"Sabermetric" Fantasy Football? (1 Viewer)

[J. Cyrus]

Hey everyone.. I've been more of an longtime lurker and avid fan of FBG than an active poster here in the forums, but I've had something on my mind for a couple of years now and I think I'll get some very valuable input on it here in The Shark Pool.

**This is not a league recruitment thread. While I do have a league set up with these parameters, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the ideology and concepts behind the format (and any variations of it that may be more suited to the goal of the exercise), not to advertise for a league opening.**

That being said, here's an overview of how the league works and what it's aims are:

QBs...

...as individual players can score more points than any player at any other position can, and will in many cases be the most impactful single player in your lineup

...are rewarded for quality as well as quantity, meaning that "Completion %", "INTs" and "Yds per Attempt" matter quite a bit

RBs...

...will probably be the core of a few successful teams in this league

...are rewarded for quality as well as quantity, meaning that in addition to "Total Yds", "Yds per Carry" now matters as well

WRs and TEs...

...score a bit more fantasy points per yard than RBs in an effort to account for their residual positive effects on the passing game and offense as a whole

...are rewarded slightly for efficiency (i.e. "Yds per Catch"), but not nearly as much as QBs and RBs are. This is because my research determined that "Yds per Catch" isn't necessarily linked to WR skill/productivity in many cases (I'd elaborate but I promised this wouldn't be a novel lol)

IDPs...

...actually matter (go figure)

...the best in the game will score as much as upper tier RBs/WRs/TEs

OVERALL THOUGHTS:

- This scoring represents my absolute best effort to construct an accurate, intuitive and user-friendly scoring system. It should align with our instincts regarding player value, that being that generally, the best, most talented players will do the best. Worrying about non-skill-related external factors has been minimized to the extent possible.

Here are the top 50 offensive players in the format based on 2010's numbers:

Philip Rivers

(SD - QB)634.00

Aaron Rodgers

(GB - QB)609.40

Tom Brady

(NE - QB)608.00

Peyton Manning

(Ind - QB)551.50

Drew Brees

(NO - QB)550.82

Michael Vick

(Phi - QB)495.60

Arian Foster

(Hou - RB)434.57

Matt Schaub

(Hou - QB)432.50

Josh Freeman

(TB - QB)392.70

Ben Roethlisberger

(Pit - QB)361.00

Jamaal Charles

(KC - RB)360.25

Joe Flacco

(Bal - QB)351.40

Matt Ryan

(Atl - QB)345.50

Eli Manning

(NYG - QB)338.90

David Garrard

(Jac - QB)328.55

Adrian Peterson

(Min - RB)312.73

LeSean McCoy

(Phi - RB)302.87

Brandon Lloyd

(Den - WR)297.63

Darren McFadden

(Oak - RB)294.55

Roddy White

(Atl - WR)287.75

Chris Johnson

(Ten - RB)278.43

Ray Rice

(Bal - RB)276.87

Matt Forte

(Chi - RB)276.32

Dwayne Bowe

(KC - WR)274.47

Jon Kitna

(Dal - QB)272.75

Greg Jennings

(GB - WR)270.98

Peyton Hillis

(Cle - RB)269.75

Mike Wallace

(Pit - WR)268.25

Carson Palmer

(Cin - QB)265.00

Jay Cutler

(Chi - QB)264.30

Kyle Orton

(Den - QB)260.60

Calvin Johnson

(Det - WR)257.97

Maurice Jones-Drew

(Jac - RB)255.43

Matt Cassel

(KC - QB)253.95

Rashard Mendenhall

(Pit - RB)250.78

Michael Turner

(Atl - RB)248.72

Ahmad Bradshaw

(NYG - RB)246.88

Reggie Wayne

(Ind - WR)246.23

Andre Johnson

(Hou - WR)242.57

Tony Romo

(Dal - QB)241.33

Miles Austin

(Dal - WR)237.35

Steven Jackson

(StL - RB)235.98

Hakeem Nicks

(NYG - WR)234.21

DeSean Jackson

(Phi - WR)233.42

BenJarvus Green-Ellis

(NE - RB)228.47

Stevie Johnson

(Buf - WR)228.13

Larry Fitzgerald

(Ari - WR)224.50

Percy Harvin

(Min - WR)220.48

Jeremy Maclin

(Phi - WR)218.95

Terrell Owens

(Cin - WR)216.63

And here are the details on the format itself:

Max Teams: 16

Roster Positions: QB, WR, WR, WR, WR, RB, RB, TE, TE, W/R/T, K, D, DB, DB, DB, DB, DL, DL, LB, LB, LB, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN

Offense League Value

Passing Attempts -1

Completions 2

Incomplete Passes -3

Passing Yards 5 yards per point

Passing Touchdowns 6

Interceptions -6

Rushing Attempts -0.5

Rushing Yards 4 yards per point

Rushing Touchdowns 6

Receptions -0.1

Reception Yards 6 yards per point

Reception Touchdowns 6

Return Yards 50 yards per point

Return Touchdowns 6

2-Point Conversions 2

Fumbles -4

Fumbles Lost -2

Offensive Fumble Return TD 6

40+ Yard Completions 2

40+ Yard Rushing Attempts 2

40+ Yard Receptions 2

Kickers League Value

Field Goals 0-19 Yards 3

Field Goals 20-29 Yards 3

Field Goals 30-39 Yards 3

Field Goals 40-49 Yards 4

Field Goals 50+ Yards 5

Field Goals Missed 0-19 Yards -2

Field Goals Missed 20-29 Yards -2

Field Goals Missed 30-39 Yards -1

Point After Attempt Made 1

Point After Attempt Missed -1

Defensive Players League Value

Tackle Solo 1.5

Tackle Assist 0.5

Sack 5

Interception 3

Fumble Force 5

Fumble Recovery 2.5

Defensive Touchdown 6

Safety 5

Pass Defended 6

Block Kick 6

Tackles for Loss 3.5

Turnover Return Yards 5 yards per point

Some final thoughts:

- The league is based on Yahoo's scoring parameters. I realize some other services may offer more customization, but I think it's important that this format remain as accessible as possible to the masses; which means making it adaptable to the "main" fantasy football sites.. it sounds a little trivial, but it affects the experience a lot IMO.. some of the aesthetics on FF websites out there is cringe-worthy lol.

- I aspired to balance efficiency (per attempt) and volume (cumulative production) and made adjustments position-relative. For example, YP-attempt for QB and YP-carry for RB was weighted more heavily than YP-catch for WR and TE, as my research determined that the latter was not nearly as reflective of player skill as the two previous stats were.

- This format is not perfect, especially with IDPs. But I do believe it's the best (or close to the best) that can be achieved with current, easily accessible metrics, and a large step in the right direction.

That all being said, I respect the community here greatly and very much look forward to the responses and dialogue to follow!

 

[cheese]

Since its clear that you're fine with making the league and the scoring complicated, I would consider....

1. Different points for IDP's based on position. The goal from each position is different, as is the difficulty to do each thing. It isn't the goal of a CB to rack up tackles. In a Sabermetric type league, I would like to see them get big points for picks and passes defended and next to nothing for a tackle (where they usually gave up a completion). On the flip side, a DLineman getting a tackle is "harder" than an LB getting a tackle and usually helps the team more. If you're trying to make all IDP's matter (not just LBs), consider different point values by position which will also help with your attempt to mimic NFL value. FWIW, MFL supports this.

2. Nitpick, I like the idea of giving points for big plays. I would lean 1 or 2 for 20+ and an additional 1 or 2 for 40+. These are the plays that change NFL games so I have no problem with them getting huge fantasy points. 20 yards is the cutoff for what I consider a "big play".

 

[J. Cyrus]

Since its clear that you're fine with making the league and the scoring complicated, I would consider....1. Different points for IDP's based on position. The goal from each position is different, as is the difficulty to do each thing. It isn't the goal of a CB to rack up tackles. In a Sabermetric type league, I would like to see them get big points for picks and passes defended and next to nothing for a tackle (where they usually gave up a completion). On the flip side, a DLineman getting a tackle is "harder" than an LB getting a tackle and usually helps the team more. If you're trying to make all IDP's matter (not just LBs), consider different point values by position which will also help with your attempt to mimic NFL value. FWIW, MFL supports this.2. Nitpick, I like the idea of giving points for big plays. I would lean 1 or 2 for 20+ and an additional 1 or 2 for 40+. These are the plays that change NFL games so I have no problem with them getting huge fantasy points. 20 yards is the cutoff for what I consider a "big play".

^@ #1 -- I agree with the premise completely. I really hope Yahoo supports it soon (I highly suspect they will in a year or two; they add new features every year and I think the demand is increasing). If I have the time next season I may set up a league on MFL as you described.. but jeez I wish the interface were prettier lol.@ #2 -- I wanted to give credit for big plays, but it is somewhat arbitrary as a bonus is already built into the scoring (negative yards per catch/carry + elevated standard yardage accrual = built in big-play credit).. therefore I limited it to 2. I'll admit I mostly pulled the number out of thin air, we'll see how it works this season.Thanks for the reply.

