San Francisco WR (1 Viewer)

[Justloveit]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.

Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?

How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

 

[saintfool]

i think much of the SF WR situation is being overshadowed by the QB situation. No one knows for certain who will be the starter come Week 1. this looks like a bad offense, regardless of who is starting. I think Vernon Davis will be the lucky recipient of a large number of dump off passes.

 

[T Bell]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Sad to say, but SF can only wish for a QB as good as Kitna. Also, SF doesn't have WR's the quality of Roy or CJ to divert attention from those other guys to allow them to get favorable matchups.

 

[Beefeaters]

Would be interested to hear about how Hill and Morgan are doing so far this pre-season. Have either of them beat out the other for more playing time as the #4 WR?

 

[cjack]

Would be interested to hear about how Hill and Morgan are doing so far this pre-season. Have either of them beat out the other for more playing time as the #4 WR?

There's another thread on Morgan. Find that and read through it as it seems many people feel Morgan will end up starting in place of Johnson or Bruce at some point. Sounds like he's having a pretty good pre-season.

 

[gman8343]

Sad to say, but SF can only wish for a QB as good as Kitna.

Martz did pretty well with absolute nobody QBs in Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger -- neither of whom were expected to amount to anything in the NFL. I wouldn't be so quick to write SF off as a fantasy wasteland yet.

 

[T Bell]

Sad to say, but SF can only wish for a QB as good as Kitna.

Martz did pretty well with absolute nobody QBs in Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger -- neither of whom were expected to amount to anything in the NFL. I wouldn't be so quick to write SF off as a fantasy wasteland yet.

Kurt Warner was getting compared (favorably, in some circles) to Joe Montana when he was at the height of his game, and like Bulger has shown even years later that he's still a good NFL QB. I'm sure Martz helped, but does he really get all the credit for those guys, or were they decently talented before they got to him? My own personal opinion is that this SF stable of QB's is the worst that Martz has ever had and that this is going to be a real test this year for him to successfully run his system.

 

[gman8343]

Sad to say, but SF can only wish for a QB as good as Kitna.

Martz did pretty well with absolute nobody QBs in Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger -- neither of whom were expected to amount to anything in the NFL. I wouldn't be so quick to write SF off as a fantasy wasteland yet.

Kurt Warner was getting compared (favorably, in some circles) to Joe Montana when he was at the height of his game, and like Bulger has shown even years later that he's still a good NFL QB. I'm sure Martz helped, but does he really get all the credit for those guys, or were they decently talented before they got to him? My own personal opinion is that this SF stable of QB's is the worst that Martz has ever had and that this is going to be a real test this year for him to successfully run his system.

Kurt Warner was stocking shelves before Martz got to him - he was a NOBODY . Guy was an undrafted free agent, played in the Arena league and NFL Europe. Bulger was a 6th round draft pick. I don't know if Martz deserves all the credit or not but he has taken people who were simply not supposed to be starting QBs and turned them into pro bowlers.

 

[-baller]

I don't think people were exactly raving about kitna when they picked him up.

 

[Warhogs]

I do believe that there will be a couple of guys putting up quality numbers in San fransisco this year at WR. The problem is figuring out who. It looks like Bruce and Johnson are the expected starters so that is where to look first. After that, if you are looking for the late round gems I would personally look to Arnaz Battle and Josh Morgan. Morgan is probably more of interest in a dynasty format. I have not heard much about Lelie but what I think I heard indicated he is battling to just make the team? Bruce is probably the best value because he and Martz have teamed up in the past and he always gets undervalued due to his age. He could certainly break down this year but he is not a very expensive investment.

 

[T Bell]

I don't think people were exactly raving about kitna when they picked him up.

Say what you will about him, but Kitna had played well before Martz, most notably in 1999 with Seattle and in 2003 with Cincy.

 

[brednbuddah]

don't be surprised if O'Sullivan winds up the opening day starter. From what I've been reading he's got a better understanding of the offense and has developed a nice rapport with Morgan.

