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Saw Zero Dark Thirty (1 Viewer)

lombardi

Footballguy
What is wrong with people?I don't know how other people feel but this was a pretty gut wrenching movie. Not horribly graphic I guess but the opening 9/11 calls and the torture scenes are thematically pretty hard core. Some pretty interesting stuff to discuss afterwards, lots of threads devoted to this I'm sure. I thought it was pretty uncomfortable to watch, the movie was a great picture of what happens regardless of what side of the torture issue you're on.Anyway....Mom and pop sit behind me with their 8 year old. I was pretty shocked and even more so as the movie goes on. About an hour and a half into the 2hr40m movie the kids starts talking, asking how much longer, etc.. He says to dad "I didn't think there would be so much talking in this movie". Dad laughs and responds "neither did I" and asks mom "how long IS this movie?".Lots of attempts to explain things to the kid until he falls asleep. I know this because with about 15 minutes to go kid wakes up and says "the movies not over yet?", dad grumbles some more, something about the movie feeling like it's 4 hours long. When it ends, on our way out, dad turns to the kid and says "That's the last time we let you pick the movie, we should have seen the one with the littler girl" which I can only assume is Mama, another parent of the year selection for an 8 year old boy.Sadly the Klampets weren't the only people at the movie expecting Expendables 3. I overheard several people leaving the movie complaining, some quotes..."Cant' believe how long that was, I almost fell asleep...""I thought there would be a lot more action...""Why did the Marines have to shoot them so many times? They looked pretty dead (referencing the compound assault..."Lot's of laughing and eye rolling type reactions on the way out.Are people really this disconnected to what's really going on? They don't realize that people were really tortured, Marines really put their lives in danger, there really was a guy named Bin Laden that killed 3k of our fellow citizens, this was FREAKING REAL!!! It's not Battle Los Angeles or Independance Day. I don't care if you're a liberal, conservative, somewhere in the middle, or somewhere off the fringes, this wasn't a fictional drama.I left pretty much disgusted by the people around me.

 
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What is wrong with people?

I don't know how other people feel but this was a pretty gut wrenching movie. Not horribly graphic I guess but the opening 9/11 calls and the torture scenes are thematically pretty hard core. Some pretty interesting stuff to discuss afterwards, lots of threads devoted to this I'm sure. I thought it was pretty uncomfortable to watch, the movie was a great picture of what happens regardless of what side of the torture issue you're on.

Anyway....

Mom and pop sit behind me with their 8 year old. I was pretty shocked and even more so as the movie goes on. About an hour and a half into the 2hr40m movie the kids starts talking, asking how much longer, etc.. He says to dad "I didn't think there would be so much talking in this movie". Dad laughs and responds "neither did I" and asks mom "how long IS this movie?".

Lots of attempts to explain things to the kid until he falls asleep. I know this because with about 15 minutes to go kid wakes up and says "the movies not over yet?", dad grumbles some more, something about the movie feeling like it's 4 hours long. When it ends, on our way out, dad turns to the kid and says "That's the last time we let you pick the movie, we should have seen the one with the littler girl" which I can only assume is Mama, another parent of the year selection for an 8 year old boy.

Sadly the Klampets weren't the only people at the movie expecting Expendables 3. I overheard several people leaving the movie complaining, some quotes...

"Cant' believe how long that was, I almost fell asleep..."

"I thought there would be a lot more action..."

"Why did the Marines have to shoot them so many times? They looked pretty dead (referencing the compound assault..."

Lot's of laughing and eye rolling type reactions on the way out.

Are people really this disconnected to what's really going on? They don't realize that people were really tortured, Marines really put their lives in danger, there really was a guy named Bin Laden that killed 3k of our fellow citizens, this was FREAKING REAL!!! It's not Battle Los Angeles or Independance Day. I don't care if you're a liberal, conservative, somewhere in the middle, or somewhere off the fringes, this wasn't a fictional drama.

I left pretty much disgusted by the people around me.
Happens every time I go to a movie theater any more. We saw it this weekend and the wife turned to me and said, "Did we just watch Homeland lite?"
 
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saw it on Sunday and really liked it. not quite what i expected but i was riveted the whole time. i actually thought they'd spend more time with the military stuff (training, etc.), and less on the search.

 
Sounds like some America F yeahers.
I don't think it was even that. I think it was straight ignorance. First of all, who the hell brings an 8 year old to an R rated movie without AT LEAST reading about what's in it and what it's about. I think a 2 minutes review would tell you this isn't what you're looking for if you want an action packed war flick (not that I would bring my 8 year old to that either way). It didn't seem like people were seeing past the subtleties of the bigger questions and just HOORAH'ing Team 6 popping UBL. It was more a case of people who were looking to be entertained and they didn't expect history class. A real bread and circuses moment to me.
 
