BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
No.Some players earn (are allowed) longer leashes and to give input on decisions, but you don't get to apply ultimatums. Especially if you aren't a big game winning QB.
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Shark Pool Mock Draft 2011 - 4 Rounds (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter chinawildman
- Start date
Blackjacks
Footballguy
For Fitz's sake this pick might make him happy. It means he wont have a rookie under center, it means they are more than likely going after a vetern.
"Yes, Mr. Fitzgeral would you rather have a rookie throwing you the ball again this year or a solid vetern and we can improve our team with a stud defensived player nit he first round?"
I think Larry is hoping they dont draft a QB with their #1.
"Yes, Mr. Fitzgeral would you rather have a rookie throwing you the ball again this year or a solid vetern and we can improve our team with a stud defensived player nit he first round?"
I think Larry is hoping they dont draft a QB with their #1.
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CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
Yes.
But lets take it out of this mock and into another thread: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=588933
But lets take it out of this mock and into another thread: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=588933
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
Possibly, but what if trades/free agency stay deadlocked until this summer? As of now, there is no timetable for this to resume. As far as a lot of the veterans available, some of them are decent players, but how much long term upside do Kolb and Orton have? It's debatable. Fitz is entering the best years of his career. It would make sense for him to have a QB with him that will be a long term solution, someone with 1st round, franchise QB upside.A first round "stud" defensive player generally has the same learning curve as a 1st round offensive player. Whisenhunt knows the immediate impact a first round QB can make. Look at Roethlisberger. Whiz was in Pit when Roethlisberger became the leader of that offense. Why not draft a solid, high upside QB, and fill in the defense with some tested veterans?
Donsmith753
Footballguy
You could also argue that with a strong D a team could get by with a lesser qb. Making guys like Max Hall and Derek Anderson have to come from behind is not good, allowing them to manage games on the back of a strong D isn't quite so bad.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
They're going to get a veteran QB. Gabbert is this year's version of Brady Quinn/Jimmy Clausen. And would these be the same Kiper and McShay that everyone blasts for having mocks that are way off year after year?
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
I suppose it's based on how much up side you perceive Gabbert to have. Will Orton/Kolb/etc be better than Gabbert immediately? Possibly. But if the Cards draft him, it's because they feel in 2-3 years, Gabbert will be a superior product.I could point you to the latest PFW mock if that'd make you feel more comfortable. Gabbert. 5. AZ.http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/25/2011-mock-draft-30
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
No. It' doesn't. The Cards could very well take Gabbert. It's just not a slam dunk.I don't think there's enough of a difference between Gabbert and some of the 2nd Tier QBs like Dalton/Kaepernick/Ponder for the Cardinals to reach at #5 and miss out on a more clearly elite talent - especially since it's another big area of need.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
Simple answer is Gabbert is no Rothlisberger. Long answer not every rookie QB that comes into the league is going to develop as fast as Rothlisberger did. It may take Gabbert 2 or 3 years to become a decent QB. Do you think Fitzgerald is going to want to wait that long? I can gaurentee you that Fitz would much rather prefer a veteran then a rookie at this point because he wants to win now.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Cleveland is on the clock.
Round 1
1.Carolina Panthers (Donsmith753) - A.J. Green (WR, Georgia)
2.Denver Broncos (BusMan) - Marcell Dareus (DT, Alabama)
3.Buffalo Bills (Mr. Peterson) - Cam Newton (QB, Auburn)
4.Cincinnati Bengals (comet909) - Patrick Peterson (CB, LSU)
5.Arizona Cardinals (Andy Dufresne) - Von Miller (LB, Texas A&M)
6.Cleveland Browns (gandalas)
7.San Francisco 49ers (chinawildman)
8.Tennessee Titans (shader)
9.Dallas Cowboys (asn4play)
10.Washington Redskins (matttyl)
11.Houston Texans (Yellow Line is Unoffcial)
12.Minnesota Vikings (Andy Dufresne)
============================================
A lil unsolicited advice for what I would like to see happen with the Browns pick.
1. Trade down no further than the Vikings for their second round pick but they lack a third rounder since they traded for Randy Moss last year so I doubt that would happen or that any team selecting ahead of the 12th pick would make a move up so onto the second choice.
2. I see four or possibly five guys who would fit, Fairley, Bowers, Quinn, Jones, and Prince. If Da'Quan's knee was 100% he probably wouldn't even be available at the sixth slot but his knee is a concern. Fairley's motor is a concern. Quinn is a pass rusher but he seems weak against the run. Jones is a reach here IMHO and Prince doesn't address the biggest needs. Fairley is healthy and he's nasty so my second choice is to go with Fairley.
3. Bite the bullet and hope that Da'Quan Bowers' knee is healthy or just IR him for a year if he needs it if the doctors feel he would be 100% next year with rest.
Just my humble and unsolicited opinion of what I'd do with the pick.
