Saints better without Bush? (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

Big topic on the post game show tonight.

More north south running..no trick plays for Bush. Saint ran the ball well.

 

[Wadsworth]

I wouldn't say they are better without Bush, but maybe playing without him for a while will help them rethink how they are using him.

 

[RC94]

They played one of the worst teams in the NFL. With or without Bush, if they want to be a playoff contender, they had better run, pass and do everything else well against a team of this caliber.

 

[drm1125]

Well, it was against the falcons. It's hard to judge.

 

[Afro Samurai]

Yes, it was only the Falcons, but it's pretty obvious that they are better without him.

Payton doesn't call nearly as many of his "this one is doomed to fail but I'm going to call it anyway because there's a 0.00001% chance Reggie could break it for a touchdown" plays. It also forces Brees to actually look down the field and throw it to his receivers instead of just dumping it off to Bush all the time.

In other words, they've been forcing the ball to Bush all season and it's clearly been a detriment to the offense as a whole.

 

[wilked]

Bush sux and is a cancer to the team

I expect the Saints to win out

 

[bcr8f]

They are better using Bush as slash. He's a WR in a RB's body.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Bush is to the NO offense like Troy Paulamalu is to the Steelers D (ignore the A. Smith / NE game). Both are some of the most gifted athletes on the NFL field, but the teams haven't quite figured out how to get the most production out of them and bring chemistry to there respective units when on the field. Steelers are 3wins 1 loss without Troy...2 of the wins were shutouts. Bush didn't play....Stecker runs for 100 yds and offense puts up 31 pts.

 

[greenline]

The Patrick Ewing Theory in play here?

 

[Da Guru]

Steve Young said as much last night. Young stated that Bush is a great talent but are they using him the right way.

Bush is a 8-10 carry a game guy, come in when the defenses have been on the field awhile and use his speed.

 

[John Mamula]

lol at using 1 game against one of the worst teams in the league as a barometer for the saints' offense without bush.

it's like people are trying to be stupid.

 

[SayWhat?]

They're not better without him, because Aaron Stecker is not the talent that Reggie Bush is. That being said, their playcalling seemed to be better without him in last nights game. They obviously didn't feel the need to force the ball to Stecker on swing passes that are designed for failure. Let Brees throw the ball downfield to his WR's, which opens up the running game a bit more.

 

[stbugs]

lol at using 1 game against one of the worst teams in the league as a barometer for the saints' offense without bush.

it's like people are trying to be stupid.

I don't think he has had a great year (I own him in one league, PPR thankfully), but people also seem to forget that he has been playing hurt. Even one of the announcers said the same thing, that over the past few games he just hasn't looked good and we now know why.

It is believed that Bush sustained the injury in a Nov. 4 game against Jacksonville, that he aggravated it in another game, and has played the past month with it.

"It just got to the point, though, where he couldn't [play] anymore," a league source said last week. "He's a tougher kid than people realize, but it was only getting worse. At this point, he's just really beaten up."

.............

The Times-Picayune reports that he'll miss the rest of the season after Dr. James Andrews confirmed the earlier diagnosis of a torn posterior cruciate ligament in his left knee, according to a league source with knowledge of the results. "It's been a very bad knee for about four weeks, and he shouldn't have been playing on it," the source said.

Personally, I think I may be targetting him again next year in PPR leagues as I think his reputation has gone down the toilet. He is still 7th in my PPR league, even without playing at all last night and having his 2 worst games in week 12 and 13 since week 1. If he was healthy the last 3 weeks, he is easily still top 5. The only impact next year is McAllister/other taking some opportunity away, but if healthy all year, he is a mortal lock to be top 10 in PPR leagues.

 

[Sanboy]

much much much better

now instead of wasting time with "

trick " plays to get BUSH The ball they can just play conventional football with one of the most acurate QB 's in todays game ....

BUT

they still need a decent RB .. STECKER can not do much .. last night was a exception ...