SF actually has a bunch of, dare I say weapons, (Bruce, Johnson, Battle, Morgan, Davis, Gore) who can catch the ball. If they can get a guy under center who can actually get them the ball. hey, ya never know.

 

[TheFanatic]

I think another problem with a lack of discussion is that there is so much uncertainty with who the starters will be. I keep hearing BRuce will be a starter. Can he be a legit WR2 at his age? If not who takes his spot? This is the real problem. There are a bunch of guys to talk about there including some promising rooks. Furry came out of nowhere. I expect someone else will do the same in SF. I took a flier on Battle in a deep dynasty league. Who knows if he will pan out.

 

[hickbones]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

The dismal QB situation is why no one is talking about their receivers.

 

[Football Jones]

Do I dare predict the 49ers will take the first QB off the board in the 2009 NFL Draft?

I think so.

 

[Beefeaters]

If you had to choose, who would you rather have on a Dynasty Taxi Squad right now? Hill or Morgan?

 

[Avery]

If you believe that Martz could work any magic for the fantasy stats of WRs, then the risk (cost) vs. reward for the SF WRs seems pretty favorable.

I've grabbed Bruce already late in one draft and will try to sneak Josh Morgan off the pre-season waiver wire.

Not going to cost me much and could pay off big time.

 

[Justloveit]

I'm bumping this thread following today's preseason game.

Word is that JTO looked excellent today and has pretty much locked up the starter spot. Some in the game thread have been raising the possibility of JTO even being a top 10 fantasy QB this yr. The question still remains, who is going to be catching the balls? I'm convinced there is a nugget of gold amongst this WR corp that has yet to reveal itself, the sooner we can identify who this might be the better.

 

[Sabertooth]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.

Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?

How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Sad to say, but SF can only wish for a QB as good as Kitna. Also, SF doesn't have WR's the quality of Roy or CJ to divert attention from those other guys to allow them to get favorable matchups.

Seriously though, when you trot out Shaun McDonald, Furrey, Roy Williams, and Calvin Johnson, you have to think that only Calvin or Roy is going to get extra attention. So that leaves McDonald and Furrey with the third or fourth best cover guys on them. Now, you trot out Bryant Johnson, Isaac Bruce, Arnaz Battle, and Josh Morgan. How is it any different for Morgan or Battle? I mean sure, there is one safety that can maybe sit back or something or blitz or whatever because there are really no players that need to be double up on, but for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys the coverages are probably darn near the same. Team didn't double cover Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams last season and leave McDonald to just frolic through the daisies.

Looking at week 4 of the season, Calvin was out, but McDonald still tallied 12 fantasy points in a PPR format. At the end of the season with Calvin hurting and Roy out, McDonald averaged around 9 PPG. He didn't have a Frank Gore or Vernon Davis to take the heat off either.

I think the OP is correct. The 49ers will throw the ball probably a lot. The wide receivers throughout Martz's career have scored an average of a third higher than the league average. During his OC stints, that number is virtually the same. He's been pretty darn consistent in his ability to get the FF points from the wideouts no matter if it was Chris Miller, Chris Chandler, Mark Rypien, Tony Banks, Trent Green, Kurt Warner, or Mark Bulger, Jon Kitna They've all done well. Not exactly a who's who of talent there we are talking about.

The lowest the top receiver in a Martz offense (HC or O coordinator) has ever scored is WR23...evah! . Know who that was? The uber-talented Shaun McDonald last season in Detroit with future hall of nothing QB Jon Kitna. I think that Isaac Bruce or even Josh Morgan could accomplish that. McDonald never sniffed Bruce's job in St. Louis, he simply was never near as good.

The QBs don't matter much, the WRs don't matter much. The system matters. Somebody is going to reap the benefits of this. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that some San Fran wideout scores in the top 30 NFL recievers. That is starter material (albeit WR3 material) in most leagues. The top two wideouts in SF right now are rated outside 49 and 55. That people, is value. Drafting the 30th best player for cost of the 49th best player wins you games.

