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Santonio Holmes going forward (1 Viewer)
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TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
I think Holmes is a WR3 going forward. The emergence of Greene as a pass catcher, and burress as a red zone threat is taking some targets away from holmes. The Jets oline isn't giving sanchez a whole lot of time. And on top of that Sanchez doesn't look like he's improved at all this year. talent alone keeps holmes as a WR3.
Think a lot of people viewed him as a high end WR2, but I doubt he gets there. The sad thing is that it's not his performance that's holding him back, but the coaching staff and other players.
Think a lot of people viewed him as a high end WR2, but I doubt he gets there. The sad thing is that it's not his performance that's holding him back, but the coaching staff and other players.
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I agree with what you are saying. He may be nothing, but a mediocre number 3 at that.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
Was appointed one of 5 team captains this season ... and has recently called out the O-Line for not giving Sanchez enough time to let his routes develop ...previous week, the WR's #####ed about Schotty's playcalling (too much Keller/LT) ... read in the NY Post yesterday that members of said O-Line are pissed, to say the least, and questioning why a captain aired dirty laundry 2 weeks in a row.
Can't fault the guy for wanting to get his, and can understand his frustration level ... but the BS that swirls around that locker room is an utter
at times.
Plax/Keller have cut into his pie quite a bit, and his injury didn't help ... last week was a very decent fantasy outing, his best of the season. But I don't see how he can climb above low end WR2 the rest of the way, given the circumstances in the swamp. Hoping for a big night tomorrow, then selling him at his apex, hopefully ...
Can't fault the guy for wanting to get his, and can understand his frustration level ... but the BS that swirls around that locker room is an utter
at times.Plax/Keller have cut into his pie quite a bit, and his injury didn't help ... last week was a very decent fantasy outing, his best of the season. But I don't see how he can climb above low end WR2 the rest of the way, given the circumstances in the swamp. Hoping for a big night tomorrow, then selling him at his apex, hopefully ...
SteelerMurf
Footballguy
What were Steelers thinking when they got rid of him?
We Tigers
Footballguy
Drafted him with high hopes. I think you're going to see a lot of games like last week and week 1; 4-5 catches, 60-70 yards, ok chance at a score. Probably a few more 2-catch stinkers in there, too. The Jets just aren't right on offense and he isn't demanding as a large a chunk of the passing game as I thought he would be; I'm not seeing much potential for the 10 catch/150 yard games everyone wants out of a receiver. I have him around 24/25ish going forward.
I know its never to early, but really?
Yes, you can take that straight to the bank!I know its never to early, but really?
It would be helpful to explain where your confidence comes from. If the OP agrees with your logic, I suppose that could be the necessary justification for the question about "buy low".Yes, you can take that straight to the bank!I know its never to early, but really?
drfeelgood
Footballguy
Evidentally it was Rex Ryan who was behind Holmes speaking out.Was appointed one of 5 team captains this season ... and has recently called out the O-Line for not giving Sanchez enough time to let his routes develop ...previous week, the WR's #####ed about Schotty's playcalling (too much Keller/LT) ... read in the NY Post yesterday that members of said O-Line are pissed, to say the least, and questioning why a captain aired dirty laundry 2 weeks in a row.Can't fault the guy for wanting to get his, and can understand his frustration level ... but the BS that swirls around that locker room is an utter
Holmes is a great talent, but people seemed to turn a blind eye to the fact that he's got one of the worst QBs in the NFL when ranking him this offseason. Put Holmes on a team with a mid-tier QB and I'm all about it, but he was pretty easy to avoid this year. The signs were there that he'd underperform his ADP (~WR17). I fully expect this to continue unless they quickly trade for Orton...
drfeelgood
Footballguy
I can't see Rex sitting Sanchaz.
Shutout
Footballguy
The case I would make for him improving is
-the schedule is not terrible.
-As the running game gets back on track it does two things: It opens up the play action big passing which Holmes is suited for and, in the past, when the team ran more, they left Keller in more for blocking which takes away competition for passes.
I can't say I am as oportunistic as the poster who said he will be a #1 the rest of the way but I can definitely see Holmes having a couple of big games from here on out...hopefully they are well timed ones for Holmes owners.
-the schedule is not terrible.
-As the running game gets back on track it does two things: It opens up the play action big passing which Holmes is suited for and, in the past, when the team ran more, they left Keller in more for blocking which takes away competition for passes.
I can't say I am as oportunistic as the poster who said he will be a #1 the rest of the way but I can definitely see Holmes having a couple of big games from here on out...hopefully they are well timed ones for Holmes owners.
TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
If there was ever a time to sell, it's now. Put up 60 yards and a score on a piss poor defense but only got 4 targets. He's just not a focus of the offense.
Two straight weeks of double digit fantasy points, you can probably market him as a WR2. I'll be trying to.
Two straight weeks of double digit fantasy points, you can probably market him as a WR2. I'll be trying to.
Shutout
Footballguy
I think this IS what he is from here on out (a WR2 that has a chance every week to get a TD). So I don't know if I actively sell him and make a pitch. I think most people see it about the same. But I would listen if someone knocked on my door asking for a WR. Maybe in a dynasty if you had Holmes and a BMW or Manningham, that would be a couple of young guys that someone may see as good for later and they would trade you a better, yet older player, for now.In dynasty, would Holmes/Manningham for Roddy White be crazy at this point if the one side is thinking Roddy turns it on now and the other side thinks both these younger WRs will be nice down the road?
We Tigers
Footballguy
If you are looking to trade him, here's a data point: on Friday, I dealt Holmes and Roethlisberger to a QB-needy owner for Austin and Jared Cook. As others have mentioned, he seems like a good piece to include in a package deal; it's easy for someone to look at the numbers and say "hey, I'm not losing that much with Holmes and I'm getting the better player at the other slot."
The TD grab last night was pretty, but low targets again. Gonna be a bit of a gamble every week with Sanchez and a Jets team that still looked sloppy overall.
The TD grab last night was pretty, but low targets again. Gonna be a bit of a gamble every week with Sanchez and a Jets team that still looked sloppy overall.
What would you expect in return? A RB like a Gore (which I am guessing would be the high side) or guys in the range of Stewart or McGahee?
TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
Probably somewhere in the middle- Daniel Thomas? BJGE?
GottaBohlieve
Footballguy
As an owner of Gore and Holmes, I would say that it is not even close right now. Gore is far more valuable at this point in time. And with McGahee running the way that he has been, I don't even think that I would trade him for Holmes. (Of course it would depend on my teams needs.) As you can probably tell, I'm not real high on Holmes right now, most likely because I have NO faith in Sanchez as a QB.
sweetness34
Footballguy
I'm with most everybody else - I'd like to trade Santonio, but for what? I also have Sanchez (behind Brady) and for as bad as the NYJ look at times, in my league, Sanchez has outscored Freeman, Cutler, Ryan, Big Ben and is 1 pt behind Schaub (of QB's that haven't had byes.) Seriously? The way people talk about Sanchez, you'd think he hasn't scored 10 points all year. (I'm not defending Sanchez at all - I'd love to dump him off, yet his actual production has been better than a lot of more popular "names" ahead of him.) I wish I could get rid of both Sanchez and Santonio, but the way the NYJ's look, I can't get rid of them for a cup of coffee. I guess we're just stuck with "ugly production" - not great, but decent.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
He's going to produce like a Top 20 WR the rest of the way IMO and basically do what people expected him to do when he was drafted.Its not like he was going against scrubs the last couple weeks either. He was likely covered most of the game by Devin McCourty and Vontae Davis (and Sean Smith is still a solid CB as well).'Shutout said:
sweetness34
Footballguy
Would Djax be enough of an upgrade?
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Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Depends what else youre giving up as you arent doing that straight up.
TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
He was covered by Charles Clay on the touchdown (awful dolphins pursuit) yesterday and his touchdown against the Pats a few weeks back was because of a mistake by the safety fwiw (although Holmes did have a pretty sick headfake on the play).I think 60 yards and a TD is about the ceiling for a weekly performance from here on out, not something you can expect regularly. I think he's a mid to low end WR3 going forward and like someone said earlier, is probably a good secondary piece in a trade. He's getting fewer targets than last year and Sanchez is spreading the ball around
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Kenny Powers
Footballguy
He was covered by Miami's FB on that play?
I dont see how someone who has put up a 1250yd season and was on pace for 1000 last year has a 60yd per game ceiling. 60yds should end up being his average game.TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
My bad, it was Cameron Wake.
TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
Checked out his target numbers and so far this year he's getting about 6 targets/game compared to around 8 last year.
2 targets per game might not seem like a lot but that's 25% of his production and I'm inclined to think it stays low. 6 games is a decent sample.
2 targets per game might not seem like a lot but that's 25% of his production and I'm inclined to think it stays low. 6 games is a decent sample.
TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
Hope Holmes owners traded him. Even though he had a TD catch taken away by a penalty, we saw Sanchez target Burress, Kerley, and Keller more often. Just 3 total targets on the day.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
He has been open multiple times, but dopey Sanchez can't get through his progressions. For the times that he actually makes the correct read, it's usually too late and the window is closed.
I'm not a big fan of the petulant personal side of Holmes, but he is a great route runner that makes some excellent catches. QB play and lousy play-calling limit his value.
I'm not a big fan of the petulant personal side of Holmes, but he is a great route runner that makes some excellent catches. QB play and lousy play-calling limit his value.
Frank Black
Footballguy
I imagine the market for him is very limited compared to what Holmes owners want for him.
He's not happy, that's for sure.
There's virtually no market for him so hold and hope for the best that Jets start catering to his wishes.
It's my fault really, he burned me another year, but for some reason I bought into the hype that he could be a legit #2.
There's virtually no market for him so hold and hope for the best that Jets start catering to his wishes.
It's my fault really, he burned me another year, but for some reason I bought into the hype that he could be a legit #2.
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THE SNOWMAN
Footballguy
Holmes is tied to Sanchez's skill obviously, I feel sorry for him personally.
Illegal Pants Downfield
Footballguy
I agree with posts #33-36. #32 may, indeed, be crazy. 
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
I traded Holmes/Tebow/Dallas Clark/Breaston for Witten/Lloyd/Manningham/Redman yesterday. I still like Holmes this year but I feel good about this.
MilwaukeeTed
Footballguy
Sanchez is the problem, not Holmes. He is a WR1 talent with WR3 production thanks to the QB play. Sanchez is horrible and I expect him to continue being horrible, and by extension, expect Holmes to continue his WR3 production for the rest of the season. Did I mention that Sanchez blows?
Its interesting because the Jets are trending to an 8-8 or possibly even a 7-9 team which would put them in the 12-18 range (I am guessing in the draft). Sanchez has regressed terribly this year. If they were playing well in spite of Sanchez, I could see them taking a QB in the early 2nd round of the draft and label him as "insurance" behind Sanchez (like Kolb with McNabb). But they are not going to get that close to the second round, and now they are likely looking at mid-round picks. I am not a big college guy, but have seen that Landry Jones (Oklahoma Jr) would be slated in the mid-first round by some draftniks. Again, there is a ton of time for people to declare, have good/bad combines, etc., but if a guy like Jones falls to them in the mid-first, they are in quite a quandry. By taking him, they admit defeat and that is that. If they pass on him (or another QB prospect available at that pick), basically Ryan and Tanny are putting their jobs in Sanchez's hands (scary thought).The alternative is to bring in a vet who can challenge for the job (guy like Henne...not that I would want him), but maybe his job is to push Sanchez as there is little to no threat to his job with Brunell backing him up.
TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
It seems like Holmes hasn't caught the ball without being more than 15-20 yards downfield this year. What happened to the deep ball Sanchez used to throw to him?
Another good call nostradomus...dont quit your day job.
TheFootballJesus
Footballguy
Plaxico Burress and Dustin Keller have each had more targets this year than Holmes. Pretty much sucks for fantasy owners. You'd think one of the best ways to jumpstart a sputtering offense would be to get your best receiver involved.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Even Nastrodoomus couldnt predict Sanchize to suck this bad.
heropretend
Footballguy
will be tough to sit him against the bills. mcgee is out for the year and i thought i saw 2 other dbacks go down. on offense, nelson not showing up and stevie j is on revis island.. fjax also quoted as "very very sore" and unlikely to play.
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Shutout
Footballguy
I had asked about this very thing a few weeks ago. I had said it seems as if the Jets hadn't thrown a ball more than 30-40 yards all season, literally. Then someone posted to me and said that was actual FACT; they have NOT. So, that in itself really hurts Holmes. He is still very good but he can't do his thing without the opportunity.Some people have been talkign about what if Sanchez were replaced by a rookie, etc. I don't think it would even have to be a rookie (that would take too long to develop). I think at this point, just a guy that isn't afraid to wing it would be awesome. It may sound CRAZY but,right now, I would be excited if Kyle Orton or someone like him replaced Sanchez. At least he would chuck the ball down the field. Basically, one long catch a game would be the difference between Holmes being what he is vs a solid everyweek top WR.Its not going to happen, so I guess what we are really hoping for is the Jets maybe become desperate enough to say "we must open this offense up and use Holmes and Keller more". Im hoping.
