Texasmouth
Footballguy
The Saints made perhaps the biggest steal in draft history, add a pro bowl QB and ditched the worst coach in modern times. Will this put them in the playoffs?
Vote and discuss.......
Vote and discuss.......
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Saints will be playoff bound (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Texasmouth
- Start date
Davej626
5.56 solves all
Sorry man. Brees isn't written in to start the season and there are serious questions on defense. Not to mention how the other teams in the division are getting better as well. That division is becoming what the NFC East was a couple of years ago. I think they will be a better team, but their record may not reflect it.
2007 however....
2007 however....
Gargoylez
Footballguy
Biggest Steal?errrr no.The Saints made perhaps the biggest steal in draft history, add a pro bowl QB and ditched the worst coach in modern times. Will this put them in the playoffs?
Vote and discuss.......
They grabbed one of the best collegiate backs in history at the #2 position. Not a steal in anyones eyes imo.
Now they can deal with 40+ million tied up in the back field, while steve smith scores for the 8th time on their defense...
They might be the cellar dwellars this year in the division.
Texasmouth
Footballguy
No, the fact that he actually slipped to them is a steal. No one expected it to REALLY happen.Biggest Steal?errrr no.The Saints made perhaps the biggest steal in draft history, add a pro bowl QB and ditched the worst coach in modern times. Will this put them in the playoffs?
Vote and discuss.......
They grabbed one of the best collegiate backs in history at the #2 position. Not a steal in anyones eyes imo.
crimsonrebel
Footballguy
Well lets see, an o line with question marks at center and one tackle position, a bunch of barely warm bodies at LB, no consistent playmaker at TE, and a poor backup qb. I'm thinking 8-8 would be a great year, and i'm a huge Saints fan. They choked in this draft after drafting Bush. Get your paper bags ready.
Sidewinder
Footballguy
You sound like half the people on SR.com today who were saying the sky was falling ...
Payton will find plenty of ways to get Deuce and Bush on the field together.
For all his faults, Loomis does a very nice job of getting players signed on time. And the old man said to get it done prior to the pick, so he knew ahead of time that Bush wasn't coming cheap.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Bush will lead them to three straight Super Bowl championships then retire to golf and play baseball for two years before returning to the Saints for three more rings.
Sidewinder
Footballguy
Not real amusing for those of us who lived through the overwhelming failure to perform up to expectations. Edit to add: especially after the success of his first year.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
The Saints aren't likely a playoff team next year. The coaching staff is too inexperienced. Sean Payton has never been a head coach before (and he's had play calling duties taken away on two teams as OC), Doug Marrone has never been an OC before and Gary Gibbs has been an NFL position (LB) coach (he is better known as the guy who followed Barry Switzer at OU).
Even very talented coaches need a year or two to get their sea legs under them; and to be honest, I don't know how Sean Payton can be considered one of the better hires this offseason until he proves himself otherwise.
Even very talented coaches need a year or two to get their sea legs under them; and to be honest, I don't know how Sean Payton can be considered one of the better hires this offseason until he proves himself otherwise.
Here is a "glass is half full" point of view:
The Saints were an 8-8 team going into last year before Katrina.
Offensively, most of the questions are answered. Only right tackle is a question mark. They traded for Faine at center during the draft.
After that, there are plenty of weapons. Horn, Stallworth, Deuce. Brees (assuming healthy) is a huge upgrade in that he will make those other guys better. And now you add Bush who should make this team even more dangerous. The Saints could easily be a top 10 offense this year.
Defensively, the defensive line is still very good. They should put a lot of pressure on the QB. Gibbs is planning on playing an attacking style which fits this teams talent. Hollis Thomas was added during the draft to address the running game issues. Linebackers are average at best. The safeties should be good; McKenzie neeeds to play like he did in 04, and someone will have to step up at the other corner.
The cupboard is not bare.
The Saints were an 8-8 team going into last year before Katrina.
Offensively, most of the questions are answered. Only right tackle is a question mark. They traded for Faine at center during the draft.
After that, there are plenty of weapons. Horn, Stallworth, Deuce. Brees (assuming healthy) is a huge upgrade in that he will make those other guys better. And now you add Bush who should make this team even more dangerous. The Saints could easily be a top 10 offense this year.
Defensively, the defensive line is still very good. They should put a lot of pressure on the QB. Gibbs is planning on playing an attacking style which fits this teams talent. Hollis Thomas was added during the draft to address the running game issues. Linebackers are average at best. The safeties should be good; McKenzie neeeds to play like he did in 04, and someone will have to step up at the other corner.