 

[J. Cyrus]

Also.. I PMed Joe Bryant about this and he was kind enough to get back to me about it. I'm hoping one of the FBG staffers volunteers to fill the last spot in order to evaluate the system for future consideration/discussion of the ideas and principles behind it.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Offense League Value

Passing Attempts -1

Completions 2

Incomplete Passes -3

Passing Yards 5 yards per point

Passing Touchdowns 6

Interceptions -6

Rushing Attempts -0.5

Rushing Yards 4 yards per point

Rushing Touchdowns 6

Receptions -0.1

Reception Yards 6 yards per point

Reception Touchdowns 6

Return Yards 50 yards per point

Return Touchdowns 6

2-Point Conversions 2

Fumbles -4

Fumbles Lost -2

Offensive Fumble Return TD 6

Why are pass attempts -1 if you score both completions and incomplete passes? Just make completions worth 1 and incompletions worth -4?Why are passing yards 5 yards per point, rushing yards 4 yards per point, and receiving yards 6 yards per point?

Are interceptions really -10 in this scoring system and TDs really +8? Just checking.

 

[tenaka]

Conceptually I like the idea of awarding points based on being a good NFL player over just the standard yardage and score totals. However looking over your player rank list I see a problem with the top few QBs scoring 30-100% more points than a good starter at another position. In fantasy terms, it becomes then a league of "have an elite QB or lose". One way to counter this is a topic you haven't brought up. Drafting. I think this kind of scoring format lends itself a lot better to an auction so that he player scoring 600 points has that heavy price tag that a player scoring 300 won't. You could then get balance among individual teams that a standard snake draft wouldn't give you.

I'd wonder at considering some other parameters, such as "# of snaps on field" especially for RB (maybe IDP as well). This would value a feature back over someone who is pulled at the goal line. As a result, someone with actual NFL talent on a bad team might score better than a mediocre player on a great offense who only plays 1st and 2nd down.

 

[cheese]

Unrelated to my previous points.... I think QBs should lose points on sacks. Sure, they aren't always to blame, but if we're truly talking SABR I have a problem with throwing the ball away being worse than taking a sack.

 

[J. Cyrus]

Why are pass attempts -1 if you score both completions and incomplete passes? Just make completions worth 1 and incompletions worth -4?

^I suppose you're right, although this is really just semantics. To answer your question, since these were conceived as separate functions (negative points on all attempts to factor in raw YPA, and the completion/incompletion setup to reward completion percentages above the 5 year league average of 60%) I simply input them as separate functions within the scoring.. but in practice, your method achieves the same end-result.

Why are passing yards 5 yards per point, rushing yards 4 yards per point, and receiving yards 6 yards per point?

^This was the result of massive tinkering. I had to balance 2 things:- inter-positional scoring logic- intra-positional scoring logicWithout getting into a diatribe, I had to achieve balance between a myriad of factors in order to design an accurate means of scoring players. It became apparent to me pretty early in the process that scoring yards uniformly across certain or all positions rigidly was not necessary or helpful. Due to the varying weights I arrived at to measure efficiency, raw yardage scoring had to be tweaked to make the combined end-result rational and consistent. I could go into more detail; let me know if you'd like me to.

Are interceptions really -10 in this scoring system and TDs really +8? Just checking.

^Well, the scoring is as stated in the original post. I'm not sure if you're referring to offense or defense, but if you're referring to defense.. I'll say that it also became apparent very early on to me that defense could not be scaled 1:1 to offense as far as scoring weights go, as it resulted in defense being unrealistically marginalized. For example, as far as sacks go.. I reasoned that a player with 12 sacks or w/e had many other times where he pressured the QB, and also that a player of that caliber has a generally disruptive effect on the opposing offense throughout that game.. although the scoring falls short as far as assigning specific and exact merit to each individual play in this regard, the overall effect through the course of a game (and by extension, of the season) is that the player is valued more appropriately than he would have been if I had set the point value for sacks lower.Thanks for the response Chase, I was glad to see you came through with some input.. this is what I was hoping for.

 

[J. Cyrus]

Conceptually I like the idea of awarding points based on being a good NFL player over just the standard yardage and score totals. However looking over your player rank list I see a problem with the top few QBs scoring 30-100% more points than a good starter at another position. In fantasy terms, it becomes then a league of "have an elite QB or lose". One way to counter this is a topic you haven't brought up. Drafting. I think this kind of scoring format lends itself a lot better to an auction so that he player scoring 600 points has that heavy price tag that a player scoring 300 won't. You could then get balance among individual teams that a standard snake draft wouldn't give you.I'd wonder at considering some other parameters, such as "# of snaps on field" especially for RB (maybe IDP as well). This would value a feature back over someone who is pulled at the goal line. As a result, someone with actual NFL talent on a bad team might score better than a mediocre player on a great offense who only plays 1st and 2nd down.

^ A couple of things:- This already is an auction league lol- I thought about the whole "feature back"/"merit of being a player the team trusts enough to rely on" vs. "demerit of a player who is simply forcefed carries because his team does not have a viable alternative" conundrum for a while. I would welcome ideas on how to address this rationally..

 

[Instinctive]

Conceptually I like the idea of awarding points based on being a good NFL player over just the standard yardage and score totals. However looking over your player rank list I see a problem with the top few QBs scoring 30-100% more points than a good starter at another position. In fantasy terms, it becomes then a league of "have an elite QB or lose". One way to counter this is a topic you haven't brought up. Drafting. I think this kind of scoring format lends itself a lot better to an auction so that he player scoring 600 points has that heavy price tag that a player scoring 300 won't. You could then get balance among individual teams that a standard snake draft wouldn't give you.

I'd wonder at considering some other parameters, such as "# of snaps on field" especially for RB (maybe IDP as well). This would value a feature back over someone who is pulled at the goal line. As a result, someone with actual NFL talent on a bad team might score better than a mediocre player on a great offense who only plays 1st and 2nd down.

Isn't that how it works in the NFL? Look at the playoff teams from last year: Rodgers, Cutler, Manning, Brady, Brees, Ryan, Flacco, Vick - then Hasselbeck and Sanchez.The only way Hass mad eit was the crappiness of the division. The only way Sanchez made it was the amazingness of the defense. Note also that the better the defense, the less good the QB had to be. In fact, aside from Seattle, if you ranked these QBs, the inverse would be pretty close to the way you'd rank the defenses.

If you're looking to mimic the NFL, then making it "elite QB or elite everything else or lose" is close to how it should be done.

 

[J. Cyrus]

Unrelated to my previous points.... I think QBs should lose points on sacks. Sure, they aren't always to blame, but if we're truly talking SABR I have a problem with throwing the ball away being worse than taking a sack.

^I also thought about this, and researched it for a while. I didn't come away convinced that blame for sacks could be uniformly and fairly credited amongst QBs.. there is evidence that some QBs are mostly to blame for their sack totals, and evidence that other QBs are mostly a victim of their O-line. I suppose I could find a way to split the difference between the two scenarios, but I'd like to be more certain it would add merit to the scoring before I implement it.I will investigate this further though..

 

[J. Cyrus]

Conceptually I like the idea of awarding points based on being a good NFL player over just the standard yardage and score totals. However looking over your player rank list I see a problem with the top few QBs scoring 30-100% more points than a good starter at another position. In fantasy terms, it becomes then a league of "have an elite QB or lose". One way to counter this is a topic you haven't brought up. Drafting. I think this kind of scoring format lends itself a lot better to an auction so that he player scoring 600 points has that heavy price tag that a player scoring 300 won't. You could then get balance among individual teams that a standard snake draft wouldn't give you.

I'd wonder at considering some other parameters, such as "# of snaps on field" especially for RB (maybe IDP as well). This would value a feature back over someone who is pulled at the goal line. As a result, someone with actual NFL talent on a bad team might score better than a mediocre player on a great offense who only plays 1st and 2nd down.

Isn't that how it works in the NFL? Look at the playoff teams from last year: Rodgers, Cutler, Manning, Brady, Brees, Ryan, Flacco, Vick - then Hasselbeck and Sanchez.The only way Hass mad eit was the crappiness of the division. The only way Sanchez made it was the amazingness of the defense. Note also that the better the defense, the less good the QB had to be. In fact, aside from Seattle, if you ranked these QBs, the inverse would be pretty close to the way you'd rank the defenses.

If you're looking to mimic the NFL, then making it "elite QB or elite everything else or lose" is close to how it should be done.

^ My thoughts exactly. This pretty much had to be an auction league with this dynamic in place, as the free market should set an appropriate price on all players, including elite QBs.

