Scouting college LBs (1 Viewer)

[eagles2007]

So a guy in my league jumped on Patrick Willis early in our draft around Labor Day.

It's got me thinking: What should you look for in the next stud LB when they are drafted?

Looking for any and all input.

 

[Rozelle]

Are you a subscriber? If so, Jean had a nice article on this some time ago.

If not, your missing out on some good stuff. I'm sure there is a thread in here somewhere pertaining to it.

 

[J Andersson]

As Rozelle said there are tons of very imformative stuff somewhere around here, but to keep it very simple:

I mainly scout (not necessarily in this order):

Position and System

- Position (MLB? WLB? SLB? MILB? SILB? WILB?)

- Defensive system (3-4 or 4-3, cover 2 and if so which version?, how does the line play - as in where are plays funneled?)

Individual ability given the position and system

- Read-and-react ability and overall instincts (a lot of the premier LBs aren't always the ones running the fastest of 40's or the ones that perform best in tests - see DeMeco Ryans)

- Ability to play the run (very important in leagues that greatly reward tackles)

- Ability to play the pass (could be very important especially when it comes to MLBs or WLBs in determining whether the player in question will be an all down backer or just a run down guy)

- Pass rushing ability (could mean plenty in leagues where scoring heavily rewards sacks)

- Physical ability (Tests are important to some extent. Tests+instincts almost assures you of finding a guy with sideline-to-sideline ability and thus will give the player many more opportunities to make plays)

- Level-of-competition in college (not often does a great NFL linebacker come from a small or unknown college? or am I wrong here?)

- Injury history

 

[Jene Bramel]

As Rozelle said there are tons of very imformative stuff somewhere around here, but to keep it very simple:

I mainly scout (not necessarily in this order):

Position and System

- Position (MLB? WLB? SLB? MILB? SILB? WILB?)

- Defensive system (3-4 or 4-3, cover 2 and if so which version?, how does the line play - as in where are plays funneled?)

Individual ability given the position and system

- Read-and-react ability and overall instincts (a lot of the premier LBs aren't always the ones running the fastest of 40's or the ones that perform best in tests - see DeMeco Ryans)

- Ability to play the run (very important in leagues that greatly reward tackles)

- Ability to play the pass (could be very important especially when it comes to MLBs or WLBs in determining whether the player in question will be an all down backer or just a run down guy)

- Pass rushing ability (could mean plenty in leagues where scoring heavily rewards sacks)

- Physical ability (Tests are important to some extent. Tests+instincts almost assures you of finding a guy with sideline-to-sideline ability and thus will give the player many more opportunities to make plays)

- Level-of-competition in college (not often does a great NFL linebacker come from a small or unknown college? or am I wrong here?)

- Injury history

There are a good number of solid linebackers who have come from smaller schools, though -- Kirk Morrison, Gary Brackett, Freddy Keiaho, Brian Urlacher, London Fletcher (and John Mobley for you old schoolers).

Thanks for the plug, Rozelle. Bob Magaw had a 21 bullet list of scouting pointers very early this season in his Ear to the Ground column. I'm planning to piggyback on that this year and expand the late season 2006 Reading the Defense column on this topic with a much more extensive look at my scouting thoughts -- buzzwords to look for in scouting reports and post-draft coaching comments and what you should be looking for in highlight tapes and preseason games.

If you're not a subscriber, the free IDP 101-401 podcasts are a nice glimpse into what we do on a weekly basis. The two part 401 series (about 45 minutes worth of goodness) discusses the details of scheme (first part) that JA notes above and some thoughts about what to look for in scouting reports (Bramel), college stat lines (Norton) and on tape (Bloom). You can find the podcast links in my sig or in the FAQ.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Started writing the RTD column with this in mind and realized I had forgotten about this thread from the Shark Pool last May.

Great read for those thinking about 2008, and a big reason why the discussion in these forums in the offseason is as good, and better in some respects, than it is inseason.

 

[J Giles Band]

Started writing the RTD column with this in mind and realized I had forgotten about this thread from the Shark Pool last May.

Great read for those thinking about 2008, and a big reason why the discussion in these forums in the offseason is as good, and better in some respects, than it is inseason.

