blazing 4.24 today. That was even faster than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden, who is supposed to be a top five pick.

slaton?

Believe he ran a 4.4

 

[ImTheScientist]

Doesn't this boost Jamaal Charles' draft status to first round or second round? His size is not ideal but at 205 he is bigger than alot of the other second tier guys. When you put together his speed with his size and the fact that he played in a big time conference he seems like a can't miss prospect, doesn't he? Why doesn't he get more love? Is he another Michael Bennett?

I'm not going to suggest I know the importance of this, but from post #82:

*Texas running back Jamaal Charles had a rough go of it with the interviews. Some teams threw up film of him and asked about protections and he had a lot of trouble. This could be clear evidence that tells you if you draft him, don't expect him to do much until his second season, at least.

And, per Rotoworld in early January:

Jamaal Charles-RB - Player Jan. 2 - 3:38 pm et

Texas RB Jamaal Charles has declared for the 2008 NFL Draft.

There's no question about Charles' talent, but more was expected from him in college. He's been timed at 4.2 in the forty, finished his career on a high note, and has great growth potential at 6'1/205, but concerns about his ball security and consistency will likely keep him out of the first round.

Just a general rule, if you considered a really fast guy and run a fast time, it does not boost your stock. You are doing what you are expected to do. it is when you go Mario Manningham i.e. a guy who plays really fast and runs slow that something could change in the minds of evaluators.

 

[Riffraff]

Here are the top 10 running back 40 times:Chris Johnson, East Carolina -- 4.24Darren McFadden, Arkansas -- 4.33Anthony Aldridge, Houston -- 4.36Jamaal Charles, Texas -- 4.38Chad Simpson, Morgan St. -- 4.42Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois -- 4.45Matthew Forte, Tulane -- 4.46Felix Jones, Arkansas -- 4.47Jalen Parmele, Toldeo -- 4.47Jonathan Stewart, Oregon -- 4.48INDIANAPOLIS -- East Carolina running back Chris Johnson posted the top 40-yard dash time of the combine thus far with a blazing 4.24 today. That was even faster than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden, who is supposed to be a top five pick.

Watching the video of the 40s being timed, this is an incomplete list. All the guys they had in the video were in the 4.4x range or better. But not all the names are listed here. Rice, Slaton, Smith, etc.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

McFadden Broad 10.8. Not sure, is that good?

His explosiveness is not in doubt. It's just about everything else.

Forgot He's not fast.

Little help for ya. You can't be fast without being explosive (explosive = fast). You are welcome.

Wrong, explosive = quick. It is possible to be fast (think top speed) without being quick/explosive.HTH

My scouting department tells me to always take a quick back over a pure speed back. I'll be waiting for the shuttle runs, thats where you learn things.

WHo are the backs in the last 3-5 years that have run disappointing 40 times but 4.1 shuttles? My guess is not many, compared to those that ran good 40s. Peterson's shuttle was about the same as his 40. Addai did not have a great short shuttle.

 

[RUSF18]

Here are the top 10 running back 40 times:Chris Johnson, East Carolina -- 4.24Darren McFadden, Arkansas -- 4.33Anthony Aldridge, Houston -- 4.36Jamaal Charles, Texas -- 4.38Chad Simpson, Morgan St. -- 4.42Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois -- 4.45Matthew Forte, Tulane -- 4.46Felix Jones, Arkansas -- 4.47Jalen Parmele, Toldeo -- 4.47Jonathan Stewart, Oregon -- 4.48INDIANAPOLIS -- East Carolina running back Chris Johnson posted the top 40-yard dash time of the combine thus far with a blazing 4.24 today. That was even faster than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden, who is supposed to be a top five pick.

Watching the video of the 40s being timed, this is an incomplete list. All the guys they had in the video were in the 4.4x range or better. But not all the names are listed here. Rice, Slaton, Smith, etc.

The NFL Network times were unofficial. These are the top 10 official times from the NFL.

 

[redman]

Here are the top 10 running back 40 times:Chris Johnson, East Carolina -- 4.24Darren McFadden, Arkansas -- 4.33Anthony Aldridge, Houston -- 4.36Jamaal Charles, Texas -- 4.38Chad Simpson, Morgan St. -- 4.42Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois -- 4.45Matthew Forte, Tulane -- 4.46Felix Jones, Arkansas -- 4.47Jalen Parmele, Toldeo -- 4.47Jonathan Stewart, Oregon -- 4.48INDIANAPOLIS -- East Carolina running back Chris Johnson posted the top 40-yard dash time of the combine thus far with a blazing 4.24 today. That was even faster than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden, who is supposed to be a top five pick.

slaton?