 

[tenaka]

Conceptually I like the idea of awarding points based on being a good NFL player over just the standard yardage and score totals. However looking over your player rank list I see a problem with the top few QBs scoring 30-100% more points than a good starter at another position. In fantasy terms, it becomes then a league of "have an elite QB or lose". One way to counter this is a topic you haven't brought up. Drafting. I think this kind of scoring format lends itself a lot better to an auction so that he player scoring 600 points has that heavy price tag that a player scoring 300 won't. You could then get balance among individual teams that a standard snake draft wouldn't give you.

I'd wonder at considering some other parameters, such as "# of snaps on field" especially for RB (maybe IDP as well). This would value a feature back over someone who is pulled at the goal line. As a result, someone with actual NFL talent on a bad team might score better than a mediocre player on a great offense who only plays 1st and 2nd down.

Isn't that how it works in the NFL? Look at the playoff teams from last year: Rodgers, Cutler, Manning, Brady, Brees, Ryan, Flacco, Vick - then Hasselbeck and Sanchez.The only way Hass mad eit was the crappiness of the division. The only way Sanchez made it was the amazingness of the defense. Note also that the better the defense, the less good the QB had to be. In fact, aside from Seattle, if you ranked these QBs, the inverse would be pretty close to the way you'd rank the defenses.

If you're looking to mimic the NFL, then making it "elite QB or elite everything else or lose" is close to how it should be done.

^ My thoughts exactly. This pretty much had to be an auction league with this dynamic in place, as the free market should set an appropriate price on all players, including elite QBs.

And that certainly has merit. I'm just thinking the viability of going that far for fantasy purposes. And as we all agree, using an auction/contract format mitigates this to at least a good extent. But just to play devil's advocate, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have rings, Dan Marino does not

 

[tenaka]

Conceptually I like the idea of awarding points based on being a good NFL player over just the standard yardage and score totals. However looking over your player rank list I see a problem with the top few QBs scoring 30-100% more points than a good starter at another position. In fantasy terms, it becomes then a league of "have an elite QB or lose". One way to counter this is a topic you haven't brought up. Drafting. I think this kind of scoring format lends itself a lot better to an auction so that he player scoring 600 points has that heavy price tag that a player scoring 300 won't. You could then get balance among individual teams that a standard snake draft wouldn't give you.I'd wonder at considering some other parameters, such as "# of snaps on field" especially for RB (maybe IDP as well). This would value a feature back over someone who is pulled at the goal line. As a result, someone with actual NFL talent on a bad team might score better than a mediocre player on a great offense who only plays 1st and 2nd down.

^ A couple of things:- This already is an auction league lol- I thought about the whole "feature back"/"merit of being a player the team trusts enough to rely on" vs. "demerit of a player who is simply forcefed carries because his team does not have a viable alternative" conundrum for a while. I would welcome ideas on how to address this rationally..

Just spitballing, is there any correlation between the quarter an Rb gets his carries and the quality of the player? We know an Rb on a good team is going to get a lot of work in the 4th where an RB on a bad team will do all his in the first 3 only to see his team have to throw a lot in the 4th.

 

[J. Cyrus]

Our league draft is tonight, I'll update this thread with the results afterwards!

 

[Instinctive]

Conceptually I like the idea of awarding points based on being a good NFL player over just the standard yardage and score totals. However looking over your player rank list I see a problem with the top few QBs scoring 30-100% more points than a good starter at another position. In fantasy terms, it becomes then a league of "have an elite QB or lose". One way to counter this is a topic you haven't brought up. Drafting. I think this kind of scoring format lends itself a lot better to an auction so that he player scoring 600 points has that heavy price tag that a player scoring 300 won't. You could then get balance among individual teams that a standard snake draft wouldn't give you.

I'd wonder at considering some other parameters, such as "# of snaps on field" especially for RB (maybe IDP as well). This would value a feature back over someone who is pulled at the goal line. As a result, someone with actual NFL talent on a bad team might score better than a mediocre player on a great offense who only plays 1st and 2nd down.

Isn't that how it works in the NFL? Look at the playoff teams from last year: Rodgers, Cutler, Manning, Brady, Brees, Ryan, Flacco, Vick - then Hasselbeck and Sanchez.The only way Hass mad eit was the crappiness of the division. The only way Sanchez made it was the amazingness of the defense. Note also that the better the defense, the less good the QB had to be. In fact, aside from Seattle, if you ranked these QBs, the inverse would be pretty close to the way you'd rank the defenses.

If you're looking to mimic the NFL, then making it "elite QB or elite everything else or lose" is close to how it should be done.

^ My thoughts exactly. This pretty much had to be an auction league with this dynamic in place, as the free market should set an appropriate price on all players, including elite QBs.

And that certainly has merit. I'm just thinking the viability of going that far for fantasy purposes. And as we all agree, using an auction/contract format mitigates this to at least a good extent. But just to play devil's advocate, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have rings, Dan Marino does not

And both had an elite everything else, no? BAL had the best scoring defense in history (or 2nd to 85 bears, can't recall) and a 2000 yard rusher. Doesn't that fall into the "elite everything else" category? TB had by far the best defense as well. Same category.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

I agree with the intent of this league, but I'm not sure it's worth the sacrifice of entertainment by tying scoring to derived statistics. I think I would enjoy such a league if the relevant scoring statistics for each position were kept simple. For example, offensive players could be awarded for all first downs, touchdowns and yardage only for series that result in a score rather than a change of possession. I'm not an avid IDP player, but I'm sure similar "simple" metrics could be used for defensive players regarding when to award for actions based on the outcome of the series. In this way, the fantasy game isn't as abstracted from the results of the real game.

 

[J. Cyrus]

So, we recently completed our league auction.. here are the results:

