Saints defense no longer prompts an auto-start for opposing players? (1 Viewer)

[Doug B]

(this is a carryover from a recent Brett Favre thread)

I hope the following isn't too much of a knee-jerk reaction to the Cleveland game ... but change seems to be afoot.

The Saints have the best pash rush no one is talking about. Hollis Thomas manning one DT position looks to be paying huge dividends, as he sucks up two blockers on every passing down. DT Bryan Young and DEs Will Smith and Charles Grant are freed to wreck havoc.

The continuing shuffling of the LB corps is finally starting to pay off -- the LBs in there now are pass coverage demons (especially when Mark Simoneau subs in). The corners are still something of a soft spot until Mike McKenzie steps it back up to his 2003-04 level, but the pass rush is helping the secondary a lot.

The Saints will not finish in the bottom 5 NFL defenses this season -- I look for a mid-range final team defensive ranking this year ... maybe 14th-18th. This squad still has to prove themselves on run defense, IMHO, despite the showing in Cleveland. I am looking forward to seeing the Saints D against GB and ATL in the coming weeks.

 

[saintfool]

i want to believe. really, i do.

 

[Zigg]

5 sacks and countless pressures. If Hollis continues to eat up two blockers, Smith and Grant are going to be huge.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

it was the Browns

who now have like their 10th starting center for the year.

 

[Doug B]

it was the Browns

How have like their 10th starting center for the year.

True, true The question begged is, of course: will every D look that good against the Browns all year long?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

it was the Browns

How have like their 10th starting center for the year.

True, true The question begged is, of course: will every D look that good against the Browns all year long?

YES

 

[jurb26]

Personally, I never saw the Dline as the problem to bedgin with. Heck not even the LBs. It's the DBs that are an eyesore. I don't think speculation on that last line of defence has been clearled up in the least just yet.

 

[Doug B]

Heck not even the LBs.

Ugh ... oh man ... there are a zillion Saints fans out there that beg to differ. Two of our starters from last year are currently out of football (Courtney Watson and Haslett fave Colby Bockwoldt).

 

[jurb26]

Heck not even the LBs.

Ugh ... oh man ... there are a zillion Saints fans out there that beg to differ. Two of our starters from last year are currently out of football (Courtney Watson and Haslett fave Colby Bockwoldt).

Are we talking about last year or this year?

 

[Doug B]

Heck not even the LBs.

Ugh ... oh man ... there are a zillion Saints fans out there that beg to differ. Two of our starters from last year are currently out of football (Courtney Watson and Haslett fave Colby Bockwoldt).

Are we talking about last year or this year?

Both ... I'm considering the overall transition from last year's bottom-3 defense to this year's squad that seems to be much improved.

 

[Muahahaha]

Pardon the ignorance, but were there some big free agent acquistions in New Orleans? Is that why the defense is playing better?

Right now, I am thinking about starting the Cincy D next week, on the theory that it is Cleveland that is bad, not New Orleans that is good. But if there were some big personnel upgrades, I might rethink that theory....

 

[jurb26]

Heck not even the LBs.

Ugh ... oh man ... there are a zillion Saints fans out there that beg to differ. Two of our starters from last year are currently out of football (Courtney Watson and Haslett fave Colby Bockwoldt).

Are we talking about last year or this year?

Both ... I'm considering the overall transition from last year's bottom-3 defense to this year's squad that seems to be much improved.

Ummm, I'm agreeing with you in everything pretty much. All I was saying is that it's the DBs that are the trouble spot. I thought they were last year too. Has that changed? I don't know and think it's still too early to tell.

 

[Doug B]

Pardon the ignorance, but were there some big free agent acquistions in New Orleans? Is that why the defense is playing better?Right now, I am thinking about starting the Cincy D next week, on the theory that it is Cleveland that is bad, not New Orleans that is good. But if there were some big personnel upgrades, I might rethink that theory....

It's not so much big free agent signings. It's been the acquisition of workaday guys that fill needs and fill them solidlyT Hollis ThomasLB Scott FujitaLB Mark Simoneau (via trade)LB Scott Schanle (via trade)LB Danny ClarkS Roman Harper (2nd round 2006)There are some chinks in the armor, of course. Harper is still green in pass coverage, though he is a natural against the run. Schanle and Simoneau are more situational guys than true starters (though Clark and Simoneau will make a nice run/pass platoon). Clark has missed all of Saints camp and has to learn our D on the job. But overall, these guys are well ahead of what the Saints had last year ... and looking to get better.