Slaton hasn't decided for sure whether he wants to run at the combine or not.

 

[Couch Potato]

Doesn't this boost Jamaal Charles' draft status to first round or second round? His size is not ideal but at 205 he is bigger than alot of the other second tier guys. When you put together his speed with his size and the fact that he played in a big time conference he seems like a can't miss prospect, doesn't he? Why doesn't he get more love? Is he another Michael Bennett?

I'm not going to suggest I know the importance of this, but from post #82:

*Texas running back Jamaal Charles had a rough go of it with the interviews. Some teams threw up film of him and asked about protections and he had a lot of trouble. This could be clear evidence that tells you if you draft him, don't expect him to do much until his second season, at least.

And, per Rotoworld in early January:

Jamaal Charles-RB - Player Jan. 2 - 3:38 pm et

Texas RB Jamaal Charles has declared for the 2008 NFL Draft.

There's no question about Charles' talent, but more was expected from him in college. He's been timed at 4.2 in the forty, finished his career on a high note, and has great growth potential at 6'1/205, but concerns about his ball security and consistency will likely keep him out of the first round.

Just a general rule, if you considered a really fast guy and run a fast time, it does not boost your stock. You are doing what you are expected to do. it is when you go Mario Manningham i.e. a guy who plays really fast and runs slow that something could change in the minds of evaluators.

Who was owned? I simply quoted a couple of sources of information (from jeter23's rumors post and from Rotoworld) on Charles. I gave no opinion on anything. Owned? Weird post.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

he is referring to az_prof, who you were replying to.

 

[Bob Henry]

Jeter, just wanted to say thanks for posting these rumors/notes/comments. Great stuff. Keep 'em coming.

 

[jeter23]

Jeter, just wanted to say thanks for posting these rumors/notes/comments. Great stuff. Keep 'em coming.

No trouble, just a cut/paste for me. When I read them, knew I had to share. As they are posted, I will update this thread.

 

[Hawkeyeskin]

Jeter, just wanted to say thanks for posting these rumors/notes/comments. Great stuff. Keep 'em coming.

<_<

 

[domvin]

great thread, and enjoyed the bouncing around.

Turner: i think Seattle signs him. Last year for holmgren,so they'll give it a little extra on the cap, alexander being cut rumors, holmgren wanting a multi-dimensional back

saw some michael Bush hype, IMO, two big things working against him:

1.He had a tough injury, which required multiple surgeries

2. Lazy work ethic. If you saw him without pads, he has a soft upper body..... Not good when you are trying to come back from multiple surgeries. If he was anywhere close, I don't think fargas gets inked for 3 years.

don't know kiffins philosophy at rb yet either, but my gut says drafting the kid in the 4th round was not much of a gamble, considering they had multiple picks in the 4th round last year.

just my 2 cents...

 

[jeter23]

*The name of Arizona Cardinals wide receiver Bryant Johnson, an unrestricted free agent, keeps popping up in two places here -- Chicago and Tampa Bay

*Linebacker Ian Gold is being shopped by the Denver Broncos and New Orleans and Cincinnati seem to be very interested

*Chicago is pursuing the tampering against San Francisco, as they are suspecting the 49ers already have a deal with free agent linebacker/Bay Area native Lance Briggs.

*We hear the Buffalo Bills are looking for a 4th pick in exchange for struggling, but still young quarterback J.P. Losman. Kansas City, Atlanta, San Francisco and Miami are all talking with them. However, we doubt he will bring any more than a 5th or 6th rounder

*The Bills are close to $40 million under the cap, but many in Buffalo expect them to be quiet when free agency starts. Our source thinks that they will be looking at guys like Ben Troupe and Earnest Wilford and other lower tier free agents who wont eat up too much signing bonus money. They really need a Pro Bowl caliber linebacker like Lance Briggs, but they wont go to battle with San Francisco for him.

*Word out of Indy is Baltimore quarback Steve McNair is recovering nicely from shoulder surgery. He is way ahead of schedule and his agent Bus Cook, who is in Indianapolis, thinks he will be the opening day starter for the Ravens.

