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Sad story...Good Samaritan loses both legs trying to help...no health insurance. (1 Viewer)

If some loser I went to high school with can raise $10,000 on Gofundme to cover the court costs of her addict son, then surely this can raise enough too...

 
fruity pebbles said:
Hospital will write it off
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That's true.

She'll actually end up better off than if she had catastrophic with a high deductible. Probably.

That doesn't mean the status quo is a good situation.

NCCommish said:
This would be an unheard of financial problem in any advanced country on Earth but ours. It's shameful.
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I am practically at the opposite end of the political spectrum from NCC, but I agree with him on this. It is shameful.

Our medical system in this country is currently a Frankenstein's monster of approaches. It isn't socialized, it isn't single-payer, and it isn't free market. It's a total mess. 

Every band-aid that is put on it (including ACA) creates new problems elsewhere. Unintended consequences are a fact of life, but unintended consequences become more problematic and more difficult to predict as the complexity of a system increases. And the current system is mind-numbingly complex, in a Rube Goldberg/mousetrap kind of way.

I don't know what the best solution is, but despite my core libertarian/free market beliefs, I am becoming increasingly convinced that the most pragmatic solution is something that I wouldn't have dreamed of supporting just a few years ago.

 
rascal said:
That is horrible that she lost her legs.

Our medical/insurance system is a joke
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This is an extremely sad situation.  I am sure that the motorist that hit her will be liable for a large portion of the medical burden.  Not to be the pessimist but, how do you have children and do not have health insurance?  Also, I have many problems with our medical system but to say it is a "joke" because she does not have insurance is a bit odd.  She is getting care, regardless of the ability to pay, so what exactly is the joke?

 
sbonomo said:
This is an extremely sad situation.  I am sure that the motorist that hit her will be liable for a large portion of the medical burden.  Not to be the pessimist but, how do you have children and do not have health insurance?  Also, I have many problems with our medical system but to say it is a "joke" because she does not have insurance is a bit odd.  She is getting care, regardless of the ability to pay, so what exactly is the joke?
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I agree with you that this isn't really the best example of our medical system being a joke. But that doesn't change the fact that it is one. 

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I agree with you that this isn't really the best example of our medical system being a joke. But that doesn't change the fact that it is one. 
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I agree, the fact that this cost in the $1-$2.0MM range shows you that there are multiple layers of problems here.  Right, wrong or indifferent she will be able to receive care while having the ability to file for BK and start over.  A lot of the blame falls on her for not having any form of insurance.  Hopefully the motorist that hit her has good insurance and/or deep pockets.  Regardless of our medical system, the motorist is at fault here.   

 
sbonomo said:
I agree, the fact that this cost in the $1-$2.0MM range shows you that there are multiple layers of problems here.  Right, wrong or indifferent she will be able to receive care while having the ability to file for BK and start over.  A lot of the blame falls on her for not having any form of insurance.  Hopefully the motorist that hit her has good insurance and/or deep pockets.  Regardless of our medical system, the motorist is at fault here.   
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Terribly sad story.

Would have to agree with the bolded here.  Just taking the facts from the article, she's a 30 year old female.  Even if she can't obtain a subsidy for her coverage she can get a plan there for $325 a month, less than $4k a year.  The story, though, states she has a spouse and between them they have 5 children.  Assuming this family of 7 doesn't earn more than $150k a year, their coverage would be heavily subsidized by the government.  If the family earns less than $92k not only would the premiums be heavily subsidized, so would the deductibles and OOPs.  The only way they wouldn't be getting heavily subsidized coverage is if the family unit earns less than $37k, which I guess is a possibility, but then how are they affording 5 children?

 
sbonomo said:
This is an extremely sad situation.  I am sure that the motorist that hit her will be liable for a large portion of the medical burden.  Not to be the pessimist but, how do you have children and do not have health insurance?  Also, I have many problems with our medical system but to say it is a "joke" because she does not have insurance is a bit odd.  She is getting care, regardless of the ability to pay, so what exactly is the joke?
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The joke is that this system bankrupts people. For being sick. The joke is we pay more than any other advanced country for healthcare and we get worse outcomes. The joke is we have the 5th highest infant mortality rate in the world. And the biggest joke of all is today, if it's an average day, over 100 people will die needlessly because they were unable to get healthcare they needed when they needed it. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.