1. Nate Kaeding (SD - K) $2 MAYHEM2. Michael Vick (Phi - QB) $49 Prime Pistons3. Matthew Stafford (Det - QB) $44 Chuck Norris Fists4. Larry Fitzgerald (Ari - WR) $45 C'est La Vie5. Dallas Clark (Ind - TE) $21 sWaGGa JaCkAz6. Miles Austin (Dal - WR) $40 Buckets207. Tom Brady (NE - QB) $60 Buckets208. Jamaal Charles (KC - RB) $57 Arian Elvis9. Arian Foster (Hou - RB) $63 Arian Elvis10. Adrian Peterson (Min - RB) $60 sWaGGa JaCkAz11. Ray Rice (Bal - RB) $69 Chuck Norris Fists12. Shaun Hill (Det - QB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers13. Chad Ochocinco (NE - WR) $24 The Elite14. Chris Johnson (Ten - RB) $60 Team Prozac15. Antonio Gates (SD - TE) $21 Prime Pistons16. Mark Sanchez (NYJ - QB) $20 Arian Elvis17. Michael Turner (Atl - RB) $38 The Elite18. LeSean McCoy (Phi - RB) $51 sWaGGa JaCkAz19. Ben Tate (Hou - RB) $10 Team Prozac20. Andre Johnson (Hou - WR) $43 C'est La Vie21. Santonio Holmes (NYJ - WR) $22 Prime Pistons22. Ryan Mathews (SD - RB) $21 Swagga like Braga23. Jeremy Maclin (Phi - WR) $19 The Elite24. Rashard Mendenhall (Pit - RB) $55 Chuck Norris Fists25. Calvin Johnson (Det - WR) $50 Buckets2026. Aaron Rodgers (GB - QB) $70 Starvin Like Harvin27. Roddy White (Atl - WR) $49 Rabid Emus28. Brandon Lloyd (Den - WR) $16 Rabid Emus29. Darren McFadden (Oak - RB) $46 The Elite30. Hakeem Nicks (NYG - WR) $41 MAYHEM31. Dwayne Bowe (KC - WR) $28 Sippin' On Haterade32. Jimmy Graham (NO - TE) $16 THE OBX RAIDERS33. Frank Gore (SF - RB) $40 The Elite34. Mike Wallace (Pit - WR) $37 Sippin' On Haterade35. Tony Romo (Dal - QB) $53 C'est La Vie36. Philip Rivers (SD - QB) $70 MAYHEM37. Mario Manningham (NYG - WR) $20 Starvin Like Harvin38. Danny Woodhead (NE - RB) $12 BatLogic39. DeSean Jackson (Phi - WR) $31 Sippin' On Haterade40. Matt Forte (Chi - RB) $42 BatLogic41. Peyton Hillis (Cle - RB) $33 Starvin Like Harvin42. Drew Brees (NO - QB) $54 Rabid Emus43. Ahmad Bradshaw (NYG - RB) $26 Sippin' On Haterade44. Marques Colston (NO - WR) $18 Sippin' On Haterade45. Peyton Manning (Ind - QB) $63 BatLogic46. Dez Bryant (Dal - WR) $22 Starvin Like Harvin47. Matt Schaub (Hou - QB) $35 Haslhof Floorburgers48. LeGarrette Blount (TB - RB) $25 Haslhof Floorburgers49. DeAngelo Williams (Car - RB) $22 sWaGGa JaCkAz50. Matt Ryan (Atl - QB) $46 Team Prozac51. Brandon Pettigrew (Det - TE) $6 Buckets2052. Brandon Marshall (Mia - WR) $22 THE OBX RAIDERS53. Vincent Jackson (SD - WR) $49 BatLogic54. Rob Gronkowski (NE - TE) $9 Prime Pistons55. Maurice Jones-Drew (Jac - RB) $35 Swagga like Braga56. Ben Roethlisberger (Pit - QB) $30 Prime Pistons57. Clay Matthews (GB - LB) $7 Starvin Like Harvin58. Benjamin Watson (Cle - TE) $7 BatLogic59. Eli Manning (NYG - QB) $16 Sippin' On Haterade60. Jahvid Best (Det - RB) $21 MAYHEM61. Reggie Wayne (Ind - WR) $25 Haslhof Floorburgers62. Jermichael Finley (GB - TE) $17 Sippin' On Haterade63. Chris Cooley (Was - TE) $4 Rabid Emus64. Jared Cook (Ten - TE) $9 sWaGGa JaCkAz65. Kevin Kolb (Ari - QB) $12 sWaGGa JaCkAz66. Greg Jennings (GB - WR) $30 Haslhof Floorburgers67. Ryan Grant (GB - RB) $14 Prime Pistons68. Josh Freeman (TB - QB) $22 THE OBX RAIDERS69. Steven Jackson (StL - RB) $31 Swagga like Braga70. Davone Bess (Mia - WR) $5 Rabid Emus71. Mark Ingram (NO - RB) $26 Haslhof Floorburgers72. Shonn Greene (NYJ - RB) $26 Haslhof Floorburgers73. Devin McCourty (NE - CB) $5 MAYHEM74. Mike Williams (TB - WR) $28 Team Prozac75. Percy Harvin (Min - WR) $16 THE OBX RAIDERS76. Stevie Johnson (Buf - WR) $15 Swagga like Braga77. Wes Welker (NE - WR) $20 Swagga like Braga78. Vernon Davis (SF - TE) $14 THE OBX RAIDERS79. Kenny Britt (Ten - WR) $12 C'est La Vie80. Lance Kendricks (StL - TE) $3 Arian Elvis81. Anquan Boldin (Bal - WR) $18 Team Prozac82. Joe Flacco (Bal - QB) $17 THE OBX RAIDERS83. Jason Witten (Dal - TE) $12 THE OBX RAIDERS84. Curtis Lofton (Atl - LB) $3 Prime Pistons85. Terrell Suggs (Bal - LB) $3 Swagga like Braga86. BenJarvus Green-Ellis (NE - RB) $7 Rabid Emus87. Daniel Thomas (Mia - RB) $8 C'est La Vie88. Beanie Wells (Ari - RB) $11 C'est La Vie89. Charles Johnson (Car - DE) $3 Swagga like Braga90. Julio Jones (Atl - WR) $17 Arian Elvis91. Knowshon Moreno (Den - RB) $11 Prime Pistons92. Terrell Thomas (NYG - CB) $3 Haslhof Floorburgers93. Stevan Ridley (NE - RB) $3 C'est La Vie94. Tramon Williams (GB - CB) $3 Rabid Emus95. Marshawn Lynch (Sea - RB) $9 MAYHEM96. Hines Ward (Pit - WR) $5 Arian Elvis97. Cedric Benson (Cin - RB) $10 Starvin Like Harvin98. Austin Collie (Ind - WR) $9 Starvin Like Harvin99. Owen Daniels (Hou - TE) $7 Swagga like Braga100. Toby Gerhart (Min - RB) $2 Rabid Emus101. Eric Berry (KC - S) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS102. Thomas Jones (KC - RB) $3 Starvin Like Harvin103. Felix Jones (Dal - RB) $15 MAYHEM104. Fred Jackson (Buf - RB) $8 Team Prozac105. Roy Williams (Chi - WR) $8 MAYHEM106. Mike Thomas (Jac - WR) $8 Prime Pistons107. Joseph Addai (Ind - RB) $6 Rabid Emus108. Donovan McNabb (Min - QB) $6 The Elite109. T.J. Ward (Cle - S) $3 Arian Elvis110. A.J. Green (Cin - WR) $11 THE OBX RAIDERS111. Sidney Rice (Sea - WR) $5 MAYHEM112. Jermaine Gresham (Cin - TE) $2 Buckets20113. Steve Smith (Car - WR) $4 Rabid Emus114. Michael Bush (Oak - RB) $5 THE OBX RAIDERS115. Johnny Knox (Chi - WR) $3 Swagga like Braga116. Donte Whitner (SF - S) $2 sWaGGa JaCkAz117. Jerod Mayo (NE - LB) $5 Starvin Like Harvin118. Malcom Floyd (SD - WR) $2 Team Prozac119. Braylon Edwards (SF - WR) $3 Buckets20120. Cam Newton (Car - QB) $2 Arian Elvis121. Kellen Winslow (TB - TE) $3 Rabid Emus122. Reggie Bush (Mia - RB) $5 Sippin' On Haterade123. LaDainian Tomlinson (NYJ - RB) $3 Rabid Emus124. Delone Carter (Ind - RB) $2 Arian Elvis125. Santana Moss (Was - WR) $5 Team Prozac126. Terrell Owens (Cin - WR) $2 Arian Elvis127. Sam Bradford (StL - QB) $12 THE OBX RAIDERS128. Pierre Garcon (Ind - WR) $5 Arian Elvis129. Jay Cutler (Chi - QB) $4 Haslhof Floorburgers130. Plaxico Burress (NYJ - WR) $4 Swagga like Braga131. James Jones (GB - WR) $2 C'est La Vie132. Lance Moore (NO - WR) $5 Haslhof Floorburgers133. Desmond Bishop (GB - LB) $4 Chuck Norris Fists134. Derrick Mason (NYJ - WR) $2 Rabid Emus135. Jonathan Stewart (Car - RB) $3 Buckets20136. Marcedes Lewis (Jac - TE) $3 Rabid Emus137. Tony Gonzalez (Atl - TE) $3 Arian Elvis138. Zach Miller (Sea - TE) $2 C'est La Vie139. Ryan Torain (Was - RB) $4 Buckets20140. Patrick Willis (SF - LB) $3 Buckets20141. Mike Sims-Walker (StL - WR) $4 The Elite142. Jacoby Ford (Oak - WR) $3 THE OBX RAIDERS143. Tim Hightower (Was - RB) $8 Swagga like Braga144. Jordy Nelson (GB - WR) $2 Swagga like Braga145. Kyle Orton (Den - QB) $3 Buckets20146. Patrick Peterson (Ari - CB) $2 Buckets20147. Justin Tuck (NYG - DE) $3 Buckets20148. Ronnie Brown (Phi - RB) $3 Rabid Emus149. Karlos Dansby (Mia - LB) $1 Prime Pistons150. Mike Tolbert (SD - RB) $5 Swagga like Braga151. Darren Sproles (NO - RB) $3 BatLogic152. Dustin Keller (NYJ - TE) $2 MAYHEM153. Greg Olsen (Car - TE) $2 Chuck Norris Fists154. Brandon Jacobs (NYG - RB) $5 THE OBX RAIDERS155. Brent Celek (Phi - TE) $3 MAYHEM156. Paris Lenon (Ari - LB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers157. Ryan Fitzpatrick (Buf - QB) $1 The Elite158. Rashad Jennings (Jac - RB) $4 Rabid Emus159. James Starks (GB - RB) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS160. Ed Reed (Bal - S) $2 Buckets20161. Mason Crosby (GB - K) $1 Rabid Emus162. Fred Davis (Was - TE) $1 C'est La Vie163. Matt Cassel (KC - QB) $3 Swagga like Braga164. Danny Amendola (StL - WR) $2 Swagga like Braga165. Lee Evans (Bal - WR) $3 Prime Pistons166. Steve Smith (Phi - WR) $1 Buckets20167. Steve Breaston (KC - WR) $1 Starvin Like Harvin168. Robert Meachem (NO - WR) $2 Prime Pistons169. Michael Crabtree (SF - WR) $2 Buckets20170. Pierre Thomas (NO - RB) $1 BatLogic171. Tony Moeaki (KC - TE) $2 Team Prozac172. Chad Greenway (Min - LB) $2 Swagga like Braga173. C.J. Spiller (Buf - RB) $2 Prime Pistons174. Tyvon Branch (Oak - S) $3 Swagga like Braga175. Trent Cole (Phi - DE) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS176. Sebastian Janikowski (Oak - K) $1 Arian Elvis177. DeMarcus Ware (Dal - LB) $3 Swagga like Braga178. Nick Fairley (Det - DT) $1 C'est La Vie179. Ndamukong