Saints RB Bush Likely To Hold-Out Of Camp? (1 Viewer)

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Interesting that Lendale is getting all the bad press for being immature.

 

[Azzurri]

HONDA..OLD NEWS. ALLREADY A THREAD ABOUT THIS BY JOE

 

[Azzurri]

NFL Live on ESPN reported Bush wants more than #1 got. I could see this easily going a couple of weeks into camp, maybe as long as Cedric Benson's went.

NO is definitely not dealing Michael Bennett anytime soon. He's their only known RB at this point.

NO WAY! DID THEY REALLY REPORT THIS? COME ON, YOUR KIDDING RIGHT? NFL LIVE SAID THAT, WOW THEY GOT THE SCOOP HUH? NOT EVEN JOE BRYANT KNEW THAT!!!

 

[Azzurri]

From the Footballguys News Blogger:

Mike Ornstein, the marketing agent for New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush, said recently that his client is unlikely to agree to terms with the team prior to the opening of Training Camp on July 27. "Do we feel like he'll be there at the start (of Training Camp)?" Ornstein said. "I'm not sure where we are right now. I'd say probably not, at this stage."

Source: http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll...SPORTS/60719024

Wasn't there a thread about this like a week ago here?

 

[Azzurri]

Historically, the Saints are one of the league's cheapest teams. They are not frugal nor are they thrifty. They are cheap.

...

Historically one of the cheapest teams ? That is simply not the case if you are talking recent history, say the past 5 or 6 years. And beyond that timeframe, it's simply not a valid relevant measue.

I worked for them and with them two different times. Given that was in contract/player management each time and still have a relative working on the football side of the house, I feel what I wrote was highly accurate and I stand by it.

don't stand to high around here becuase you will be put on your back side but quick when big J *thinks* he knows more than you. Be careful.

 

[dickey moe]

Who the hell is this guy?

 

[WhoDat]

Historically, the Saints are one of the league's cheapest teams.  They are not frugal nor are they thrifty.  They are cheap. 

...

Historically one of the cheapest teams ? That is simply not the case if you are talking recent history, say the past 5 or 6 years. And beyond that timeframe, it's simply not a valid relevant measue.

I worked for them and with them two different times. Given that was in contract/player management each time and still have a relative working on the football side of the house, I feel what I wrote was highly accurate and I stand by it.

don't stand to high around here becuase you will be put on your back side but quick when big J *thinks* he knows more than you. Be careful.

I have never had a reason to get sideways with anyone that works for or runs the site nor have they had a reason to get sideways with me. I think everyone is good with the small bit of Saints news I drop from time to time. I am pretty sure it is not what you say but how you say it that matters.

 

[Azzurri]

Bush should have been the #1 player selected so he deserves to get paid like the #1 selected.

Go get that money Reggie!

But he was #2. So #2 money is what he gets.

XWe'll see about that.

He wil get more money than Mario Willaims got or he won't play for N.O. I got this from the best source there is, no not Joe Bryant or his perfect email mailings, sorry.

 

[Azzurri]

Bush should have been the #1 player selected so he deserves to get paid like the #1 selected.

Go get that money Reggie!

But he was #2. So #2 money is what he gets.

XWe'll see about that.

I hope this is schtick.

What a clown this disel dude is, your clueless kid, go away. HE WON'T SIGN IN N.O. FOR A PENNNY LESS THAN WILLAIMS GOT AND NOT EVEN A FEW MILLION MORE..HOW ABOUT THAT CLOWN BOY? THINK THIS IS SCHTICK? ANOTHER NEVER WRONG WANNABEE AROUND HERE, MAKE ME SICK LAUGHING AT YOU.

 

[Azzurri]

Who the hell is this guy?

UH OH. big mistake huh knowing more and having a better opinion than the almighty around these parts ay? Yep, huge mistake. Let me go away now J will be in soon to set you all straight on this matter. Sorry Dickey I should have known better.

 

[gman8343]

 

[TheLaw]

Who the hell is this guy?

UH OH. big mistake huh knowing more and having a better opinion than the almighty around these parts ay? Yep, huge mistake. Let me go away now J will be in soon to set you all straight on this matter. Sorry Dickey I should have known better.

FORZA AZZURI!!

 

[Sidewinder]

Looks like Reggie may be more foolish than some here thought ...

Reggie may sit out 2006 and wait for 2007 ...

