Saints vs. Bears (1 Viewer)

[pantagrapher]

FYI, Seattle had no play over 25 yards. That's the game plan and they executed. No big plays for Saints, no wins. They can't grind it on the grass.

What do you base this on? Sure, the Siants have several players on offense with big play ability, but I'm sure they'd be just as happy to exploit the Bears D in smaller bites, the same way Seattle did.

 

[Hamstring]

Seattle lost. If the Saints don't get a big plays they won't win. They aren't as balanced or strong in the 3 areas. They just look lopsided to me. Not to mention everyone falls in love with teams that just score.

Its more fun to root for teams to score.

 

[boubucarow]

The Saints are very capable of beating the Bears.

In fact, I think the Saints match up better with the Bears than they do with Philly. Neither of the Bears RB's are game breakers like Westbrook and Grossman is not even in Garcia's league. Berrian is a threat and the one thing that Grossman seems to do well is throw the deep ball. That could hurt the Saints, but does anybody really think the Bears are gonna make a living driving the ball 80 yards all game?

If the Saints don't turn the ball over, I think they win this one. The key is to run Deuce and don't turn the ball over. Make Grossman have to drive the Bears the length of the field consistently and don't let Devon Hester make any plays.

With the leagues best special teams unit, the Bears likely will often acquire the ball with much less than 80 yards to go for a score. In addition, are Betts, Jamal Lewis, or Rudi Johnson gamebreakers like Westbrook, because they all rushed over 100 yards vs the Saints this year. If Jones/Benson are over 100 yards and the Saints are not allowed to sit in a deep shell, Grossman has the ability to take advantage. And while Grossman is not the overall QB that Garcia is right now, he can throw it on a string 50+ yards down the field. By the way, those 50+ yard bombs could go to Berrian, Davis, or Bradley (if healthy) so the Saints will not be able to hide a struggling defensive back or concentrate on one receiver deep. Either the entire Saints secondary has to be playing well or consistent pressure must be in Grossman's face; if not, it is likely the Bears get big chunks of yardage in the passing game.That said, the Saints weapons on offense are impressive and their ability to run or pass efficiently in many different formations will be a tough assignment for the Bears. Two keys in this game for the Bears defense is on the d-line and in the secondary. First, the d-line needs to pressure the QB without a lot of blitzing. They struggled to do this in large parts of the game versus the Hawks. The defensive ends are important but the key is Tank Johnson. He is capable of Harris like pressure. Second, the safeties need to play well. Manning and Harris/Johnson obviously need to prevent the big plays in the passing game and also capitalize on big play chances of their own. But also, when Deuce breaks through the line, they need to make that tackle for a 5 yard gain instead of allowing constant 10+ yard runs. Alexander had a few 10 yard runs when Harris overran the play and missed an open field tackle.

 

[saintfool]

FYI, Seattle had no play over 25 yards. That's the game plan and they executed. No big plays for Saints, no wins. They can't grind it on the grass.

What do you base this on? Sure, the Siants have several players on offense with big play ability, but I'm sure they'd be just as happy to exploit the Bears D in smaller bites, the same way Seattle did.

I'm thinking he missed the Giants game where the Saints controlled the entire second half via the ground game. Both Deuce and Reggie combined for 47 rushing attempts and 234 yards on the ground. Uh, we can grind it on grass. I'll admit that having Colston and Horn out down the strecth caused Brees to adjust. However, Colston is back and played pretty well last week. Joe will play this week, no doubt, and that just opens the field up.

 

[Hamstring]

I think I'm looking at grass field stats where the Saints numbers are way down as opposed to indoor turf games.

Anyone can take one game and make a case for the best offense ever. Look at the Bears/49ers game. The Bears are unstoppable if you take that game to heart.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Good point about Betts, Lewis, and R.Johnson. The Saints are likely to be run blitzing a lot early in the game and they have been stout vs the run early in games. The Bears need turnovers or to get big plays out of the passing game to keep themselves in situations where they can stick to the run for long enough to start gashing the Saints D.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bears come out very agressive in their playcalling early to take advantage of what has become a very agressive Saints D. NO had 0 backside containment all game vs Philly and the Eagles got big gains everytime they reversed field. Also, the Saints secondary may have the worst hands in the NFL, so letting Rex take some shots early isn't as risky vs other teams. And they should expect the Saints to sell out on the run early.

 

[boubucarow]

Correct me if wrong, but I see the following as grass stadiums.