Suh (Det - DT) $2 Swagga like Braga180. Jerome Simpson (Cin - WR) $2 Chuck Norris Fists181. Arrelious Benn (TB - WR) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS182. Anthony Armstrong (Was - WR) $1 Buckets20183. Dezmon Briscoe (TB - WR) $1 Starvin Like Harvin184. Heath Miller (Pit - TE) $1 Team Prozac185. Jason Babin (Phi - DE) $2 Buckets20186. Deion Branch (NE - WR) $1 BatLogic187. Aaron Hernandez (NE - TE) $2 Swagga like Braga188. Ray Lewis (Bal - LB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers189. Colt McCoy (Cle - QB) $6 Swagga like Braga190. Julius Thomas (Den - TE) $1 Chuck Norris Fists191. Jason Pierre-Paul (NYG - DE) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS192. Greg Little (Cle - WR) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS193. Brent Grimes (Atl - CB) $1 Rabid Emus194. Jason Campbell (Oak - QB) $1 C'est La Vie195. Eric Weddle (SD - S) $1 Swagga like Braga196. Jacoby Jones (Hou - WR) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz197. James Laurinaitis (StL - LB) $3 Swagga like Braga198. Stephen Tulloch (Det - LB) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS199. Todd Heap (Ari - TE) $1 Starvin Like Harvin200. Paul Posluszny (Jac - LB) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS201. Denarius Moore (Oak - WR) $2 Prime Pistons202. Jabar Gaffney (Was - WR) $1 BatLogic203. Kevin Boss (Oak - TE) $1 Sippin' On Haterade204. Anthony Fasano (Mia - TE) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers205. Emmanuel Sanders (Pit - WR) $1 The Elite206. Nate Burleson (Det - WR) $3 Swagga like Braga207. Patrick Chung (NE - S) $3 THE OBX RAIDERS208. DeMarco Murray (Dal - RB) $1 Arian Elvis209. Antonio Cromartie (NYJ - CB) $1 Rabid Emus210. Mike Williams (Sea - WR) $1 C'est La Vie211. Stephen Gostkowski (NE - K) $2 Swagga like Braga212. D.J. Williams (Den - LB) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS213. James Harrison (Pit - LB) $1 Prime Pistons214. Jon Beason (Car - LB) $1 Buckets20215. Montario Hardesty (Cle - RB) $1 Starvin Like Harvin216. Lawrence Timmons (Pit - LB) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS217. David Ausberry (Oak - WR,TE) $1 MAYHEM218. Charles Woodson (GB - CB) $1 BatLogic219. Michael Griffin (Ten - S) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS220. Brian Urlacher (Chi - LB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers221. Visanthe Shiancoe (Min - TE) $1 The Elite222. Danario Alexander (StL - WR) $1 Chuck Norris Fists223. Earl Thomas (Sea - S) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS224. James Anderson (Car - LB) $2 Rabid Emus225. Tashard Choice (Dal - RB) $3 Rabid Emus226. Mario Williams (Hou - LB,DE) $1 C'est La Vie227. Bernard Pollard (Bal - S) $1 Swagga like Braga228. London Fletcher (Was - LB) $2 Rabid Emus229. DeAngelo Hall (Was - CB) $2 Rabid Emus230. Eric Decker (Den - WR) $1 Buckets20231. Willis McGahee (Den - RB) $2 Prime Pistons232. DeMeco Ryans (Hou - LB) $1 Team Prozac233. Joe Haden (Cle - CB) $1 MAYHEM234. Adam Vinatieri (Ind - K) $1 BatLogic235. Quintin Mikell (StL - S) $2 Rabid Emus236. Jacob Tamme (Ind - TE) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers237. Derrick Johnson (KC - LB) $2 Rabid Emus238. Charlie Whitehurst (Sea - QB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists239. Roman Harper (NO - S) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS240. Elvis Dumervil (Den - LB,DE) $1 Arian Elvis241. Jason Hill (Jac - WR) $3 Rabid Emus242. Anthony Spencer (Dal - LB) $1 C'est La Vie243. Cassius Vaughn (Den - CB) $1 Swagga like Braga244. Jared Allen (Min - DE) $2 Prime Pistons245. Steve Slaton (Hou - RB) $1 Prime Pistons246. Barrett Ruud (Ten - LB) $1 Buckets20247. Cliff Avril (Det - DE) $1 Starvin Like Harvin248. Antoine Bethea (Ind - S) $1 Team Prozac249. Julius Peppers (Chi - DE) $4 Prime Pistons250. Early Doucet (Ari - WR) $1 BatLogic251. Michael Huff (Oak - S) $1 Sippin' On Haterade252. Darnell Dockett (Ari - DT) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers253. Dawan Landry (Jac - S) $2 Swagga like Braga254. Alex Henery (Phi - K) $1 Chuck Norris Fists255. Rolando McClain (Oak - LB) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS256. Geno Hayes (TB - LB) $1 Arian Elvis257. David Garrard (Jac - QB) $1 Rabid Emus258. Devin Hester (Chi - WR) $1 C'est La Vie259. Robert Mathis (Ind - DE) $4 Rabid Emus260. Brandon Gibson (StL - WR) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz261. Charles Tillman (Chi - CB) $1 Prime Pistons262. LaRon Landry (Was - S) $1 Buckets20263. Cameron Wake (Mia - LB) $1 Starvin Like Harvin264. Craig Dahl (StL - S) $1 Team Prozac265. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Phi - CB) $2 Swagga like Braga266. Randy McMichael (SD - TE) $1 BatLogic267. Jacquizz Rodgers (Atl - RB) $2 Rabid Emus268. Jordan Shipley (Cin - WR) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers269. Yeremiah Bell (Mia - S) $1 The Elite270. Javon Ringer (Ten - RB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists271. Matt Shaughnessy (Oak - DE) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS272. Kendall Hunter (SF - RB) $1 Arian Elvis273. James Hall (StL - DE) $3 Rabid Emus274. Daryl Washington (Ari - LB) $1 C'est La Vie275. Vince Wilfork (NE - DT) $1 Swagga like Braga276. Brian Cushing (Hou - LB) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz277. Kerry Rhodes (Ari - S) $1 Prime Pistons278. Chris Hope (Ten - S) $1 Buckets20279. Brandon Flowers (KC - CB) $1 Starvin Like Harvin280. Chris Long (StL - DE) $1 Team Prozac281. Donald Driver (GB - WR) $1 MAYHEM282. Alge Crumpler (NE - TE) $1 BatLogic283. Cortland Finnegan (Ten - CB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade284. Roy Helu (Was - RB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers285. Takeo Spikes (SD - LB) $1 The Elite286. Damian Williams (Ten - WR) $1 Chuck Norris Fists287. Marion Barber (Chi - RB) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS288. Nate Washington (Ten - WR) $1 Arian Elvis289. Bernard Scott (Cin - RB) $1 C'est La Vie290. Greg Toler (Ari - CB) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz291. Brandon Carr (KC - CB) $1 Prime Pistons292. Justin Smith (SF - DE) $1 Buckets20293. Troy Polamalu (Pit - S) $1 Starvin Like Harvin294. Jonathan Vilma (NO - LB) $1 Team Prozac295. Calais Campbell (Ari - DE) $1 MAYHEM296. Brandon Spikes (NE - LB) $1 BatLogic297. Antoine Winfield (Min - CB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade298. Alterraun Verner (Ten - CB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers299. Neil Rackers (Hou - K) $1 The Elite300. Bilal Powell (NYJ - RB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists301. Matt Bryant (Atl - K) $2 THE OBX RAIDERS302. Bradie James (Dal - LB) $1 Arian Elvis303. Jason Snelling (Atl - RB) $1 C'est La Vie304. John Abraham (Atl - DE) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz305. Malcolm Jenkins (NO - S,CB) $1 Prime Pistons306. D'Qwell Jackson (Cle - LB) $1 Buckets20307. Andre Roberts (Ari - WR) $2 Prime Pistons308. LaMarr Woodley (Pit - LB) $1 Team Prozac309. David Hawthorne (Sea - LB) $2 Prime Pistons310. Bryant McFadden (Pit - CB) $1 BatLogic311. James Farrior (Pit - LB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade312. Harry Douglas (Atl - WR) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers313. Earl Bennett (Chi - WR) $1 The Elite314. Chaz Schilens (Oak - WR) $1 Chuck Norris Fists315. Dwight Freeney (Ind - DE) $1 Arian Elvis316. Kevin Walter (Hou - WR) $1 C'est La Vie317. Garrett Hartley (NO - K) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz318. Jerome Harrison (Det - RB) $1 Prime Pistons319. Josh Brown (StL - K) $1 Buckets20320. Evan Moore (Cle - TE) $1 Starvin Like Harvin321. Matt Hasselbeck (Ten - QB) $1 Team Prozac322. David Harris (NYJ - LB) $1 MAYHEM323. Mike Vrabel (KC - LB) $1 BatLogic324. Lance Briggs (Chi - LB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade325. Chad Henne (Mia - QB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers326. Kyle Rudolph (Min - TE) $1 The Elite327. Randall Cobb (GB - WR) $1 Chuck Norris Fists328. Antrel Rolle (NYG - S) $1 Arian Elvis329. Brandon Tate (Cin - WR) $1 