Shockey to Saints (1 Viewer)

[Jason Wood]

Shockey finally has a BETTER FANTASY qb. I see big things for Shockey in 2008.

You have got to be kidding me, Brees is a better QB in EVERY aspect, not just fantasy

First 3 years as a starterone has

10342 yards passing with 71 TDs and 55 INTs

and the other has

8551 yards passing with 55 TDs and 38 INTs

Care to take a guess which is which? Oh yeah and one has a super bowl ring.

While thats great and all, it has nothing to do with what you said. You insinuated Eli was the better QB NOW. You didnt say, well Eli was a better QB in his first 3 years compared to Drew Brees' first three years. Just because a QB has a better first year or three years than another QB doesnt mean they will be a better player than that other QB. You can drop me a line when Eli manages to break 4000 or throws 2 times as many TD's as he does picks, or when he FINALLY manages to get a 60% completion ratio or higher, which Brees has done 5 out of his 7 years.

4000 yards has quite a bit to do with the team...for instance the Saints threw the ball 108 more times than the Giants did last year. But I will agree with you on the other 2. This year we will see. Sure looked to me like Eli was finally figuring it out to me just like Brees did in the middle of the 2004 season.

You do realize that Manning ranks 4th among NFL QBs with 1608 pass attempts over the last three seasons, don't you?

YOU DO REALIZE BREES RANKS ABOVE HIM IN THAT CATEGORY...RIGHT?4000 yards has very little to do with how good an NFL quaterback is was my point...Eli would have had to average 7.5+ Y/A last year to throw for 4000 yards while Brees could have done so in 6.1 Y/A.

All those numbers mean nothing. All my point is that we know exactly what Brees can do, we are just now finding out what Eli can do and I'm not so sure Brees will be the better NFL quaterback this year. I'm talking about winning games not slinging the ball around.

This is a fantasy football forum, first and foremost. But aside from that, whether Manning wins more games than Brees this year has a lot more to do with the fact the Giants had a top-10 defense while the Saints were in the bottom quartile.

 

[horadadude]

Shockey finally has a BETTER FANTASY qb. I see big things for Shockey in 2008.

You have got to be kidding me, Brees is a better QB in EVERY aspect, not just fantasy

Every aspect - hmmmm - How many rings does Brees have? How many SB MVPs does he have. With all of the talent around him last year - why was he throwing to the guys in the other shirts? And as we all recall Brees had a pretty difficult first couple of years like Eli did..before the light went on for him. Give me a freaking break on the hate for Eli - he won the SuperBowl with 2 4 quarter TDs -

 

[Englishteacher]

Move Buck Ortega down your cheatsheets.

Move dumba## "he's better because he has a SB ring" statements down another notch too. If possible.I think Shockey's # may go down a bit because of Bush, not up because of Brees.

This is an interesting assertion. I think the HUGE winner here is Drew Brees. The Saints already had one of the most prolific passing O's in the league, then they get Shockey. All I got to say is WOW. I was initially enamored with Shockey's potential when the NO's rumors first started as he was already a big time TE but he was moving from a ball control offense (Eli had 3400 yards passing,) to a big time passing offense (Brees had over 4,000). I thought Shockey's #'s could take a huge jump. But, how much will Reggie and Shockey counteract each other. Overall, there is more potential in the offense as a whole as the offense just got better. I like Colston to maintain pretty high levels of production as he is still the unquestioned leader of the wideout corps and there's really no one else close to him. So, what you've said about Shockey and Bush coexisting has given me another thing to think about when analyzing the "new" Saints. Thanks.One additional thing to note: The Saints really struggled to run the ball last year. Early on when they had their losing streak the line wasn't blocking well and I think Deuce had a pre ACL slump. He really lacked burst and I think the knee was gearing down for a breakdown. He didn't play nearly as well as he did in '06. The addition of Shockey, as many have noted, should help improve the run game. However, I don't know how many people remember how terrible the Saints were at the start of the '07 season. There were 2 or 3 major areas problem areas with the offense and they really fed on each other to make the Saints brutal to watch. One of problem areas was the run game; anemic. The overall numbers for Brees and the gang weren't too bad for the season but they certainly stumbled out of the gate. I couldn't believe that the team that dominated offensively in 06' was the same one I was watching in '07. They were REALLY bad there for awhile.

 

[womb]

The guy I would downgrade in this deal is Brandon Jacobs. That is the one sure thing I would do. If anyone out here believes Shockey is not a good blocker, I would say stop and watch some games or youtube or something.