 

[Routilla]

Some in the game thread have been raising the possibility of JTO even being a top 10 fantasy QB this yr.

Top 10? c'mon.

 

[gbill2004]

Whats the word on Bryant Johnson? Is he still the starter and #1 WR when the season starts?

 

[Marc Levin]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Because the QB situation is horrible?Because the team's best chance of success is in Frank Gore's hands?Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?Other than that, there's every reason to talk about the SF WRs. Seriously, I like Bruce as a WR4/5, but avoid the rest of the WRs except in big leagues - I'd rather invest in Patten, Gaffney, and a few others than the SF WRs in a PPR

 

[KellysHeroes]

Whats the word on Bryant Johnson? Is he still the starter and #1 WR when the season starts?

I've taken him in a couple of leagues... in the deeper leagues I've handcuffed him w/ Hill, looks like that idea my pay off.

 

[Sabertooth]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.

Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?

How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Because the QB situation is horrible?Because the team's best chance of success is in Frank Gore's hands?

Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?

Other than that, there's every reason to talk about the SF WRs.

Seriously, I like Bruce as a WR4/5, but avoid the rest of the WRs except in big leagues - I'd rather invest in Patten, Gaffney, and a few others than the SF WRs in a PPR

 

[Sabertooth]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Because the QB situation is horrible?Because the team's best chance of success is in Frank Gore's hands?Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?Other than that, there's every reason to talk about the SF WRs. Seriously, I like Bruce as a WR4/5, but avoid the rest of the WRs except in big leagues - I'd rather invest in Patten, Gaffney, and a few others than the SF WRs in a PPR

Then why did you post this in the Value WRs thread?

Look for the WR2 on teams with bad defenses - Arnaz Battle/Bryant Johnson from SF come to mind.

 

[Marc Levin]

Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?

Do you disagree?Best TE numbers in St. Lou under Martz from 2002-2005 =

Ernie Conwell 2002 48 targets 34 rec 419 yds 2 TDs 58.90 FPs

Best TE numbers in Detroit while Martz was asst HC:

Marcus Pollard 2005 78 targets 46 rec. 516 yds. 3 TDs 69.60 FPs

This is while TEs were emerging across the league - shall I compare that to his 3rd WR numbers for you??

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Because the QB situation is horrible?Because the team's best chance of success is in Frank Gore's hands?Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?Other than that, there's every reason to talk about the SF WRs. Seriously, I like Bruce as a WR4/5, but avoid the rest of the WRs except in big leagues - I'd rather invest in Patten, Gaffney, and a few others than the SF WRs in a PPR

Then why did you post this in the Value WRs thread?

Look for the WR2 on teams with bad defenses - Arnaz Battle/Bryant Johnson from SF come to mind.

 

[Marc Levin]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Because the QB situation is horrible?Because the team's best chance of success is in Frank Gore's hands?Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?Other than that, there's every reason to talk about the SF WRs. Seriously, I like Bruce as a WR4/5, but avoid the rest of the WRs except in big leagues - I'd rather invest in Patten, Gaffney, and a few others than the SF WRs in a PPR

Then why did you post this in the Value WRs thread?

Look for the WR2 on teams with bad defenses - Arnaz Battle/Bryant Johnson from SF come to mind.

Good question.I like Bryant/Battle as value late in drafts. I do not like them based on target numbers - for PPR purposes, I prefer the guys I mentioned above, and I expect their target numbers to be much higher.

 

[moleculo]

Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?

Do you disagree?Best TE numbers in St. Lou under Martz from 2002-2005 =

Ernie Conwell 2002 48 targets 34 rec 419 yds 2 TDs 58.90 FPs

Best TE numbers in Detroit while Martz was asst HC:

Marcus Pollard 2005 78 targets 46 rec. 516 yds. 3 TDs 69.60 FPs

This is while TEs were emerging across the league - shall I compare that to his 3rd WR numbers for you??

have you not read anything about Martz raving about VDavis's abilities, and how he is game planning around getting him downfield?Martz has never had a talent like Davis to work with - look at the names you posted yourself. Do you believe that Martz's system is so inflexible that TE's will never be utilized?