Cole was on a local New Orleans sports wrap-up show last night. He wouldn't divulge his "source" but readily admitted that Reggie holding out the entire season was basically a farce with "a 99.9% chance that it would not happen". Kinda makes one wonder what his motivations for writing it at all were.

Did you hear the interview? What station was it on, and if you didn't hear it, what is your source?

Yes. "4th Down on 4" (WWLTV - NOLA CBS, I assume you already know that) last night.

 

[thayman]

Bush should have been the #1 player selected so he deserves to get paid like the #1 selected.

Go get that money Reggie!

But he was #2. So #2 money is what he gets.

XWe'll see about that.

I hope this is schtick.

What a clown this disel dude is, your clueless kid, go away. HE WON'T SIGN IN N.O. FOR A PENNNY LESS THAN WILLAIMS GOT AND NOT EVEN A FEW MILLION MORE..HOW ABOUT THAT CLOWN BOY? THINK THIS IS SCHTICK? ANOTHER NEVER WRONG WANNABEE AROUND HERE, MAKE ME SICK LAUGHING AT YOU.

holy crap..have a coke and relax....it is ok......

 

[Bob_Magaw]

I would think bush needs a contract like Ricky got from the saints.. yah, didn't work so good for him.... but an heavy incentive contract should allow bush to make equal (whatever that is) to the #1, why? i dunno, cause he won't hit the incentives.. my math, he is better than the first pick, BUT, he was the second. I know nothin about rookie contracts, are the only three year? or is that the NBA.. if he can go longer...

I would think, he wants to "give" to the team and the area, and make a name for himself, it would suit his best interests to look at a 5+ year deal, with accellerators that make him stupid dollars in year 3+ should his first two be everything he thinks it can... i would think his agent would accept no less gauranteed money than what Mario got.. that would be the sticking point.

i believe master P is available if the need should arise for him to negotiate any more contracts like that one...

 

[Swamprat]

Today's New Orleans Times Picayune reports Bush talks 'proceeding on a normal course'

 

[Arm Chair Express]

Looks like Reggie may be more foolish than some here thought ...

Reggie may sit out 2006 and wait for 2007 ...

Cole was on a local New Orleans sports wrap-up show last night. He wouldn't divulge his "source" but readily admitted that Reggie holding out the entire season was basically a farce with "a 99.9% chance that it would not happen". Kinda makes one wonder what his motivations for writing it at all were.

To try to bring down Bush's value in his fantasy league!

 

[T Man]

I suggested offering Bush a 20% increase over last year's #2 (Ronnie Brown)- the rate the NFLPA has said is a fair increase. Many of you balked. The issue would be how to get him in the rookie cap since the few first rounders who have signed appear to be getting 6-10% increases. I agree, but the problem is that many feel BEnson is cheap. To take the high ground away from Bush, Benson has to offer an increase of at least 10% if not more IMHO.

Of course some of you have also suggested that Bush will hold out until he gets more then Mario Williams. While I understand why he wants it, I cannot see how he gets Williams money or MORE as some said.

Mario's deal is $54 million over 6 years with $26.5 million guaranteed. His deal was IIRC was valued at a 10% increase over Alex Smith's deal a year ago.

If a 20% increase is given to Brown's deal it would be approximately:

5 years $40.4 million with $23.49 million guaranteed OR

6 years $48.48 million with $28.18 million guaranteed.

THus, even with a 20% increase over last years #2 overall pick (who was also a RB), Bush cannot surpass the money given to Williams (although the guaranteed $ is a bit higher).

No NFL running back has ever received more then $21 million in guaranteed money - and that was LT.

To get more then Williams, New Orleans would have to give Bush an increase of

(1) A 35% increase in salary and a 36% increase in guaranteed money over the RB selected in the same slot last year

AND

(2) A 10% increase over the salary and guarantees given the QB selected one slot higher last eyar.

If the Saints give Bush a 35% increase, I can't see how they sign their other picks given the rookie pool increased a mere 5%. And, if he got that he would be BY FAR the highest paid RB in the game especially when you consider that last couple of years of LTs contract likely have highly inflated salaries. I just can't see how he get's #1 money.

 

[Sand]

Looks like Reggie may be more foolish than some here thought ...

Reggie may sit out 2006 and wait for 2007 ...

Cole was on a local New Orleans sports wrap-up show last night. He wouldn't divulge his "source" but readily admitted that Reggie holding out the entire season was basically a farce with "a 99.9% chance that it would not happen". Kinda makes one wonder what his motivations for writing it at all were.

To try to bring down Bush's value in his fantasy league!