 

[Sand]

Pardon the ignorance, but were there some big free agent acquistions in New Orleans? Is that why the defense is playing better?Right now, I am thinking about starting the Cincy D next week, on the theory that it is Cleveland that is bad, not New Orleans that is good. But if there were some big personnel upgrades, I might rethink that theory....

The whole linebacking corp is new: Shanle, Fujita, Simoneau, and now Danny Clark (wohoo!). Heck, Danny didn't even play last week and he is definitely the class of the group. I look forward to seeing this defense overperform (I hope).

 

[valhallan]

Heck not even the LBs.

Ugh ... oh man ... there are a zillion Saints fans out there that beg to differ. Two of our starters from last year are currently out of football (Courtney Watson and Haslett fave Colby Bockwoldt).

Are we talking about last year or this year?

Both ... I'm considering the overall transition from last year's bottom-3 defense to this year's squad that seems to be much improved.

Ummm, I'm agreeing with you in everything pretty much. All I was saying is that it's the DBs that are the trouble spot. I thought they were last year too. Has that changed? I don't know and think it's still too early to tell.

Many Saints fans would differ on the LBs. The were horrible last year and for several years before that. When your safeties are routinely leading the team in tackles, you have LB issues.

 

[Doug B]

Ummm, I'm agreeing with you in everything pretty much. All I was saying is that it's the DBs that are the trouble spot. I thought they were last year too. Has that changed? I don't know and think it's still too early to tell.

All with the secondary hinges on Mike McKenzie. I knew he was never Deion Sanders ... but he seemed to be a much better one-on-one defender for the Packers than he has been for the Saints. He has shown flashes here, but has not yet brought it every week. If he returns to his Packers' form, a lot will be rectified in one fell swoop.I worry about rookie strong safety Roman Harper in pass coverage -- he's not yet internalized the packages, and he's doing a lot of thinking out there instead of reacting. Hopefully, that will come with time.

 

[Muahahaha]

Thanks for the quick response, guys. Makes me think the Saints might be the real deal. I'm one to believe that wholesale changes in defenses are usually due to changes in personnel, not scheme...

 

[Doug B]

Bump for evening conversation.

 

[Zigg]

Personally, I enjoyed not seeing any Saints getting dragged 5 or 6 yards by running backs. The yards after solid contact last year must have been brutal.

 

[Doug B]

Personally, I enjoyed not seeing any Saints getting dragged 5 or 6 yards by running backs. The yards after solid contact last year must have been brutal.

... Watson and Bockwoldt last season I remembered from playing in an IDP league a few years ago that Scott Fujita was a tackling machine. What I didn't know is whether or not he plugged holes well and made a lot of tackles within a yard or two if the LOS ... or whether he was nabbing guys 5 yards downfield. Looks more like the former so far Scott Shanle and Roman Harper are the guys flying under the radar on run defense, though ... those guys get their hats to the hole in a hurry and aren't shy about laying the lumber.

 

[War Eagle]

The BRowns suck......they made NO look better than they are!

I just picked up Favre and I'm starting him this week at home vs NO.

He'll burn them for at least 2 TDs.

 

[Doug B]

The BRowns suck......they made NO look better than they are!

I just picked up Favre and I'm starting him this week at home vs NO.

He'll burn them for at least 2 TDs.

Hey, War Eagle ... it's on Week 3

 

[ryoly]

New Orleans at Green Bay, it's on...wk 2.....

 

[War Eagle]

The BRowns suck......they made NO look better than they are!

I just picked up Favre and I'm starting him this week at home vs NO.

He'll burn them for at least 2 TDs.

Hey, War Eagle ... it's on Week 3

Sorry, but to what are you referring?

 

[Doug B]

The BRowns suck......they made NO look better than they are!

I just picked up Favre and I'm starting him this week at home vs NO.

He'll burn them for at least 2 TDs.

Hey, War Eagle ... it's on Week 3

Sorry, but to what are you referring?

Falcons at Saints, Monday Night Football

 

[Doug B]

New Orleans at Green Bay, it's on...wk 2.....

Should the Saints D perform well Sunday, people will still withhold giving much credit. Not until Atlanta in Week 3 will the Saints face a respected offensive squad.

 

[War Eagle]

The BRowns suck......they made NO look better than they are!