 

[moleculo]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.

Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?

How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Sad to say, but SF can only wish for a QB as good as Kitna. Also, SF doesn't have WR's the quality of Roy or CJ to divert attention from those other guys to allow them to get favorable matchups.

Seriously though, when you trot out Shaun McDonald, Furrey, Roy Williams, and Calvin Johnson, you have to think that only Calvin or Roy is going to get extra attention. So that leaves McDonald and Furrey with the third or fourth best cover guys on them. Now, you trot out Bryant Johnson, Isaac Bruce, Arnaz Battle, and Josh Morgan. How is it any different for Morgan or Battle? I mean sure, there is one safety that can maybe sit back or something or blitz or whatever because there are really no players that need to be double up on, but for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys the coverages are probably darn near the same. Team didn't double cover Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams last season and leave McDonald to just frolic through the daisies.

Looking at week 4 of the season, Calvin was out, but McDonald still tallied 12 fantasy points in a PPR format. At the end of the season with Calvin hurting and Roy out, McDonald averaged around 9 PPG. He didn't have a Frank Gore or Vernon Davis to take the heat off either.

I think the OP is correct. The 49ers will throw the ball probably a lot. The wide receivers throughout Martz's career have scored an average of a third higher than the league average. During his OC stints, that number is virtually the same. He's been pretty darn consistent in his ability to get the FF points from the wideouts no matter if it was Chris Miller, Chris Chandler, Mark Rypien, Tony Banks, Trent Green, Kurt Warner, or Mark Bulger, Jon Kitna They've all done well. Not exactly a who's who of talent there we are talking about.

The lowest the top receiver in a Martz offense (HC or O coordinator) has ever scored is WR23...evah! . Know who that was? The uber-talented Shaun McDonald last season in Detroit with future hall of nothing QB Jon Kitna. I think that Isaac Bruce or even Josh Morgan could accomplish that. McDonald never sniffed Bruce's job in St. Louis, he simply was never near as good.

The QBs don't matter much, the WRs don't matter much. The system matters. Somebody is going to reap the benefits of this. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that some San Fran wideout scores in the top 30 NFL recievers. That is starter material (albeit WR3 material) in most leagues. The top two wideouts in SF right now are rated outside 49 and 55. That people, is value. Drafting the 30th best player for cost of the 49th best player wins you games.

, but who is the WR to get?

 

[Sabertooth]

Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?

Do you disagree?Best TE numbers in St. Lou under Martz from 2002-2005 =

Ernie Conwell 2002 48 targets 34 rec 419 yds 2 TDs 58.90 FPs

Best TE numbers in Detroit while Martz was asst HC:

Marcus Pollard 2005 78 targets 46 rec. 516 yds. 3 TDs 69.60 FPs

This is while TEs were emerging across the league - shall I compare that to his 3rd WR numbers for you??

No, I do agree with that, but I don't see how that hurts the player looking to mine value out of the WR corps. Wouldn't that seem to work in the favor of the underrated WRs?

 

[Sabertooth]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.

Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?

How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Sad to say, but SF can only wish for a QB as good as Kitna. Also, SF doesn't have WR's the quality of Roy or CJ to divert attention from those other guys to allow them to get favorable matchups.

Seriously though, when you trot out Shaun McDonald, Furrey, Roy Williams, and Calvin Johnson, you have to think that only Calvin or Roy is going to get extra attention. So that leaves McDonald and Furrey with the third or fourth best cover guys on them. Now, you trot out Bryant Johnson, Isaac Bruce, Arnaz Battle, and Josh Morgan. How is it any different for Morgan or Battle? I mean sure, there is one safety that can maybe sit back or something or blitz or whatever because there are really no players that need to be double up on, but for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys the coverages are probably darn near the same. Team didn't double cover Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams last season and leave McDonald to just frolic through the daisies.