Agreed... :IBTL: I'm looking forward to discussing James Laurinatis, Dan Connor, Keith Rivers, Ali Highsmith, Xaiver Adibi, Quentin Groves, Beau Bell, Shawn Crable, Phillip Wheeler, et al leading up to the draft.

And watching them in their respective bowl games.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

The linked thread is a must read as most of the information is very good. One aspect that I didn't see much discussion on was the ability and willingness to play at a high level while hurt. There are plenty of players with physical ability and looking at given samples of performances you can see many positive things in many different players. The players that stand out are the ones that are able to consistently play well despite being in tough situations. In the NFL players get hurt all the time. If you are going to bet money and draft players based on statistical projections, you really want to have some understanding of what situations you as a decision maker are going to be in week to week. Guys who consistently miss games due to injury should be avoided, not only because of the obvious 0 points for a missed game, but also because of the guess work that goes into deciding to sit or start a player coming off of an injury as well as the roster spot they take up and how that affects your ability to exploit a wider variety of matchups. Often times you don't have a great idea of how healthy a player is and if the team plans on cutting down his workload or not. The injury report in the NFL has tricky wording and coaches often put their own spin on the nature and extent of injuries. However there are players who tough it out and play with injuries that would sideline other players for weeks or even the whole year. The players who do this have a few things in common usually. They are leaders who play to win and give everything all the time and keep their teammates inline by holding them accountable. They consistently do the little things and sacrifice for the team. They may or may not be star players, but they aren't just there for a paycheck. They play for the love of the game and would play for free. This can go for any player on a team, from the youngest to the oldest, biggest to smallest. They will usually be very well respected and liked, often named Captain.

How do you recognize this on film? Look for the players with motors that don't quit. They may not make the play because they are so far away, but you'll see them come flying in late which means they will often make plays that become broken and extended. I look for offensive and defensive lineman who don't mind huffing and puffing 40 yards down the field every play chasing much faster and quicker players seemingly hopelessly. They understand that they may do this 30 times a game with no results, but when there is a fumble late in a play or some broken tackles that lead to some late developments in the play these guys are there as difference makers to either pounce on a fumble or pickup a key block. It's about desire and never giving up. There are these types of players and to contrast them you have guys who feel they are too slow or far away, and they may jog to the play to appear like they are doing something, or they may be fast players who bust their butts to get there but then are reluctant to dive headfirst into the pile for a loose ball. They are selectively timid and scared, you want to identify players who are fearless. Some players are just wired to only play one way all the time, others turn it on and off for various reasons. Another trait that I notice is the ability to innovate or improvise. These players work extremely hard and usually study just as hard. They are constantly thinking of new ways to do things better and adjust to situations that they may face, while at the same time having the heart to trust their instincts and implement these things on the fly. A great example of this type of this is Ed Reed making a pick, running it back then as he is getting tackled, pitching it to a teammate who has a chance to score. Most players aren't even allowed to do this type of stuff because it's so risky. This is not the type of play that is designed by coaches, it is a player making a play. Often times it's tough to tell if innovation is by design or more spontaneous and instinctive, but you will still see it and sometimes you can tell that this player just has "it". How players react to trying and failing these types of things often indicates a lot about their mindset as well. It takes a certain type of player to take these gambles in the first place and they won't always bode well for even the best players, but the future repercussions can clarify the overall picture of where a player is at mentally. That is what really matters in the highest levels of competition, regardless of the game. The differences in physical abilities amongst the best players will be insignificant when compared to the mental game of a player, the ability to deal with all the games within the game. It is hard to measure these things, but after following a sport for a couple years, and I mean really putting in lots of long hours, you start to see and understand who is better than who. It's not based on statistics, because stats are misleading. Fantasy sports don't measure who is better than who accurately. You don't always know how you know what you know, but you still have that innate understanding inside. Most people don't put in enough time playing and/or studying sports to develop this feel. You usually have to play sports competitively to completely respect what goes into it. If you just play in the backyard or in pickup games you don't really get to appreciate triumps and setbacks, the blood sweat and tears that go into dedicating 4,5,8+ hours of your life everyday for years to be great at something. You have to welcome and embrace the toll that chasing a dream really entails, and you have to be honest with yourself about it. This allows you to put yourself in the shoes of those you are watching, they are going through the same thing and you can get a better understanding of where their head is at. I think that this is lost on so many so called experts, especially those who were never athletes. I also think that many athletes turned analysts and/or coaches can't properly express how they know what they know or think they know more than they really do because they have an ego and can't be honest and look at things objectively. I do think it's possible to grasp these concepts fully without ever playing, but it's rare for a person to be able to do it. It helps a great deal if you have some sort of competitive background.