I just picked up Favre and I'm starting him this week at home vs NO.

He'll burn them for at least 2 TDs.

Hey, War Eagle ... it's on Week 3

Sorry, but to what are you referring?

Falcons at Saints, Monday Night Football

Oh DEFINITELY! It's already been broughten!

 

[saintfool]

The BRowns suck......they made NO look better than they are!

I just picked up Favre and I'm starting him this week at home vs NO.

He'll burn them for at least 2 TDs.

Hey, War Eagle ... it's on Week 3

Sorry, but to what are you referring?

Falcons at Saints, Monday Night Football

Oh DEFINITELY! It's already been broughten!

i will be there!

 

[doughboydeluxe]

The BRowns suck......they made NO look better than they are!

I just picked up Favre and I'm starting him this week at home vs NO.

He'll burn them for at least 2 TDs.

Hey, War Eagle ... it's on Week 3

Sorry, but to what are you referring?

Falcons at Saints, Monday Night Football

Oh DEFINITELY! It's already been broughten!

i will be there!

I would love for the Saints to win at GB just so they can go into their home opener at 2-0. First game back in the Superdome after Katrina... home opener... Reggie Bush regular season home debut... playing for the outright division lead... Monday night... talk about a place being jacked up.

 

[blenderfrog]

i want to believe. really, i do.

Me too, I watched parts of the game Sunday, and the defense looked quick! And they were hitting hard. Those 2 characteristics haven't been seen together on the Saints Defense the last several years.

 

[Doug B]

i want to believe. really, i do.

Me too, I watched parts of the game Sunday, and the defense looked quick! And they were hitting hard. Those 2 characteristics haven't been seen together on the Saints Defense the last several years.

And on top of that, our corners were actually blanketing WRs. Even McKenzie! As far as I'm concerned ... 2005 was the Pleistocene Era.

 

[Snot Bubbler]

The Saints D simply dominated the Falcons Monday night.

 

[Keys Myaths]

The Saints D simply dominated the Falcons Monday night.

Yep.Whether you want to believe it's a permanent trend or not, you can't deny that.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Similar to the Vikings, I think the team may have had talent but suffered from bad scheme/coaching.

 

[Domepatrol]

They stayed home, not allowing cut backs, and tackled better than I have seen since the Mora days. Good defense, and no Carl Smith!

 

[Ahmad Rashad]

The Saints D definitely looked great last night. It was inspiring to see them play so well in such a symbolic game.

A couple of offshoots from this game are that Favre looks like he's for real this season, and Vick & co. are mortal. Aside from a poor first game against the tough Chicago D, where he only had 5 passes the whole first half (and was 5 for 5), Favre's looked in top form. Apparently, the coaching staff has moved away from the idea that they have to be a predominantly running team to win. Their offense has looked much better when passing more the last couple of games, including his 340 yards and 3 TD's against the Saints last week.

Vick looked unstoppable the first two weeks, but the Saints did an awesome job of containing him. Maybe other teams will follow the Saints' game plan and be able to limit Vick & co. the rest of the season, at least more than in the first two weeks.

Upgrade the Saints D and Favre, and downgrade Vick and Dunn from all-universe status.

 

[Doug B]

Similar to the Vikings, I think the team may have had talent but suffered from bad scheme/coaching.

Well, don't forget now ... the current Saints defense does not have all the same players as the 2005 squad. All three starting LBs are new (Fujita, Simoneau, Shanle), as is the next LB in the rotation (Danny Clark). Solid DT Hollis Thomas was added. Former first-round DE Will Smith went from situational replacement to a full-time player. And finally, rookie SS Roman Harper is developing at lightning speed, catching on well enough to be trusted with the role of shadowing Vick on many plays last night.

 

[guderian]

They stayed home, not allowing cut backs, and tackled better than I have seen since the Mora days. Good defense, and no Carl Smith!

What is this "tackle" thing you speak of? I vaguely recall seeing those in the distant past. Is that when a defensive player wraps up an offensive player and brings him to the ground instead of trying to get the ESPN highlight reel "knock out" play?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Similar to the Vikings, I think the team may have had talent but suffered from bad scheme/coaching.

Well, don't forget now ... the current Saints defense does not have all the same players as the 2005 squad. All three starting LBs are new (Fujita, Simoneau, Shanle), as is the next LB in the rotation (Danny Clark). Solid DT Hollis Thomas was added. Former first-round DE Will Smith went from situational replacement to a full-time player. And finally, rookie SS Roman Harper is developing at lightning speed, catching on well enough to be trusted with the role of shadowing Vick on many plays last night.