*We've been told Cleveland could meet the parameters of a long term deal to sign Patriots free agent cornerback Asante Samuel....They have no first rounder, so they can look at him as their first rounder and will pay up handsomely to reunite him with Romeo Crennel.

 

[Two Deep]

McFadden Broad 10.8. Not sure, is that good?

His explosiveness is not in doubt. It's just about everything else.

Forgot He's not fast.

Little help for ya. You can't be fast without being explosive (explosive = fast). You are welcome.

Wrong, explosive = quick. It is possible to be fast (think top speed) without being quick/explosive.HTH

My scouting department tells me to always take a quick back over a pure speed back. I'll be waiting for the shuttle runs, thats where you learn things.

WHo are the backs in the last 3-5 years that have run disappointing 40 times but 4.1 shuttles? My guess is not many, compared to those that ran good 40s. Peterson's shuttle was about the same as his 40. Addai did not have a great short shuttle.

Ahmad Bradshaw last year. I think his 40 was around 4.6 and had a 4.10 shuttle. He is a classic example of quickness vs. speed.

 

[Kirby]

*The Deep targets are few and far between in this draft.....Malcolm Kelly of Oklahoma (prototype west coast offense Z WR), Adrian Arrington and Mario Manningham of Michigan and Harry Douglas of Louisville.....Nebraska's Maruice Purify also looks to be an ideal west coast offense wide receiver, but his off field issues may knock him down and make him a value. San Francisco seems very interested in him. Most expect these guys to also run well....The speed burners are DeSean Jackson (small frame), Donnie Avery of Houston (who wont run) and Darius Reynaud. These guys project more as special teams ace's in their rookie year.

Him not knowing how to run the 40 at all doesn't mean he isn't a deep threat. After he got out of the gate you could tell he was fast... it just looked like he had never practiced the 40... ever. You'd think you would practice that if you were invited to the combine. He still can't catch though.

 

[Liquid Tension]

*Mike Turner's (Chargers tailback) people are not happy here in Indy. Apparently his agent has been told precisely what I expected -- the draft is loaded with tailbacks and teams in dire need at running back will draft one. The one team that might be his buyer is New Orleans, because Deuce's recovery has hit some snags, according to their trainers. The Steelers like Turner alot, but they don't like the numbers he is looking for. Arizona, reportedly, loves him but can't afford to even buy groceries on their cap. They just had to cut three players to get a little wiggle room.

Just one opinion, but as I see it Chicago should and will be Turner's landing place. We'll see.

my gut has been saying Chicago for a while now - he's just too perfect for their style and mentality.

Mine too, this makes perfect sense to me.

What about Benson? lol.... The run problems in Chicago rise much higher than Cedric Benson. They go from the Oline play, to Qb play, to having an adequate blocking FB. Turner is a local kid, but his play did drop off at the end of the year and he had some injuries just like benson.

It says right in the initial post that the Bears are shopping Benson. If you're going to believe or believe that Turner can be a Bear, then it's not hard to believe Benson wouldn't be there.

I think the Bears will get so little for him, they might as well keep him and hope for the best. How much will teams give up for an unproductive, overpaid, injury concerns, headcase RB?

My thinking is that the Bears feel that putting Benson as the backup is more trouble than it is worth and they woudl rather get a 6th round pick for him from a team like "Houston" and let him compete.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

*We hear the Buffalo Bills are looking for a 4th pick in exchange for struggling, but still young quarterback J.P. Losman. Kansas City, Atlanta, San Francisco and Miami are all talking with them. However, we doubt he will bring any more than a 5th or 6th rounder*The Bills are close to $40 million under the cap, but many in Buffalo expect them to be quiet when free agency starts. Our source thinks that they will be looking at guys like Ben Troupe and Earnest Wilford and other lower tier free agents who wont eat up too much signing bonus money. They really need a Pro Bowl caliber linebacker like Lance Briggs, but they wont go to battle with San Francisco for him.

Unfortunately all true.

 

[BoltBacker]

*We hear the Buffalo Bills are looking for a 4th pick in exchange for struggling, but still young quarterback J.P. Losman. Kansas City, Atlanta, San Francisco and Miami are all talking with them. However, we doubt he will bring any more than a 5th or 6th rounder*The Bills are close to $40 million under the cap, but many in Buffalo expect them to be quiet when free agency starts. Our source thinks that they will be looking at guys like Ben Troupe and Earnest Wilford and other lower tier free agents who wont eat up too much signing bonus money. They really need a Pro Bowl caliber linebacker like Lance Briggs, but they wont go to battle with San Francisco for him.