Sure all the other stuff mentioned plays a part in evaluating players too, you have to understand the fundamentals of the game before you can start basing evaluations on the mindsets of players. It matters how physically gifted a player is, how hard they study and strive to improve strengths as well as weaknesses, how well versed they are in the fundamentals and the application of them with respect to reaction time. And you can do some basic projections that account for offensive and defensive schemes, as well as surrounding talent and playing opportunity. Once you understand this stuff you will lump players into tiers. How you then decide between them can depend on many things. You may look at schedule, but you don't often know how good a team will be in week 15 based on what they've done in the past. There is just too much that can happen and the NFL is has a great deal of parity and turnover from year to year. Players are constantly getting hurt, emerging, regressing, getting older, etc. The one thing that is constant is that some players want it more than others. These are often the guys who were told they were too slow, too small, lacked this or that and just never gave up because it's just not what they do. Sometimes it the biggest, fastest, life-long blue chip players, and what they have in common is that they never give up either. That is why physical differences are not as significant at the highest levels of competetion, it's the mind that separates good players from great players.

A good way to illustrate this principle is to use examples from basketball. Namely Michael Jordan who I consider the pinnacle of mental toughness. He was extremely physically gifted, but there were guys just as athletic as him then and even moreso now. However winning and losing comes down to performing in the clutch and few if any players can rival MJ when the pressure is on. That is why we say something is Jordanesque and instantly everyone understands what that means. On the flip side of the coin you have a player like Larry Bird, not the most gifted athletically but the mind of a assassin as well and the crunch time resume to prove it. They were both great players, who worked at their craft extremely hard and had no reservations about sticking a dagger in anyone at any time in any game. That is the killer instinct, that is greatness. Very different backgrounds, body types, and games, but the parallels of mental traits, innovative creativity, and work ethics are legendary.

That's all I got for now, I could go on and on about this stuff. I'll reread this later on tonight or tomorrow, edit it a bit and add some things that apply for fantasy but not reality sports and vice versa. The moral of the story is that you must understand the statistical/technical fundamentals first then delve into the minds of the players based on the way they play to get an accurate picture of who they really are and project where they are going. Sorry if the post is too long for some of you and sorry if the post is not long enough for the few of you who really feel it.

 

[Warpig]