Did it have a totally unrealistic car chase? It can't be an action movie without a car chase that is so unreal you have to laugh.

 
I don't think it was even that. I think it was straight ignorance. First of all, who the hell brings an 8 year old to an R rated movie without AT LEAST reading about what's in it and what it's about.
That is amazing to me. 8 is about the age you start considering maybe PG-13, IMO
 
What is wrong with people?

I don't know how other people feel but this was a pretty gut wrenching movie. Not horribly graphic I guess but the opening 9/11 calls and the torture scenes are thematically pretty hard core. Some pretty interesting stuff to discuss afterwards, lots of threads devoted to this I'm sure. I thought it was pretty uncomfortable to watch, the movie was a great picture of what happens regardless of what side of the torture issue you're on.

Anyway....

Mom and pop sit behind me with their 8 year old. I was pretty shocked and even more so as the movie goes on. About an hour and a half into the 2hr40m movie the kids starts talking, asking how much longer, etc.. He says to dad "I didn't think there would be so much talking in this movie". Dad laughs and responds "neither did I" and asks mom "how long IS this movie?".

Lots of attempts to explain things to the kid until he falls asleep. I know this because with about 15 minutes to go kid wakes up and says "the movies not over yet?", dad grumbles some more, something about the movie feeling like it's 4 hours long. When it ends, on our way out, dad turns to the kid and says "That's the last time we let you pick the movie, we should have seen the one with the littler girl" which I can only assume is Mama, another parent of the year selection for an 8 year old boy.

Sadly the Klampets weren't the only people at the movie expecting Expendables 3. I overheard several people leaving the movie complaining, some quotes...

"Cant' believe how long that was, I almost fell asleep..."

"I thought there would be a lot more action..."

"Why did the Marines have to shoot them so many times? They looked pretty dead (referencing the compound assault..."

Lot's of laughing and eye rolling type reactions on the way out.

Are people really this disconnected to what's really going on? They don't realize that people were really tortured, Marines really put their lives in danger, there really was a guy named Bin Laden that killed 3k of our fellow citizens, this was FREAKING REAL!!! It's not Battle Los Angeles or Independance Day. I don't care if you're a liberal, conservative, somewhere in the middle, or somewhere off the fringes, this wasn't a fictional drama.

I left pretty much disgusted by the people around me.
Happens every time I go to a movie theater any more. We saw it this weekend and the wife turned to me and said, "Did we just watch Homeland lite?"
:lol:
 
Wouldn't have considered taking my boys to this movie when they were eight. That said, how could you tell the kid was eight? I can never guess how old kids are with any degree of accuracy.

 
I want to punch parents in the neck when I hear stories like this. My wife and I are debating the original Star Wars for my 6 year old son.Wow...just wow.

 
I don't think any kids should be allowed in R rated movies let alone an 8 year old (full disclosure: I don't have kids and can't stand them in most situations). How did you know he/she was 8?

 
Mom and pop sit behind me with their 8 year old. I was pretty shocked and even more so as the movie goes on. About an hour and a half into the 2hr40m movie the kids starts talking, asking how much longer, etc.. He says to dad "I didn't think there would be so much talking in this movie". Dad laughs and responds "neither did I" and asks mom "how long IS this movie?".
Yeah, I saw two small children at a 10pm showing of Django Unchained. This is child abuse, and no theater should be able to sell tickets to children for R rated films.
 
'jdoggydogg said:
Mom and pop sit behind me with their 8 year old. I was pretty shocked and even more so as the movie goes on. About an hour and a half into the 2hr40m movie the kids starts talking, asking how much longer, etc.. He says to dad "I didn't think there would be so much talking in this movie". Dad laughs and responds "neither did I" and asks mom "how long IS this movie?".
Yeah, I saw two small children at a 10pm showing of Django Unchained. This is child abuse, and no theater should be able to sell tickets to children for R rated films.
While I agree that it is not good for the child, and I would have no problem with a theater instituting that decision on its own, I would maintain that there should not be a "law" in place to prevent that (not sure if that is what you are implying by that line, but seemed like it.)
 
