a_rackowski
Footballguy
First here are a few of my comments. His email is logically correct. We use MFL.com.
We do not score for Blocked FG (my oversight - I should score for it). I posted the scoring system before the year and gave everyone a chance to critique. The problem is, his throught process makes perfect sense. However - I do not want to go back in the books and change records.
I need help making a decision as well as formulating a response to this guy. Carefully formulated because there is sure to be a response from him.
My Options:
1)Put it to a league vote - I truely think that the league would vote this down.
2)Just say no we cant change it, but then I am going to have a war with this guy - he is the kind of guy who will not give up his point of view(probably because he is a UW-Madison Grad).
3)Change the scoring and make a dramatic change in the standings. He goes from 1-1 to 2-0. The other team goes to 0-2 from 1-1.
Below I will post his logic.
Email #1
---------------
Andy-
I will get right to the point:
Vilma blocks a field goal, recovers it, returns it 6 yards and I get
0 points!!
Are you serious???
Brady fumbles and I lose 4. The guy that caused the fumble gets 2
points. How can that be worth (-4 and +2) and a blocked field goal,
recovery and return is nothing (-4 for PK and 0 for block, recovery and
return). At the very least, how does the recovery not count as 2 points
for a recovered fumble. Below is taken from NFL.com:
"4-6-NYJ12 (1:15) S.Gostkowski 29 yard field goal is BLOCKED (J.Vilma),
Center-L.Paxton, Holder-J.Miller, RECOVERED by NYJ-J.Vilma at NYJ 3.
J.Vilma to NYJ 9 for 6 yards (S.Neal, W.Britt)."
The kicker got negative points for a miss and the guys that tackled
Vilma were credited with tackles (if they were on fantasy rosters they
would have gotten points). How can every one else involved in the play
get points except for the guy who had the biggest impact in the play,
not once but 3 times. This is equivilent to the QB taking (-4) for an
INT and the guy picking it off and returning it, nothing. The kicker
missed the FG because it was BLOCKED - if that is (-4) how can the block
be nothing! Just as the QB didn't complete the pass because it was
picked-off. The guy who picked it off gets points. (The QB is
penalized -5, just as the PK is penalized -4. However the guy that
picked it off gets +5 and the guy who blocked the kick, recovered it,
and returns it get 0.)
Oh by the way, I lost by 1.2 points!!
Sorry, but I am not going to go away quitetly on this one!
Hopefully, this is an error that can be corrected. If not, we have an
issue with the scoring. I would love to hear an explanation about how
that play is worth nothing. A safety is worth 6, a sack is worth 5 and
a blocked field goal 0, recovered blocked kick 0 and return on a blocked
kick 0. I am sure you see where I am coming from. Talk to you soon.
I know the season is already under way, however, even the Constitution
can be amended.
--------------------------------------------------
email #2
-----------------
My revisions:
Blocked Kick (FG or punt) - 1 pt. Why? A pass defended is 1 point...at
the very least, this is equivalent to that. A defensive player knocked
the ball out of flight. (I believe it should be at least 3 points, up
to 6 points. Remember: an INT is 5 points and a safety is 6 points. A
FG block prevents 3 points from being scored. A safety only scores 2
and an INT can happen at the most meaningless times in a game. A FG
block may happen less often than a safety. I remember Andy saying the
safety was worth so much due to the rarity of it.)
Recovered Blocked kick (punt, FG and including on-side recovery) - 2
pts. Why? This is the same as any 'fumble' on any play. Vilma was
clearly on the defensive side of the ball at the start of a play when an
event during the play caused the ball to become live on the field.
Vilma recovered a live ball on the field of play when starting the play
on defense, that would be the definition of a 'recovered fumble'. Same
as any 'recovered fumble' scoring 2 pts. (I truly believe this is a
matter of word use. A "blocked kick" recovery is the same as a "fumble"
recovery.)
Return Yards on Turn-over (FG block, punt block, fumble, on-side kick
recovery and INT) - .1 pt for every 2 yards. Why? Actually this one is
debatable. Currently, there are no points assigned to return yards on a
fumble, on-side kick recovery, FG and punt block recovery - which I
think is an error. If INT's get .1 for every 2 yards, why wouldn't all
return yards on any "turn-over". I would term a "turn-over" as any play
where a player that was lined up on the defensive side of the ball when
the play began ends up with the ball in their teams' possession at plays
end. As far as I can think, FG block, punt block, fumble, on-side kick
and INT would be the ways this can happen.
At the minimum, my week 2 score should be revised by 3.3 points.
