Sad situation for my FF league. Looking for advice (1 Viewer)

[Godsbrother]

Tough situation here...

We played last year but did not have our end-of-season meeting where we give the trophy and distribute winnings because of the Covid pandemic.

Last week I sent out an invite for our annual summer meeting in August where we discuss possible rule changes and we draw to determine draft positions and I said we would distribute the winnings.   I heard back from everyone except the treasurer which was surprising since he loves the NFL, FF and is one of our best and most successful team owners.  

So I send him a text message asking if everything is okay and he tells me he has been "going through some shXX", will not attend the meeting, but for now he still plans on playing this year.  I didn't want to pry into his personal stuff and told him not to worry about FF and whatever he decides is fine, thoughts and prayers, and all of that kind of stuff.   He is an older guy, 69 years old and life long smoker.

Yesterday a buddy of mine (not in the league) that lives across the street says this guy is in pretty bad shape, broke his neck and back and has stage 4 cancer in multiple places that needs immediate treatment (not sure if chemo or radiation).  Obviously this is terrible news and FF is meaningless but it does put me in an odd situation.

Prior to hearing this I expected that winnings would be distributed by the treasurer  but I am not going to call a sick man and ask him for the money.   We are not talking about huge money because he was the champion last year and won slightly more than half of the $1200 pot but the runner up is owed more $250 and another guy over $100 (one guy already got his money in January).  The rest of us are due less than $50 and there is one or two guys that owe less than $20 due to unpaid transactions.

So I am curious as to what the FBG commissioners would do here.   I am leaning towards not mentioning it to anyone and just distribute the winnings from my pocket as if it came from the treasurer.  It will run me around $500 but I think not paying out is unfair.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I think I’d probably present all of the story to the league and ask them for advice. I bet none would expect you to pay them money out of your pocket.

 

[Catbird]

You know your guys, but I am sure everyone will wait under the circumstances. I would send that out as a suggestion. If anyone has a huge problem, I would cover for their prize (it doesn't sound like that will be any huge amount). If the worst happens and he hasn't paid off the others, I would explain that and assess enough funds divided equally between the others to pay the uncollected prizes and just call that a cost of league maintenance. If someone won't do that, you have several choices, but I bet everyone will. Paying the difference yourself should be he last option..

 

[rzrback77]

I suggest that you inform the entire league at the initial meeting that you said was upcoming. Give them the opportunity to also cancel the debt so to speak and then, if necessary you make all the rest good yourself as an act of good-will.

I will add a word of caution to be prepared to do it all yourself and to forgive the rest of your league mates ahead of time if all of them choose to let you carry the load. Friendships are rare.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

ouch ...I would think first you want to let the rest of the league know of your friend's dire health and where the league is at with last year's payout. 

Then see what response you get - likely the smaller amount guys will tell you they don't need the money out of your pocket, the $250 & $100 guys might feel differently. 

Or just explain the situation and provide the payouts.   

 

[need2know]

talk to your friend about it.  he would probably love to hear from you

 

[Godsbrother]

Thanks for the advice guys.   I am reluctant to let everybody know the extent of his illness because (1) not sure it is my place to do that (2) I am sure that everyone would say to cancel their winnings whether they wanted to or not.   

By handing out the winnings from own pocket as if it came from the treasurer I wouldn't have to deal with either.

 

[zamboni]

Tough situation for sure. I guess it depends on the nature of the league, but my league is a bunch of friends and if this happened, we would either wait or just say forget about the winnings - much more important issues in life given what the affected party is going through.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Thanks for the advice guys.   I am reluctant to let everybody know the extent of his illness because (1) not sure it is my place to do that (2) I am sure that everyone would say to cancel their winnings whether they wanted to or not.   

By handing out the winnings from own pocket as if it came from the treasurer I wouldn't have to deal with either.

Not trying to sound like a jackass, but not sure what you're looking for here? I think you've already made up your mind.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

"hey guys.....2020 sucked for everybody....it hit Bob a little harder then some of us....at this point it would be a difficult conversation to ask him about the payouts from last year....without saying too much more, I hope you understand and if Bob cares to share anything with you guys, that will be up to him.....with that said, at this time, I am kind of asking that we all pretend we finished last in that miserable year and move on.....I realize that may not sound real fair to some of you, but believe me I feel it is the best way to proceed at this time....if things change, we will try to make things right, but I feel this is the best decision, I hope you can understand....thanks"

and then maybe you can do something like not charge the guys who won money an entry fee this year.....and kind of adjust your payouts accordingly or something for this year......