True dat. Did anyone catch last night when Kornheiser called Fujita, Fajita? Funny stuff.

 

[valhallan]

It's amazing what happens when you go out and get NFL quality linebackers. I always joked last year that the Saints starting LBs wouldn't even make another NFL team. So let's see.. Watson is out of the league, Bockwoldt is a backup on Tennessee, and Allen hasn't seen the field yet for the Saints. Heh.

 

[Doug B]

It's amazing what happens when you go out and get NFL quality linebackers. I always joked last year that the Saints starting LBs wouldn't even make another NFL team. So let's see.. Watson is out of the league, Bockwoldt is a backup on Tennessee, and Allen hasn't seen the field yet for the Saints. Heh.

 

[Gargoylez]

Guarenteed.

Next week they will be back to giving up 350 yards and 20+ points.

That game last night was pathetic. Atlanta might as well of forfeited.

If your judging the Saints defense on last nights games, you need to realize what was going on for this home opener and not judge it as a normal everyday game.

 

[Doug B]

Guarenteed.Next week they will be back to giving up 350 yards and 20+ points.

 

[valhallan]

Guarenteed.Next week they will be back to giving up 350 yards and 20+ points.That game last night was pathetic. Atlanta might as well of forfeited.If your judging the Saints defense on last nights games, you need to realize what was going on for this home opener and not judge it as a normal everyday game.

Says the guy who owns Vick..

 

[renesauz]

While the Saints defense is probably not as good as they've looked so far, there is no way to deny the fact that they are SIGNIFICANTLY improved, mostly because of the linebacker play. More impressive to me last night was the CB play. While Atlanta doesn't exactly field the most frightful of recievers, the CB's were superb in that game. Even when he had time, Vick had nowhere to go with the ball.

I'm thinking NO defense ends middle of the pack at worst, and cracking the top ten is not completely out of the question.

 

[guderian]

Guarenteed.Next week they will be back to giving up 350 yards and 20+ points.That game last night was pathetic. Atlanta might as well of forfeited.If your judging the Saints defense on last nights games, you need to realize what was going on for this home opener and not judge it as a normal everyday game.

Check out the first line in his signature...

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Linebackers, gentlemen. Linebackers are the key to a defense. The Bucs knew it, the Ravens know it, the Bears have always known it, and now you know it. If your linebackers can tackle AND cover, you can play D in this league.

 

[Gargoylez]

Guarenteed.Next week they will be back to giving up 350 yards and 20+ points.That game last night was pathetic. Atlanta might as well of forfeited.If your judging the Saints defense on last nights games, you need to realize what was going on for this home opener and not judge it as a normal everyday game.

Check out the first line in his signature...

Ok. SO What?But to each is own. When they play a decent team and its not the home opener after katrina... Look for another shoot out.I wish you guys were in my league being that niave.

 

[Gargoylez]

Linebackers, gentlemen. Linebackers are the key to a defense. The Bucs knew it, the Ravens know it, the Bears have always known it, and now you know it. If your linebackers can tackle AND cover, you can play D in this league.

I disagree... your front 4 is the key.Ray lewis was rendered average when the Ravens front 4 sucked.Getting solid play from your Defensive line and especially your DT's is KEY to any LB to be successful. Otherwise they are taking on Tackles and guards and your safties are running around making plays.Just my opinion.

 

[Doug B]

Linebackers, gentlemen. Linebackers are the key to a defense. The Bucs knew it, the Ravens know it, the Bears have always known it, and now you know it. If your linebackers can tackle AND cover, you can play D in this league.

I disagree... your front 4 is the key.Ray lewis was rendered average when the Ravens front 4 sucked.Getting solid play from your Defensive line and especially your DT's is KEY to any LB to be successful. Otherwise they are taking on Tackles and guards and your safties are running around making plays.Just my opinion.

The Saints front four is playing lights out as well. The addition of fireplug DT Hollis Thomas has made life a lot easier for fellow tackle Brian Young (3.5 sacks). Will Smith is now a full-time starter at DE. On the other end, former first-rounder Charles Grant is healthy and back to his 2004 form.The entire front seven, plus the defensive scheme itself, has been overhauled since 2005. Everything is different about this defense ... 2005 is way back in the rear-view mirror now.