Cleveland, Green Bay, Carolina, Tampa Bay, and Pittsburgh.

The Saints averaged 391 yards and 25.8 points in all games while averaging 398 yards and 26.6 points in road games at the above.

I don't see the relevance of this argument at all.

 

[ATC1]

The Saints are very capable of beating the Bears.

In fact, I think the Saints match up better with the Bears than they do with Philly. Neither of the Bears RB's are game breakers like Westbrook and Grossman is not even in Garcia's league. Berrian is a threat and the one thing that Grossman seems to do well is throw the deep ball. That could hurt the Saints, but does anybody really think the Bears are gonna make a living driving the ball 80 yards all game?

If the Saints don't turn the ball over, I think they win this one. The key is to run Deuce and don't turn the ball over. Make Grossman have to drive the Bears the length of the field consistently and don't let Devon Hester make any plays.

With the leagues best special teams unit, the Bears likely will often acquire the ball with much less than 80 yards to go for a score. In addition, are Betts, Jamal Lewis, or Rudi Johnson gamebreakers like Westbrook, because they all rushed over 100 yards vs the Saints this year. If Jones/Benson are over 100 yards and the Saints are not allowed to sit in a deep shell, Grossman has the ability to take advantage. And while Grossman is not the overall QB that Garcia is right now, he can throw it on a string 50+ yards down the field. By the way, those 50+ yard bombs could go to Berrian, Davis, or Bradley (if healthy) so the Saints will not be able to hide a struggling defensive back or concentrate on one receiver deep. Either the entire Saints secondary has to be playing well or consistent pressure must be in Grossman's face; if not, it is likely the Bears get big chunks of yardage in the passing game.That said, the Saints weapons on offense are impressive and their ability to run or pass efficiently in many different formations will be a tough assignment for the Bears. Two keys in this game for the Bears defense is on the d-line and in the secondary. First, the d-line needs to pressure the QB without a lot of blitzing. They struggled to do this in large parts of the game versus the Hawks. The defensive ends are important but the key is Tank Johnson. He is capable of Harris like pressure. Second, the safeties need to play well. Manning and Harris/Johnson obviously need to prevent the big plays in the passing game and also capitalize on big play chances of their own. But also, when Deuce breaks through the line, they need to make that tackle for a 5 yard gain instead of allowing constant 10+ yard runs. Alexander had a few 10 yard runs when Harris overran the play and missed an open field tackle.

Betts was on a hot streak up when they played the Saints. Also, we did not have or big run stopper in Hollis Thomas. With Rudi and Lewis, the Saints were out of the game and both racked up the carries. Rudi 27 carries for 111 yards. Lewis had 109 on 31 carries. We turned the ball over way too much and were out of the game. If we are out of the game in Chicago, I expect Benson and Jones to rack up the yards. In the 2nd half when the Eagles could not isolate F. Thomas on 1v1 coverageand the Saints coverage was pretty solid, Garcia had to scramble and go through several reads before throwing the ball. Something that I really don't think Grossman wil be able to do. As long as we don't let him sit there in the pocket with no pressure at all.

I agree you need to bring the pressure on Brees in order to win. But the Saints have been doing a great job of protecting him this year. I think you are going to need to blitz. I think the key is trying to get the LBs to have to cover someone, even if it is the TE. TE up the seem will be great for the run, or he will be open, much like we did against the Eagles.

 

[ATC1]

Good point about Betts, Lewis, and R.Johnson. The Saints are likely to be run blitzing a lot early in the game and they have been stout vs the run early in games. The Bears need turnovers or to get big plays out of the passing game to keep themselves in situations where they can stick to the run for long enough to start gashing the Saints D.I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bears come out very agressive in their playcalling early to take advantage of what has become a very agressive Saints D. NO had 0 backside containment all game vs Philly and the Eagles got big gains everytime they reversed field. Also, the Saints secondary may have the worst hands in the NFL, so letting Rex take some shots early isn't as risky vs other teams. And they should expect the Saints to sell out on the run early.

That's what I would do.

 

[pantagrapher]

Seattle lost. If the Saints don't get a big plays they won't win. They aren't as balanced or strong in the 3 areas. They just look lopsided to me. Not to mention everyone falls in love with teams that just score. Its more fun to root for teams to score.