 

[Sidewinder]

They're not better without him, because Aaron Stecker is not the talent that Reggie Bush is. That being said, their playcalling seemed to be better without him in last nights game. They obviously didn't feel the need to force the ball to Stecker on swing passes that are designed for failure. Let Brees throw the ball downfield to his WR's, which opens up the running game a bit more.

It's a totally different offensive philosophy without Bush in the game. More often than not, Stecker stayed in for protection last night, where as 8 times out of 10, Bush would have been out of the backfield in the flats for a swing pass or over the middle for a check-down. The trade off is that without Bush, Brees should get more time in the pocket but has one less receiving option. The stats from last night pretty much tell the story: the Saint WRs had over 20 catches between them, where the most catches they had as a group in any other game this year was 18.

 

[Bwanna]

They're not better without him, because Aaron Stecker is not the talent that Reggie Bush is. That being said, their playcalling seemed to be better without him in last nights game. They obviously didn't feel the need to force the ball to Stecker on swing passes that are designed for failure. Let Brees throw the ball downfield to his WR's, which opens up the running game a bit more.

It's a totally different offensive philosophy without Bush in the game. More often than not, Stecker stayed in for protection last night, where as 8 times out of 10, Bush would have been out of the backfield in the flats for a swing pass or over the middle for a check-down. The trade off is that without Bush, Brees should get more time in the pocket but has one less receiving option. The stats from last night pretty much tell the story: the Saint WRs had over 20 catches between them, where the most catches they had as a group in any other game this year was 18.

Yup, as an ex-Bush owner, but also a Brees owner, I'm very happy that 1) Brees' value went up significantly for these last 3 weeks and 2) I don't have to agonize over whether to start Bush every week.Fact is, Bush's injury probably indirectly allowed me to advance to the next round -- I needed 27 fantasy points from Brees last night, and he had 24 by half, ending up with 34.

 

[teamroc]

Clearly they'd rather have Bush healthy.

BUT

The way they force the ball to Bush on short patterns does hurt them. If he's not breaking big plays, they are constantly 2nd/3rd and longs. Last night, they actually went down the field to the WRs. Instead of forcing pass plays to Bush, they ran longer patterns to the WRs. I saw the game 2 weeks ago the first 3 plays were to Bush, 3 and out. At some point you just have to stop trying to force the ball to him when he's not producing.

Next year I can see a decent drop in catches for Bush. He's just not breaking enough big plays to warrant the play calls. Look at Norwood last night. 43 yard catch out of the backfield. Does Bush even have a catch that long this year? Bush 73 catches long of 25. Norwood 25 catches long of 46.

If you get 73 catches, and you're the most explosive player in the league, you need to have a long of more then 25. Bush has ONE catch over 20 yards. Week 11 12 catches with a long of 11 yards. He's simply not breaking any plays open. Yet the Saints keep forcing him the ball.

Without Bush, the Saints are running a normal offense, forgetting about trying to get Bush into good matchups, forget trying to force the ball to Bush, and just play football. And clearly they had one of the better games of the year.

 

[switz]

When Bush was ont he Saints, it really seemed like the coaches weren't thinking bout what play would be best in a situation, but rather - how do we get Reggie involved.

Honestly, looking at some of the play calls last night, if Reggie had been the ball carrier, I think it would have been a bigger play, because it was a better play call.

The coaches need to think about the right call, not the player. Then, the more talented player will make more out of the right play.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Well, it was against the falcons. It's hard to judge.

When you know they are passing down after down and you still can't slow them down -- most of the time that's a bad D rather than a great offence - present Pats team excepted.I do think they spread the ball around a little more effectively than they might with Bush - but I don't think they're neccesarily better over all.Still, something to watch the next few weeks.