Looking at week 4 of the season, Calvin was out, but McDonald still tallied 12 fantasy points in a PPR format. At the end of the season with Calvin hurting and Roy out, McDonald averaged around 9 PPG. He didn't have a Frank Gore or Vernon Davis to take the heat off either.

I think the OP is correct. The 49ers will throw the ball probably a lot. The wide receivers throughout Martz's career have scored an average of a third higher than the league average. During his OC stints, that number is virtually the same. He's been pretty darn consistent in his ability to get the FF points from the wideouts no matter if it was Chris Miller, Chris Chandler, Mark Rypien, Tony Banks, Trent Green, Kurt Warner, or Mark Bulger, Jon Kitna They've all done well. Not exactly a who's who of talent there we are talking about.

The lowest the top receiver in a Martz offense (HC or O coordinator) has ever scored is WR23...evah! . Know who that was? The uber-talented Shaun McDonald last season in Detroit with future hall of nothing QB Jon Kitna. I think that Isaac Bruce or even Josh Morgan could accomplish that. McDonald never sniffed Bruce's job in St. Louis, he simply was never near as good.

The QBs don't matter much, the WRs don't matter much. The system matters. Somebody is going to reap the benefits of this. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that some San Fran wideout scores in the top 30 NFL recievers. That is starter material (albeit WR3 material) in most leagues. The top two wideouts in SF right now are rated outside 49 and 55. That people, is value. Drafting the 30th best player for cost of the 49th best player wins you games.

, but who is the WR to get?

That is the question. In larger leagues, burning a roster spot for a WR5 and WR6 might work but seems a high price to pay for two shots at a long shot. I guess if I have to guess, I'd say Bruce because he knows that system inside and out. This is what allowed McDonald and Furrey to contribute in Detroit, they just knew the system better than everyone else. I think with old Ike Bruce, you can potentially get into the top 30 if he stays healthy. I could see him scraping together quite a few 6-60 type of games with maybe 5 or 6 touchdowns for the season. That would probably land him in the right range for value.

 

[Jon_Moore]

Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE? :X

Do you disagree?Best TE numbers in St. Lou under Martz from 2002-2005 =

Ernie Conwell 2002 48 targets 34 rec 419 yds 2 TDs 58.90 FPs

Best TE numbers in Detroit while Martz was asst HC:

Marcus Pollard 2005 78 targets 46 rec. 516 yds. 3 TDs 69.60 FPs

This is while

TEs were emerging across the league - shall I compare that to his 3rd WR numbers for you??

I'm sorry, I simply feel this point has been overplayed. There have been at least a couple other threads where people try to use this point. But, PLEASE look at the names you list. Ernie Conwell? Marcus Pollard. If you Have Isaac Bruce on one side, Torry Holt on the other, and Marshall Faulk running out of the backfield...tell me WHY would you ever look at a guy like Ernie Conwell?2008: You have Isaac Bruce on one side...albeit nearly 40, Bryant Johnson sounds like he's played his way out of town, Morgan has looked good, but is he really the reason you want to say someone won't succeed? And, Gore coming out of the backfield. There is some competition for touches, but I don't think there's even an argument he's the 2nd best play maker they have on offense. They have to target him.

He has talent. Tight Ends in Martz's past have not. He has sub par receiving options to compete with outside of Gore. Conwell had to compete for targets and catches with 3 possible future hall of famers. (Not looking to Debate that)

 

[Marc Levin]

I like Vernon Davis - as I mentioned above, he's SF's best receiver.

And that makes my point. No, it is not worth talking about Martz' receivers because his best weapons are Frank Gore and Vernon Davis.

 

[PahtyTom]

I like Vernon Davis - as I mentioned above, he's SF's best receiver.And that makes my point. No, it is not worth talking about Martz' receivers because his best weapons are Frank Gore and Vernon Davis.

