Blue-Kun
Footballguy
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/sports/f...amp;oref=slogin
Interesting timing considering the SB is only a few days away.
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Sen. Arlen Specter calling for Goodell to explain himself (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Blue-Kun
- Start date
WisWolvrns
Footballguy
another waste of tax payer dollars... goodness...
munchkin
Footballguy
My first reactionwas that this had to be a spoof report from the Onion.
It's a friggin' game folks. If Spector actually believes Spygate is even remotely equal in importance to national security issues he is off his rocker, or maybe should be put into an asylum for evaluation. I don't wake up at night worried about what teams may be stealing football information. I am just a little more concerned about the integrity of our country. What an embarrassment.
It's a friggin' game folks. If Spector actually believes Spygate is even remotely equal in importance to national security issues he is off his rocker, or maybe should be put into an asylum for evaluation. I don't wake up at night worried about what teams may be stealing football information. I am just a little more concerned about the integrity of our country. What an embarrassment.
Black&Gold
Footballguy
Spector is THE WORST senator in our country. Anyone else want him for their state? I'm a Republican and I'll vote for ANY Democrat over this idiot. At least I know what I'm getting then. He's been in there for so long, we can't get him out now.
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as will a lot of the people who don't get/cant' get the NFL channel piped into there homes.
Knight who says Ni
Footballguy
Specter is a RINO anyways ... what an idiot. Comparing 'Spygate' to the CIA tapes is beyond idiocy. I would laugh if I read this in the Onion; now, not so muchNi
Autumn Wind
Footballguy
What the heck, I'll play devil's advocate. While this is certainly not an issue on par with national security, the fact is that the NFL has enjoyed the benefits of Federal anti-trust protection for years. But that protection means they are subject to Congressional oversight should they step out of line. When you couple that with the economic impact the league has, I don't think it's all that outrageous to make sure the integrity of the game isn't being compromised by Spygate (or any other issue really).
BelichicksRevenge
Footballguy
What next? The senate is going to hold a hearing because of a controversial call in the Super Bowl? The economy is going down the tubes and this guy is worrying about football! The same thing with the congressional hearings on the baseball steroids. These idiots have to start worrying about Iraq and the economy and stop looking for photo ops with athletes.
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BelichicksRevenge
Footballguy
Thats what the commissioner is for. He made a decision. He is judge and jury.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Well, if Congress can get involved with the steroid issue in MLB, something that threatens the integrity of the game, why can't they also get involved in Spygate, something that also threatened the integrity of the game? Goodell can say what he wants, but destroying those tapes that quickly smacked of a cover-up.
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This is "Magic Bullet" Specter, right? The guy who came up with the miraculous bullet theory that one projectile caused all that death and damage to Kennedy and then the Governor... and then showed up pristine and unblemished in the hospital? This guy is talking about the integrity of the game?
Ah, history
You bring up a fair point with the anti-trust exemption. I have what may be a naive question. What really is the significance of the anti-trust exemption? If they lifted that exemption, would it just mean that owners couldn't collude with each other? I ask because it seems like the significance of the anti-trust exemption is overblown. What really would/could happen if Congress revoked that exemption? By the way, I thought only MLB had the exemption.
I have a feeling Goodell’s just going to destroy this hearing. I seriously doubt that Specter understands the rule the Patriots violated and that if they had simply been filming other teams sidelines in the proper area then there wouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't be surprised to see him welcome the opportunity to put this all to rest.
I just can’t imagine what the Patriots could’ve had on the tapes that would’ve been so illegal that they would’ve turned them over to Goodell any way. You’re allowed to video tape another teams sideline, and if they had video taped the locker room or anything else strictly illegal than they would’ve destroyed them instead of giving them over to Goodell.
ETA: Also I've never understood what the big difference would be if Goodell destroys them or keeps them locked away forever. Its not like he was ever going to release them to the public to review. I mean that would kind of take away from the point of taking them away from the Patriots.
I just can’t imagine what the Patriots could’ve had on the tapes that would’ve been so illegal that they would’ve turned them over to Goodell any way. You’re allowed to video tape another teams sideline, and if they had video taped the locker room or anything else strictly illegal than they would’ve destroyed them instead of giving them over to Goodell.
ETA: Also I've never understood what the big difference would be if Goodell destroys them or keeps them locked away forever. Its not like he was ever going to release them to the public to review. I mean that would kind of take away from the point of taking them away from the Patriots.