 

[zamboni]

and then maybe you can do something like not charge the guys who won money an entry fee this year.....and kind of adjust your payouts accordingly or something for this year......

Great suggestion to account for lost winnings.

 

[-OZ-]

"hey guys.....2020 sucked for everybody....it hit Bob a little harder then some of us....at this point it would be a difficult conversation to ask him about the payouts from last year....without saying too much more, I hope you understand and if Bob cares to share anything with you guys, that will be up to him.....with that said, at this time, I am kind of asking that we all pretend we finished last in that miserable year and move on.....I realize that may not sound real fair to some of you, but believe me I feel it is the best way to proceed at this time....if things change, we will try to make things right, but I feel this is the best decision, I hope you can understand....thanks"

and then maybe you can do something like not charge the guys who won money an entry fee this year.....and kind of adjust your payouts accordingly or something for this year......

This seems right to me. 

But if you're in a much better Financial position than the others, you could just pay it off yourself. You're definitely not under any obligation to do so, it's just the easy way out. 

 

[MTskibum]

I would pay out of my own pocket and not let anyone know of any issue. It is not much money.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Tough situation.   This is going to sound callous, but if the treasurer is in such bad shape that he can't venmo whatever distributions the league is owed, I wouldn't feel like you can't relay that information to the league, just so they have some sense of what's going on.   For me, I'm envisioning a situation where the people owed money don't have any relationship with the treasurer, whereas you have some relationship with him as you're both in leadership positions within the league.

For me, if I can afford to pay it out-of-pocket without doing serious financial harm to myself: 

1) I tell the league the situation and let them know that I'm willing to pay what's owed out of my own pocket, or even present it as I'm paying what's due out-of-pocket if the people owed money have no friendship with the treasurer.

2)  I collect whatever is due from any other owners to offset this, even if it's just $20

3)  I hope that the people owed money step up and do the right thing, not take your out-of-pocket money.   If these people are going to be stand-up, I then present a proposal to the league that these people should get paid, and that the payouts for the champion of this upcoming season (or champ and 2nd / 3rd place payouts) will get paid that much less if the money from the Treasurer is never received.  That way it's more of a league-wide liability.   The individual(s) that ultimately flip the bill at least knew what the situation would be, and are probably still thrilled to have the bragging rights of victory, even if the payout is less than what it should have been.   Or you can even establish that the next 2-3 years of championship payouts will be shorted if the Treasurer doesn't come through.  Hopefully the Treasurer does the right thing directly, and hopefully not through a will.

4)  If the people owed the money don't do the classy thing, then you can look at this as a time where you find out who your friends are.   If you're ultimately on the hook, then I hope that the fantasy football Gods give you a lot of good karma over the next handful of years for your good deeds.   If it's a good league, it's well worth it.   

Good luck, and best wishes.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

3)  I hope that the people owed money step up and do the right thing, not take your out-of-pocket money.   If these people are going to be stand-up, I then present a proposal to the league that these people should get paid, and that the payouts for the champion of this upcoming season (or champ and 2nd / 3rd place payouts) will get paid that much less if the money from the Treasurer is never received.  That way it's more of a league-wide liability.   The individual(s) that ultimately flip the bill at least knew what the situation would be, and are probably still thrilled to have the bragging rights of victory, even if the payout is less than what it should have been.   Or you can even establish that the next 2-3 years of championship payouts will be shorted if the Treasurer doesn't come through.  Hopefully the Treasurer does the right thing directly, and hopefully not through a will.

Come to think of it, and this is going to sound a little devious, but if this does a represent a somewhat significant chunk of money that you would rather not be on the line for.  YOU COULD orchestrate this very situation with the two people that are due money if you have a good enough relationship with them.