I would also downgrade Eli, as not only does he lose a primary target, he also loses good protection.

Brees an upgrade, but to what?? If it works the way some picture, probably to in between Peyton and Tom. I think not, that's just me. But he is good to start with anyway.

Colston & Bush about the same, since Shockey will bith help with keeping defenses honest, and hurt by taking away receptions.

Second tier WRs on Saints roster will need to wait... so a downgrade.

Big, tall receivers will get a chance at Giants... so perhaps an upgrade to say Manningham in future.

As for the pure running game of the Saints, I guess Deuce will get a help, but Saints do not run a conventional system for my liking, so I am not so sure about this. Yet it can not be bad.

Last, Shockey... this is a pure gut feeling: the dude will be a top 3 TE this year (if he can stay healthy) - along with Gates and Winslow. No proof & nothing to base it on.

 

[TheWick]

Shockey finally has a BETTER FANTASY qb. I see big things for Shockey in 2008.

You have got to be kidding me, Brees is a better QB in EVERY aspect, not just fantasy

First 3 years as a starterone has

10342 yards passing with 71 TDs and 55 INTs

and the other has

8551 yards passing with 55 TDs and 38 INTs

Care to take a guess which is which? Oh yeah and one has a super bowl ring.

While thats great and all, it has nothing to do with what you said. You insinuated Eli was the better QB NOW. You didnt say, well Eli was a better QB in his first 3 years compared to Drew Brees' first three years. Just because a QB has a better first year or three years than another QB doesnt mean they will be a better player than that other QB. You can drop me a line when Eli manages to break 4000 or throws 2 times as many TD's as he does picks, or when he FINALLY manages to get a 60% completion ratio or higher, which Brees has done 5 out of his 7 years.

4000 yards has quite a bit to do with the team...for instance the Saints threw the ball 108 more times than the Giants did last year. But I will agree with you on the other 2. This year we will see. Sure looked to me like Eli was finally figuring it out to me just like Brees did in the middle of the 2004 season.

You do realize that Manning ranks 4th among NFL QBs with 1608 pass attempts over the last three seasons, don't you?

YOU DO REALIZE BREES RANKS ABOVE HIM IN THAT CATEGORY...RIGHT?4000 yards has very little to do with how good an NFL quaterback is was my point...Eli would have had to average 7.5+ Y/A last year to throw for 4000 yards while Brees could have done so in 6.1 Y/A.

All those numbers mean nothing. All my point is that we know exactly what Brees can do, we are just now finding out what Eli can do and I'm not so sure Brees will be the better NFL quaterback this year. I'm talking about winning games not slinging the ball around.

This is a fantasy football forum, first and foremost. But aside from that, whether Manning wins more games than Brees this year has a lot more to do with the fact the Giants had a top-10 defense while the Saints were in the bottom quartile.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I would slow down on the Boss love. The guy has accomplished almost nothing in the NFL. That doesn't mean he can't eventually become a productive player, but he has gotten a lot more hype than he should. He has 14 catches in his NFL career.

The point is well taken. HOWEVER, a lot of GREAT TEs did virtually nothing in their rookies years. TE is a hard position to learn.Winslow (the HOF one) 25 catchesGonzo 33 catchesHeap 16 catchesWitten 35 catchesGates 24 catchesSharpe 7, then 22That doesn't mean he's going to be like these guys (he isn't), but the fact that he didn't light it up in his rookie year (playing behind a pro-bowl caliber player for most of it) really doesn't mean anything at all.

 

[Yenrub]

As we hear it, the Saints won’t be giving Shockey a new contract. As we also hear it, Shockey’s desire to get out of New York arose primarily from his desire to get a new deal.Shockey is signed through 2011. He’s due to earn a base salary of $1.925 million in 2008. The pay jumps to $3.025 million in 2009, $3.825 million in 2010, and $4.508 million in 2011.
From PFT

 

[Englishteacher]

Personality and attitude matter, but the fact the Giants just lost 20% of their passing offense and replaced it with an unproven baseline TE, yet almost no one is at least discussing downgrading Manning and the overall passing game stuns me.

From a fantasy perspective, I agree that the Giants passing offense will take a hit. However I don't beleive it will be significant. Having watched almost every Giants game since Shockey was drafted, I can tell you that at times Manning would try and force him the ball like he was the only guy on the field. Like TO, Shockey is a guy who cries when he doesn't get the ball. ....