The linked thread is a must read as most of the information is very good. One aspect that I didn't see much discussion on was the ability and willingness to play at a high level while hurt. There are plenty of players with physical ability and looking at given samples of performances you can see many positive things in many different players. The players that stand out are the ones that are able to consistently play well despite being in tough situations. In the NFL players get hurt all the time. If you are going to bet money and draft players based on statistical projections, you really want to have some understanding of what situations you as a decision maker are going to be in week to week. Guys who consistently miss games due to injury should be avoided, not only because of the obvious 0 points for a missed game, but also because of the guess work that goes into deciding to sit or start a player coming off of an injury as well as the roster spot they take up and how that affects your ability to exploit a wider variety of matchups. Often times you don't have a great idea of how healthy a player is and if the team plans on cutting down his workload or not. The injury report in the NFL has tricky wording and coaches often put their own spin on the nature and extent of injuries. However there are players who tough it out and play with injuries that would sideline other players for weeks or even the whole year. The players who do this have a few things in common usually. They are leaders who play to win and give everything all the time and keep their teammates inline by holding them accountable. They consistently do the little things and sacrifice for the team. They may or may not be star players, but they aren't just there for a paycheck. They play for the love of the game and would play for free. This can go for any player on a team, from the youngest to the oldest, biggest to smallest. They will usually be very well respected and liked, often named Captain. How do you recognize this on film? Look for the players with motors that don't quit. They may not make the play because they are so far away, but you'll see them come flying in late which means they will often make plays that become broken and extended. I look for offensive and defensive lineman who don't mind huffing and puffing 40 yards down the field every play chasing much faster and quicker players seemingly hopelessly. They understand that they may do this 30 times a game with no results, but when there is a fumble late in a play or some broken tackles that lead to some late developments in the play these guys are there as difference makers to either pounce on a fumble or pickup a key block. It's about desire and never giving up. There are these types of players and to contrast them you have guys who feel they are too slow or far away, and they may jog to the play to appear like they are doing something, or they may be fast players who bust their butts to get there but then are reluctant to dive headfirst into the pile for a loose ball. They are selectively timid and scared, you want to identify players who are fearless. Some players are just wired to only play one way all the time, others turn it on and off for various reasons. Another trait that I notice is the ability to innovate or improvise. These players work extremely hard and usually study just as hard. They are constantly thinking of new ways to do things better and adjust to situations that they may face, while at the same time having the heart to trust their instincts and implement these things on the fly. A great example of this type of this is Ed Reed making a pick, running it back then as he is getting tackled, pitching it to a teammate who has a chance to score. Most players aren't even allowed to do this type of stuff because it's so risky. This is not the type of play that is designed by coaches, it is a player making a play. Often times it's tough to tell if innovation is by design or more spontaneous and instinctive, but you will still see it and sometimes you can tell that this player just has "it". How players react to trying and failing these types of things often indicates a lot about their mindset as well. It takes a certain type of player to take these gambles in the first place and they won't always bode well for even the best players, but the future repercussions can clarify the overall picture of where a player is at mentally. That is what really matters in the highest levels of competition, regardless of the game. The differences in physical abilities amongst the best players will be insignificant when compared to the mental game of a player, the ability to deal with all the games within the game. It is hard to measure these things, but after following a sport for a couple years, and I mean really putting in lots of long hours, you start to see and understand who is better than who. It's not based on statistics, because stats are misleading. Fantasy sports don't measure who is better than who accurately. You don't always know how you know what you know, but you still have that innate understanding inside. Most people don't put in enough time playing and/or studying sports to develop this feel. You usually have to play sports competitively to completely respect what goes into it. If you just play in the backyard or in pickup games you don't really get to appreciate triumps and setbacks, the blood sweat and tears that go into dedicating 4,5,8+ hours of your life everyday for years to be great at something. You have to welcome and embrace the toll that chasing a dream really entails, and you have to be honest with yourself about it. This allows you to put yourself in the shoes of those you are watching, they are going through the same thing and you can get a better understanding of where their head is at. I think that this is lost on so many so called experts, especially those who were never athletes. I also think that many athletes turned analysts and/or coaches can't properly express how they know what they know or think they know more than they really do because they have an ego and can't be honest and look at things objectively. I do think it's possible to grasp these concepts fully without ever playing, but it's rare for a person to be able to do it. It helps a great deal if you have some sort of competitive background. Sure all the other stuff mentioned plays a part in evaluating players too, you have to understand the fundamentals of the game before you can start basing evaluations on the mindsets of players. It matters how physically gifted a player is, how hard they study and strive to improve strengths as well as weaknesses, how well versed they are in the fundamentals and the application of them with respect to reaction time. And you can do some basic projections that account for offensive and defensive schemes, as well as surrounding talent and playing opportunity. Once you understand this stuff you will lump players into tiers. How you then decide between them can depend on many things. You may look at schedule, but you don't often know how good a team will be in week 15 based on what they've done in the past. There is just too much that can happen and the NFL is has a great deal of parity and turnover from year to year. Players are constantly getting hurt, emerging, regressing, getting older, etc. The one thing that is constant is that some players want it more than others. These are often the guys who were told they were too slow, too small, lacked this or that and just never gave up because it's just not what they do. Sometimes it the biggest, fastest, life-long blue chip players, and what they have in common is that they never give up either. That is why physical differences are not as significant at the highest levels of competetion, it's the mind that separates good players from great players. A good way to illustrate this principle is to use examples from basketball. Namely Michael Jordan who I consider the pinnacle of mental toughness. He was extremely physically gifted, but there were guys just as athletic as him then and even moreso now. However winning and losing comes down to performing in the clutch and few if any players can rival MJ when the pressure is on. That is why we say something is Jordanesque and instantly everyone understands what that means. On the flip side of the coin you have a player like Larry Bird, not the most gifted athletically but the mind of a assassin as well and the crunch time resume to prove it. They were both great players, who worked at their craft extremely hard and had no reservations about sticking a dagger in anyone at any time in any game. That is the killer instinct, that is greatness. Very different backgrounds, body types, and games, but the parallels of mental traits, innovative creativity, and work ethics are legendary. That's all I got for now, I could go on and on about this stuff. I'll reread this later on tonight or tomorrow, edit it a bit and add some things that apply for fantasy but not reality sports and vice versa. The moral of the story is that you must understand the statistical/technical fundamentals first then delve into the minds of the players based on the way they play to get an accurate picture of who they really are and project where they are going. Sorry if the post is too long for some of you and sorry if the post is not long enough for the few of you who really feel it.