In Davis, we're talking about a guy who hasn't been able to pick up NFL playbooks easily. His route running and technique have also gotten poor grades thus far. Now he is in a Martz offense where all those things are paramount.

 

[davearm]

Seriously though, when you trot out Shaun McDonald, Furrey, Roy Williams, and Calvin Johnson, you have to think that only Calvin or Roy is going to get extra attention. So that leaves McDonald and Furrey with the third or fourth best cover guys on them. Now, you trot out Bryant Johnson, Isaac Bruce, Arnaz Battle, and Josh Morgan.

How is it any different for Morgan or Battle? I mean sure, there is one safety that can maybe sit back or something or blitz or whatever because there are really no players that need to be double up on, but for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys the coverages are probably darn near the same. Team didn't double cover Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams last season and leave McDonald to just frolic through the daisies.

Looking at week 4 of the season, Calvin was out, but McDonald still tallied 12 fantasy points in a PPR format. At the end of the season with Calvin hurting and Roy out, McDonald averaged around 9 PPG. He didn't have a Frank Gore or Vernon Davis to take the heat off either.

I think the OP is correct. The 49ers will throw the ball probably a lot. The wide receivers throughout Martz's career have scored an average of a third higher than the league average. During his OC stints, that number is virtually the same. He's been pretty darn consistent in his ability to get the FF points from the wideouts no matter if it was Chris Miller, Chris Chandler, Mark Rypien, Tony Banks, Trent Green, Kurt Warner, or Mark Bulger, Jon Kitna They've all done well. Not exactly a who's who of talent there we are talking about.

The lowest the top receiver in a Martz offense (HC or O coordinator) has ever scored is WR23...evah! . Know who that was? The uber-talented Shaun McDonald last season in Detroit with future hall of nothing QB Jon Kitna. I think that Isaac Bruce or even Josh Morgan could accomplish that. McDonald never sniffed Bruce's job in St. Louis, he simply was never near as good.

The QBs don't matter much, the WRs don't matter much. The system matters. Somebody is going to reap the benefits of this. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that some San Fran wideout scores in the top 30 NFL recievers. That is starter material (albeit WR3 material) in most leagues. The top two wideouts in SF right now are rated outside 49 and 55. That people, is value. Drafting the 30th best player for cost of the 49th best player wins you games.

The problem is, you actually have to be able to identify which guy is going to be 30th or better. You said it yourself. Last year the Lions' top wideout wasn't Calvin Johnson. It wasn't Roy Williams either. It was a guy significantly less talented, and less prominently regarded -- Shaun McDonald. I'd venture to say that nobody saw that coming.

What that means for the collection of Bruce/Johnson/Morgan/Battle, and which of those guys figures to emerge as the most productive SF WR, is the question we need answered. Simply knowing one of those four guys is going to exceed his ADP is of limited use.

 

[davearm]

I like Vernon Davis - as I mentioned above, he's SF's best receiver.And that makes my point. No, it is not worth talking about Martz' receivers because his best weapons are Frank Gore and Vernon Davis.

In Davis, we're talking about a guy who hasn't been able to pick up NFL playbooks easily. His route running and technique have also gotten poor grades thus far. Now he is in a Martz offense where all those things are paramount.

For all his physical talent, the knock on Davis has always been his inability to grasp the mental aspects of the NFL game -- formations, assignments, pre-snap reads and adjustments, etc. Seems like you hear lots of stories about him Working in Martz' offense is hardly the cure for the guy that struggles to line up in the right place and run the correct route.

 

[Jon_Moore]

I like Vernon Davis - as I mentioned above, he's SF's best receiver.And that makes my point. No, it is not worth talking about Martz' receivers because his best weapons are Frank Gore and Vernon Davis.

In Davis, we're talking about a guy who hasn't been able to pick up NFL playbooks easily. His route running and technique have also gotten poor grades thus far. Now he is in a Martz offense where all those things are paramount.

Is this not a common problem for enexperience tight ends/receivers?