C'est La Vie330. Kevin Burnett (Mia - LB) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz331. Shane Vereen (NE - RB) $1 Prime Pistons332. Jerricho Cotchery (Pit - WR) $1 Buckets20333. George Wilson (Buf - S) $1 Starvin Like Harvin334. Eddie Royal (Den - WR) $1 Team Prozac335. Leon Hall (Cin - CB) $1 MAYHEM336. Antwaun Molden (NE - CB) $1 BatLogic337. A.J. Hawk (GB - LB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade338. Brian Hartline (Mia - WR) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers339. Tyjuan Hagler (Ind - LB) $1 The Elite340. Chris Clemons (Sea - DE) $1 Chuck Norris Fists341. Adrian Wilson (Ari - S) $1 Arian Elvis342. LaRod Stephens-Howling (Ari - RB) $1 C'est La Vie343. Abram Elam (Dal - S) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz344. Nick Barnett (Buf - LB) $1 Prime Pistons345. Charles Godfrey (Car - S) $1 Buckets20346. Kyle Williams (Buf - DT) $1 Starvin Like Harvin347. David Buehler (Dal - K) $1 Team Prozac348. E.J. Henderson (Min - LB) $1 MAYHEM349. Antonio Smith (Hou - DE) $1 BatLogic350. Daryl Smith (Jac - LB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade351. Mike Goodson (Car - RB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers352. Shaun Smith (Ten - DT) $1 The Elite353. Legedu Naanee (Car - WR) $1 Chuck Norris Fists354. Oshiomogho Atogwe (Was - S) $1 Arian Elvis355. David Thomas (NO - TE) $1 C'est La Vie356. Haloti Ngata (Bal - DT) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz357. Donald Brown (Ind - RB) $1 Prime Pistons358. Brad Smith (Buf - WR) $1 Buckets20359. Pat Angerer (Ind - LB) $1 Starvin Like Harvin360. Bryan McCann (Dal - CB) $1 Team Prozac361. Mason Foster (TB - LB) $1 MAYHEM362. Champ Bailey (Den - CB) $1 BatLogic363. Terence Newman (Dal - CB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade364. Jason Avant (Phi - WR) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers365. Cary Williams (Bal - CB) $1 The Elite366. Jeremiah Johnson (Den - RB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists367. Louis Murphy (Oak - WR) $1 Arian Elvis368. Osi Umenyiora (NYG - DE) $1 C'est La Vie369. Louis Delmas (Det - S) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz370. Donnie Avery (StL - WR) $1 Prime Pistons371. Justin Forsett (Sea - RB) $1 Buckets20372. John Beck (Was - QB) $1 Starvin Like Harvin373. Dominique Barber (Hou - S) $1 Team Prozac374. Lamarr Houston (Oak - DT) $1 MAYHEM375. Dhani Jones (Cin - LB) $1 BatLogic376. Rob Bironas (Ten - K) $1 Sippin' On Haterade377. Glover Quin (Hou - CB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers378. Jordan Senn (Car - LB) $1 The Elite379. DeAndre Levy (Det - LB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists380. Alex Smith (SF - QB) $1 Arian Elvis381. Dexter McCluster (KC - WR,RB) $1 C'est La Vie382. Ray Edwards (Atl - DE) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz383. Michael Jenkins (Min - WR) $1 Buckets20384. Antonio Brown (Pit - WR) $1 Starvin Like Harvin385. Eric Smith (NYJ - S) $1 Team Prozac386. Johnathan Joseph (Hou - CB) $1 MAYHEM387. Corey Webster (NYG - CB) $1 BatLogic388. Ahtyba Rubin (Cle - DT) $1 Sippin' On Haterade389. Marcus Trufant (Sea - CB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers390. Chris Crocker (Cin - S) $1 The Elite391. Jerraud Powers (Ind - CB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists392. Nate Clements (Cin - CB) $1 Arian Elvis393. Ryan Williams (Ari - RB) $1 C'est La Vie394. Mario Haggan (Den - LB) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz395. Zach Miller (Jac - TE) $1 Starvin Like Harvin396. Luis Castillo (SD - DE) $1 Team Prozac397. Leonard Hankerson (Was - WR) $1 MAYHEM398. Tim Crowder (TB - DE) $1 BatLogic399. Brandon LaFell (Car - WR) $1 Sippin' On Haterade400. Ricky Williams (Bal - RB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers401. Edgar Jones (Was - LB) $1 The Elite402. Carlos Dunlap (Cin - DE) $1 Chuck Norris Fists403. Glenn Dorsey (KC - DE) $1 Arian Elvis404. Mohamed Massaquoi (Cle - WR) $1 C'est La Vie405. Danieal Manning (Hou - S) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz406. Donald Butler (SD - LB) $1 Starvin Like Harvin407. Robbie Gould (Chi - K) $1 Team Prozac408. Tarvaris Jackson (Sea - QB) $1 MAYHEM409. Carson Palmer (Cin - QB) $1 BatLogic410. Richard Marshall (Ari - CB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade411. Leon Washington (Sea - RB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers412. Jon McGraw (KC - S) $1 The Elite413. Tamba Hali (KC - LB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists414. Josh Morgan (SF - WR) $1 Arian Elvis415. Patrick Crayton (SD - WR) $1 C'est La Vie416. Bernard Berrian (Min - WR) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz417. Casey Matthews (Phi - LB) $1 Starvin Like Harvin418. Joe McKnight (NYJ - RB) $1 Team Prozac419. Antoine Cason (SD - CB) $1 MAYHEM420. Jamar Chaney (Phi - LB) $1 BatLogic421. Matt Roth (Jac - LB,DE) $1 Sippin' On Haterade422. Tony Scheffler (Det - TE) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers423. C.J. Ah You (StL - DE) $1 The Elite424. Rey Maualuga (Cin - LB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists425. Carnell Williams (StL - RB) $1 Arian Elvis426. Jay Feely (Ari - K) $1 C'est La Vie427. Kenny Phillips (NYG - S) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz428. Blair White (Ind - WR) $1 Starvin Like Harvin429. David Gettis (Car - WR) $1 Team Prozac430. Shaun Phillips (SD - LB) $1 MAYHEM431. Zackary Bowman (Chi - CB) $1 BatLogic432. Vince Young (Phi - QB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade433. Ronde Barber (TB - CB) $1 Haslhof Floorburgers434. Christopher Ivory (NO - RB) $1 The Elite435. Darrelle Revis (NYJ - CB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists436. Jake Locker (Ten - QB) $1 Arian Elvis437. Rashean Mathis (Jac - CB) $1 C'est La Vie438. Joshua Cribbs (Cle - WR) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz439. Von Miller (Den - LB) $1 Starvin Like Harvin440. Ed Dickson (Bal - TE) $1 Team Prozac441. Israel Idonije (Chi - DT) $1 MAYHEM442. Phillip Buchanon (Was - CB) $1 BatLogic443. Demaryius Thomas (Den - WR) $1 Sippin' On Haterade444. Nick Folk (NYJ - K) $1 The Elite445. Asante Samuel (Phi - CB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists446. Mark Clayton (StL - WR) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz447. Dennis Pitta (Bal - TE) $1 Starvin Like Harvin448. Orlando Scandrick (Dal - CB) $1 Team Prozac449. Delanie Walker (SF - TE) $1 MAYHEM450. Alphonso Smith (Det - CB) $1 BatLogic451. Jonathan Baldwin (KC - WR) $1 Sippin' On Haterade452. Golden Tate (Sea - WR) $1 The Elite453. Aqib Talib (TB - CB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists454. Darrius Heyward-Bey (Oak - WR) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz455. Jaiquawn Jarrett (Phi - S) $1 Starvin Like Harvin456. Jason McCourty (Ten - CB) $1 Team Prozac457. Titus Young (Det - WR) $1 MAYHEM458. Jim Kleinsasser (Min - TE) $1 BatLogic459. Chansi Stuckey (Ari - WR) $1 Sippin' On Haterade460. John Carlson (Sea - TE) $1 The Elite461. Isaac Redman (Pit - RB) $1 Chuck Norris Fists462. Jairus Byrd (Buf - S) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz463. Brett Keisel (Pit - DE) $1 Team Prozac464. Brandon Jackson (Cle - RB) $1 MAYHEM465. Ashlee Palmer (Det - LB) $1 BatLogic466. Maurice Morris (Det - RB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade467. Derek Cox (Jac - CB) $1 The Elite468. Laurent Robinson (Dal - WR) $1 Chuck Norris Fists469. Kirk Morrison (Buf - LB) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz470. Torrey Smith (Bal - WR) $1 MAYHEM471. Devin Aromashodu (Min - WR) $1 Sippin' On Haterade472. Michael Adams (Ari - CB) $1 The Elite473. Kevin Ogletree (Dal - WR) $1 Chuck Norris Fists474. Randy Moss (Ten - WR) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz475. Greg Salas (StL - WR) $1 Sippin' On Haterade476. William Hayes (Ten - DE) $1 The Elite477. Taylor Price (NE - WR) $1 Chuck Norris Fists478. Tim Tebow (Den - QB) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz479. Andy Dalton (Cin - QB) $1 Sippin' On Haterade480. Richard Seymour (Oak - DE) $1 sWaGGa JaCkAz