I don't think Bush is really thinking about holding out - he just bought a houseoydras St. 3, Unit 12-C. Succession of Roy Joseph Mossy to Reginald Alfred Bush, $1,800,000.

http://www.nola.com/business/t-p/index.ssf...ll=1&thispage=2

 

[Dancing Bear]

No longer a leg to stand on ...

Reggie Bush no longer has any real leverage as the #1 and #3 have now both signed and bracketed him.

There is no way that New Orleans is going to pay him what he demands and in my opinion there is a very high probability that he sits the season unless he comes to his senses and accepts fair market value [better than 50%]!

Some here have called his self promotion smart, but to me you can only sell potential and futures so far ... He is out on a limb with a saw, cutting through the same limb and dangerously close to cutting through ...

 

[FreeBaGeL]

No longer a leg to stand on ...

Reggie Bush no longer has any real leverage as the #1 and #3 have now both signed and bracketed him.

There is no way that New Orleans is going to pay him what he demands and in my opinion there is a very high probability that he sits the season unless he comes to his senses and accepts fair market value [better than 50%]!

Some here have called his self promotion smart, but to me you can only sell potential and futures so far ... He is out on a limb with a saw, cutting through the same limb and dangerously close to cutting through ...

Didn't Young, the 3rd pick, get almost as much guaranteed cash as Mario and more overall? I'm thinking that this only makes Bush think he's more likely to get more than Mario as Young's deal was a lot closer to the #1's than the #3 has been to the #1 in years.

 

[rzrback77]

I suggested offering Bush a 20% increase over last year's #2 (Ronnie Brown)- the rate the NFLPA has said is a fair increase. Many of you balked. The issue would be how to get him in the rookie cap since the few first rounders who have signed appear to be getting 6-10% increases. I agree, but the problem is that many feel BEnson is cheap. To take the high ground away from Bush, Benson has to offer an increase of at least 10% if not more IMHO.

Of course some of you have also suggested that Bush will hold out until he gets more then Mario Williams. While I understand why he wants it, I cannot see how he gets Williams money or MORE as some said.

Mario's deal is $54 million over 6 years with $26.5 million guaranteed. His deal was IIRC was valued at a 10% increase over Alex Smith's deal a year ago.

If a 20% increase is given to Brown's deal it would be approximately:

5 years $40.4 million with $23.49 million guaranteed OR

6 years $48.48 million with $28.18 million guaranteed.

THus, even with a 20% increase over last years #2 overall pick (who was also a RB), Bush cannot surpass the money given to Williams (although the guaranteed $ is a bit higher).

No NFL running back has ever received more then $21 million in guaranteed money - and that was LT.

To get more then Williams, New Orleans would have to give Bush an increase of

(1) A 35% increase in salary and a 36% increase in guaranteed money over the RB selected in the same slot last year

AND

(2) A 10% increase over the salary and guarantees given the QB selected one slot higher last eyar.

If the Saints give Bush a 35% increase, I can't see how they sign their other picks given the rookie pool increased a mere 5%. And, if he got that he would be BY FAR the highest paid RB in the game especially when you consider that last couple of years of LTs contract likely have highly inflated salaries. I just can't see how he get's #1 money.

From the beginning Bush's negotiating team has been repeating that Benson told Reggie on draft day that he considered him the #1 pick. That is what Bush is seeking. He will not be in Jackson for the Camp and will continue to hold out intil he gets a "#1 type offer". After all, he is still the Heisman Winner and needs to one-up VY once again. I think that Bush still feels like he holds the cards.

 

[thayman]

No longer a leg to stand on ...

Reggie Bush no longer has any real leverage as the #1 and #3 have now both signed and bracketed him.

There is no way that New Orleans is going to pay him what he demands and in my opinion there is a very high probability that he sits the season unless he comes to his senses and accepts fair market value [better than 50%]!

Some here have called his self promotion smart, but to me you can only sell potential and futures so far ...  He is out on a limb with a saw, cutting through the same limb and dangerously close to cutting through ...

It actually gives him far more leverage it is $58 million dollar deal including incentives, and of that $25.74 is guaranteed he can now put pressure on the Saints that they have to pay him more than that. If they offer less the Saints quite easily become the bad guys, and Reggie can just say "hey the offered me less than the #3 pick"edit to add.....put down the Reggie Bush Haterade....did he shoot your dog or something???