Gone With the Wind part 2.

 

[J Giles Band]

Feel like I just read War & Peace... twice.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I was gonna edit it and add some things, but I can see that 1-2 pages is just too much to read for the average cat. If you want to discuss football concepts on a significant level just PM me.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I was gonna edit it and add some things, but I can see that 1-2 pages is just too much to read for the average cat. If you want to discuss football concepts on a significant level just PM me.

I'd appreciate the edit and further discussion. I enjoyed the "unabridged" version. I'm pretty sure the last two posts were intended in good fun. I get the same ribbing after some of my posts that require the scroll function to finish reading.

 

[J Giles Band]

I was gonna edit it and add some things, but I can see that 1-2 pages is just too much to read for the average cat. If you want to discuss football concepts on a significant level just PM me.

I'd appreciate the edit and further discussion. I enjoyed the "unabridged" version. I'm pretty sure the last two posts were intended in good fun. I get the same ribbing after some of my posts that require the scroll function to finish reading.

Mine was absolutely intended in good fun. Talking about IN DEPTH... Wow! And yes, despite my poking fun, I too enjoy talking football on a 'significant' level. I may not have all day to read it, but no doubt it is good stuff.

 

[Warpig]

Assuming I have the 12th or 13th pick in a 32 team dynasty league with IDP, do you think LAURINAITIS would be available or would he be gone sooner? What about Dan Connor?

How is LAURINAITIS at shedding blockers? He seems a bit smallish to me to play the middle which is why I'm concerned about his ability to fight through the muck in the middle.

I need serious help at the LB spot...other than David Harris I don't have any others worthy of starting.

Does anyone have a good scouting report on LAURINAITIS and his abilities? Is he more of a safety in the NFL?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I was gonna edit it and add some things, but I can see that 1-2 pages is just too much to read for the average cat. If you want to discuss football concepts on a significant level just PM me.

I thought it was a great read as well. The length of the post was fine, as it was very detailed. If I may offer a suggestion though, it would be to break some of the longer paragraphs into multiple shorter ones, to make it easier on the eyes of us older blinder folks. Great post regardless.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

Assuming I have the 12th or 13th pick in a 32 team dynasty league with IDP, do you think LAURINAITIS would be available or would he be gone sooner? What about Dan Connor? How is LAURINAITIS at shedding blockers? He seems a bit smallish to me to play the middle which is why I'm concerned about his ability to fight through the muck in the middle. I need serious help at the LB spot...other than David Harris I don't have any others worthy of starting. Does anyone have a good scouting report on LAURINAITIS and his abilities? Is he more of a safety in the NFL?