The Rams just scored their way to a couple Super Bowls not long ago. I don't know what's wrong with winning that way. A win is a win.The Seahawks lost on their own mistakes. They were controlling the line of scrimmage for most of the game. The Bears barely touched Hasselbeck, and at times it looked like they didn't want to touch Alexander either. The Bears D has taken huge steps back. A lot of that is due to injuries to key players, but tough luck. I'm a Bears fan. I want them to win. But the Saints present a very tough challenge and surely saw some key things in the Seattle game that they can exploit next week. And they have the weapons to do it. The Bears will be in big trouble if they're in a situation where they have to outscore NO.That's why I'm hoping for more snow. Bad weather could even out that matchup and make the homefield all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Hamstring]

Actually the Rams won the NFC title game 11-6. They had a good d to go with a best ever type of offense and homefield. I don't see the Saints winging it all over the field or running all over the field.

The Bears did sack Hasselback 3x and held him to under 200 yds passing. The running game was good for them, but they have a great running back and they were stopped on all 3rd and short plays.

The biggest problem with the Bears right now is special teams. Seattle started near midfield waaay too much. And the Saints ST is not a slouch.

 

[boubucarow]

With the leagues best special teams unit, the Bears likely will often acquire the ball with much less than 80 yards to go for a score. In addition, are Betts, Jamal Lewis, or Rudi Johnson gamebreakers like Westbrook, because they all rushed over 100 yards vs the Saints this year. If Jones/Benson are over 100 yards and the Saints are not allowed to sit in a deep shell, Grossman has the ability to take advantage. And while Grossman is not the overall QB that Garcia is right now, he can throw it on a string 50+ yards down the field. By the way, those 50+ yard bombs could go to Berrian, Davis, or Bradley (if healthy) so the Saints will not be able to hide a struggling defensive back or concentrate on one receiver deep. Either the entire Saints secondary has to be playing well or consistent pressure must be in Grossman's face; if not, it is likely the Bears get big chunks of yardage in the passing game.That said, the Saints weapons on offense are impressive and their ability to run or pass efficiently in many different formations will be a tough assignment for the Bears. Two keys in this game for the Bears defense is on the d-line and in the secondary. First, the d-line needs to pressure the QB without a lot of blitzing. They struggled to do this in large parts of the game versus the Hawks. The defensive ends are important but the key is Tank Johnson. He is capable of Harris like pressure. Second, the safeties need to play well. Manning and Harris/Johnson obviously need to prevent the big plays in the passing game and also capitalize on big play chances of their own. But also, when Deuce breaks through the line, they need to make that tackle for a 5 yard gain instead of allowing constant 10+ yard runs. Alexander had a few 10 yard runs when Harris overran the play and missed an open field tackle.

Betts was on a hot streak up when they played the Saints. Also, we did not have or big run stopper in Hollis Thomas. With Rudi and Lewis, the Saints were out of the game and both racked up the carries. Rudi 27 carries for 111 yards. Lewis had 109 on 31 carries. We turned the ball over way too much and were out of the game. If we are out of the game in Chicago, I expect Benson and Jones to rack up the yards. In the 2nd half when the Eagles could not isolate F. Thomas on 1v1 coverageand the Saints coverage was pretty solid, Garcia had to scramble and go through several reads before throwing the ball. Something that I really don't think Grossman wil be able to do. As long as we don't let him sit there in the pocket with no pressure at all. I agree you need to bring the pressure on Brees in order to win. But the Saints have been doing a great job of protecting him this year. I think you are going to need to blitz. I think the key is trying to get the LBs to have to cover someone, even if it is the TE. TE up the seem will be great for the run, or he will be open, much like we did against the Eagles.

So, Betts was hot and you didn't have Hollis so he doesn't count. And the fact that Rudi average over 4 yards a carry over 27 carries and kept the ball for the Bengals means nothing. If the Saints couldn't stop a good runner when they knew the other team was going to run, how do you expect them to stop what has become a good running team when they also have to worry about the deep ball. There will be no restraints on Grossman and like Voice of Reason stated, the Bears will go downfield if the Saints go all out against the run. Grossman doesn't scramble and that isn't really applicable. Garcia often has to scramble because the offense run through him involves many crossing routes and rarely stretches the defense. Grossman will stretch the defense early and often and will have an easier time hitting shorter routes because the Saints have to respect the deep ball. The Bears are not the Eagles and bring different strengths and weakness to the table so the Saints performance vs the Eagles offense means very little.The Saints main problem this year has been a lack of good field position for the offense. The offense is explosive but is rarely starts in good field position because the defense forced only 19 turnovers and on top of that, they have one of the worst punt return games in the NFC. The reason the Bears scored more during the year is because they forced the most turnovers and had the best punt return game in the NFC.If the Saints and Bears each start at their 20 each drive and there is no turnovers or returns, the Saints probably win. But the game isn't played that way. Yes, if the Saints control Hester and don't turn the ball over, they will have a very good chance to win. But neither is a certainty. I expect a good close game.