 
NCCommish said:
This would be an unheard of financial problem in any advanced country on Earth but ours. It's shameful.
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Don't try and be a hero. :rolleyes:  

:sarcasm:

 
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NCCommish said:
The joke is that this system bankrupts people. For being sick. The joke is we pay more than any other advanced country for healthcare and we get worse outcomes. The joke is we have the 5th highest infant mortality rate in the world. And the biggest joke of all is today, if it's an average day, over 100 people will die needlessly because they were unable to get healthcare they needed when they needed it. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.
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:rolleyes:  

Well, go get a job that pays more and provides health insurance. 

 
NCCommish said:
The joke is that this system bankrupts people. For being sick. The joke is we pay more than any other advanced country for healthcare and we get worse outcomes. The joke is we have the 5th highest infant mortality rate in the world. And the biggest joke of all is today, if it's an average day, over 100 people will die needlessly because they were unable to get healthcare they needed when they needed it. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.
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I agree that cost for any type of care is completely out of control.  The hospital and insurance systems are completely broken.   However, i completely disagree that the outcomes are worse than other countries.  The majority of innovation are coming from right here in the USA because we invest heavily in research (some for profit some not).  I do think that something needs to be fixed but I also believe that nationalized healthcare is not the answer.  

 
NCCommish said:
The joke is that this system bankrupts people. For being sick. The joke is we pay more than any other advanced country for healthcare and we get worse outcomes. The joke is we have the 5th highest infant mortality rate in the world. And the biggest joke of all is today, if it's an average day, over 100 people will die needlessly because they were unable to get healthcare they needed when they needed it. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.
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The bolded isn't remotely true.

Maybe you meant to say we have the 5th highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. I am still not sure that would be completely accurate, but it is probably close.

Link to World Bank Data

 
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RedmondLonghorn said:
The bolded isn't remotely true.

Maybe you meant to say we have the 5th highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. I am still not sure that would be completely accurate, but it is probably close.
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Well I wasn't talking just live births but mortality by age 5. I should have been clearer, my bad. If we go strictly by live birth using the CIA's numbers we are somewhere in the 40's as to where we rank. Well behind the EU and Japan.

 
NCCommish said:
Well I wasn't talking just live births but mortality by age 5. I should have been clearer, my bad. If we go strictly by live birth using the CIA's numbers we are somewhere in the 40's as to where we rank. Well behind the EU and Japan.
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On live births we have an infant mortality rate of 6 per 100,000, on par with Serbia, the Slovak Republic, the UAE and Malaysia (great company!). The OECD average is also 6 (dragged down primarily by Turkey and Mexico) and the EU average is 4.

So yeah, there is work to do.

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
On live births we have an infant mortality rate of 6 per 100,000, on par with Serbia, the Slovak Republic, the UAE and Malaysia (great company!). The OECD average is also 6 (dragged down primarily by Turkey and Mexico) and the EU average is 4.

So yeah, there is work to do.
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Absolutely

 
NCCommish said:
This would be an unheard of financial problem in any advanced country on Earth but ours. It's shameful.
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How is it a financial problem? Did the driver not have car insurance? 

For the record, its illegal to not have health insurance. Thanks Obama! 

The system may be bad, but not because of this story. 

 
Cjw_55106 said:
How is it a financial problem? Did the driver not have car insurance? 

For the record, its illegal to not have health insurance. Thanks Obama! 

The system may be bad, but not because of this story. 
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The system is bad regardless. By the way why don't all you guys check your insurance and figure out what the max payout is for medical issues you cause. Unless you are paying a ton for business level insurance it doesn't come anywhere near 1 million. And I doubt suing the average person would get you that either.

 
NCCommish said:
The system is bad regardless. By the way why don't all you guys check your insurance and figure out what the max payout is for medical issues you cause. Unless you are paying a ton for business level insurance it doesn't come anywhere near 1 million. And I doubt suing the average person would get you that either.
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If somebody else causes the injury and that person or entity has insurance, there are your deep pockets.