 

[J. Cyrus]

..and for a little self-indulgence, here's my team after some post-draft trading lol..

Chuck Norris FistsQBMatthew Stafford (Det - QB)WRDamian Williams (Ten - WR)WRDez Bryant (Dal - WR)WRAustin Collie (Ind - WR)WREarl Bennett (Chi - WR)RBRashard Mendenhall (Pit - RB)RBMarshawn Lynch (Sea - RB)TEGreg Olsen (Car - TE)TEJeremy Shockey (Car - TE)W/R/TDonald Jones (Buf - WR)KAlex Henery (Phi - K)DD.J. Williams (Den - LB)DBJerraud Powers (Ind - CB)DBDarrelle Revis (NYJ - CB)DBAsante Samuel (Phi - CB)DBJimmy Smith (Bal - CB)DLChris Clemons (Sea - DE)DLCarlos Dunlap (Cin - DE)LBDesmond Bishop (GB - LB)LBRey Maualuga (Cin - LB)LBBrian Orakpo (Was - LB)

 

[J. Cyrus]

The following info should be more interesting.. granted, it's based on Yahoo's projections so it should be taken with a grain of salt, but since their projections are sorted using the "sabermetric" scoring, it's a good snapshot of what types of players are truly most valuable in a format that's attempting to use truer measures of productivity..

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o385/jacobtulloch/ProBowlYahooProjQBrankings-1.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o385/jacobtulloch/ProBowlYahooProjRBrankings.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o385/jacobtulloch/ProBowlYahooProjWRrankings.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o385/jacobtulloch/ProBowlYahooProjTErankings.jpg

And the RB/WR/TE grouped together for easier comparison:

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o385/jacobtulloch/ProBowlYahooProjWRTrankings1.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o385/jacobtulloch/ProBowlYahooProjWRTrankings2.jpg

 

[Ian F]

As a member of this league what I find most interesting is how imperfect that market still remains, as people slavishly stick to old conventions of player/position value rather than digging into the scoring system. Will be fascinating to see how many years it takes for this to evolve.

Can't say much more as I plan to continue to exploit these arbitrage opportunities without pointing them out until they are gone!

Even more amazing is some "key members" of the league being the prime culprits of the above - no names mentioned to protect the innocent

 

[J. Cyrus]

As a member of this league what I find most interesting is how imperfect that market still remains, as people slavishly stick to old conventions of player/position value rather than digging into the scoring system. Will be fascinating to see how many years it takes for this to evolve.Can't say much more as I plan to continue to exploit these arbitrage opportunities without pointing them out until they are gone!Even more amazing is some "key members" of the league being the prime culprits of the above - no names mentioned to protect the innocent

^Interesting points for sure Ian.. I'm very excited for the season; Sunday can't come fast enough..I can't wait to see how ppl adjust next season after looking back on their missteps

 

[Arschloch]

footballoutsiders.com is a leading 'sabermetric' football analysis website. Check it out if you haven't already.

One of their old (since-replaced) player evaluation metrics was PAR, or Points Above Replacement. In this September 2007 posting, they wrote that an intern had come up with a fantasy football scoring system that approximated PAR:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/scramble/2007/scramble-ball-mutations , in the table just below the comic.

The approach taken by Football Outsiders makes some sense to me: they've demonstrated that PAR correlates to scoring, and so they built a fantasy football scoring system that approximates PAR.

What I'm not clear on is the approach you've taken for your scoring system. You discussed the importance of inter/intra-positional scoring logic. How did you define that logic? On what grounds are you able to measure the relative importance of a yard passing vs. rushing vs. receiving? Was it simply a balancing act, or are you able to tie that back to some larger theoretical construct (e.g., scoring, as the guys at Football Outsiders did)?

 

[J. Cyrus]

footballoutsiders.com is a leading 'sabermetric' football analysis website. Check it out if you haven't already.One of their old (since-replaced) player evaluation metrics was PAR, or Points Above Replacement. In this September 2007 posting, they wrote that an intern had come up with a fantasy football scoring system that approximated PAR:http://www.footballoutsiders.com/scramble/2007/scramble-ball-mutations , in the table just below the comic.The approach taken by Football Outsiders makes some sense to me: they've demonstrated that PAR correlates to scoring, and so they built a fantasy football scoring system that approximates PAR.What I'm not clear on is the approach you've taken for your scoring system. You discussed the importance of inter/intra-positional scoring logic. How did you define that logic? On what grounds are you able to measure the relative importance of a yard passing vs. rushing vs. receiving? Was it simply a balancing act, or are you able to tie that back to some larger theoretical construct (e.g., scoring, as the guys at Football Outsiders did)?

^Nice post man.. I checked out the FBO PAL-based scoring you linked above.. and it's funny, cuz I really just came into this with no presuppositions at all regarding how my goal of "more accurate" scoring should be achieved.. but I must admit that it more than superficially resembles the FBO/PAL scoring..To answer your questions.. I built everything around the point value of a TD. Any and all actions on the football field that were available in Yahoo for me to measure I endeavored to use in the scoring. I sought to reward talent and production over the sheer happenstance of scoring a TD.. While I wanted end-result to matter, I wanted merit to matter more.. so while I kept TDs at 6, I increased the positive value of yards and the negative value of turnovers to much higher levels than other fantasy leagues. I also thought it was integral to account for usage and efficiency; in fact, this was a cornerstone of my thought process. Guys who use less catches/carries/passing attempts to achieve the same yardage should be rewarded over those who plod their way to production through sheer usage mired in mediocrity.Having said all that, I get the feeling my explanation was a little disjointed lol. I no longer have the particulars of this process burned into my mind, as it's been a few weeks since I finished developing the format.. so I apologize if my explanations leave something to be desired.If you have any more questions, feel free to get more specific/ask the same question again cuz I completely ignored it, lol.

 

[atcdav]

Why are pass attempts -1 if you score both completions and incomplete passes? Just make completions worth 1 and incompletions worth -4?

This would affect INTs since it is -1 for the attempt and -6 for the INT. Make INTs -5?

 

[duaneok66]

the beauty of "traditional fantasy football" lies in its simplicity . . .

 

[Hoss Style]

I'm in a league now that has "different" scoring and I must say I wish there were more. When I do a lot of anything - FF included - then variety is the spice. I like your league setup and the direction it is aiming.

One thing that you mention is trying to grade the efficiency. I see in your earlier post (showing the top players in your system) that it's very QB heavy - and you actually say later that that is by design to "mimic" real NFL. I sure would love to find a league, though, that grades players more on how efficient they are at their position instead of how important they should be as compared to the "real" NFL. For example: lets just say Fitz performs at his position just as proficiently as Philip Rivers does at his. I'd like to see their scoring reflect that they are equally valuable (which may or may not be the "same" points - depending on the starting lineups and number of spots for each position).

My question to you is this - is that feasable with the scoring parameters provided currently in leagues today? I've never run a league before and you seem to be pretty skilled at it. Is there enough stat detail to guage "efficiency" and then a scoring format to reflect it accurately?

A league like this would definately not be the only leauge I'd want to be in but it sure would be fun to have as one of many. Heck - maybe it would actually be fun to have as my only league and be able to focus in on the mathematical side of things - who knows.

Anyway - good stuff you have there.

 

[Bri]

why did you underline the word do?

 

[Hoss Style]

why did you underline the word do?

I'm starting to see why you have 33,000+ posts.

 

[J. Cyrus]

Just got finished watching an awesome Packers/Saints game, and I have to say I'm very pleased that it provided me a nice example to show the potential of our scoring system:

Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating

Drew Brees 32 49 419 65.3 8.6 3 23 3 0 112.5

Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating

Aaron Rodgers 27 35 312 77.1 8.9 2 16 3 0 132.1

In the vast majority of fantasy leagues, Brees had more fantasy points than Rodgers tonight. Not so in our "sabermetric" league:

Drew Brees = 66.05

Aaron Rodgers = 73.65

I'm very pleased, lol.. this is definitely what I envisioned.. Rodgers had a superior YPA, QBR, Completion % and took less sacks.. he deserved more fantasy points and he got them..