 

[Da Guru]

When Bush was ont he Saints, it really seemed like the coaches weren't thinking bout what play would be best in a situation, but rather - how do we get Reggie involved.Honestly, looking at some of the play calls last night, if Reggie had been the ball carrier, I think it would have been a bigger play, because it was a better play call.The coaches need to think about the right call, not the player. Then, the more talented player will make more out of the right play.

I agree somewhat, last night the Saints had third a 5 and ran a quick pitch sweep that picked up 6-7 yards. They never run that play with Bush in that situation. I thought Bush could have beat everybody to the outside for a big gain.They have to stop forcing the ball to Bush in no-win situations.

 

[j ViLLA x PE]

they force the ball to bush so much with dump offs because payton sees a Westbrook in the making. Most of bush's plays are similar to westbrooks. The only difference is Westy makes big plays for scores but bush still hasn't learned to break the first tackle.

 

[switz]

they force the ball to bush so much with dump offs because payton sees a Westbrook in the making. Most of bush's plays are similar to westbrooks. The only difference is Westy makes big plays for scores but bush still hasn't learned to break the first tackle.

That's a pretty ignorant statement, as Bush has broken a number of "first" tackles... problem is when Westbrook gets the ball he only has 1 or 2 people around him, Bush usually has 5-6 because the offense seems to telegraph when plays are going to Bush.Also, on the Bush should only get 10 carries a game, 19-97 game down??

Payton just needs to be focused on calling good plays, not getting Bush the ball.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

We'll see but so far I'd say yes. It's good to see that the Bush apologists are still making excuses for him though.

 

[Tanner9919]

Big topic on the post game show tonight.

More north south running..no trick plays for Bush. Saint ran the ball well.

they *might be better off without him..Sean Payton can't use his razzmatazz BS anymore..he just has to coach the game without worrying about end-arounds, flea flickers, and the old ' how do I get Reggie Bush more involved' questions.

and , next season,when Bush is back, we'll see more of the Aint's as Payton once again tries to out-think himself with trickery, smoke, and mirrors.

 

[Bwanna]

Ultimately, they're not better off without a healthy Bush. They are better off without Bush using him like they've been using him.

Hopefully, they'll realize how he can be better used (slot WR, WR screens, etc.) to augment and complement the type of offense they were able to run last night (in spite of it being against Atlanta).

I.e., if they focus on building an offense around Brees/Colston/TEs/traditional RB and augment that with Bush, they'll do fine. The problem is they appear to have to put Bush at the core and the other components of their offense as decorations.

 

[Colin Dowling]

You guys are dreaming. Bush has not been as good as expected, but as has been said, the issue isn't just about him. The playcalling hasn't done much to help.

 

[John Mamula]

You guys are dreaming. Bush has not been as good as expected, but as has been said, the issue isn't just about him. The playcalling hasn't done much to help.

it depends what context you are talking about. in PPR fantasy he was the #5 RB before this past week. that is pretty damn good.

 

[Breesisdaman]

Wrong. Bush has not been healthy since the Jags game 4 weeks back. He wasnt aware he had a tore PCL until last week however. When Bush is 100% he is the best guy for the Saints although I like him much better with a healthy Deuce to split the load with because it frees Regie up in a way that creates mismatches for defenses. However make no mistake about it, Brees is the cornerstone of our offense regardless of the RB.

To get more into Bush besides his injury, there have been some distractions this year. The investigations into his USC past and possibly losing the Heisman have been a huge distraction. He also broke up with someone. I dont know alot about that but you can read Saintsreport.com superforums to get that info.

 

[Dancing Bear]

Reggie Bush is HYPE and anticipation for breaking the BIG ONE. Which he plain HAS NOT DONE. He is a whole bunch of woulda, shoulda, coulda!

The facts are he has not figured out how to be an NFL RB.

He is averaging 3.7 ypr, and he has had a larger enough number of carries to show that this is what can be expected.

For what the Saints paid him, they way over paid compared with his peers [Addai, Jones-Drew and Peterson].