 

[massraider]

Going by history, I think your average fantasy owner is well within their rights to pick up a Mike Martz QB/WR with the same enthusiasm that they chase after any back that the Broncos pick up.

I'd be shocked if he didn't put up some serious offensive numbers there at some point this year.

 

[Sabertooth]

Seriously though, when you trot out Shaun McDonald, Furrey, Roy Williams, and Calvin Johnson, you have to think that only Calvin or Roy is going to get extra attention. So that leaves McDonald and Furrey with the third or fourth best cover guys on them. Now, you trot out Bryant Johnson, Isaac Bruce, Arnaz Battle, and Josh Morgan.

How is it any different for Morgan or Battle? I mean sure, there is one safety that can maybe sit back or something or blitz or whatever because there are really no players that need to be double up on, but for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys the coverages are probably darn near the same. Team didn't double cover Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams last season and leave McDonald to just frolic through the daisies.

Looking at week 4 of the season, Calvin was out, but McDonald still tallied 12 fantasy points in a PPR format. At the end of the season with Calvin hurting and Roy out, McDonald averaged around 9 PPG. He didn't have a Frank Gore or Vernon Davis to take the heat off either.

I think the OP is correct. The 49ers will throw the ball probably a lot. The wide receivers throughout Martz's career have scored an average of a third higher than the league average. During his OC stints, that number is virtually the same. He's been pretty darn consistent in his ability to get the FF points from the wideouts no matter if it was Chris Miller, Chris Chandler, Mark Rypien, Tony Banks, Trent Green, Kurt Warner, or Mark Bulger, Jon Kitna They've all done well. Not exactly a who's who of talent there we are talking about.

The lowest the top receiver in a Martz offense (HC or O coordinator) has ever scored is WR23...evah! . Know who that was? The uber-talented Shaun McDonald last season in Detroit with future hall of nothing QB Jon Kitna. I think that Isaac Bruce or even Josh Morgan could accomplish that. McDonald never sniffed Bruce's job in St. Louis, he simply was never near as good.

The QBs don't matter much, the WRs don't matter much. The system matters. Somebody is going to reap the benefits of this. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that some San Fran wideout scores in the top 30 NFL recievers. That is starter material (albeit WR3 material) in most leagues. The top two wideouts in SF right now are rated outside 49 and 55. That people, is value. Drafting the 30th best player for cost of the 49th best player wins you games.

The problem is, you actually have to be able to identify which guy is going to be 30th or better. You said it yourself. Last year the Lions' top wideout wasn't Calvin Johnson. It wasn't Roy Williams either. It was a guy significantly less talented, and less prominently regarded -- Shaun McDonald. I'd venture to say that nobody saw that coming.

What that means for the collection of Bruce/Johnson/Morgan/Battle, and which of those guys figures to emerge as the most productive SF WR, is the question we need answered. Simply knowing one of those four guys is going to exceed his ADP is of limited use.

I pulled McDonald off the waiver wire in week 2 and started him for about 4 or 5 weeks straight as my WR3. While I didn't draft him, I did recognize the situation early enough that it helped me. And I am not talking about anything more than a late round or league minimum auction bid for these guys. I think they are a good gamble for a 12th round pick based on opportunity alone. If it doesn't pan out, you drop them for somebody who may emerge like a a Kevin Walter or Shaun McDonald from last year.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Is this not a common problem for enexperience tight ends/receivers?

Yes, and it's also common for Martz to do an excellent job getting players to execute his plays. Martz may be a pass-happy fool, but he's a genius when it comes to recognizing and designing plays to take advantage of favorable match ups in the passing game. Vernon Davs v LB or Vernon Davis v most Safeties qualifies. Of course Davis might just be a screw-up who will never "get it", but based on where you can draft him and the high end of his potential he seems like a good play.

 

[KellysHeroes]

If VD can get it together... he could put 900 yds w/ 8 TDs. Hes got the Physical Tools of Calvin in a TE's body. Hpwever, VD's problem is the mental part of the game.