 

[ATC1]

With the leagues best special teams unit, the Bears likely will often acquire the ball with much less than 80 yards to go for a score. In addition, are Betts, Jamal Lewis, or Rudi Johnson gamebreakers like Westbrook, because they all rushed over 100 yards vs the Saints this year. If Jones/Benson are over 100 yards and the Saints are not allowed to sit in a deep shell, Grossman has the ability to take advantage. And while Grossman is not the overall QB that Garcia is right now, he can throw it on a string 50+ yards down the field. By the way, those 50+ yard bombs could go to Berrian, Davis, or Bradley (if healthy) so the Saints will not be able to hide a struggling defensive back or concentrate on one receiver deep. Either the entire Saints secondary has to be playing well or consistent pressure must be in Grossman's face; if not, it is likely the Bears get big chunks of yardage in the passing game.That said, the Saints weapons on offense are impressive and their ability to run or pass efficiently in many different formations will be a tough assignment for the Bears. Two keys in this game for the Bears defense is on the d-line and in the secondary. First, the d-line needs to pressure the QB without a lot of blitzing. They struggled to do this in large parts of the game versus the Hawks. The defensive ends are important but the key is Tank Johnson. He is capable of Harris like pressure. Second, the safeties need to play well. Manning and Harris/Johnson obviously need to prevent the big plays in the passing game and also capitalize on big play chances of their own. But also, when Deuce breaks through the line, they need to make that tackle for a 5 yard gain instead of allowing constant 10+ yard runs. Alexander had a few 10 yard runs when Harris overran the play and missed an open field tackle.

Betts was on a hot streak up when they played the Saints. Also, we did not have or big run stopper in Hollis Thomas. With Rudi and Lewis, the Saints were out of the game and both racked up the carries. Rudi 27 carries for 111 yards. Lewis had 109 on 31 carries. We turned the ball over way too much and were out of the game. If we are out of the game in Chicago, I expect Benson and Jones to rack up the yards. In the 2nd half when the Eagles could not isolate F. Thomas on 1v1 coverageand the Saints coverage was pretty solid, Garcia had to scramble and go through several reads before throwing the ball. Something that I really don't think Grossman wil be able to do. As long as we don't let him sit there in the pocket with no pressure at all. I agree you need to bring the pressure on Brees in order to win. But the Saints have been doing a great job of protecting him this year. I think you are going to need to blitz. I think the key is trying to get the LBs to have to cover someone, even if it is the TE. TE up the seem will be great for the run, or he will be open, much like we did against the Eagles.

So, Betts was hot and you didn't have Hollis so he doesn't count. And the fact that Rudi average over 4 yards a carry over 27 carries and kept the ball for the Bengals means nothing. If the Saints couldn't stop a good runner when they knew the other team was going to run, how do you expect them to stop what has become a good running team when they also have to worry about the deep ball. There will be no restraints on Grossman and like Voice of Reason stated, the Bears will go downfield if the Saints go all out against the run. Grossman doesn't scramble and that isn't really applicable. Garcia often has to scramble because the offense run through him involves many crossing routes and rarely stretches the defense. Grossman will stretch the defense early and often and will have an easier time hitting shorter routes because the Saints have to respect the deep ball. The Bears are not the Eagles and bring different strengths and weakness to the table so the Saints performance vs the Eagles offense means very little.The Saints main problem this year has been a lack of good field position for the offense. The offense is explosive but is rarely starts in good field position because the defense forced only 19 turnovers and on top of that, they have one of the worst punt return games in the NFC. The reason the Bears scored more during the year is because they forced the most turnovers and had the best punt return game in the NFC.If the Saints and Bears each start at their 20 each drive and there is no turnovers or returns, the Saints probably win. But the game isn't played that way. Yes, if the Saints control Hester and don't turn the ball over, they will have a very good chance to win. But neither is a certainty. I expect a good close game.