This is what concerns me about Shockey. It "seems", and this is only from a vague outside perspective, that Shockey is a very skilled player that "demands" the ball. The success of the Saints' offense over the last two years is that Brees would throw to whoever was open. Colston doesn't 'demand" the ball, he just gets open and Brees gets him the ball. When teams sell out and stop Colston, Brees gets the ball to other receivers. My impression of Shockey(ala TO, Randy Moss & others) is that he causes trouble when he doesn't get his catches. I don't know if this is true, but it is my impression and my concern.

I think Shockey going to the Saints is going to help some with this problem. He's going from a ball control offense to a wide open passing attack. 3400 yards passing to over 4,000. Over 100 more passing attempts. How do you make a guy that whines about not getting the ball (somewhat) happier (at least for awhile)? Put him on an offense that throws more passes. In one of my larger keeper leagues, I've owned Shockey for most of his career. Needless to say, I've watched him a lot. I do think he is a jackass in some respects. Why? The point another poster made... He gets "open" on one play and waves his arms like crazy, complaining he doesn't get the ball. Then he gets a pass and he DROPS it. Just shut up already.

I always held onto Shockey thinking he was one of the elite TE's in the league. And, he is. But, he's never gonna be super elite like I thought he might be because he's NEVER exhibited the consistency catching the football. It took me years to learn this lesson.

Being a big VBD fan, I realize how valuable an elite season from a TE can be. I've spent years of FF, most with Shockey, hoping for that Antonio Gates' 13 TD season from my guy. Even now with the Saints, I just don't think Shockey can do it numbers wise, even with a perfect scenario (a top passing offense). I'm even more positive of this from an NFL perspective than I am from a fantasy one. He's still one of the best receiving options you can get in a TE, let's face it, there aren't many good receiving TE's in the league. But, for all the pro's, he still has too many holes in his game to be one of the very, very best.

 

[Koya]

Shockey is way better than he's getting credit for here

That said, his best attributes were not in the passing game. For all the great plays and running over guys he dropped a tremendous amount of balls, often clear first downs.However, he is terribly underated as far as blocking, where is excelled.Either way, Im glad he is gone. The team may be a little less talented, but they are not worse off in the long run. Quite the contrary.

 

[Saints-Man]

This is what concerns me about Shockey. It "seems", and this is only from a vague outside perspective, that Shockey is a very skilled player that "demands" the ball. The success of the Saints' offense over the last two years is that Brees would throw to whoever was open. Colston doesn't 'demand" the ball, he just gets open and Brees gets him the ball. When teams sell out and stop Colston, Brees gets the ball to other receivers. My impression of Shockey(ala TO, Randy Moss & others) is that he causes trouble when he doesn't get his catches. I don't know if this is true, but it is my impression and my concern.

there's a point where (IMO) it's OK to gripe about staying in to block so much. Granted it should be behind closed doors and not out in the open. Coughlin won a Supe. He made the right call when Shockey was healthy. However, I'd figure alot of TEs would wish they'd be more involved in that situation.Shockey can fire up a team like few others and he's terrific when he's all wound up. Brees probably will force the ball to him then but, that won't matter much, he's that good then. It's when he's calm that he doesn't appear to be such a special TE that Shockey can be disruptive to the O. Payton knows this though. Brees will quickly figure it out and they've got plenty of other weapons.Shockey is alot of fun to watch. You're gonna love watching him Saints-man.

Thanks bri(and others). As an organization, I think the Saints are headed in the right direction(last year was a step back, but they still fought hard) so I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I hope you are right, bri.

 

[Saints-Man]

Move Buck Ortega down your cheatsheets.

Move dumba## "he's better because he has a SB ring" statements down another notch too. If possible.I think Shockey's # may go down a bit because of Bush, not up because of Brees.

This is an interesting assertion. I think the HUGE winner here is Drew Brees. The Saints already had one of the most prolific passing O's in the league, then they get Shockey. All I got to say is WOW. I was initially enamored with Shockey's potential when the NO's rumors first started as he was already a big time TE but he was moving from a ball control offense (Eli had 3400 yards passing,) to a big time passing offense (Brees had over 4,000). I thought Shockey's #'s could take a huge jump. But, how much will Reggie and Shockey counteract each other. Overall, there is more potential in the offense as a whole as the offense just got better. I like Colston to maintain pretty high levels of production as he is still the unquestioned leader of the wideout corps and there's really no one else close to him. So, what you've said about Shockey and Bush coexisting has given me another thing to think about when analyzing the "new" Saints. Thanks.One additional thing to note: The Saints really struggled to run the ball last year. Early on when they had their losing streak the line wasn't blocking well and I think Deuce had a pre ACL slump. He really lacked burst and I think the knee was gearing down for a breakdown. He didn't play nearly as well as he did in '06. The addition of Shockey, as many have noted, should help improve the run game. However, I don't know how many people remember how terrible the Saints were at the start of the '07 season. There were 2 or 3 major areas problem areas with the offense and they really fed on each other to make the Saints brutal to watch. One of problem areas was the run game; anemic. The overall numbers for Brees and the gang weren't too bad for the season but they certainly stumbled out of the gate. I couldn't believe that the team that dominated offensively in 06' was the same one I was watching in '07. They were REALLY bad there for awhile.