Lady sat down behind my wife and I for ZDT on Sunday ...with a boy that was maybe 6. He was a typical chatty kid, unaware of his surroundings. We moved to the other side of the theater before it began. We knew he'd be a nuisance throughout as he would be totally incapable of understanding the movie. :wall:

 
'jdoggydogg said:
Mom and pop sit behind me with their 8 year old. I was pretty shocked and even more so as the movie goes on. About an hour and a half into the 2hr40m movie the kids starts talking, asking how much longer, etc.. He says to dad "I didn't think there would be so much talking in this movie". Dad laughs and responds "neither did I" and asks mom "how long IS this movie?".
Yeah, I saw two small children at a 10pm showing of Django Unchained. This is child abuse, and no theater should be able to sell tickets to children for R rated films.
While I agree that it is not good for the child, and I would have no problem with a theater instituting that decision on its own, I would maintain that there should not be a "law" in place to prevent that (not sure if that is what you are implying by that line, but seemed like it.)
Well, I agree somewhat in principal that we shouldn't enact a law.I am certainly not against a responsible parent bringing a teen to a movie that the parent deems appropriate. But I don't know how anyone can make a reasonable argument that someone under the age of 10 should be allowed into these movies.

 
'jdoggydogg said:
Mom and pop sit behind me with their 8 year old. I was pretty shocked and even more so as the movie goes on. About an hour and a half into the 2hr40m movie the kids starts talking, asking how much longer, etc.. He says to dad "I didn't think there would be so much talking in this movie". Dad laughs and responds "neither did I" and asks mom "how long IS this movie?".
Yeah, I saw two small children at a 10pm showing of Django Unchained. This is child abuse, and no theater should be able to sell tickets to children for R rated films.
While I agree that it is not good for the child, and I would have no problem with a theater instituting that decision on its own, I would maintain that there should not be a "law" in place to prevent that (not sure if that is what you are implying by that line, but seemed like it.)
Well, I agree somewhat in principal that we shouldn't enact a law.I am certainly not against a responsible parent bringing a teen to a movie that the parent deems appropriate. But I don't know how anyone can make a reasonable argument that someone under the age of 10 should be allowed into these movies.
They are seeing much worse on their XBOX's and the internet.There, I tried. :shrug:

 
Lady sat down behind my wife and I for ZDT on Sunday ...with a boy that was maybe 6. He was a typical chatty kid, unaware of his surroundings. We moved to the other side of the theater before it began. We knew he'd be a nuisance throughout as he would be totally incapable of understanding the movie. :wall:
Should've waterboarded him.
 
'jdoggydogg said:
Mom and pop sit behind me with their 8 year old. I was pretty shocked and even more so as the movie goes on. About an hour and a half into the 2hr40m movie the kids starts talking, asking how much longer, etc.. He says to dad "I didn't think there would be so much talking in this movie". Dad laughs and responds "neither did I" and asks mom "how long IS this movie?".
Yeah, I saw two small children at a 10pm showing of Django Unchained. This is child abuse, and no theater should be able to sell tickets to children for R rated films.
While I agree that it is not good for the child, and I would have no problem with a theater instituting that decision on its own, I would maintain that there should not be a "law" in place to prevent that (not sure if that is what you are implying by that line, but seemed like it.)
Well, I agree somewhat in principal that we shouldn't enact a law.I am certainly not against a responsible parent bringing a teen to a movie that the parent deems appropriate. But I don't know how anyone can make a reasonable argument that someone under the age of 10 should be allowed into these movies.
They are seeing much worse on their XBOX's and the internet.There, I tried. :shrug:
They shouldn't be.
 
Dad took me to see Platoon when I was seven. Commack Multiplex. Glory. Coming to America. Midnight Run. Remember literally falling out of my seat when Chunk did the truffle shuffle. Good times bro. :thumbup:

 
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Are people really this disconnected to what's really going on? They don't realize that people were really tortured, Marines really put their lives in danger, there really was a guy named Bin Laden that killed 3k of our fellow citizens, this was FREAKING REAL!!! It's not Battle Los Angeles or Independance Day. I don't care if you're a liberal, conservative, somewhere in the middle, or somewhere off the fringes, this wasn't a fictional drama.
FULL DISCLOSURE: I have not seen it yet, but would like to. Probably on PPV later on.In a sense, this is the problem. Movies like Delta Force, Rambo, etc. you have all these explosions, car chases and action sequences that do not happen at all in the real world of war and/or intellegence operations. In movies like that, life is cheap - it's given its nod to value - but it's all about the body count, the explosions and catch-phrases to people like that.

I suspect many of the people disappointed where expecting something more riveting. They better not go see Lincoln - I don't think there's any Civil War battle scenes, either.

 
So the woman "Maya" is based off of, as well as her insistence that this particular courier was key, are one of the fifty ways the capture of UBL could have been depicted?