--------------------------------
I am guessing the response will be, "Everyone should have looked over
the rules before the draft. If anyone had any issues they could have
brought them up at that time. You have a good argument, BUT what can be
done?"
My response:
The scoring rules need to be changed retro-active week one. I do not
know if any other scores will be affected, but my week two score will.
There is no possible way that any one person (Andy) or 11 others (all
the other owners in the league who should have reviewed the rules) can
possibly think of all the scenarios that could arise during a season
that will affect the scoring. That doesn't mean mistakes (that nobody
caught or more importantly thought of) weren't made when drafting the
scoring system. The bigger mistake is not fixing obvious mistakes!
No, I do not think that anyone who has an issue (like not understanding
the waiver wire) can go to the commish crying about how the rules aren't
fair.
This is not one of those cases. I am not arguing over amount of points
awarded for an INT versus fumble recovery or how to pick up free agents.
This is a case of an obvious over-sight by all 12 owners. Obviously a
blocked kick is worth points. Obviously a recovered blocked FG is the
same as a recovered fumble, which is worth points. Obviously return
yards should be rewarded for ALL turn-overs, not only INT's.
I think all owners should be made aware of the scoring over-sights
WITHOUT bringing to their attention (minus Billy, Mike and Hybicki) that
an outcome of a game is on the line. (I would like see a poll put up
stating that a scoring over-sight has been found...no games will be
affected, but we need to revise the scoring. List the three points I
have above and I guarantee that the outcome of the poll would be in
favor of a revision.)
Andy, please realize I am not coming down on you or arguing with you.
Running a league has a million things to deal with (including owners
that cry about the league.) The scoring needs to be revised
retro-active the beginning of the year before more outcomes are affected.
Hey man, if this was a "let's have fun and get together to make Sundays
a little more interesting kind-of league," I would not be writing this
message. However, this is not! There is cash on the line and it cost
$140 to get in (to people that paid - I know, not me YET). These issues
and the others I brought up to you about FG's made and FG's missed need
to be adjusted retro-active the beginning of the year. We may have more
issues the same as this arise later on that have implications on money
paid out. No one thought of these scoring issues before the season.
However, that is not an excuse to do nothing.
Actually, we already have an issue that has implications on money paid
out! You know as well as I, that which teams make the playoffs usually
comes down to one game. That one game may have already happened to me
if nothing is done!!
We do not score for Blocked FG (my oversight - I should score for it). I posted the scoring system before the year and gave everyone a chance to critique. The problem is, his throught process makes perfect sense. However - I do not want to go back in the books and change records.
I need help making a decision as well as formulating a response to this guy. Carefully formulated because there is sure to be a response from him.
My Options:
1)Put it to a league vote - I truely think that the league would vote this down.
2)Just say no we cant change it, but then I am going to have a war with this guy - he is the kind of guy who will not give up his point of view(probably because he is a UW-Madison Grad).
3)Change the scoring and make a dramatic change in the standings. He goes from 1-1 to 2-0. The other team goes to 0-2 from 1-1.
Below I will post his logic.
Email #1
---------------
Andy-
I will get right to the point:
Vilma blocks a field goal, recovers it, returns it 6 yards and I get
0 points!!
Are you serious???
Brady fumbles and I lose 4. The guy that caused the fumble gets 2
points. How can that be worth (-4 and +2) and a blocked field goal,
recovery and return is nothing (-4 for PK and 0 for block, recovery and
return). At the very least, how does the recovery not count as 2 points
for a recovered fumble. Below is taken from NFL.com:
"4-6-NYJ12 (1:15) S.Gostkowski 29 yard field goal is BLOCKED (J.Vilma),
Center-L.Paxton, Holder-J.Miller, RECOVERED by NYJ-J.Vilma at NYJ 3.
J.Vilma to NYJ 9 for 6 yards (S.Neal, W.Britt)."
The kicker got negative points for a miss and the guys that tackled
Vilma were credited with tackles (if they were on fantasy rosters they
would have gotten points). How can every one else involved in the play
get points except for the guy who had the biggest impact in the play,
not once but 3 times. This is equivilent to the QB taking (-4) for an
INT and the guy picking it off and returning it, nothing. The kicker
missed the FG because it was BLOCKED - if that is (-4) how can the block
be nothing! Just as the QB didn't complete the pass because it was
picked-off. The guy who picked it off gets points. (The QB is
penalized -5, just as the PK is penalized -4. However the guy that
picked it off gets +5 and the guy who blocked the kick, recovered it,
and returns it get 0.)
Oh by the way, I lost by 1.2 points!!