James is 6'3'/244, so i don't think he's 'smallish'. he's got more prototype size than the majority of LB'ers coming into the league this year or the past few years. he'll test out at the combine better athletically than recent buckeye talent AJ Hawk or Poz and David harris. i can't say that he has the instincts of Hawk but he's not lacking either. he's a classic run stuffer with the athletcism to play the pass, but like david harris/Poz coaches will have to work with him in pass coverage. he'll make a fine pro, whether he starts right away or not is anyone's guess. i'm a diehard wolverine fan and i'll admit i see more wow factor in Crabble but i think Laurinaitis will make a much bigger impact in the NFL.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Assuming I have the 12th or 13th pick in a 32 team dynasty league with IDP, do you think LAURINAITIS would be available or would he be gone sooner? What about Dan Connor? How is LAURINAITIS at shedding blockers? He seems a bit smallish to me to play the middle which is why I'm concerned about his ability to fight through the muck in the middle. I need serious help at the LB spot...other than David Harris I don't have any others worthy of starting. Does anyone have a good scouting report on LAURINAITIS and his abilities? Is he more of a safety in the NFL?

This is Bloom's realm for now. I won't have any considered opinions on the newbies until at least February.

 

[Warpig]

Assuming I have the 12th or 13th pick in a 32 team dynasty league with IDP, do you think LAURINAITIS would be available or would he be gone sooner? What about Dan Connor?

How is LAURINAITIS at shedding blockers? He seems a bit smallish to me to play the middle which is why I'm concerned about his ability to fight through the muck in the middle.

I need serious help at the LB spot...other than David Harris I don't have any others worthy of starting.

Does anyone have a good scouting report on LAURINAITIS and his abilities? Is he more of a safety in the NFL?

James is 6'3'/244, so i don't think he's 'smallish'. he's got more prototype size than the majority of LB'ers coming into the league this year or the past few years. he'll test out at the combine better athletically than recent buckeye talent AJ Hawk or Poz and David harris. i can't say that he has the instincts of Hawk but he's not lacking either. he's a classic run stuffer with the athletcism to play the pass, but like david harris/Poz coaches will have to work with him in pass coverage. he'll make a fine pro, whether he starts right away or not is anyone's guess. i'm a diehard wolverine fan and i'll admit i see more wow factor in Crabble but i think Laurinaitis will make a much bigger impact in the NFL.

I saw this on the website. Man, he just doesn't look that big to me. He seems a bit wirey. And I know how they tend to inflate measurables in programs to make them more appealing.But I guess the only thing that matters is that he has been able to play the middle very well in a good program.

I'm curious to see what his measurables are at the combine.

Thanks for the info!

 

[J Giles Band]

Anyone watch the USC-Illinois game today? Sedrick Ellis and Ray Maualuga were all over the field for the SC defense.

Interested to hear guys thoughts on any of the pro prospects play in the bowl games.

 

[J Andersson]

he'll make a fine pro, whether he starts right away or not is anyone's guess.

I agree - to me he looks like a prime candidate to man the middle in either a 4-3 or a 3-4 and he might be too good a prospect to slip by New England at 1.07 (if they don't trade the heck out of there).Being a New England fan I would no doubt love that pick but for FF purposes it concerns me. I think Laurinaitis might have to spend some time being the understudy to Bruschi and even if he were to start early in his career I don't see him being in a great situation for FF production. Bill Belichick's schemes tend to put a very high emphasis on trying to shutting down one or two strengths of the opponents offense thus his players and LBs in particular will play a different style of game (rushing the passer, sliding back to defend the pass, run-blitzing) every now and then making consistency an issue. It's not that the numbers will be awful but I don't see a DeMeco Ryans, Patrick Willis kind of impact if he were to land in New England. Of course, you won't have to be a rocket scientist to state such an obvious fact, given that New England in most games will dominate the time of possession (for the foreseeable future) and thus limit the amount of snaps given to their defense.

 

[jgb95]

he'll make a fine pro, whether he starts right away or not is anyone's guess.

I agree - to me he looks like a prime candidate to man the middle in either a 4-3 or a 3-4 and he might be too good a prospect to slip by New England at 1.08 (if they don't trade the heck out of there).Being a New England fan I would no doubt love that pick but for FF purposes it concerns me. I think Laurinaitis might have to spend some time being the understudy to Bruschi and even if he were to start early in his career I don't see him being in a great situation for FF production. Bill Belichick's schemes tend to put a very high emphasis on trying to shutting down one or two strengths of the opponents offense thus his players and LBs in particular will play a different style of game (rushing the passer, sliding back to defend the pass, run-blitzing) every now and then making consistency an issue. It's not that the numbers will be awful but I don't see a DeMeco Ryans, Patrick Willis kind of impact if he were to land in New England. Of course, you won't have to be a rocket scientist to state such an obvious fact, given that New England in most games will dominate the time of possession (for the foreseeable future) and thus limit the amount of snaps given to their defense.