While I already knew this would be the outcome of the scoring, I'm happy to have such a nice example to use as a talking point so early in the season.

 

[Ian F]

Most importantly neither of them are my opponents this week - lol

 

[Arschloch]

Just got finished watching an awesome Packers/Saints game, and I have to say I'm very pleased that it provided me a nice example to show the potential of our scoring system:

Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating

Drew Brees 32 49 419 65.3 8.6 3 23 3 0 112.5

Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating

Aaron Rodgers 27 35 312 77.1 8.9 2 16 3 0 132.1

In the vast majority of fantasy leagues, Brees had more fantasy points than Rodgers tonight. Not so in our "sabermetric" league:

Drew Brees = 66.05

Aaron Rodgers = 73.65

I'm very pleased, lol.. this is definitely what I envisioned.. Rodgers had a superior YPA, QBR, Completion % and took less sacks.. he deserved more fantasy points and he got them..

While I already knew this would be the outcome of the scoring, I'm happy to have such a nice example to use as a talking point so early in the season.

I don't know, I'm not necessarily convinced that Rodgers had a better night than Brees. I agree that Rodgers was more efficient than Brees on a per-play basis. But Brees had a lot more plays (passing attempts), and on those additional attempts, there's an argument that he was efficient enough to make him overall more valuable than Rodgers last night.Here's an extreme example that illustrates what I mean:

Player A: 5-5, 100 yards, 0 sacks

Player B: 30-40, 350 yards, 1 sack

Which player do you think provided more overall value to his team? Player A has the superior YPA and completion %, but I'd suggest that player B contributed more toward his team's scoring than did player A, and so in an ideal fantasy scoring system, player B would score more than player A.

If you want to bring this example back to last night's game: suppose that Brees started off with the same stat line that Rodgers ended up with: 27-35, 312. To get to his actual final stat line, Brees would've thrown 14 more passes and completed 5 of them for 107 yards. That's a 36% completion rate and 7.6 YPA. Do you feel a 36% completion rate and 7.6 YPA is good enough to contribute positively toward a team's victory? If the answer is yes, then Brees had a better night (and should ideally score more fantasy points); if the answer is no, then Rodgers should come out ahead.

7.6 YPA certainly is, but a 36% completion rate is definitely subpar, so just looking at those two stats it's not exactly clear. We could then get into a whole discussion as to whether those numbers should be compared to an 'average' QB or a 'replacement-level' QB, etc., but my overall point is that per-play efficiency doesn't necessarily translate directly into 'more valuable.'

 

[Maven]

Good idea but your point system is def inflated in some areas.

 

[J. Cyrus]

Just got finished watching an awesome Packers/Saints game, and I have to say I'm very pleased that it provided me a nice example to show the potential of our scoring system:

Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating

Drew Brees 32 49 419 65.3 8.6 3 23 3 0 112.5

Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating

Aaron Rodgers 27 35 312 77.1 8.9 2 16 3 0 132.1

In the vast majority of fantasy leagues, Brees had more fantasy points than Rodgers tonight. Not so in our "sabermetric" league:

Drew Brees = 66.05

Aaron Rodgers = 73.65

I'm very pleased, lol.. this is definitely what I envisioned.. Rodgers had a superior YPA, QBR, Completion % and took less sacks.. he deserved more fantasy points and he got them..

While I already knew this would be the outcome of the scoring, I'm happy to have such a nice example to use as a talking point so early in the season.

I don't know, I'm not necessarily convinced that Rodgers had a better night than Brees. I agree that Rodgers was more efficient than Brees on a per-play basis. But Brees had a lot more plays (passing attempts), and on those additional attempts, there's an argument that he was efficient enough to make him overall more valuable than Rodgers last night.Here's an extreme example that illustrates what I mean:

Player A: 5-5, 100 yards, 0 sacks

Player B: 30-40, 350 yards, 1 sack

Which player do you think provided more overall value to his team? Player A has the superior YPA and completion %, but I'd suggest that player B contributed more toward his team's scoring than did player A, and so in an ideal fantasy scoring system, player B would score more than player A.

If you want to bring this example back to last night's game: suppose that Brees started off with the same stat line that Rodgers ended up with: 27-35, 312. To get to his actual final stat line, Brees would've thrown 14 more passes and completed 5 of them for 107 yards. That's a 36% completion rate and 7.6 YPA. Do you feel a 36% completion rate and 7.6 YPA is good enough to contribute positively toward a team's victory? If the answer is yes, then Brees had a better night (and should ideally score more fantasy points); if the answer is no, then Rodgers should come out ahead.

7.6 YPA certainly is, but a 36% completion rate is definitely subpar, so just looking at those two stats it's not exactly clear. We could then get into a whole discussion as to whether those numbers should be compared to an 'average' QB or a 'replacement-level' QB, etc., but my overall point is that per-play efficiency doesn't necessarily translate directly into 'more valuable.'

^Nice post, and you raised some strong questions. I suppose my conclusion that Rodgers played the better game was based upon 2 things:- The "gut feeling" I came away with after having watched the game

- A look at the numbers after the game was finished

By no means do I think my analysis was infallible, and it's certainly possible that I'm incorrect in an absolute sense.. but I do still believe Rodgers played the better game..

I particularly like the 5/14 vs. 7.6 YPA question you raised.. that's exactly the type of analysis required to sharpen up this scoring system even more next season. I'm eager to find flaws and correct them. Speaking of which..

Good idea but your point system is def inflated in some areas.

^Care to elaborate?

 

[J. Cyrus]

Here's an extreme example that illustrates what I meanlayer A: 5-5, 100 yards, 0 sacksPlayer B: 30-40, 350 yards, 1 sack

^FWIW, here's what each of your hypothetical players would have scored in our leaguelayer A: 25 pointsPlayer B: 60 pointsSo our league's scoring does in fact agree with your premise that Player B was superior despite being less "efficient". My goal was to balance efficiency and volume, not irrationally marginalize the latter for the sake of the former. The question is, did I strike the right balance yet.. time and scrutiny will tell I suppose..

 

[J. Cyrus]

League Leaders in Fantasy Points thru Week 2:

QB

Tom Brady

(NE - QB) 191.00

Aaron Rodgers

(GB - QB) 127.00

Drew Brees

(NO - QB) 122.05

Cam Newton

(Car - QB) 120.75

Philip Rivers

(SD - QB) 94.35

Matthew Stafford

(Det - QB) 94.05

Tony Romo

(Dal - QB) 89.15

Matt Hasselbeck

(Ten - QB) 82.95

Matt Schaub

(Hou - QB) 73.50

Ryan Fitzpatrick

(Buf - QB) 70.90

Kevin Kolb

(Ari - QB) 67.95

Jason Campbell

(Oak - QB) 66.35

Andy Dalton

(Cin - QB) 59.35

Josh Freeman

(TB - QB) 54.73

Alex Smith

(SF - QB) 54.55

Mark Sanchez

(NYJ - QB) 48.40

Rex Grossman

(Was - QB) 45.95

Matt Ryan

(Atl - QB) 42.30

Ben Roethlisberger

(Pit - QB) 39.25

Chad Henne

(Mia - QB) 37.45

Michael Vick

(Phi - QB) 30.80

Eli Manning

(NYG - QB) 30.60

Jay Cutler

(Chi - QB) 16.70

Kyle Orton

(Den - QB) 15.75

Mike Kafka

(Phi - QB) 15.40

RB/WR/TE

LeSean McCoy

(Phi - RB) 69.15

Steve Smith

(Car - WR) 67.87

Kenny Britt

(Ten - WR) 64.97

Matt Forte

(Chi - RB) 59.25

Miles Austin

(Dal - WR) 58.43

Fred Jackson

(Buf - RB) 58.12

Darren McFadden

(Oak - RB) 54.53

Ray Rice

(Bal - RB) 54.43

Michael Turner

(Atl - RB) 53.60

Wes Welker

(NE - WR) 52.67

Adrian Peterson

(Min - RB) 49.30

Rob Gronkowski

(NE - TE) 45.89

Mike Wallace

(Pit - WR) 45.23

Vincent Jackson

(SD - WR) 44.63

Jeremy Maclin

(Phi - WR) 44.18

Andre Johnson

(Hou - WR) 43.93

Eric Decker

(Den - WR) 43.43

Beanie Wells

(Ari - RB) 43.35

Devery Henderson

(NO - WR) 42.93

Ryan Mathews

(SD - RB) 42.75

Jahvid Best

(Det - RB) 42.75

Calvin Johnson

(Det - WR) 42.60

Brandon Marshall

(Mia - WR) 41.03

A.J. Green

(Cin - WR) 40.40

Jordy Nelson

(GB - WR) 40.13

^If there's any commentary/disagreement regarding the accuracy of the above scoring in relation to what these players did on the field, I'd love to hear it. I'd like to refine the scoring as much as possible heading into 2012.. the interest and dialogue is definitely appreciated!