Sorry, but I am not going to go away quitetly on this one!
Hopefully, this is an error that can be corrected. If not, we have an
issue with the scoring. I would love to hear an explanation about how
that play is worth nothing. A safety is worth 6, a sack is worth 5 and
a blocked field goal 0, recovered blocked kick 0 and return on a blocked
kick 0. I am sure you see where I am coming from. Talk to you soon.
I know the season is already under way, however, even the Constitution
can be amended.
--------------------------------------------------
email #2
-----------------
My revisions:
Blocked Kick (FG or punt) - 1 pt. Why? A pass defended is 1 point...at
the very least, this is equivalent to that. A defensive player knocked
the ball out of flight. (I believe it should be at least 3 points, up
to 6 points. Remember: an INT is 5 points and a safety is 6 points. A
FG block prevents 3 points from being scored. A safety only scores 2
and an INT can happen at the most meaningless times in a game. A FG
block may happen less often than a safety. I remember Andy saying the
safety was worth so much due to the rarity of it.)
Recovered Blocked kick (punt, FG and including on-side recovery) - 2
pts. Why? This is the same as any 'fumble' on any play. Vilma was
clearly on the defensive side of the ball at the start of a play when an
event during the play caused the ball to become live on the field.
Vilma recovered a live ball on the field of play when starting the play
on defense, that would be the definition of a 'recovered fumble'. Same
as any 'recovered fumble' scoring 2 pts. (I truly believe this is a
matter of word use. A "blocked kick" recovery is the same as a "fumble"
recovery.)
Return Yards on Turn-over (FG block, punt block, fumble, on-side kick
recovery and INT) - .1 pt for every 2 yards. Why? Actually this one is
debatable. Currently, there are no points assigned to return yards on a
fumble, on-side kick recovery, FG and punt block recovery - which I
think is an error. If INT's get .1 for every 2 yards, why wouldn't all
return yards on any "turn-over". I would term a "turn-over" as any play
where a player that was lined up on the defensive side of the ball when
the play began ends up with the ball in their teams' possession at plays
end. As far as I can think, FG block, punt block, fumble, on-side kick
and INT would be the ways this can happen.
At the minimum, my week 2 score should be revised by 3.3 points.
--------------------------------
I am guessing the response will be, "Everyone should have looked over
the rules before the draft. If anyone had any issues they could have
brought them up at that time. You have a good argument, BUT what can be
done?"
My response:
The scoring rules need to be changed retro-active week one. I do not
know if any other scores will be affected, but my week two score will.
There is no possible way that any one person (Andy) or 11 others (all
the other owners in the league who should have reviewed the rules) can
possibly think of all the scenarios that could arise during a season
that will affect the scoring. That doesn't mean mistakes (that nobody
caught or more importantly thought of) weren't made when drafting the
scoring system. The bigger mistake is not fixing obvious mistakes!
No, I do not think that anyone who has an issue (like not understanding
the waiver wire) can go to the commish crying about how the rules aren't
fair.
This is not one of those cases. I am not arguing over amount of points
awarded for an INT versus fumble recovery or how to pick up free agents.
This is a case of an obvious over-sight by all 12 owners. Obviously a
blocked kick is worth points. Obviously a recovered blocked FG is the
same as a recovered fumble, which is worth points. Obviously return
yards should be rewarded for ALL turn-overs, not only INT's.
I think all owners should be made aware of the scoring over-sights
WITHOUT bringing to their attention (minus Billy, Mike and Hybicki) that
an outcome of a game is on the line. (I would like see a poll put up
stating that a scoring over-sight has been found...no games will be
affected, but we need to revise the scoring. List the three points I
have above and I guarantee that the outcome of the poll would be in
favor of a revision.)
Andy, please realize I am not coming down on you or arguing with you.
Running a league has a million things to deal with (including owners
that cry about the league.) The scoring needs to be revised
retro-active the beginning of the year before more outcomes are affected.
Hey man, if this was a "let's have fun and get together to make Sundays
a little more interesting kind-of league," I would not be writing this
message. However, this is not! There is cash on the line and it cost
$140 to get in (to people that paid - I know, not me YET). These issues
and the others I brought up to you about FG's made and FG's missed need
to be adjusted retro-active the beginning of the year. We may have more
issues the same as this arise later on that have implications on money
paid out. No one thought of these scoring issues before the season.
However, that is not an excuse to do nothing.
Actually, we already have an issue that has implications on money paid
out! You know as well as I, that which teams make the playoffs usually
comes down to one game. That one game may have already happened to me
if nothing is done!!