None of that changes the greater point, however.

Several people have pointed out that in a situation like this the victim is going to get the care they need one way or the other. But the victim will likely experience serious financial hardship, even if another party is found liable and their insurance company eventually pays in full. 

However the hospital and other care providers will probably have to write off some or all of the care, in most scenarios. And guess what? That has a cost. Writing off uncollectible accounts leads to higher charges on other procedures and care on people who can pay. 

I am no expert on health care, but I understand basic economics. That is a substantial inflationary pressure.

 
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Cjw_55106 said:
How is it a financial problem? Did the driver not have car insurance? 

For the record, its illegal to not have health insurance. Thanks Obama! 

The system may be bad, but not because of this story. 
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No, it's not.  You can go without insurance if you wish, you just get charged a penalty to do so (which really isn't enforceable). 

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
However the hospital and other care providers will probably have to write off some or all of the care, in most scenarios. And guess what? That has a cost. Writing off uncollectible accounts leads to higher charges on other procedures and care on people who can pay. 

I am no expert on health care, but I understand basic economics. That is a substantial inflationary pressure.
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That was the point of Obama care. The costs would be spread out to everyone....unless of course you decide to not participate. 

 
NCCommish said:
The system is bad regardless. By the way why don't all you guys check your insurance and figure out what the max payout is for medical issues you cause. Unless you are paying a ton for business level insurance it doesn't come anywhere near 1 million. And I doubt suing the average person would get you that either.
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She just needs to take care of the initial costs.  She can obtain an ACA policy effective June 1 based on a life status change.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
Apparently not to everyone. This lady has no insurance. You assume the hospital will write it off and for all intents, pass it on to everyone else. This lady never really pays. 
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Yeah. That is exactly my point. That is why it is inflationary. 

The ACA actually does make the situation somewhat better, in that fewer totally uninsured people mean fewer charge-offs and therefore less inflationary pressure. I was not a fan of the ACA and there are lots of other problems with it (unintended consequences again), but it did help with this.

 
proninja said:
I have a lot of respect for your political opinions - especially on the economic side - and you're one of the few people that make me check myself when you disagree with me. 

I'm very happy to hear you're coming around on this. 
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Hearing stories like yours, and others who have had similar experiences, have definitely had an impact on my thinking. But this isn't just about empathy either. It is also about pragmatism.  What we have now doesn't work very well, in a wide variety of ways.

To be clear, I still don't believe that "free" healthcare is a fundamental right and I also don't believe the government should be in business of taking care of people in general either. But if the system needs to be rebuilt for pragmatic reasons, then doing so in a way that makes things both more efficient and closes gaps in the system seems like a good set of goals.

 
Fat Nick said:
If some loser I went to high school with can raise $10,000 on Gofundme to cover the court costs of her addict son, then surely this can raise enough too...
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$2 million? Good luck.  

 
sbonomo said:
This is an extremely sad situation.  I am sure that the motorist that hit her will be liable for a large portion of the medical burden.  Not to be the pessimist but, how do you have children and do not have health insurance?  Also, I have many problems with our medical system but to say it is a "joke" because she does not have insurance is a bit odd.  She is getting care, regardless of the ability to pay, so what exactly is the joke?
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The kids are probably insured through Medicaid/CHIP - at least the foster kids will be.  

 
proninja said:
If you think begging for money on the internet is an acceptable health care system, you might be a republican 
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If you think a lady missing two legs facing bankruptcy is an acceptable health care system, you might be a democrat.

 
proninja said:
If you think begging for money on the internet is an acceptable health care system, you might be a republican 
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Personally, just not a big fan of begging for money with sob stories in general.  The only difference between "then" and "now" is the internet allows your story to reach more people.

Henry Ford said:
$2 million? Good luck.  
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Honestly, with the right coverage, these things can raise a TON of money.  $2M, maybe not...but combined with the media pressure on the hospital to pro-bono some of the costs, I bet it could raise enough to get her out of this jam.

 
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