 
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I let my 10-year-old watch Die Hard. Child abuse?
Die Hard is like The Flintstones compared to Django and Zero.
I have no idea what's appropriate, and I'm absolutely not interested in telling anyone what's appropriate for their own kids.But I do find the distinctions to be a little odd.It seems many would consider certain violent movies to be more appropriate than ZD30, like maybe Die Hard. Cartoony, action movies, as they might be described.I'm not sure what's worse though.The cartoony action flicks show violence and sometimes murder with pretty much no regard for actual consequences. People seem to think it's better because doesn't seem so realistic. By nature, these movies are ridiculous. People shoot and kill others and just move on like it's no big deal.ZD30, on the other hand, shows torture. It shows people doing it for clearly defined reasons that are very easy to explain. Most importantly, you see the emotions of the man being tortured. It's not shown in some consequence-less world. It shows the pain. The viewing experience is far more disturbing.People see that as a problem, but shouldn't depictions of violence disturb people?I have no idea when a child is ready to discuss certain issues with, but there's at least some value to be gained from a conversation with a child following ZD30. The lesson from the "more appropriate" cartoony action movies is that, as long as you look good and say cool stuff, you can just kill the bad guy. No big deal. Also, driving like a maniac is a lot of fun and you'll live.
 
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'GordonGekko said:
What is wrong with people?

I don't know how other people feel but this was a pretty gut wrenching movie.

"Cant' believe how long that was, I almost fell asleep..."

"I thought there would be a lot more action..."

"Why did the Marines have to shoot them so many times? They looked pretty dead (referencing the compound assault..."

Are people really this disconnected to what's really going on?
** Potential Spoilers***

IMHO, the issue with Zero Dark Thirty is if you try to look at it as either a political film or a hard edged docu-drama. It actually is neither.

I find the film is simply internal fan service for Bigelow to project an "avatar" type character and try to mirror her perceptions of herself onto a contemporary topic. It's the only rational explanation for the film.

This is where celebrities, particularly actors and sometimes high profile writers, get themselves into trouble. In some cases, the "avatar" character is in a controlled situation and doesn't particularly damage the narrative. Dr Miranda Bailey from Greys Anatomy is an "avatar" representation of how show runner Shonda Rhimes feels about herself and sees herself. It's why the character is never wrong and the character progressively behaves in an unreal manner. The list is pretty long - Hermoine Granger is an avatar for JK Rowling's Potter series. She at least admits as much, but casted a girl, Emma Watson, far more attractive than what was described in the book, if only for self service. The vampire Lestat is an avatar for writer Anne Rice, which is why the character progressively turned from interesting villain to misunderstood bedrock of pseudo liberal pro homosexuality. Jack Ryan is the fictional version of Tom Clancy, who literally wrote the character into a corner as President because he simply couldn't contain making the character more super hero like.

In ZD30, Jessica Chastain's character, "Maya" is supposed to represent Bigelow. An "interloper" as a woman in a system run by men, for men, and dominated by men, but she carves her place into it anyway because she's smarter, better and more awesome. There is no other reason to explain the amount of torture in the film, which crosses over the line in Hollywood about how hard edge most liberals there would tolerate and actual allow such a bloated stilted poorly paced film to be an Oscar contender. IMHO, Bigelow essentially flushed the rest of her movie making career and what was left of her credibility through Hurt Locker to basically pat herself on the back on camera for three hours.

Maya, proclaims, "I'm the mother ####er who found UBL" to Panetta in a roomful of her superiors. In what could have been conceived in Bigelow's small mind as a high water mark moment where a female character shows shes just as good as the boys, comes off as bizarre and out of touch. It takes some serious arrogance to create a scene where a woman beats her chest and demands her equality when it's her female status in the first place that tempers all the male voices around her to allow it in the first place. I think this is what Bigelow doesn't get. Yes, she's the first woman to win Best Director and nail an Oscar for it. But most of her films were seen as either gifts or influenced by her ex husband, James Cameron, the literal money making printing machine for Hollywood.

The torture doesn't exist to serve the story. The torture exists to show "Maya" can take it like the big boys can and handle anything anyone dishes at her. Then her coworker interrogate her about her social and sex life, where the film devolves into a statement about the sacrifices a woman must make to be a career woman. But the scene is tinged enough to make absolutely sure that the character is not a lesbian, lest anyone pull attention away from her awesomeness. Then the coup de grace shot to the back of the head is the closing scene with the cargo plane lifting off, with one passenger, a crewman noting openly how important she must be and then having Chastain cry, to preserve her feminity in the bask of all her awesomeness. No wonder the movie was so stilted, there was no character development, lest anyone actually outshine the "Maya" avatar.