Round 1
1.Carolina Panthers (Donsmith753) - A.J. Green (WR, Georgia)
2.Denver Broncos (BusMan) - Marcell Dareus (DT, Alabama)
3.Buffalo Bills (Mr. Peterson) - Cam Newton (QB, Auburn)
4.Cincinnati Bengals (comet909) - Patrick Peterson (CB, LSU)
5.Arizona Cardinals (Andy Dufresne) - Von Miller (LB, Texas A&M)
6.Cleveland Browns (gandalas)
7.San Francisco 49ers (chinawildman)
8.Tennessee Titans (shader)
9.Dallas Cowboys (asn4play)
10.Washington Redskins (matttyl)
11.Houston Texans (Yellow Line is Unoffcial)
12.Minnesota Vikings (Andy Dufresne)
============================================
A lil unsolicited advice for what I would like to see happen with the Browns pick.
1. Trade down no further than the Vikings for their second round pick but they lack a third rounder since they traded for Randy Moss last year so I doubt that would happen or that any team selecting ahead of the 12th pick would make a move up so onto the second choice.
2. I see four or possibly five guys who would fit, Fairley, Bowers, Quinn, Jones, and Prince. If Da'Quan's knee was 100% he probably wouldn't even be available at the sixth slot but his knee is a concern. Fairley's motor is a concern. Quinn is a pass rusher but he seems weak against the run. Jones is a reach here IMHO and Prince doesn't address the biggest needs. Fairley is healthy and he's nasty so my second choice is to go with Fairley.
3. Bite the bullet and hope that Da'Quan Bowers' knee is healthy or just IR him for a year if he needs it if the doctors feel he would be 100% next year with rest.
Just my humble and unsolicited opinion of what I'd do with the pick.
daveR
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Switching to the 4-3, I would think the pick would be Quinn.
A dark horse could be Tyron Smith.
A dark horse could be Tyron Smith.
Agreed, I think as we get closer to the draft, he's going to get a lot of talk as a potential top-5 pick.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
How long are we gonna give gandalas?
I agree, I think Quinn would be a great pick
I agree, I think Quinn would be a great pick
No Way Jose
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Heck I didn't even see that offer.I would take that offer if it were in my power to close the deal.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Holmgren would do that in a skinny instant too.Heck I didn't even see that offer.I would take that offer if it were in my power to close the deal.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The Browns are switching to a 4-3 from a 3-4 so they have a bunch of big/slow and unfortunately old/constantly injured 3-4 D-Linemen. The only younger guy who is in his prime and who fits one of the inside DT positions on the 3-4 perfectly is Ahtyba Rubin. He's a big-boy pushing the scales over 330 and he's strong and stout as he played NT in a 3-4 so he fills the bill as the nose guard 'stay home-run stuffing' DT. The Browns can move one of their 3-4 DEs inside to play next to him but they are over 30 years old and were constantly injured and none of them fill the role as a penetrating 4-3 three tech DT. Its tough to find those guys so Fairley is a logical choise if he's available.I love Quinn's pass rush but check the film and he gets most of his traps as an edge pass rusher. I'm not knocking that because it is very tough to find legit edge pass rushers in the league but I did not see much bull rushing from him or spins and I unfortunately saw him taking plays off and just looking weak against the run. Also he had a year off due to suspension, his sole job was to prepare for the Combine and he did not have a great combine. He performed below his own expectations so that alone raises concerns for me on an entirely different set of things that I wouldn't want to be concerned about with a top six pick. Love Quinn's edge rush but I'm leary of taking him especially if Fairley's there and I have concerns about Fairley so that is saying something about Quinn.Ty Smith may raise up boards but not enough to where the Browns would seriously consider taking him unless they are boxed in and sour on the other prospects. Why?Left offensive tackle: Joe Thomas, third pick in the draft collecting top-three salary.Left offensive guard: Eric Stienbeck, high priced free agent collecting big paycheck.Center: First round draft pick Alex Mack, might be the highest paid center in the league or wil soon be when he starts hitting the meat of his contract.Right offensive tackle: Tony Pashos, the Browns needed a right tackle last year and overpaid for Pashos who got injured but he still has a solid year left on his contract that the Browns can't get out of.The Browns have a dire need on the D-line and they feel Pashos is healthy and they can get-by with him and develop a young guy behind him. This draft is deep with RT prospects and a couple should be there in the second round and one ot two should drop to the third/fourth rounds.I don't see Cleveland taking any first round O-linemen or even in the second round due to the inordinate amount of cap already invested in the O-line. They just cut Big Baby and have a sixth round pick as their only legit starting D-lineman. I think that says it all on how to prioritize the Browns' top pick.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Let's just do that Titans/Browns trade to see what happens. Buys Gandalas some time to show up too.
shader
Footballguy
Titans are desperate for a QB and can't afford to wait around and hope that a good one falls in their lap in round 2. If one of the top 2 make it past Arizona, the Titans have to call Holmgren and move up.Heck I didn't even see that offer.I would take that offer if it were in my power to close the deal.
shader
Footballguy
Official?I'm headed to lunch for an hour or so. If you guys decide on that, here is my pick:Blaine Gabbert-- Titans move up to get one of the best QB's in the draft. With only Rusty Smith signed, the Titans couldn't afford to see what San Fran decided to do with their pick and had to ensure that they get a top QB. It's a no mans land from pick 8 to 40 and just not worth it to "hope" that a good rookie falls to them there.Gabbert gives the Titans their second "franchise" QB in 6 years. Hopefully he can be the answer for this floundering organization.If it's not official, then I'll pick later on.