 

[identikit]

If VD can get it together... he could put 900 yds w/ 8 TDs. Hes got the Physical Tools of Calvin in a TE's body. Hpwever, VD's problem is the mental part of the game.

I'm as big a fan of Davis as anyone, but his hands don't compare well at all to Calvin's.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

First off - JT O's is going to be the QB until he gets sacked to death, or they start the season 1-5 or some such, then A.Smith will get his shot, but If Martz has 100% control JT will be the QB all season

The WR. THe pecking order will be like this:

Bruce

Gore

VD

--------------

IMO after the top three it gets dicey and IMO unless your in a deep keeper league these guys are waiver wire fodder:

J.Hill

Morgan

B.Johnson

 

[Bizkiteer]

I like Vernon Davis - as I mentioned above, he's SF's best receiver.

And that makes my point. No, it is not worth talking about Martz' receivers because his best weapons are Frank Gore and Vernon Davis.

All speculation right there, although you're not alone in it. Everyone is so quick to toot the horn of V. Davis, but he has yet to really show that he's a great or even good player. Granted the talent level in SF is low, so even a piece of coal can look like a gem. Yes, Davis is fast, but that does not a great weapon make alone. If that was the case, Troy Williamson would be a beast. Davis looks like he shoud be good by physical talents, but that has yet to translate on the field in the NFL.

 

[Deuce'sWild]

At this point, do you drop Bryant Johnson? I hate to let him go before the season starts, but David Patten is staring at me on the Waiver wire (owner dropped him for Chris Henry).

I just don't see him doing much with VD, Gore and Bruce getting the looks.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

Or maybe there is, but i just can't find the topic.Considering what the likes of Furrey and McDonald were able to do in Detroit under Martz, why hasn't there been more discussion regarding the prospects of the SF receiving corp?How do people see the receptions being split up? Who are the candidates that could emerge as PPR gold as Furrey and McDonald did?

Because the QB situation is horrible?Because the team's best chance of success is in Frank Gore's hands?Because Vernon Davis is the best receiver on the team and Martz doiesn't have a good history of targeting the TE?Other than that, there's every reason to talk about the SF WRs. Seriously, I like Bruce as a WR4/5, but avoid the rest of the WRs except in big leagues - I'd rather invest in Patten, Gaffney, and a few others than the SF WRs in a PPR

Really? Given their schedule and below avearge defense they should be throwing early and often.

 

[KellysHeroes]

(KFFL) Daniel Brown, of The Mercury News, reports San Francisco 49ers WR Jason Hill is on the bubble of making the final roster.

That would suck.. I had my money on him being the slot Receiver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-hRyrrD0jA

1:30 in.. Nice catch.

 

[-baller]

isn't battle frontrunner for the slot?

 

[Hemi-Colon]

If VD can get it together... he could put 900 yds w/ 8 TDs. Hes got the Physical Tools of Calvin in a TE's body. Hpwever, VD's problem is the mental part of the game.

Last year, I was one of the people who screamed "Buyer Beware on VD. I had seen him over and over drop balls, miss assignments, and do stupid things like call out future hall of famers(Larry Allen). Having watched him very closely in OTA's and camp this year, I feel it is only necessary for me to revisit V.Davis again. I can honestly say that he has impressed me more than any other Niner camp attendee. I have not seen him drop more than 4-5 catchable balls in team or individual drills. I have witnessed him stay on the field after every final horn has blown to take 10yd bullets from the Juggs machine. Whereas he would be involved in at least 1-2 stupid scrums every day, he has only to my recollection been in 1 all of camp, as a third man in if I recall correctly. This turn around in work ethic, and attitude has more than impressed me, as I thought it could never possibly happen. I am not going to say that this is the "break-out" year for him, but I feel almost as if I owe it to him to acknowledge his obvious hard work. I'll close with this. Non-Buyers beware of Vernon Davis, because his mentality may have finally caught up to his athleticism.