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Seattle at New England (2 Viewers)

Looked to me like Gronk was far more interested in trying to generate a flag than he was in getting open...ran straight into the defender (who was backing up) initiating the contact, and even grabbed him briefly. Defender grabbed back breifly AFTER the contact, but might have been as much to keep his own balance as much as anything else.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
It's a percentage play.  If you are at 47% the chance of you winning up 9 is what?  80%, 85%?  So you have to think that if the Pats score their 2 point play is among the best in the NFL, maybe more like 60 to 65%.  I really like that call to be honest, almost no one else would do that and had they made it it would be a completely different game now.  As it stands had they kicked the PAT, nothing really has changed.  
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Fancy Stats  :football:

 
proninja said:
Wait, people wanted a flag on chancellor after gronk initiated contact and shoved him down?
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new england and arizona fans. i think that's if though. probably phil simms too,  but i'm pretty sure he was in his new england footy pajamas tonight

 
Turns out the back judge on that corner supported Hillary and he wanted payback on Tommy.

 
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O line much improved, Tom Cable is a genius.  Proise looks really good, Wilson is back; Bam Bam Kam makes all the difference! Great win boys. Go Hawks. :)

 
Patriots are saying the refs switched in balls with too much air on the last two plays that caused Tommy to fumble snap and then over throw the ball on 4th down

 
HawksGal88 said:
O line much improved, Tom Cable is a genius.  Proise looks really good, Wilson is back; Bam Bam Kam makes all the difference! Great win boys. Go Hawks. :)
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Not sure I would call him a genius, but I keep saying he's earned the benefit of the doubt over the past several years. Each year people are lamenting the awful O-line in Seattle and somehow he pieces together respectability by the end of the season. 

 
ffldrew said:
Patriots are saying the refs switched in balls with too much air on the last two plays that caused Tommy to fumble snap and then over throw the ball on 4th down
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this is the worst post I've ever read in here since I've been a member....

 
Hooper31 said:
HawksGal88 said:
O line much improved, Tom Cable is a genius.  Proise looks really good, Wilson is back; Bam Bam Kam makes all the difference! Great win boys. Go Hawks. :)
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Not sure I would call him a genius, but I keep saying he's earned the benefit of the doubt over the past several years. Each year people are lamenting the awful O-line in Seattle and somehow he pieces together respectability by the end of the season. 
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I'm not sure there is a better guy in the business.  Basically this lets the Hawks to spend on D and QB and have Tom fill the gaps to make a serviceable unit at cost.  There is a lot of value in that, as we are seeing now.  If this O-line comes together this team is pretty stout. 

 
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GregR said:
Agreed, no flag was the best call.  If they had thrown a flag it should have been on Gronk.
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I'm wondering if this is a horrible precedent. That was offensive PI in my opinion. think about what we're asking the refs to do in this situation. 

 
For those pointing to Gronk initiating contact, I would suggest reading the rule. That is perfectly legal

pulling a receiver down, however, illegal

 
wilked said:
For those pointing to Gronk initiating contact, I would suggest reading the rule. That is perfectly legal

pulling a receiver down, however, illegal
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"Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass" is prohibited contact while the ball is in the air, and is offensive pass interference. That's the description of what he did, and before he was pulled down. Refs are normally only going to call the first act of interference and that was Gronk. He wasn't close enough to the line for his contact to be legal with the ball in the air.

 
GregR said:
"Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass" is prohibited contact while the ball is in the air, and is offensive pass interference. That's the description of what he did, and before he was pulled down. Refs are normally only going to call the first act of interference and that was Gronk. He wasn't close enough to the line for his contact to be legal with the ball in the air.
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Ball wasnt in the air when the contact was initiated. It was when the defender dragged Gronk down.

 
mbuehner said:
This is definitive, at least the the initial contact was legal:

http://imgur.com/a/mH6CG
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This is people not understanding the rules at all.  The 5 yards (which I'm assuming is what the lines are for) apply only to the defender in terms of making contact.  The offense being able to do that only applies for 1 yard beyond the LOS.  Furthermore, you can't cut off the path of a player by making contact with him unless you're playing the ball.  He wasn't playing the ball (he wasn't looking for it) and certainly initiated the contact.

 
biju said:
This is people not understanding the rules at all.  The 5 yards (which I'm assuming is what the lines are for) apply only to the defender in terms of making contact.  The offense being able to do that only applies for 1 yard beyond the LOS.  Furthermore, you can't cut off the path of a player by making contact with him unless you're playing the ball.  He wasn't playing the ball (he wasn't looking for it) and certainly initiated the contact.
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A receiver has the ability to shed a chuck. If you look at that picture, the defenders hands are on Gronk but Gronks arent making contact yet.  Not cutting off a players path works both ways. This is a totally typical play until the defender grabs and pulls with the ball in the air.

 
mbuehner said:
A receiver has the ability to shed a chuck. If you look at that picture, the defenders hands are on Gronk but Gronks arent making contact yet.  Not cutting off a players path works both ways. This is a totally typical play until the defender grabs and pulls with the ball in the air.
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First, it's extremely hard to tell from a still photo if that was the first point of contact.  Next, the defender has the right to their spot and when Gronk runs directly into Chancellor.  Even if the defender makes initial contact that doesn't allow the receiver to run over the defender if they aren't moving.  That play had a fairly good case for being OPI and no photo is going to show otherwise.

 
proninja said:
I've looked at this video over and over from a couple different angles in slow motion.
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Looks like Gronk lowers his shoulders and explodes into Kam like a lead blocker. I can't see Kam pulling him down at all. 

 
proninja said:
Yeah, I can't understand how anybody could watch that and thinks that Chancellor dragged Gronk down
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Yup. Initially they both happened to extend their arms into each other at the same exact time. Given Gronks forward momentum to Kam standing still Kam falls backwards, but stare at his hands as he's falling. There is literally no grip he had on Gronk at all where anyone but a Pats homer could say he got dragged down.

 
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