No wonder some Hollywood major players are furious. Not because of the torture, but because of the double cross. What should have been essentially a straight forward propaganda movie basically turned into Bigelow's three hour opus that reeks of masturbation of her infinite ego.

I get it. You won best director. You are one of the few female directors in Hollywood. But the entire film simply turns into a giant t shirt decrying her own awesomeness in a system designed to make her fail.

So instead of the pro Obama movie to help public sentiment for reelection, promised by major Hollywood players to DC, the film got pushed back release wise, not because of it's potential conflict of liberal interest from objective storytelling, but because it was simply a vanity vehicle that couldn't rely on good pacing, good storytelling and compelling characters because Bigelow has never shown to be able to effectively bring those to screen except when gift wrapped a package like Hurt Locker with Boal writing, Cameron leveraging and an elite young cast who elevated the material into just the right kind of liberal war movie that Hollywood does like.

Typical woman.

It's her world, the rest of us, including UBL, are just passing through. There were probably fifty different ways to have told this story and make it compelling. Instead it serves a proxy for Bigelow to figuratively rub one out for us on screen and demand we thank her for it afterwards. Now Hollywood has to make her pay for this type of high level rope a dope. The major players will smile when Chastain wins Best Actress but are certain to doom Bigelow's opportunities from here on out.
Yeah I think you may have read a bit too much into this and your real problem shines through pretty well.
 
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All those arguing for freedom, I get it. We don't need a law to keep children out of extremely violent R rated movies. However, I'll wager most of you making this argument wouldn't dream of taking your 7 year old to Django or Zero. So essentially you're arguing for the rights of really stupid parents. I really don't feel the need to champion the cause of morons.

 
All those arguing for freedom, I get it. We don't need a law to keep children out of extremely violent R rated movies. However, I'll wager most of you making this argument wouldn't dream of taking your 7 year old to Django or Zero. So essentially you're arguing for the rights of really stupid parents. I really don't feel the need to champion the cause of morons.
Freedom means people get to do stupid things you and I may disagree with as long as they don't hurt anyone. So it isn't championing morons it's recognizing morons are part of the deal.
 
All those arguing for freedom, I get it. We don't need a law to keep children out of extremely violent R rated movies. However, I'll wager most of you making this argument wouldn't dream of taking your 7 year old to Django or Zero. So essentially you're arguing for the rights of really stupid parents. I really don't feel the need to champion the cause of morons.
Freedom means people get to do stupid things you and I may disagree with as long as they don't hurt anyone. So it isn't championing morons it's recognizing morons are part of the deal.
I understand all that.
 
All those arguing for freedom, I get it. We don't need a law to keep children out of extremely violent R rated movies. However, I'll wager most of you making this argument wouldn't dream of taking your 7 year old to Django or Zero. So essentially you're arguing for the rights of really stupid parents. I really don't feel the need to champion the cause of morons.
Freedom means people get to do stupid things you and I may disagree with as long as they don't hurt anyone. So it isn't championing morons it's recognizing morons are part of the deal.
Are you saying you are sure this doesn't hurt the kids? I would think exposing them to things like that way to early in life could have detrimental effects.
 