Unfortunately all true.

If SD gets a 4th in compensation for Donnie Edwards and a RB they like isn't there in the 4th(to replace Turner as LT's backup) I wouldn't mind seeing SD replacing Volek with Losman. That way if there are complications with Rivers knee they'd be covered. I think every team needs to quality QB's and I think Losman is a buy low right now.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

*We hear the Buffalo Bills are looking for a 4th pick in exchange for struggling, but still young quarterback J.P. Losman. Kansas City, Atlanta, San Francisco and Miami are all talking with them. However, we doubt he will bring any more than a 5th or 6th rounder*The Bills are close to $40 million under the cap, but many in Buffalo expect them to be quiet when free agency starts. Our source thinks that they will be looking at guys like Ben Troupe and Earnest Wilford and other lower tier free agents who wont eat up too much signing bonus money. They really need a Pro Bowl caliber linebacker like Lance Briggs, but they wont go to battle with San Francisco for him.

Unfortunately all true.

If SD gets a 4th in compensation for Donnie Edwards and a RB they like isn't there in the 4th(to replace Turner as LT's backup) I wouldn't mind seeing SD replacing Volek with Losman. That way if there are complications with Rivers knee they'd be covered. I think every team needs to quality QB's and I think Losman is a buy low right now.

He has an insanely low contract right now so I wouldn't mind the Bills holding on to him for the last year of his contract, but I would be happy with a 4th. If all we can get is a 5th then we would be fools to trade him. But I think the Bills should bring in an old vet to help out Edwards. He could really use someone other than JP to mentor him.

 

[JAA]

Here are the top 10 running back 40 times:Chris Johnson, East Carolina -- 4.24Darren McFadden, Arkansas -- 4.33Anthony Aldridge, Houston -- 4.36Jamaal Charles, Texas -- 4.38Chad Simpson, Morgan St. -- 4.42Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois -- 4.45Matthew Forte, Tulane -- 4.46Felix Jones, Arkansas -- 4.47Jalen Parmele, Toldeo -- 4.47Jonathan Stewart, Oregon -- 4.48INDIANAPOLIS -- East Carolina running back Chris Johnson posted the top 40-yard dash time of the combine thus far with a blazing 4.24 today. That was even faster than Arkansas running back Darren McFadden, who is supposed to be a top five pick.

slaton?

Believe he ran a 4.4

didwhy not in the list?

 

[redman]

*We hear the Buffalo Bills are looking for a 4th pick in exchange for struggling, but still young quarterback J.P. Losman. Kansas City, Atlanta, San Francisco and Miami are all talking with them. However, we doubt he will bring any more than a 5th or 6th rounder*The Bills are close to $40 million under the cap, but many in Buffalo expect them to be quiet when free agency starts. Our source thinks that they will be looking at guys like Ben Troupe and Earnest Wilford and other lower tier free agents who wont eat up too much signing bonus money. They really need a Pro Bowl caliber linebacker like Lance Briggs, but they wont go to battle with San Francisco for him.

Unfortunately all true.

If SD gets a 4th in compensation for Donnie Edwards and a RB they like isn't there in the 4th(to replace Turner as LT's backup) I wouldn't mind seeing SD replacing Volek with Losman. That way if there are complications with Rivers knee they'd be covered. I think every team needs to quality QB's and I think Losman is a buy low right now.

He has an insanely low contract right now so I wouldn't mind the Bills holding on to him for the last year of his contract, but I would be happy with a 4th. If all we can get is a 5th then we would be fools to trade him. But I think the Bills should bring in an old vet to help out Edwards. He could really use someone other than JP to mentor him.

Do you expect Losman to stick around after his contract expires, such that the old argument about how you should "at least get something for him" is a moot point?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Dang. I'm jonesing to put up a new mock, but with all the fluidity in free agency and trade possibilities, it would be a waste of time right now.

Can't believe the Lions are thinking of trading Roy Williams for a 2nd rounder. I think it's dumb on one hand but smart on the other.

 

[BoltBacker]

Can't believe the Lions are thinking of trading Roy Williams for a 2nd rounder. I think it's dumb on one hand but smart on the other.