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Blackjacks
Footballguy
I say its official and lets get thsi thing going
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If Gandalas doesn't agree then Browns fans everywhere would leave him and take the canolies so if he catches up to see what transpired I'm sure he'll be fine with the trade.I couldn't agree more with the Titans logic of leapfrogging San Francisco because they would have been all over Gabbert.Getting a franchise QB and only giving up a third rounder is dirt cheap if you believe he's your guy.I'm not sure who the judge is on trades but I think this offer is a win-win and that Gandalas would be in favor of pulling the trigger.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
Chinawildwoman is that cool?
SF on the clock?
SF on the clock?
No Way Jose
Footballguy
I think if the Titans get out of the first round with Gabbert, it would be a success. I wouldn't want to see them do this for Newton, but I think Gabbert would be a little more solid of a pick. It's not really in their makeup to move up, but it makes sense in this instance. For a Franchise that just hit the restart button, a top QB is a great addition. If this trade doesn't go down irl, then I would expect Fairly with the DL coach connection.
No Way Jose
Footballguy
Oh yea, and let's make sure that we PM the next guy after you pick. I know that I am not always on here, but can be if notified.
gandalas
Footballguy
If we are allowed to do trades, then the Browns would do this in a heartbeat.Moving down 2 picks to pick up the 8th pick of the 3rd round? Yes.Sorry for the delay - I was in meetings all this morning - I just got the PM from Andy Dufresne that he sent at 11:20 AM.So 1.06 is The titans with Blaine Gabbert, and I am on Deck with pick 1.08.
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chinawildman
Footballguy
I'm actually about to head to a pretty important client meeting so it'll have to wait until I get back (Probabaly around 3 hours). If gandalas hasn't made his pick by then, then SF will make their choice.
chinawildman
Footballguy
Uh, yea no problem Blackjackass
, didn't read the entire thread. Let the trade go through, however I still have to go to a meeting and can't make my pick for a few hours.Blackjacks
Footballguy
gandalas has okayed the trade.SF you are on the clock
Blackjacks
Footballguy
Didnt realize you were SF.Close the sale than get back to usBlackjackass?
daveR
Footballguy
again
.It could be Fairly, or Bowers, or Quinn. I'd probably go with Bowers. They sound like they're OK with Pashos. Probably OK with their CBs, too. WR needs help, but there seems to be lots of 'em. No QB, no RB, no LB, no S, no C (are there any???). Comes down to DL and WR.CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
What I KNOW is that Fitz has to sign a contract at the end of this coming season. As I've stipulated before, part of his methodology will be how the team is performing and who is throwing him the ball. Everyone wants to win now. Outside looking in, just adding one of the slightly above average veterans available on the market, this is an 8-8 or 9-7 team at best. (kolb, orton) If Gabbert's franchise pedigree develops, his upside is greater than that of Orton or Kolb. If Andy is right, then you have Jimmy Clausen west.Either way I can't see how anyone realistic about anything believes adding a rookie, OR kolb/orton is going to make this a 10+ win team or better.
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
gandalas, you can "watch thread" and it should send you a notification every time someone posts in it. I believe you can see the button at the top of the thread.
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
I'll take this, as it's as close as I expect to get. I just really wanted to make a case for Gabbert, and show that Von Miller wasn't a no brainer.
daveR
Footballguy
Good chance that #1 would be used as trade bait anyway -- at least if Kolb is their guy.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I can tell you right now that the Vikings are looking to trade back in the 1st round.
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CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
Jacksonville offers 1.16 and 2.17 to Minnesota in exchange for Minnesota's 1.12 and 2.11.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
So I get to move back four spots in the first and six spots in the second for...nothing? I'm intrigued... :rubschin:
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
Well if the vikes want to move back because they feel there's more value towards the middle/back of the first round, then it'll cost a bit of position in the 2nd.
You just stated that the vikes want to move back, and if you want something you have to give something in return. Perfectly fair and logical.
You just stated that the vikes want to move back, and if you want something you have to give something in return. Perfectly fair and logical.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
You're doing it wrong.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
I'm going to try this one out in my dynasty league
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
Making trade offers to a team shopping their pick? A lot more teams are trying to get out of the top half of this first round then into it. That's just a fact. And I'm just playing a market. If you love your first round position, then keep it. You want to move down, and I'll let you, but its going to cost you a few slots in the 2nd.
So maybe you're doing it wrong.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Want to make it a poll?
matttyl
Footballguy
Seriously, this is just stupid. They aren't going to move down in the first AND down in the second. It's called "give and take", not "take and take".