'GordonGekko said:
What is wrong with people?I don't know how other people feel but this was a pretty gut wrenching movie."Cant' believe how long that was, I almost fell asleep...""I thought there would be a lot more action...""Why did the Marines have to shoot them so many times? They looked pretty dead (referencing the compound assault..."Are people really this disconnected to what's really going on?
** Potential Spoilers***IMHO, the issue with Zero Dark Thirty is if you try to look at it as either a political film or a hard edged docu-drama. It actually is neither. I find the film is simply internal fan service for Bigelow to project an "avatar" type character and try to mirror her perceptions of herself onto a contemporary topic. It's the only rational explanation for the film. This is where celebrities, particularly actors and sometimes high profile writers, get themselves into trouble. In some cases, the "avatar" character is in a controlled situation and doesn't particularly damage the narrative. Dr Miranda Bailey from Greys Anatomy is an "avatar" representation of how show runner Shonda Rhimes feels about herself and sees herself. It's why the character is never wrong and the character progressively behaves in an unreal manner. The list is pretty long - Hermoine Granger is an avatar for JK Rowling's Potter series. She at least admits as much, but casted a girl, Emma Watson, far more attractive than what was described in the book, if only for self service. The vampire Lestat is an avatar for writer Anne Rice, which is why the character progressively turned from interesting villain to misunderstood bedrock of pseudo liberal pro homosexuality. Jack Ryan is the fictional version of Tom Clancy, who literally wrote the character into a corner as President because he simply couldn't contain making the character more super hero like. In ZD30, Jessica Chastain's character, "Maya" is supposed to represent Bigelow. An "interloper" as a woman in a system run by men, for men, and dominated by men, but she carves her place into it anyway because she's smarter, better and more awesome. There is no other reason to explain the amount of torture in the film, which crosses over the line in Hollywood about how hard edge most liberals there would tolerate and actual allow such a bloated stilted poorly paced film to be an Oscar contender. IMHO, Bigelow essentially flushed the rest of her movie making career and what was left of her credibility through Hurt Locker to basically pat herself on the back on camera for three hours. Maya, proclaims, "I'm the mother ####er who found UBL" to Panetta in a roomful of her superiors. In what could have been conceived in Bigelow's small mind as a high water mark moment where a female character shows shes just as good as the boys, comes off as bizarre and out of touch. It takes some serious arrogance to create a scene where a woman beats her chest and demands her equality when it's her female status in the first place that tempers all the male voices around her to allow it in the first place. I think this is what Bigelow doesn't get. Yes, she's the first woman to win Best Director and nail an Oscar for it. But most of her films were seen as either gifts or influenced by her ex husband, James Cameron, the literal money making printing machine for Hollywood. The torture doesn't exist to serve the story. The torture exists to show "Maya" can take it like the big boys can and handle anything anyone dishes at her. Then her coworker interrogate her about her social and sex life, where the film devolves into a statement about the sacrifices a woman must make to be a career woman. But the scene is tinged enough to make absolutely sure that the character is not a lesbian, lest anyone pull attention away from her awesomeness. Then the coup de grace shot to the back of the head is the closing scene with the cargo plane lifting off, with one passenger, a crewman noting openly how important she must be and then having Chastain cry, to preserve her feminity in the bask of all her awesomeness. No wonder the movie was so stilted, there was no character development, lest anyone actually outshine the "Maya" avatar. No wonder some Hollywood major players are furious. Not because of the torture, but because of the double cross. What should have been essentially a straight forward propaganda movie basically turned into Bigelow's three hour opus that reeks of masturbation of her infinite ego. I get it. You won best director. You are one of the few female directors in Hollywood. But the entire film simply turns into a giant t shirt decrying her own awesomeness in a system designed to make her fail. So instead of the pro Obama movie to help public sentiment for reelection, promised by major Hollywood players to DC, the film got pushed back release wise, not because of it's potential conflict of liberal interest from objective storytelling, but because it was simply a vanity vehicle that couldn't rely on good pacing, good storytelling and compelling characters because Bigelow has never shown to be able to effectively bring those to screen except when gift wrapped a package like Hurt Locker with Boal writing, Cameron leveraging and an elite young cast who elevated the material into just the right kind of liberal war movie that Hollywood does like. Typical woman. It's her world, the rest of us, including UBL, are just passing through. There were probably fifty different ways to have told this story and make it compelling. Instead it serves a proxy for Bigelow to figuratively rub one out for us on screen and demand we thank her for it afterwards. Now Hollywood has to make her pay for this type of high level rope a dope. The major players will smile when Chastain wins Best Actress but are certain to doom Bigelow's opportunities from here on out.
Wat!
 
All those arguing for freedom, I get it. We don't need a law to keep children out of extremely violent R rated movies. However, I'll wager most of you making this argument wouldn't dream of taking your 7 year old to Django or Zero. So essentially you're arguing for the rights of really stupid parents. I really don't feel the need to champion the cause of morons.
Freedom means people get to do stupid things you and I may disagree with as long as they don't hurt anyone. So it isn't championing morons it's recognizing morons are part of the deal.
But children/minors aren't allowed equal footing on freedoms and rights.
 