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PatrickT
Footballguy
Just curious if someone point out "anti-trust laws" or "protecting the integrity of professional sports leagues" in this link.
The Document Formerly Known as the Rules for the United States of America's Federal Government
More commonly known today as "something politicians reference when it's convenient".
The Document Formerly Known as the Rules for the United States of America's Federal Government
More commonly known today as "something politicians reference when it's convenient".
munchkin
Footballguy
They are both BS issues for the government to be involved in. I care much more about health care for all not the health of Roger Clemens or Sean Merriman. If someone wants to stick a needle in there arm that is their choice.Sure the NFL is a big money producer as an entertainment entity but so is the music and film industry. I wouldn't compare the troubles of Brittany Spears or the affect of a Michael Moore documentary to the consequences of the behavior of our Secret Service agencies.Ghost Rider said:
BelichicksRevenge
Footballguy
I know football got a special exemption so that the NFL and AFL could merge. A lot of the thing they do require this exemption. Things like the NFL draft are collusion. In a free market these guys could go to any team they wanted to.The Rook said:
Interesting point regarding the draft. I did a little more digging and found reference to a couple things. In MLB, the Curt Flood case (he paved way for free agency) challenged the exemption and basically made it so that labor portion of MLB is not exempt. In regards to the NFL, I saw another reference to the anti-trust exemption as it applies to collective TV rights for the entire league. And another article referred to ramifications it has on the movement of teams, as well as expansion.
It looks like Specter tried to go this route in 2006 also. It was over the TV broadcasting package at that time. I think they basically ruled that the broadcasting package at the time was in the best interest of the consumer, so there was no case for challenging the exemption.
This time around it sounds like the main focus is on the broadcasting again... mainly the fact that not all consumers get NFL network so can't see some of their home teams games. I can see how the anti-trust can be brought up, especially with NFL owning a network. I think that Patriots tapes being brought into it is mainly for media splash and as a power play.
This time around it sounds like the main focus is on the broadcasting again... mainly the fact that not all consumers get NFL network so can't see some of their home teams games. I can see how the anti-trust can be brought up, especially with NFL owning a network. I think that Patriots tapes being brought into it is mainly for media splash and as a power play.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Specter should be focusing on the rampant corruption within
the Bush administration rather than this nonsense.
the Bush administration rather than this nonsense.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
I would imagine that revenue-sharing and salary caps are also made possible by the anti-trust exemption.
Road Warriors
Footballguy
This mentality astounds me... With Iraq, the economy at risk of recession, health care issues, elections, and all the other business of running the country, you think that the NFL running its own ship in how its rules, not laws of the land, are enforced is a solid use of our government resources. This screams of "time for some perspective" issues. Its a game, not National security.
BelichicksRevenge
Footballguy
Those are more based on labor negotiations with the Union.
Mr. Sparkle
Footballguy
agree 100%
mdog1967
Footballguy
You mean like the rampent corruption of the Clinton administration, or how about the MOB elected JFK, that kind of corruption.Get a clue RON...
bostonfred
Footballguy
I think it's perfectly acceptable for the NFL to refuse to release the tapes to the media, because it potentially disadvantages the teams who were on the tapes. I think it's perfectly acceptable for them to say they destroyed the tapes, because if they didn't, the media would hound them for the tapes the entire season. I think it's acceptable for them to actually delete the tapes, instead of lying about it, but it's not ideal, because these questions will linger. I don't think there is any reason for Congress to get involved.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
It must suck to live in a hole.
mdog1967
Footballguy
LOL... well though I agree with most of you football postings on this we just disagree.
Workhorse
Footballguy
Simple answer: Steroid possession and distribution is against federal law. The MLB issue has less to do with the "integrity of the game" and more to do with a private business whose employees were engaged in illegal activity. Videotaping signals in the NFL has only recently been considered a serious league infraction, according to folks like Jimmy Johnson and it's clearly not illegal activity. To me, the issues in MLB and NFL are completely different. If breaking league rules and threatening the integrity of the NFL was so important to congress, why didn't they take action on the various salary cap violations in the past?The fact is, Arlen Specter's memo to Goodell simply referenced the 2005 Super Bowl and his hometown Eagles and whether there was any evidence to suggest that videotaping occurred in that one game.Ghost Rider said:
((Morpheus))
Footballguy
obvious re-election ploy. the steelers faithful are gonna love this garbage.