Pats hold the 1.07

 

[J Andersson]

Pats hold the 1.07

My bad - now it's fixed. I still see Laurinaitis being their pick if exercised though...

 

[J Andersson]

Anyone watch the USC-Illinois game today? Sedrick Ellis and Ray Maualuga were all over the field for the SC defense.Interested to hear guys thoughts on any of the pro prospects play in the bowl games.

Good call - before I watched the game Sedrick Ellis was, in my opinion, a tad overrated in mock drafts and I had Maualuga a bit underrated.It looks as if I were wrong on Ellis and if I were running the draft show in Cincinnati or Denver I would be thrilled if Ellis came within reach. Maualuga looks like a better version of Lofa Tatupu to me and adds possibilities for LB needy teams.

 

[J Giles Band]

Good call - before I watched the game Sedrick Ellis was, in my opinion, a tad overrated in mock drafts and I had Maualuga a bit underrated.It looks as if I were wrong on Ellis and if I were running the draft show in Cincinnati or Denver I would be thrilled if Ellis came within reach. Maualuga looks like a better version of Lofa Tatupu to me and adds possibilities for LB needy teams.

Maualuga has already stated that he is going to come back next year for his senior season at SC. Not sure if the Rose Bowl MVP performance has any bearing on that or not.Ellis has been dominant evey game I've watched this year. He isn't always involved in the play (like most DT's) but he is always penetrating the line of scrimmage. Seems like he is in the backfield every play. I really like Glen Dorsey, but I'm not sure there is as much separation between them (if any) as many believe.I think the jury is out on their other seniors (for IDP purposes) - Rivers, Jackson and Thomas haven't knocked me down with their play. I am interested to see how underclassman LB Cushing develops.

 

[J Andersson]

Maualuga has already stated that he is going to come back next year for his senior season at SC. Not sure if the Rose Bowl MVP performance has any bearing on that or not.

That's true - completely missed that He does present an even better option for the 2009 draft then...I agree on Lawrence Jackson - he has me somewhat puzzled - size-wise he appears a fit for the NFL but I haven't seen him perform lately.

 

[J Giles Band]

It will be interesting to see where Jackson, Rivers, Thomas et al get drafted. Ellis is an apparent top-15 pick but I'm not sure about the others. First day picks most likely, but not sure if any of the others crack the 1st round.

 

[redman]

Maualuga has already stated that he is going to come back next year for his senior season at SC. Not sure if the Rose Bowl MVP performance has any bearing on that or not.

That's true - completely missed that He does present an even better option for the 2009 draft then...I agree on Lawrence Jackson - he has me somewhat puzzled - size-wise he appears a fit for the NFL but I haven't seen him perform lately.

I agree that Maualuga has made that statement, but IMHO if he's told he's drafted in the first round he'll enter the draft. I think they have to commit in the next two weeks, so we'll find out soon enough. He's a monster out there, and if put in the right system could be another Rey Lewis IMHO.

 

[awesomeness]

anyone know why Trevor Laws out of ND isnt getting much NFL hype? From everything i have seen from him he has been fantastic. The only possible bad point about him im guessing is that he is undersized? (even though he has never looked undersized when i have seen him play)

 

[J Andersson]

anyone know why Trevor Laws out of ND isnt getting much NFL hype? From everything i have seen from him he has been fantastic. The only possible bad point about him im guessing is that he is undersized? (even though he has never looked undersized when i have seen him play)

The obvious fact I guess would be that he's played on a team that's had the worst season in franchise history.However, Laws is undersized (especially when it comes to height, 6´1´´).While Laws has a great motor and appears to have the strength required for the position he is not a great athlete and is not overly stout at the point of attack. He also appears to lack defined pass rush skills.To me it seems as if he has got limited upside in the NFL. Even though he had a great senior year (112 tackles) most of the gaudy stats can be attributed to a whole deal of playing time for the Fighting Irish defense. Laws is not big, not athletic enough, not great versus the run and not very good when it comes to pursuing the quarterback. While a player like Sedrick Ellis also does have a size issue, he does come with the ability to wreak havoc, something Laws definitely doesn't. Does he belong in the NFL? Yeah, most likely. Will he be a starter? I don't see it, not in the near future at least.