The cupboard is not bare.
Sidewinder
Footballguy
Playoffs? Guess it depends a good deal on whether you think this was actually a 3-13 team last year. Seems like alot of folks forget that for the 5 years prior to '05, they were 4 games over .500, never worse than 7-9. And at that, consistently underperforming to expectations. A number of talking heads (and a few around here) were predicting an NFC South title or wild-card spot for 2005.
Payton has down some house-cleaning, and looks like there's still some more on the way. He is getting his kind of players in for the most part. Haz loved the measurables, at the expense of getting guys who can actually play. Payton is getting high-character, smart players in here. This will be the anti-Haz team, less penalties, less dumb plays, less turnovers.
As far as talking about who or who won't make the playoffs, I find it pretty much a worthless exercise on 1 May.
Payton has down some house-cleaning, and looks like there's still some more on the way. He is getting his kind of players in for the most part. Haz loved the measurables, at the expense of getting guys who can actually play. Payton is getting high-character, smart players in here. This will be the anti-Haz team, less penalties, less dumb plays, less turnovers.
As far as talking about who or who won't make the playoffs, I find it pretty much a worthless exercise on 1 May.
krash
Footballguy
Sidewinder
Footballguy
Yup. + 16 road games, practicing in parking lots, and lifting weights at the local Gold's Gym. Not exactly the recipe for competing in the NFL...
Team
Footballguy
Taking Bush was the correct pick imo. Even with 2Mac already there. Bush is more than just a running back... they can line him up anywhere. He may not be an everydown back right away, but he'll be an everydown player.I agree with you 100% on "They choked in this draft after drafting Bush." The trade and the trade downs were just awful imo. They had some fantastic talent still on the board at #34 at positions of dire need to this team, but they trade it away for a bust.
corpcow
Footballguy
I think Houston made the right choice. Neither Houston nor the Saints needed Bush, and they both had a lot of needs elsewhere. Houston had the balls to pass on Bush, which I applaud them for.The Saints couldn't or didn't want to trade down, and I guess they felt unable to pass on Bush. Personally, I think it was a mistake, even if there are some health issues with Deuce.
With a new franchise QB in place coming off a rotator cuff injury, I might have went and got some good linemen to protect him. That's what my Jets did - 1 first-round lineman for each QB we lost last year. (I don't count Vinny).
I'm also suprised they didn't address TE. Zack Hilton is not in the same league as Gates, someone who was a huge part of Brees' success in SD. I'm not suggesting they should have traded down for Davis, but using a 3rd rounder on Pope wouldn't have hurt.
Time will tell, I guess.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I have to agree with Capella...although I think the Bucs and Falcons are a lot closer than he would like to believe. Atlanta added Abraham to an already solid D-Line, stopped the bleeding at safety and also gets Ed Hartwell this year (who signed for big $$$ to man the middle but then got hurt).
In what regards?
Capella
Footballguy
The Bucs won 11 games last year with a rookie RB and a virtual rookie at QB -- and didn't lose any starters other than Dexter Jackson (
) -- and the Panthers don't appear to be taking any steps back either.I know anything can happen in the NFL, but the Saints are clearly the fourth team in the division right now. All the other teams have gotten better as well.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
In what regard? Gates is having a Hall of Fame start to a career offensively. Hilton had a nice few games, and could emerge this year, but he's a lot more Eric Johnson than he is Antonio Gates.
Agreed
I don't see how they can make the playoffs. Lot's of great additions this year, but a rookie head coach, Atlanta getting John Abraham, Carolian and Tampa still look pretty good....This Division is looking alot like the NFC East, every team has a shot.
It will come down to who can address their injuries the best.
It will come down to who can address their injuries the best.
guderian
Footballguy
Making the playoffs will be tough, but this team is not nearly as bad as most people on this board make it out to be.
1. If you look back at the impact of being displaced for the Bears (playing in Champaign) and the Titans (Memphis) it cost each about 3-4 wins (win % before and after the displacement versus the win % while displaced). That alone puts the Saints at 6 or 7 wins last year. If you consider the circumstances of their displacement then they look very much like the .500 team they've been over the previous 5 years.
2. In that light, getting the #2 pick is a gift--especially when 21 of 26 GMs ranked Bush as the #1 prospect (according to the Dallas Morning News survey). We can debate need, but Bush was certainly a windfall for a team that was closer to average than it's record indicates.