I never said any of them didn't count, I was just trying to give you rebuttle. The Saints have been struggling more against the quicker type back, Parker and Westbrook, in giving up containment on a run that was designed to go straight. They have had more success against teams trying to go straight up the gut. I agree that the Bears should make sure they take early shots down the field if the saints are aggressive in stopping the run. Garcia scrambled to find time, and all I was stating is that Grossman will not be able to do the same. After the Eagles have had more success with the deep ball, that they would not try to have more deep routes in the second half, than short crossing routes? Field position and turnovers is important in everygame, I agree.

 

[tipsy mcstagger]

Correct me if wrong, but I see the following as grass stadiums.Cleveland, Green Bay, Carolina, Tampa Bay, and Pittsburgh.The Saints averaged 391 yards and 25.8 points in all games while averaging 398 yards and 26.6 points in road games at the above.I don't see the relevance of this argument at all.

Thank you.

 

[Isotopes]

Will the Saints have Joe Horn for this game?

 

[Hamstring]

Correct me if wrong, but I see the following as grass stadiums.Cleveland, Green Bay, Carolina, Tampa Bay, and Pittsburgh.The Saints averaged 391 yards and 25.8 points in all games while averaging 398 yards and 26.6 points in road games at the above.I don't see the relevance of this argument at all.

Thank you.

First, The Saint aren't facing anobody that crappy. Second look at the rushing in those games. Not good. My point was the rushing game on grass.

 

[bullitt]

I tell you one thing, the bears do not have an offense like Philly that allow them the BIG PLAY. Average but efficient. Kick ### Saints.

Since when is a 68 TD pass NOT considered a BIG PLAY ????Chicago Bears at 14:451-10-CHI32 (14:45) R.Grossman pass deep middle to B.Berrian for 68 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

 

[ATC1]

I tell you one thing, the bears do not have an offense like Philly that allow them the BIG PLAY. Average but efficient. Kick ### Saints.

Since when is a 68 TD pass NOT considered a BIG PLAY ????Chicago Bears at 14:451-10-CHI32 (14:45) R.Grossman pass deep middle to B.Berrian for 68 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

What he means is that Philly has more plays over 20 yards than anyother team in the league.

 

[boubucarow]

I tell you one thing, the bears do not have an offense like Philly that allow them the BIG PLAY. Average but efficient. Kick ### Saints.

Since when is a 68 TD pass NOT considered a BIG PLAY ????Chicago Bears at 14:451-10-CHI32 (14:45) R.Grossman pass deep middle to B.Berrian for 68 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

What he means is that Philly has more plays over 20 yards than anyother team in the league.

The Bears were 5th in the league with 31 passing plays over 25 yards. Of course, the Eagles and Saints were number 1 with 43 such plays. The Bears add at least six 20+ running plays which I am sure is not as much as the Eagles but the potential is there for big plays in both phases but especially in the passing game.

 

[boubucarow]

Barring a barrage of turnovers by either team early in the game, I currently see the following four areas as the keys to the game.

1. The Bears need to stay close.

--- If the Bears are down by two scores in the second half and Grossman has the ball, the outlook is bleak for the Bears. The Saints will fall back a bit more on defense and Grossman will force the ball a bit more resulting in big play chances for the Saints defense. In this scenario, the only likely comeback scenario involves Hester or a big defensive play that results in a score or a very short field. The Saints are easily the team that can more afford to be down two plus scores and still have a chance to get back into the game.

2. The Bears running game

--- If the Bears consistently get 3+ yards in the running game, the Saints defense will be in trouble. Grossman will be throwing the ball in very favorable down and distances and the play action passes to Clark down the middle and Berrian/Davis/Bradley over the top will be available for huge chunks of yardage. If the Saints can shut down the running game, Grossman will either face long distance conversions or be throwing way more than the Bears can afford to be successful.

3. Bears big plays

--- If the Saints can control Hester, prevent the long pass plays, and avoid turnovers on their side of the field, the Bears will not be capable of sustaining the offense needed to keep up with the Saints. I am fully convinced that the Saints will be able to move the ball and put points on the board. If the Bears are incapable of hitting on the big plays in any phase, they will be very hard pressed to score enough to win this game.

4. Saints starting field position

--- Saints are 25th in the league in starting field position which helped result in a lack of efficiency on offense. Any offense is hard pressed to go 75+ yards most of the time and dominate a game. The Bears were tops in the league in kickoff coverage but Burleson had a great game last week starting the Hawks off past the 35 yard line each drive. If the Saints defense/return game can give them multiple drives on the good side of their 35 yard line, they should be very successful. If the Saints are often beginning around their 20 yard line, many drives will most likely die resulting in punts and field goals.

Feel free to comment, disagree, or add on.