 

[noneother]

last night on NFL TA, they made it sound like he more than likely could be there by the end of next week.. it's all speculation by all of us..

i came away with the impression (see icon's two cent thread) that there is 80% certainity he is signed by aug 4th..

just what i took away from the report

 

[#1DetroitFan]

last night on NFL TA, they made it sound like he more than likely could be there by the end of next week.. it's all speculation by all of us..

i came away with the impression (see icon's two cent thread) that there is 80% certainity he is signed by aug 4th..

just what i took away from the report

Do you think it is the agent pushing this?

 

[noneother]

last night on NFL TA, they made it sound like he more than likely could be there by the end of next week.. it's all speculation by all of us..

i came away with the impression (see icon's two cent thread) that there is 80% certainity he is signed by aug 4th..

just what i took away from the report

Do you think it is the agent pushing this?

don't know.. would the agent want it to appear closer or father away to the public? i could argue either side

 

[Sidewinder]

I found this interesting:

L.A. Times article

...

Agent Leigh Steinberg said it's typically easier for running backs to get up to speed after missing part of training camp than it is for, say, a quarterback or offensive lineman. And, he said, teams sometimes have incentive to drag their feet in negotiating with ballcarriers.

"There's a theory that with certain key high-round running backs, teams might not be champing at the bit to expose them to every last hit of training camp," Steinberg said.

He recalled a time he was negotiating a contract for a high-profile running back and, even though camp had already started, he couldn't generate any momentum in the talks.

"I became convinced that the general manager had a date circled on his calendar," Steinberg said, "and he didn't want the player to report until then."

 

[Birdie048]

No longer a leg to stand on ...

Reggie Bush no longer has any real leverage as the #1 and #3 have now both signed and bracketed him.

There is no way that New Orleans is going to pay him what he demands and in my opinion there is a very high probability that he sits the season unless he comes to his senses and accepts fair market value [better than 50%]!

Some here have called his self promotion smart, but to me you can only sell potential and futures so far ...  He is out on a limb with a saw, cutting through the same limb and dangerously close to cutting through ...

It actually gives him far more leverage it is $58 million dollar deal including incentives, and of that $25.74 is guaranteed he can now put pressure on the Saints that they have to pay him more than that. If they offer less the Saints quite easily become the bad guys, and Reggie can just say "hey the offered me less than the #3 pick"edit to add.....put down the Reggie Bush Haterade....did he shoot your dog or something???

A key point that many of you are forgetting was that 1 factor Houston passed on Bush was his initial contract demands...IIRC, he wanted $55M with $30M guaranteed and $20M up front. Now, while the overall $ is not the problem, the $20M up front would cause their cap a serious issue. How can you account for such a high $ for a single player?!?!

Just speculation here, but I expect Bush to sign next weekend, Saturday Aug 5 and receive an overall $ higher than MW #1, but just pennies more than VY at #3. The issue will be the upfront $, not the whole guaranteed amount.

I could not find the article on Houston's part of Bush's demands, but here is a thread that covers part of it....

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...opic=242587&hl=

and another on his $$ demands....

http://www.fflivewire.com/Article.asp?ID=z...20like%20a%20QB

Bush will get his $... NOS has little choice at this point. They are being bent over IMO.

 

[NoFBinLA]

No longer a leg to stand on ...

Reggie Bush no longer has any real leverage as the #1 and #3 have now both signed and bracketed him.

There is no way that New Orleans is going to pay him what he demands and in my opinion there is a very high probability that he sits the season unless he comes to his senses and accepts fair market value [better than 50%]!

Some here have called his self promotion smart, but to me you can only sell potential and futures so far ...  He is out on a limb with a saw, cutting through the same limb and dangerously close to cutting through ...

Didn't Young, the 3rd pick, get almost as much guaranteed cash as Mario and more overall? I'm thinking that this only makes Bush think he's more likely to get more than Mario as Young's deal was a lot closer to the #1's than the #3 has been to the #1 in years.

That's the way I read it. So really, sounds like Williams jumped a little soon, no? Took what he could and ran. And with Bush, now NO will have to match AY's contract in some way shape or form (not so much William's), since he (bush) got picked before AY.I think it'll all be worked out in the next week, week and a half.

This is business for rookie top picks as usual. Nothing to see here. Please move along.

Also: I'm actually really impressed how quick the first round is signing - seems like a few more straggled into the camps late than will this year...

(edited for clarity's sake)

 

[Sidewinder]

A key point that many of you are forgetting was that 1 factor Houston passed on Bush was his initial contract demands...

...