 

[J Giles Band]

I enjoy reading insight on specific prospects. Those of you especially familiar with draft eligible players from your school please chime in.

 

[awesomeness]

anyone know why Trevor Laws out of ND isnt getting much NFL hype? From everything i have seen from him he has been fantastic. The only possible bad point about him im guessing is that he is undersized? (even though he has never looked undersized when i have seen him play)

The obvious fact I guess would be that he's played on a team that's had the worst season in franchise history.However, Laws is undersized (especially when it comes to height, 6´1´´).While Laws has a great motor and appears to have the strength required for the position he is not a great athlete and is not overly stout at the point of attack. He also appears to lack defined pass rush skills.To me it seems as if he has got limited upside in the NFL. Even though he had a great senior year (112 tackles) most of the gaudy stats can be attributed to a whole deal of playing time for the Fighting Irish defense. Laws is not big, not athletic enough, not great versus the run and not very good when it comes to pursuing the quarterback. While a player like Sedrick Ellis also does have a size issue, he does come with the ability to wreak havoc, something Laws definitely doesn't. Does he belong in the NFL? Yeah, most likely. Will he be a starter? I don't see it, not in the near future at least.

Laws seemed to wreak havoc in the games that i watched. He seemed to be wear the ball was on the majority of the plays. If hes not good at stopping the run or rushing the passer, how did he get 112 tackles? Im honestly asking, as i only saw Laws in 2-3 games and he looked great in all of them.

 

[J Andersson]

Laws seemed to wreak havoc in the games that i watched. He seemed to be wear the ball was on the majority of the plays. If hes not good at stopping the run or rushing the passer, how did he get 112 tackles? Im honestly asking, as i only saw Laws in 2-3 games and he looked great in all of them.

Well, the question was whether Laws deserved NFL hype or not. My opinion (which may very well be moot) is that he does not. Laws is a fine college player no doubt about that and he belongs on a roster in the NFL. However, to be worthy of NFL hype (which I assumed meant he would have early impact as a starter) as a DT, with a size of 6´1´´ (close to 6´0´´) 295 lbs, you need to be nothing short of absolutely dominant. I didn't see Laws dominate in that sense. Furthermore, I don't see much future upside to his game that could lead me to believe he'll evolve as a player.Apart from the 3 games won (the last two against Duke and Stanford, hardly top opposition) by Notre Dame their defense gave up 27-46 points in the 9 losses. As I did write earlier I think the 112 tackles can be (at the very least) in part explained by the amount of playing time the Notre Dame defense and Laws got. Granted this is a team sport and Laws cannot single-handedly stop the scoring of opposing teams. I'm still going to say he's not going to be a starter in the NFL anytime soon.BTW, maybe we should start a Trevor Laws topic instead of hijacking this thread (on scouting college LBs)?

 

[money.never.sleeps]

Can anyone tell me the scouting report on Maryland LB Erin Henderson and where he stacks up compared to other top LB like Laurinaitis? I know the guy makes plays and played hurt only missing 1 game I believe.

 

[J Giles Band]

Is he any relation to E.J. Henderson?

 

[obxlegends]

Is he any relation to E.J. Henderson?

Yes, of course he is. Personal: Born July 1, 1986 ... parents are Eric and Quinette Henderson ... older brother, E.J., was a two-time consensus All-American and ACC Defensive Player of the Year (2001-02) who won the Butkus and Bednarik awards while at Maryland ... currently plays for the Minnesota Vikings ... a communications major ... hometown is the same as that of retired major league baseball all-star Cal Ripken, Jr.

Link: http://umterps.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mt...son_erin00.html