1.  You volunteer to pay out-of-pocket

2.  They say, I will accept no such thing

3.  You say, well it's not right that you guys take the financial hit, it should be a league-wide liability.

4.  Present the plan to short the championship payouts in the upcoming season(s).   The other owners won't have any choice but to go along with this plan, otherwise they're coming off really bad in this scenario.   Ideally, get this communication and plan out before the draft, so if there are owners that refuse to accept the idea that if they win a championship in the upcoming season, they might not get paid as much, they can simply not participate.   Honestly, if that's the mindset of any people in the league, you're probably better off without them.

 

[Godsbrother]

Just spoke to his best friend.   The situation is indeed dire:  stage 4 bone cancer, will start chemo this week but he has been given 2 years.   

He wants to tell all of the guys personally at our summer meeting or draft and will bring the payouts.

So a very sad situation but the FF issue is resolved.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

If you are the new treasurer going forward, you might want to gauge the league's interest in paying the premium to go through leaguesafe for the payouts at an appropriate time and place.   But I guess it's not really necessary if there's no shortage.   I hate the idea of paying the toll to Charchian if everyone in the league knows each other and can trust the Commish / Treasurer to pay timely. 

 

[Godsbrother]

If you are the new treasurer going forward, you might want to gauge the league's interest in paying the premium to go through leaguesafe for the payouts at an appropriate time and place.   But I guess it's not really necessary if there's no shortage.   I hate the idea of paying the toll to Charchian if everyone in the league knows each other and can trust the Commish / Treasurer to pay timely. 

Thanks we will definitely take this under advisement.  Obviously we will need a new treasurer at a minimum but this is worth considering

 

[socrates]

Perhaps I am missing something here.  Why not send a private message to the Treasurer asking about the payouts.  It can be a very soft, no pressure message, but just because he is going through some serious health concerns may not mean he is unable deal with payouts.  I am guessing you appointed him to that role for a reason, and he has the funds set aside.  If I am in his position, I might feel slightly offended if I found out later you were afraid to ask me for the payouts.

"Hey buddy, I am sorry to hear you are facing such difficulty right now.  My heart and prayers go out for you.  If you need anything, let me know.  I am glad to hear you are returning to defend your title this fall!  Last season was a bit of a challenge with COVID, and we have not yet distributed winnings.  I realize life is probably rather hectic for you right now, and, if it would help, I would be happy to personally advance the funds to make those payouts.  Let me know.  Wishing you the best, Commish"

 

[Godsbrother]

Perhaps I am missing something here.  Why not send a private message to the Treasurer asking about the payouts.  It can be a very soft, no pressure message, but just because he is going through some serious health concerns may not mean he is unable deal with payouts.  I am guessing you appointed him to that role for a reason, and he has the funds set aside.  If I am in his position, I might feel slightly offended if I found out later you were afraid to ask me for the payouts.

"Hey buddy, I am sorry to hear you are facing such difficulty right now.  My heart and prayers go out for you.  If you need anything, let me know.  I am glad to hear you are returning to defend your title this fall!  Last season was a bit of a challenge with COVID, and we have not yet distributed winnings.  I realize life is probably rather hectic for you right now, and, if it would help, I would be happy to personally advance the funds to make those payouts.  Let me know.  Wishing you the best, Commish"

Yeah I can see that side.  Just didn't want to bug someone about a couple hundred dollars when he is fighting for his life.  It turns out that he did have this on his mind so while the money situation is rectified I still have a friend that is facing a terminal disease.   Cancer sucks

 

[socrates]

Yeah I can see that side.  Just didn't want to bug someone about a couple hundred dollars when he is fighting for his life.  It turns out that he did have this on his mind so while the money situation is rectified I still have a friend that is facing a terminal disease.   Cancer sucks

Yes it does.  I am sorry your friend is going through this. :(

 

[Gally]

I think for the future it might be a good idea to have a payout deadline so this doesn't drag on.  We have to have ours paid out by the NFL Super Bowl.  We wait that long because we have transaction fees for free agents so some teams still owe something by the end of the year.  We have a time frame those must be paid and then the winnings distributed a week or two after that.  That way it is clear to everyone when payment is due.  You may have avoided all of this worry if it was all paid back in January.  

Handling money is the absolute worst part of FF but I still don't want to pay even more to have a league safe type system.  