3. An inexperienced coaching staff is a valid criticism. However, last year their OC was a position coach and their DC couldn't put together a team that could crack the bottom 10 in defense. Haslett was clearly a burn-out before last year.
4. The big question mark IMO is Brees. If he's healthy they will benefit by replacing the human turnover (Brooks) and I think you'll see an already talented offense play much, much smarter.
5. Antowain Smith was their #1 RB last year. Bush-McAllister (only 5 games in 2005) is a tad bit of an upgrade.
6. The defense is a concern. However, the defensive line should be solid and the defensive backs are OK. The linebackers are a big quesion mark on this team, but I think the play of the entire defense the past few years was stymied by an overly complex and reactive system emplyed by Venturi. If they can get the defense to a #20 or so ranking--which I think is doable--then they will be able to keep their opponents within striking distance.
Bottom line is that you are looking at a team that should have a top 10 offense and a #20 or so defense. That puts them close to average in my estimation. They've also been in their Metairie practice facility since the beginning of the year and will play all of their home games in the Superdome (with the exception of 2 preseason games).
As far as the divison goes, it is a tough division and every team has a shot. However, TB, ATl and Car all had records that were inflated by feasting on a team that was using garbage cans for hot tubs and had clearly lost it's will to fight--that won't be the case this year and I think the division is more wide open than many appreciate.
1. If you look back at the impact of being displaced for the Bears (playing in Champaign) and the Titans (Memphis) it cost each about 3-4 wins (win % before and after the displacement versus the win % while displaced). That alone puts the Saints at 6 or 7 wins last year. If you consider the circumstances of their displacement then they look very much like the .500 team they've been over the previous 5 years.
2. In that light, getting the #2 pick is a gift--especially when 21 of 26 GMs ranked Bush as the #1 prospect (according to the Dallas Morning News survey). We can debate need, but Bush was certainly a windfall for a team that was closer to average than it's record indicates.
3. An inexperienced coaching staff is a valid criticism. However, last year their OC was a position coach and their DC couldn't put together a team that could crack the bottom 10 in defense. Haslett was clearly a burn-out before last year.
4. The big question mark IMO is Brees. If he's healthy they will benefit by replacing the human turnover (Brooks) and I think you'll see an already talented offense play much, much smarter.
5. Antowain Smith was their #1 RB last year. Bush-McAllister (only 5 games in 2005) is a tad bit of an upgrade.
6. The defense is a concern. However, the defensive line should be solid and the defensive backs are OK. The linebackers are a big quesion mark on this team, but I think the play of the entire defense the past few years was stymied by an overly complex and reactive system emplyed by Venturi. If they can get the defense to a #20 or so ranking--which I think is doable--then they will be able to keep their opponents within striking distance.
Bottom line is that you are looking at a team that should have a top 10 offense and a #20 or so defense. That puts them close to average in my estimation. They've also been in their Metairie practice facility since the beginning of the year and will play all of their home games in the Superdome (with the exception of 2 preseason games).
As far as the divison goes, it is a tough division and every team has a shot. However, TB, ATl and Car all had records that were inflated by feasting on a team that was using garbage cans for hot tubs and had clearly lost it's will to fight--that won't be the case this year and I think the division is more wide open than many appreciate.
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Pnishthm
Footballguy
The are STILL the Saints man.The Saints made perhaps the biggest steal in draft history, add a pro bowl QB and ditched the worst coach in modern times. Will this put them in the playoffs?
Vote and discuss.......
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More to the point, the Aints had the 6th worst run D in the NFL last season, and did nothing - repeat, not ONE move - in the offseason so far, either in FA or in the draft, to improve that run D by even one player.
No, they won't make the playoffs. They may be on sportscenter a little more (other than repeated showings of fans with paper bags on their heads) with Bush on the roster, but unless they beef him up by 40 lbs & teach him to tackle, they're on the outside looking in after the regular season.
No, they won't make the playoffs. They may be on sportscenter a little more (other than repeated showings of fans with paper bags on their heads) with Bush on the roster, but unless they beef him up by 40 lbs & teach him to tackle, they're on the outside looking in after the regular season.
If they were in say the NFC north I would say they have a better chance.
Carolina - eye toward the Super Bowl
TB - A tough team that could see some slippage from last year depending on how Simms performs
Atl - Obviously has put an emphasis on upgrading the defense. As always it will depend on how Vick throws and Warrick runs.