'GordonGekko said:
What is wrong with people?I don't know how other people feel but this was a pretty gut wrenching movie."Cant' believe how long that was, I almost fell asleep...""I thought there would be a lot more action...""Why did the Marines have to shoot them so many times? They looked pretty dead (referencing the compound assault..."Are people really this disconnected to what's really going on?
** Potential Spoilers***IMHO, the issue with Zero Dark Thirty is if you try to look at it as either a political film or a hard edged docu-drama. It actually is neither. I find the film is simply internal fan service for Bigelow to project an "avatar" type character and try to mirror her perceptions of herself onto a contemporary topic. It's the only rational explanation for the film. This is where celebrities, particularly actors and sometimes high profile writers, get themselves into trouble. In some cases, the "avatar" character is in a controlled situation and doesn't particularly damage the narrative. Dr Miranda Bailey from Greys Anatomy is an "avatar" representation of how show runner Shonda Rhimes feels about herself and sees herself. It's why the character is never wrong and the character progressively behaves in an unreal manner. The list is pretty long - Hermoine Granger is an avatar for JK Rowling's Potter series. She at least admits as much, but casted a girl, Emma Watson, far more attractive than what was described in the book, if only for self service. The vampire Lestat is an avatar for writer Anne Rice, which is why the character progressively turned from interesting villain to misunderstood bedrock of pseudo liberal pro homosexuality. Jack Ryan is the fictional version of Tom Clancy, who literally wrote the character into a corner as President because he simply couldn't contain making the character more super hero like. In ZD30, Jessica Chastain's character, "Maya" is supposed to represent Bigelow. An "interloper" as a woman in a system run by men, for men, and dominated by men, but she carves her place into it anyway because she's smarter, better and more awesome. There is no other reason to explain the amount of torture in the film, which crosses over the line in Hollywood about how hard edge most liberals there would tolerate and actual allow such a bloated stilted poorly paced film to be an Oscar contender. IMHO, Bigelow essentially flushed the rest of her movie making career and what was left of her credibility through Hurt Locker to basically pat herself on the back on camera for three hours. Maya, proclaims, "I'm the mother ####er who found UBL" to Panetta in a roomful of her superiors. In what could have been conceived in Bigelow's small mind as a high water mark moment where a female character shows shes just as good as the boys, comes off as bizarre and out of touch. It takes some serious arrogance to create a scene where a woman beats her chest and demands her equality when it's her female status in the first place that tempers all the male voices around her to allow it in the first place. I think this is what Bigelow doesn't get. Yes, she's the first woman to win Best Director and nail an Oscar for it. But most of her films were seen as either gifts or influenced by her ex husband, James Cameron, the literal money making printing machine for Hollywood. The torture doesn't exist to serve the story. The torture exists to show "Maya" can take it like the big boys can and handle anything anyone dishes at her. Then her coworker interrogate her about her social and sex life, where the film devolves into a statement about the sacrifices a woman must make to be a career woman. But the scene is tinged enough to make absolutely sure that the character is not a lesbian, lest anyone pull attention away from her awesomeness. Then the coup de grace shot to the back of the head is the closing scene with the cargo plane lifting off, with one passenger, a crewman noting openly how important she must be and then having Chastain cry, to preserve her feminity in the bask of all her awesomeness. No wonder the movie was so stilted, there was no character development, lest anyone actually outshine the "Maya" avatar. No wonder some Hollywood major players are furious. Not because of the torture, but because of the double cross. What should have been essentially a straight forward propaganda movie basically turned into Bigelow's three hour opus that reeks of masturbation of her infinite ego. I get it. You won best director. You are one of the few female directors in Hollywood. But the entire film simply turns into a giant t shirt decrying her own awesomeness in a system designed to make her fail. So instead of the pro Obama movie to help public sentiment for reelection, promised by major Hollywood players to DC, the film got pushed back release wise, not because of it's potential conflict of liberal interest from objective storytelling, but because it was simply a vanity vehicle that couldn't rely on good pacing, good storytelling and compelling characters because Bigelow has never shown to be able to effectively bring those to screen except when gift wrapped a package like Hurt Locker with Boal writing, Cameron leveraging and an elite young cast who elevated the material into just the right kind of liberal war movie that Hollywood does like. Typical woman. It's her world, the rest of us, including UBL, are just passing through. There were probably fifty different ways to have told this story and make it compelling. Instead it serves a proxy for Bigelow to figuratively rub one out for us on screen and demand we thank her for it afterwards. Now Hollywood has to make her pay for this type of high level rope a dope. The major players will smile when Chastain wins Best Actress but are certain to doom Bigelow's opportunities from here on out.
Wat!
I really liked the movie, but I actually think Gekko makes some interesting points.I don't know exactly what happened and I don't know Bigelow, but I could see this being a Bigelow feminist ego masturbation piece.
 