I think he's their best player but it's hard to know what contract negotiations were behind closed doors. A 2nd seemed too low to me but I really think the price of WR's is about to explode with all the money floating around. Even franchising WR's may become a LOT more expensive very soon if ARZ is forced to give Fitz another sweetheart deal to take the handcuffs off ARZ this off season. Moss is going to get paid a lot. All the other FA WR's are going to get paid a lot this year. If DET can't extend Roy now they may as well deal him.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

This isn't from Draftdaddy, but rather from NFLDraftscout (which is a terrific site as well). Specifically I'm referring to the part about Joe Flacco's (good) character. I can't copy/paste from the site, so you'll have to click the link.

I love this kind of character too.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Can't believe the Lions are thinking of trading Roy Williams for a 2nd rounder. I think it's dumb on one hand but smart on the other.

I think he's their best player but it's hard to know what contract negotiations were behind closed doors. A 2nd seemed too low to me but I really think the price of WR's is about to explode with all the money floating around. Even franchising WR's may become a LOT more expensive very soon if ARZ is forced to give Fitz another sweetheart deal to take the handcuffs off ARZ this off season. Moss is going to get paid a lot. All the other FA WR's are going to get paid a lot this year. If DET can't extend Roy now they may as well deal him.

If they are willing to trade intra-division, I would think it would be a no-brainer for the Vikings to pull the trigger on that one.

 

[BoltBacker]

Can't believe the Lions are thinking of trading Roy Williams for a 2nd rounder. I think it's dumb on one hand but smart on the other.

I think he's their best player but it's hard to know what contract negotiations were behind closed doors. A 2nd seemed too low to me but I really think the price of WR's is about to explode with all the money floating around. Even franchising WR's may become a LOT more expensive very soon if ARZ is forced to give Fitz another sweetheart deal to take the handcuffs off ARZ this off season. Moss is going to get paid a lot. All the other FA WR's are going to get paid a lot this year. If DET can't extend Roy now they may as well deal him.

If they are willing to trade intra-division, I would think it would be a no-brainer for the Vikings to pull the trigger on that one.

TB seems to be the team hot and bothered to add a big time receiver and they have the $ to extend him. I think you could only trade for him if you have a deal in place. That would take a lot of $.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Can't believe the Lions are thinking of trading Roy Williams for a 2nd rounder. I think it's dumb on one hand but smart on the other.

I think he's their best player but it's hard to know what contract negotiations were behind closed doors. A 2nd seemed too low to me but I really think the price of WR's is about to explode with all the money floating around. Even franchising WR's may become a LOT more expensive very soon if ARZ is forced to give Fitz another sweetheart deal to take the handcuffs off ARZ this off season. Moss is going to get paid a lot. All the other FA WR's are going to get paid a lot this year. If DET can't extend Roy now they may as well deal him.

If they are willing to trade intra-division, I would think it would be a no-brainer for the Vikings to pull the trigger on that one.

TB seems to be the team hot and bothered to add a big time receiver and they have the $ to extend him. I think you could only trade for him if you have a deal in place. That would take a lot of $.

Lots of teams have lots of money. The Vikings are rumored to be $30 Million under the cap too. Did anyone see what Quintin Groves ran? I haven't found it yet.Vernon Gholston threw up 37 reps!?

 

[MAC_32]

Charles is going to be a solid pro. He did have some fumble troubles but I think that can be fixed with a good RB coach. He has burst like you wouldnt believe if you havent seen this guy play. He is also a tougher inside runner than people give him credit for. He is one of those guys who can take any carry to the house.

I don't know what you've seen out of him that suggests he is a tough inside runner, but I strongly disagree with that assessment. He runs off balance, is easily knocked down - lacks toughness, and fumbles too much. Not to mention the liability in the passing game.

 

[BigJim®]

Hmmm... wonder if Arizona could just bite the bullet and let Fitz walk, and replace him by obtaining Roy for a 2nd? Probably totally unrealistic, and of course they'd still need to convince him Arizona is as good as being home in Texas for 2009 to avoid losing him as a FA. However, they don't seem to have many options right now.

 

[ditka85]

While it's fun to speculate, let's remember these are RUMORS people. Personally, I find half of them hard to believe.

 

[BigJim®]

Can't believe the Lions are thinking of trading Roy Williams for a 2nd rounder. I think it's dumb on one hand but smart on the other.