I can see the Saints going 7-9 but not in the playoffs
Carolina - eye toward the Super Bowl
TB - A tough team that could see some slippage from last year depending on how Simms performs
Atl - Obviously has put an emphasis on upgrading the defense. As always it will depend on how Vick throws and Warrick runs.
I can see the Saints going 7-9 but not in the playoffs
Saints-Man
Footballguy
I am glad other people are seeing this. Yes, the Saints were extremely fortunate that Bush dropped to them and to their credit, made the right pick. However, with Benson's track record this could be a case of wanting to put fans in the seats. He did the right thing but possibly for the wrong reasons.However, I am very upset with their second round performance. If they would have stayed at 3.2, they could have selected T Winston Justice(USC), who was considered by most the 2nd best T in the draft and whose natural position is LT. RT Jamal Brown has played RT most of his life, and that transition will not be easy. Tackles are much more important than Cs or Gs. For the moment, let's say the Saints are right and the Browns were wrong about Faine. Okay, but at 2.7 T Eric Winson(Miami) was still on the board. I can't believe they passed up these prospects for a safety. Yes, the position needs to be upgraded but the OT needs were more important.
I think they will be a better team, but not playoff material.
Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
I honestly would be suprised to see them not place last in thier division.
I see it
Carolina
Tampa
Atl
Saints
not hating
I see it
Carolina
Tampa
Atl
Saints
not hating
Saints-Man
Footballguy
I am Saints-Man!The are STILL the Saints man.The Saints made perhaps the biggest steal in draft history, add a pro bowl QB and ditched the worst coach in modern times. Will this put them in the playoffs?
Vote and discuss.......
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Saints-Man
Footballguy
Considering they finished in 4th place last year by 5 games, not even us diehard Saints fans can consider anyone who predicts them to finish last again as a hater.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Quoting myself from another thread
"6-10.
The defense may have gotten worse, so we'll have to rely heavily on our offense to win games.
The team is building the offense with a QB that possibly has a bum shoulder, and they didn't go out an get a backup. The team lost two starting offensive lineman, one a Pro-Bowler (Bentley) and the other was terrible (Gandy), and brought in a castoff from the team that signed Bentley as the only replacement.
Then the team decides that they are comfortable protecting Brees and his shoudler's blind side with a 2nd year player who has never played LT.
Finally, the guy running this ship is a coach who has had playcalling taken away from him twice. I am unsure what happened the 2nd time, but when Jim Fassel took it from him with the Giants the offense drastically improved.
The worst part is that Benson is actually paying giving up money for players, but I think his cheap staff will misuse them and convience Tommy not to make that "mistake" again."
"6-10.
The defense may have gotten worse, so we'll have to rely heavily on our offense to win games.
The team is building the offense with a QB that possibly has a bum shoulder, and they didn't go out an get a backup. The team lost two starting offensive lineman, one a Pro-Bowler (Bentley) and the other was terrible (Gandy), and brought in a castoff from the team that signed Bentley as the only replacement.
Then the team decides that they are comfortable protecting Brees and his shoudler's blind side with a 2nd year player who has never played LT.
Finally, the guy running this ship is a coach who has had playcalling taken away from him twice. I am unsure what happened the 2nd time, but when Jim Fassel took it from him with the Giants the offense drastically improved.
The worst part is that Benson is actually paying giving up money for players, but I think his cheap staff will misuse them and convience Tommy not to make that "mistake" again."
Doug B
Footballguy
The Saints made several defensive acquisitions in FA (LBs Fujita and A Simmons are early favorites to start). Also, replacing S Dwight Smith will help.
They signed former Ram Jamie Martin last Thursday. Brees's shoulder isn't so bad off that his recovery is in doubt, anyway. If the worst were to happen ... I'll take Martin over Aaron Brooks every day of the week.
We'll see with Faine. I've seen too many cases of new scenery helping players to write him off so early.
We'll see ... too early to make a pronouncement on this.
Admittedly, this concerned me a lot when Payton was hired.
Lack of faith? 
...I just don't see the Saints 2006 fate to be quite as open-and-shut as most of you guys do.
psychobillies
Footballguy
Not one move in FA or the draft? What about LB's Fujita and Simmons or Run Stopping DT Hollis Thomas. They also picked a strong tackler in rd 2 of the draft.They are still working to trade Dw. Smith and possibly D Stallworth. From a mole
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