So says you. I'll post this again, for about the fifth or sixth time. Please read Paul Attner's article in TSN. Believe it or not, your choice. See link below.

...

I could not find the article on Houston's part of Bush's demands...

TSN article - Attner

...Since March, the Sporting News has been given inside access to the decision-making process that led to the Texans' selection of Williams. This is the story of how they arrived at what will be remembered as one of the most controversial choices in NFL draft history...

The coaches are split, but seven of 10 scouts would take Bush. Negotiator Danny Ferens reports he is making significant progress with Segal (Bush's agent), but Dogra (Williams' agent) still is not enthusiastic. On Tuesday, Casserly calls McNair and tells him he would select Williams. The owner wants to think about it. On Wednesday, the Bush camp embraces a six-year, $54 million contract but wants $28 million guaranteed; the Texans offer $26 million. Dogra also wants $28 million guaranteed. On the same day, Kubiak and Casserly decide on Williams. Both agree their defense has greater need. McNair is flying to New York; they will seek his OK in the morning. ...

 

[thayman]

A key point that many of you are forgetting was that 1 factor Houston passed on Bush was his initial contract demands...

...

So says you. I'll post this again, for about the fifth or sixth time. Please read Paul Attner's article in TSN. Believe it or not, your choice. See link below.

...

I could not find the article on Houston's part of Bush's demands...

TSN article - Attner

...Since March, the Sporting News has been given inside access to the decision-making process that led to the Texans' selection of Williams. This is the story of how they arrived at what will be remembered as one of the most controversial choices in NFL draft history...

The coaches are split, but seven of 10 scouts would take Bush. Negotiator Danny Ferens reports he is making significant progress with Segal (Bush's agent), but Dogra (Williams' agent) still is not enthusiastic. On Tuesday, Casserly calls McNair and tells him he would select Williams. The owner wants to think about it. On Wednesday, the Bush camp embraces a six-year, $54 million contract but wants $28 million guaranteed; the Texans offer $26 million. Dogra also wants $28 million guaranteed. On the same day, Kubiak and Casserly decide on Williams. Both agree their defense has greater need. McNair is flying to New York; they will seek his OK in the morning. ...

This seems to be happening alot......Lots of "I read an article/it was well reported that Bush wanted $10 Billion" but no one can ever find a link.......

 

[easy like sunday morning]

No longer a leg to stand on ...

Reggie Bush no longer has any real leverage as the #1 and #3 have now both signed and bracketed him.

There is no way that New Orleans is going to pay him what he demands and in my opinion there is a very high probability that he sits the season unless he comes to his senses and accepts fair market value [better than 50%]!

Some here have called his self promotion smart, but to me you can only sell potential and futures so far ...  He is out on a limb with a saw, cutting through the same limb and dangerously close to cutting through ...

Didn't Young, the 3rd pick, get almost as much guaranteed cash as Mario and more overall? I'm thinking that this only makes Bush think he's more likely to get more than Mario as Young's deal was a lot closer to the #1's than the #3 has been to the #1 in years.

Young got less guaranteed money but has the potential to make a few million more in the end.

 

[FBGPoker]

The VY signing makes it highly likely Bush gets signed soon.

Both parties have a blueprint to work off of now, makes it much easier.

 

[T Man]

No longer a leg to stand on ...

Reggie Bush no longer has any real leverage as the #1 and #3 have now both signed and bracketed him.

There is no way that New Orleans is going to pay him what he demands and in my opinion there is a very high probability that he sits the season unless he comes to his senses and accepts fair market value [better than 50%]!

Some here have called his self promotion smart, but to me you can only sell potential and futures so far ...  He is out on a limb with a saw, cutting through the same limb and dangerously close to cutting through ...

Didn't Young, the 3rd pick, get almost as much guaranteed cash as Mario and more overall? I'm thinking that this only makes Bush think he's more likely to get more than Mario as Young's deal was a lot closer to the #1's than the #3 has been to the #1 in years.

Young got less guaranteed money but has the potential to make a few million more in the end.

Actually, VY got less guaranteed money and the potential to make more ($58M) then Williams' BASE SALARY ($54M), BUT Williams also has the potential to make up to $62M. Comparing what VY's might be worth to what Williams' is worth is comparing apples to oranges. You either have to compare VYs base to Williams base or VYs "worth up to" amount to Williams' "worth up to" amount.

The VY deal is not "better" then the William's deal. Like many contracts, the agent is talking it up so that he can save the press clippings and use it for recruiting next years rookies.