I think he's their best player but it's hard to know what contract negotiations were behind closed doors. A 2nd seemed too low to me but I really think the price of WR's is about to explode with all the money floating around. Even franchising WR's may become a LOT more expensive very soon if ARZ is forced to give Fitz another sweetheart deal to take the handcuffs off ARZ this off season. Moss is going to get paid a lot. All the other FA WR's are going to get paid a lot this year. If DET can't extend Roy now they may as well deal him.

If they are willing to trade intra-division, I would think it would be a no-brainer for the Vikings to pull the trigger on that one.

TB seems to be the team hot and bothered to add a big time receiver and they have the $ to extend him. I think you could only trade for him if you have a deal in place. That would take a lot of $.

Well, it's not just money. I don't know how much weight to give the rumor that he plans to hook up with a Texas team to play closer to home, but it would make little sense for any team to trade a 2nd for a 1-year rental. They'd have to be very sure he'll stay longterm.

 

[BoltBacker]

Can't believe the Lions are thinking of trading Roy Williams for a 2nd rounder. I think it's dumb on one hand but smart on the other.

I think he's their best player but it's hard to know what contract negotiations were behind closed doors. A 2nd seemed too low to me but I really think the price of WR's is about to explode with all the money floating around. Even franchising WR's may become a LOT more expensive very soon if ARZ is forced to give Fitz another sweetheart deal to take the handcuffs off ARZ this off season. Moss is going to get paid a lot. All the other FA WR's are going to get paid a lot this year. If DET can't extend Roy now they may as well deal him.

If they are willing to trade intra-division, I would think it would be a no-brainer for the Vikings to pull the trigger on that one.

TB seems to be the team hot and bothered to add a big time receiver and they have the $ to extend him. I think you could only trade for him if you have a deal in place. That would take a lot of $.

Lots of teams have lots of money. The Vikings are rumored to be $30 Million under the cap too. Did anyone see what Quintin Groves ran? I haven't found it yet.Vernon Gholston threw up 37 reps!?

- True with regard to lots of teams having cap space but I thought a DET homer suggested he was going to sign with some southern teams if he left DET(I think NO/HOU were among the teams mentioned). I'm a yankee(so my GF from GA tells me) so I have no idea if TB is considered part of the "south" or not and maybe he'd be more apt to sign a long term deal to play there.

 

[BoltBacker]

While it's fun to speculate, let's remember these are RUMORS people. Personally, I find half of them hard to believe.

Yes and no. The ARZ/Fitz contract situation isn't a rumor. It's a fact. And will force tough decisions to be made by the organization as things stand right now.

 

[redman]

Charles is going to be a solid pro. He did have some fumble troubles but I think that can be fixed with a good RB coach.

He has burst like you wouldnt believe if you havent seen this guy play. He is also a tougher inside runner than people give him credit for. He is one of those guys who can take any carry to the house.

I don't know what you've seen out of him that suggests he is a tough inside runner, but I strongly disagree with that assessment. He runs off balance, is easily knocked down - lacks toughness, and fumbles too much. Not to mention the liability in the passing game.

Well, other than that he's a tough inside runner.

 

[Andy Herron]

McFadden Broad 10.8. Not sure, is that good?

His explosiveness is not in doubt. It's just about everything else.

Forgot He's not fast.

Little help for ya. You can't be fast without being explosive (explosive = fast). You are welcome.

Wrong, explosive = quick. It is possible to be fast (think top speed) without being quick/explosive.HTH

My scouting department tells me to always take a quick back over a pure speed back. I'll be waiting for the shuttle runs, thats where you learn things.

Agreed. I'll take vision and cutting ability over pure straight line speed any day. Think "Emmitt Smith", highly regarded as "too slow" coming out of the combine. I think he ran a 4.6. Then he ran to the NFL rushing record. Straight line speed serves you much better on the outside (WR) than it does on the inside (RB).

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I must have been getting ahead of myself. When do the defensive guys run their 40's?