Letum
Footballguy
The NFL is an industry with revenues over 6 billion dollars. As fans, we foot a good portion of that bill. The fact that the evidence was destroyed is disturbing. Are there more important issues the Senate should deal with? Of course. Would all of those issues be resolved if we didn't use the resources to investigate this matter? No.
The NFL doesn't have any special antitrust exemption. That's why Freeman McNeil and a number of other players have successfully brought antitrust suits against it. (Most recently, Maurice Clarett was initially successful in suing the NFL; the award favoring him was overturned on appeal, but not because the NFL is automatically exempt from antitrust laws.) It's also why the USFL successfully sued the NFL on antitrust grounds (and won $1, trebled to $3).There's a nonstatutory labor exemption that gives limited protection to any employer that bargains with a union. The NFL enjoys this protection, but so does every other employer. The NFL has no special privileges in that regard.
Baseball does enjoy an antitrust exemption; but not football.
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Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Yeah but the competitors (teams) are colluding to keep down wages. So I'm pretty sure that behavior is frowned upon in most industries.
Workhorse
Footballguy
Football's antitrust exemption allows the league to neogtiate TV deals for every franchise. If that were to go away, it would pretty much destroy the league's wildly successful revenue sharing model and it would pretty much kill teams like the Green Bay Packers and the Indianapolis Colts.
Yeah, that's a GREAT idea Senator.
Yeah, that's a GREAT idea Senator.
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Road Warriors
Footballguy
Agree the other issues aren't resolved if we don't investigate this, but if you have limited resources, do you apply them to the least important of your issues? This is in no way a government issue. I don't care how much money generated in football. How an entity enforces its own rules ( again, no laws or larger "society" issues involved ) is up to the entity, even if a whole bunch of citizens pay money to that entity to enjoy their product.
Keep the government out of issues they don't belong in, and maybe they can spend a few more minutes working on the issues that they have been put in office to work on in the first place.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Really torn about this.
It goes against all of my political ideologies but if there's a chance the Patriots get smacked here, I'm interested.
It goes against all of my political ideologies but if there's a chance the Patriots get smacked here, I'm interested.
Goodell has brought this on himself. IMO all he had to do was after reviewing the tapes awas to say 'IN GENERAL TERMS' what was in them. The level of the penalty he gave the Patriots and the rapid destruction of the tapes makes me wonder if there was something more to this than just taping signals.
In this age we live in, one has to believe there are copies somewhere. They will re-appear somewhere in the future.
BelichicksRevenge
Footballguy
I hear he is an eagles fan.
Workhorse
Footballguy
Here's Goodell's letter back to Specter:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/sports/20080201_NFL1.PDF
In other words, "Dear Senator, we handled it. Go away."
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/sports/20080201_NFL1.PDF
In other words, "Dear Senator, we handled it. Go away."
Tau837
Footballguy
I don't necessarily agree this particular issue warrants Congressional intervention, but don't kid yourself... this is big business and big money presented to the public as a game. The Government gets involved in issues involving big business and big money all the time, and (often) rightfully so.
I really don't see why people feel the need to come with conspiracy theories surrounding these tapes and what may have been on them. Is it so hard to believe that they were of defensive signals just hours and hours of the other teams Def Cord walking around? I still think Goodell did just fine with this, and that even if he'd kept the tapes under lock and key people would still be calling to see what’s on them.
Tau837
Footballguy
So your view is that the Government should not involve themselves in issues in big business (e.g., monopolies, mergers, etc.)?
Yeah. Oh the horrible burden it would be to field some phone calls from pesky media folks! Oh the horor! Man, we can't have our phone lines tied up with that...let's just totally destroy any and all records and evidence. Good call! I'm not saying I agree with this whole thing, but that reason definitely doesn't fly.You don't destroy evidence (permanently) just because it really doesn't show much and you don't want to have to field phone calls about it. You destroy evidence if there's more to it than you ever plan on making public.
"As always, I appreciate your interest in the NFL."
How has Goodell not done what you’re asking for? He's said that what were on the tapes where of defensive signals time and time again. Do you want details what the signals were or what? I say even if he kept them you'd still be saying the same thing you are now. People wouldn't be satisfied unless they got to see them and that would completely defeat the purpose of taking them away. No matter what these conspiracy theories would be floating around. I mean honestly what do you guys possibly think Goodell is hiding?
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Goodell wasn't going to make the tapes public. It would be unfair to the Jets. (Then all 31 other teams would have film of the Jets' signals; not just the Patriots.)Since Goodell wasn't going to make the tapes public, he destroyed them. What would you have done with them?
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