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'GordonGekko said:
What is wrong with people?I don't know how other people feel but this was a pretty gut wrenching movie."Cant' believe how long that was, I almost fell asleep...""I thought there would be a lot more action...""Why did the Marines have to shoot them so many times? They looked pretty dead (referencing the compound assault..."Are people really this disconnected to what's really going on?
** Potential Spoilers***IMHO, the issue with Zero Dark Thirty is if you try to look at it as either a political film or a hard edged docu-drama. It actually is neither. I find the film is simply internal fan service for Bigelow to project an "avatar" type character and try to mirror her perceptions of herself onto a contemporary topic. It's the only rational explanation for the film. This is where celebrities, particularly actors and sometimes high profile writers, get themselves into trouble. In some cases, the "avatar" character is in a controlled situation and doesn't particularly damage the narrative. Dr Miranda Bailey from Greys Anatomy is an "avatar" representation of how show runner Shonda Rhimes feels about herself and sees herself. It's why the character is never wrong and the character progressively behaves in an unreal manner. The list is pretty long - Hermoine Granger is an avatar for JK Rowling's Potter series. She at least admits as much, but casted a girl, Emma Watson, far more attractive than what was described in the book, if only for self service. The vampire Lestat is an avatar for writer Anne Rice, which is why the character progressively turned from interesting villain to misunderstood bedrock of pseudo liberal pro homosexuality. Jack Ryan is the fictional version of Tom Clancy, who literally wrote the character into a corner as President because he simply couldn't contain making the character more super hero like. In ZD30, Jessica Chastain's character, "Maya" is supposed to represent Bigelow. An "interloper" as a woman in a system run by men, for men, and dominated by men, but she carves her place into it anyway because she's smarter, better and more awesome. There is no other reason to explain the amount of torture in the film, which crosses over the line in Hollywood about how hard edge most liberals there would tolerate and actual allow such a bloated stilted poorly paced film to be an Oscar contender. IMHO, Bigelow essentially flushed the rest of her movie making career and what was left of her credibility through Hurt Locker to basically pat herself on the back on camera for three hours. Maya, proclaims, "I'm the mother ####er who found UBL" to Panetta in a roomful of her superiors. In what could have been conceived in Bigelow's small mind as a high water mark moment where a female character shows shes just as good as the boys, comes off as bizarre and out of touch. It takes some serious arrogance to create a scene where a woman beats her chest and demands her equality when it's her female status in the first place that tempers all the male voices around her to allow it in the first place. I think this is what Bigelow doesn't get. Yes, she's the first woman to win Best Director and nail an Oscar for it. But most of her films were seen as either gifts or influenced by her ex husband, James Cameron, the literal money making printing machine for Hollywood. The torture doesn't exist to serve the story. The torture exists to show "Maya" can take it like the big boys can and handle anything anyone dishes at her. Then her coworker interrogate her about her social and sex life, where the film devolves into a statement about the sacrifices a woman must make to be a career woman. But the scene is tinged enough to make absolutely sure that the character is not a lesbian, lest anyone pull attention away from her awesomeness. Then the coup de grace shot to the back of the head is the closing scene with the cargo plane lifting off, with one passenger, a crewman noting openly how important she must be and then having Chastain cry, to preserve her feminity in the bask of all her awesomeness. No wonder the movie was so stilted, there was no character development, lest anyone actually outshine the "Maya" avatar. No wonder some Hollywood major players are furious. Not because of the torture, but because of the double cross. What should have been essentially a straight forward propaganda movie basically turned into Bigelow's three hour opus that reeks of masturbation of her infinite ego. I get it. You won best director. You are one of the few female directors in Hollywood. But the entire film simply turns into a giant t shirt decrying her own awesomeness in a system designed to make her fail. So instead of the pro Obama movie to help public sentiment for reelection, promised by major Hollywood players to DC, the film got pushed back release wise, not because of it's potential conflict of liberal interest from objective storytelling, but because it was simply a vanity vehicle that couldn't rely on good pacing, good storytelling and compelling characters because Bigelow has never shown to be able to effectively bring those to screen except when gift wrapped a package like Hurt Locker with Boal writing, Cameron leveraging and an elite young cast who elevated the material into just the right kind of liberal war movie that Hollywood does like. Typical woman. It's her world, the rest of us, including UBL, are just passing through. There were probably fifty different ways to have told this story and make it compelling. Instead it serves a proxy for Bigelow to figuratively rub one out for us on screen and demand we thank her for it afterwards. Now Hollywood has to make her pay for this type of high level rope a dope. The major players will smile when Chastain wins Best Actress but are certain to doom Bigelow's opportunities from here on out.
Wat!
I really liked the movie, but I actually think Gekko makes some interesting points.I don't know exactly what happened and I don't know Bigelow, but I could see this being a Bigelow feminist ego masturbation piece.
Could Bigelow obviously relate to the character? Of course. The rest of this just sounds like a guy who never got the girl.
 

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