And I don't think Mike Hart's time affects him as much as people think. I saw and read that he's a pretty good pass protector too and that's money for a potential NFL RB.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

After poking around the innerwebs, I found some times. I got these from some random blog so we'll have to wait for the official times:

Auburn defensive end Quentin Groves posted the best 40-yard dash time among the first defensve line group. He clocked in at 4.50 seconds.The player who may have been the most disappointing is Ohio States’s Vernon Gholston, who only managed to run a 4.57. That despite talk that he may run as high as the 4.4’s.Miami (FL) defensive end Calais Campbell continues to disappoint, as he posted a 5.04.All times are UNOFFICIALOther times from this morning:Cliff Avril - 4.56Kentwan Balmer - 5.30Kroy Biermann - 4.76Red Bryant - 4.97Joe Clermond - 5.09Shawn Crable - 4.56Angelo Craig - 5.00Bruce Davis - 4.77Johnny Dingle - 4.84Marcus Dixon - 5.26Lionel Dotson - 5.36Chris Ellis - 4.75Sedrick Ellis - 5.21Curtis Gatewood - 4.69Jeremy Geathers - 4.88Wallace Gilberry - 4.85Letroy Guion - 5.23Chris Harrington - 4.81Marcus Harrison - 4.96

I think it's laughable to characterize Gholston's 4.57 as "disappointing". Groves is really moving up the boards. Campbell is going to fall.

 

[Texasmouth]

Charles is going to be a solid pro. He did have some fumble troubles but I think that can be fixed with a good RB coach. He has burst like you wouldnt believe if you havent seen this guy play. He is also a tougher inside runner than people give him credit for. He is one of those guys who can take any carry to the house.

I don't know what you've seen out of him that suggests he is a tough inside runner, but I strongly disagree with that assessment. He runs off balance, is easily knocked down - lacks toughness, and fumbles too much. Not to mention the liability in the passing game.

Maybe you were watching a different game than me. The game when he had 200+ yards in particular, he hit the hole hard and blasted up the middle several times. I watched every game this guy has played he can run tough inside. Texas didnt have the best offensive line this year, he did good in spite of that. Guess we will have to agree to disagree. He ran solid all year long. I never argued the fumbling problem.

 

[Workhorse]

I think it's laughable to characterize Gholston's 4.57 as "disappointing".

I'll take a 4.57 with his strength any day of the week. The dude is a freak.

 

[Liquid Tension]

McFadden Broad 10.8. Not sure, is that good?

His explosiveness is not in doubt. It's just about everything else.

Forgot He's not fast.

Little help for ya. You can't be fast without being explosive (explosive = fast). You are welcome.

Wrong, explosive = quick. It is possible to be fast (think top speed) without being quick/explosive.HTH

Explosive could also mean one explosive step which may seem different than quickness (Darren Sproles like)For example, when healthy I thought Caddy Williams was explosive the way he ran...the step before impact he got a good explosive last step, but he wasn't extremely quick or fast.Just say what you mean and describe it

 

[kethnaab]

TO, Witten and Roy - might cause clubhouse problems, but Romo would become Peyton and Brady's equal in FFAJ, Daniels, and Roy - Colston, Bush, and Roy - He'd be the #2 or 3 option on any of those teams, but what a boon for the QB.

1) TO + Witten + Roy = the first time in history I'd consider taking a QB in the first round2) AJ + Daniels + Roy = Schaub becoming QB1 material3) Colston, Bush and Roy = Brees moving up to Manning/Brady territory

 

[MAC_32]

Charles is going to be a solid pro. He did have some fumble troubles but I think that can be fixed with a good RB coach. He has burst like you wouldnt believe if you havent seen this guy play. He is also a tougher inside runner than people give him credit for. He is one of those guys who can take any carry to the house.

I don't know what you've seen out of him that suggests he is a tough inside runner, but I strongly disagree with that assessment. He runs off balance, is easily knocked down - lacks toughness, and fumbles too much. Not to mention the liability in the passing game.

Maybe you were watching a different game than me. The game when he had 200+ yards in particular, he hit the hole hard and blasted up the middle several times. I watched every game this guy has played he can run tough inside. Texas didnt have the best offensive line this year, he did good in spite of that. Guess we will have to agree to disagree. He ran solid all year long. I never argued the fumbling problem.

When he has a hole he is explosive, I'm not arguing that. My problem is he won't see holes like that in the NFL. Tatum Bell suffered a similar fate. Both lack balance and go down too easy on first contact. If you'll watch his big gainers almost all of them were on plays that involved little-to-no contact. That's not going to happen in the NFL. If he were to be drafted as a CoP back with plans of not inserting him into the lineup until he develops as a pass blocker/proves he can catch the ball consistently and effectively I'd be fine with him. I don't think he's going to be drafted for that purpose though, in which case he is doomed for failure.