 

[Godsbrother]

I think for the future it might be a good idea to have a payout deadline so this doesn't drag on.  We have to have ours paid out by the NFL Super Bowl.  We wait that long because we have transaction fees for free agents so some teams still owe something by the end of the year.  We have a time frame those must be paid and then the winnings distributed a week or two after that.  That way it is clear to everyone when payment is due.  You may have avoided all of this worry if it was all paid back in January.  

Handling money is the absolute worst part of FF but I still don't want to pay even more to have a league safe type system.  

In a normal year this would not have been a problem as we always distribute cash at the end of season meeting in January but unfortunately Covid was in full swing so we just put it off. Lesson learned though

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

this guy is in pretty bad shape, broke his neck and back and has stage 4 cancer in multiple places that needs immediate treatment (not sure if chemo or radiation).  Obviously this is terrible news and FF is meaningless but it does put me in an odd situation.

That is a brutal situation. It also highlights why I commit to my leaguemates that as soon as everyone is paid up, I will pay out. And I generally put the super bowl as the deadline. Not trying to make a 20-20 hindsight condemnation here, just suggesting that it's a good policy that you might want to implement for your league. Also, I don't use a treasurer, which also helps to mitigate this. 

Prior to hearing this I expected that winnings would be distributed by the treasurer  but I am not going to call a sick man and ask him for the money.   We are not talking about huge money because he was the champion last year and won slightly more than half of the $1200 pot but the runner up is owed more $250 and another guy over $100 (one guy already got his money in January).  The rest of us are due less than $50 and there is one or two guys that owe less than $20 due to unpaid transactions.

So I am curious as to what the FBG commissioners would do here.   I am leaning towards not mentioning it to anyone and just distribute the winnings from my pocket as if it came from the treasurer.  It will run me around $500 but I think not paying out is unfair.

This is a really challenging question. 

First, be direct. It sucks this dude is going through all this, but he said he'd be back to play, so the expectation has to be that he pays out the money due. That's not even debatable, IMO.  So ask the dude, "hey, I know you're going through the wringer, but we have to get last year settled up" and see how he responds. You don't want to put the wagon ahead of the horse with an assumption. This might all work itself out with the right answer there. 

Second, IF he responds, "geez, I'm in a hard place financially right now, I can't pay the money" then that's a new issue and you can address that head-on, both with him & the league-members. 

As I read it, no transgression has happened yet except for a delay in payment. I think you have to dig a little deeper before making your next decision. 

And I don't think you should have to own the burden alone IF he isn't intending to pay. As others have suggested, discuss with the league & see what they say. Heck, y'all might collectively decide to "donate" the unpaid $ to his treatment fund 

I tend to be empathetic, but honest about such satiations. Yeah, it's very sad that he's going through this stuff, but it's mutually excusive to his pwning money that isn't his to your league-mates. 

Good luck - what an awful situation. 

 

[FairWarning]

If you are the new treasurer going forward, you might want to gauge the league's interest in paying the premium to go through leaguesafe for the payouts at an appropriate time and place.   But I guess it's not really necessary if there's no shortage.   I hate the idea of paying the toll to Charchian if everyone in the league knows each other and can trust the Commish / Treasurer to pay timely. 

Paying Leaguesafe does eliminate the problem though.  Seen too many bad instances with friends/money, and it can ruin a league.

 

[ratbast]

Try to find a few guys who have extra money. Team up with them to come up with the winnings if you can’t do it yourself. Divided by two or three it’s minimal cash. Then leave the issue between those involved and don’t bring the past funds up at all. 

 

[matuski]

Credit the teams owed money the amount they are owed towards future entry fees.

Makes for a smaller pot the next couple years but...

 

[Dacomish]

Thanks for the advice guys.   I am reluctant to let everybody know the extent of his illness because (1) not sure it is my place to do that (2) I am sure that everyone would say to cancel their winnings whether they wanted to or not.   

By handing out the winnings from own pocket as if it came from the treasurer I wouldn't have to deal with either.

If you do that you really need to then go to a league fee hosting site like Leaguesafe as mentioned above to keep your monies, yes there is some small fees with deposits or withdrawls, but you never need to worry about this scenario again. Plus you can pay your site fees directly from that too like MFL. in my big dynasty league have used it for going on 5 years and best thing I could ever do knowing the payouts were safe and could be distributed literally the first day that Leaguesafe allows it (last few years was right at Christmas time).