I think your analysis is accurate. Most of their offensive troubles can be attributed to the Oline, whose problems were not addressed sufficiently, IMO. The tackles were good, but the G/C/G struggled. The pass rush from the opponents came straight up the gut and were in Brees' face quickly and he made some bad, quick decisions as a result. The OL improved as the season went along, but it is still not solid.

I love my Saints and will root for them all the way, but I think the play of the OL will dictate much of their season.

 

[snowmonkey501]

got boss in rd 31 of my initial dynasty draft.

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

as a Saints fan, I like this trade because it is another indication that instead of being complacent, the organization is being proactive in trying to put the pieces together. they have made a lot of moves over the last couple months (Vilma, Gay, Morgan, Ellis, McCray, Shockey), and even though they didn't all work out, I like that they are being aggressive.

also, people are giving the rest of the Saints WR's a downgrade. but with Colston, Shockey, and Bush all getting attention, maybe it will actually give the other WR's some room to work. the #2 WR spot (can Meachem win it?) might actually have some decent production.

 

[tick dog]

Good succinct summary here, I think.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07...fantasy-impact/

 

[culdeus]

The guy I would downgrade in this deal is Brandon Jacobs. That is the one sure thing I would do. If anyone out here believes Shockey is not a good blocker, I would say stop and watch some games or youtube or something.

Some of Jacobs' best games were running behind Boss. May not be as big a factor as you think.

 

[ajopiela]

definetly helps EVERYONE on the Saints.....

 

[Avery]

Nice writeup on the front page of Big Blue Interactive on the trade, some behind the scenes stuff, and comments from the Giants organization and players.

One item of note. It was much speculated what the Giants asked for vs. what the Saints actually offered around the draft. FWIW, an "unnamed official" within the Giants organization confirmed that the Saints did offer a 2nd and a 5th.

Also, it was reported by someone, and reiterated on this board, that Shockey could not pass a physical. So much so that a blogger here suggested that the Giants would PUP or IR him. The trade is still pending a physical...

Edit to add: My opinion as a Giants fan, is a motivated Shockey would no doubt help the Giants. Despite reports by many in the media, the Giants are not better without him. Having said that, he just couldn't seem to get over feeling snubbed and it seemed that the relationship between the Giants and Shockey was irreconcilable. The choice was not between the firey Shockey all Giants love and trading him. The choice was someone who was going to be a #####y malcontent and trading that player. Given those options, the Giants made the right decision and got good value especially considering that Shockey was doing everything he could to lower his trade value. I really think everybody wins here.

 

[Andy Herron]

Obviously Boss gets a nice bump in the rankings, but I want to know, is Shockey 100% recovered from the broken bone in his leg.

I posted something in reference to this about a month ago here: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=Jeremy+Shockey

To summarize, it was a report that the Giants may have been stuck with him due to questions as to whether he could pass a physical.

(The trade yesterday did specify it was pending him passing a physical)

Teams, however, can take a great deal of latitude as to how they want to deem the measurables. Unless it's far worse than assumed, I don't see the Saints declining the move.

As I said in that thread, I just couldn't see the Giants moving forward this season with Shockey still on board. It looked, smelt and sounded like a whole nother T.O./Eagles episode. Irreconcilable differences to say the least. They had to do something to move him off the roster. The Saints apparently had that standing offer from the draft, and the Giants finally bent.

Good deal for both sides though IMO.

 

[Andy Herron]

Wow.

Pure coincidence Avery.

I didn't see your post til I posted mine!

You're referencing the very thread I included in my post. That's scary.

ETA: I was replying to post #12.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Shockey: Big upgrade.Manning: Big downgrade, assuming you had him anywhere near where his ADP was.

 

[Avery]

Obviously Boss gets a nice bump in the rankings, but I want to know, is Shockey 100% recovered from the broken bone in his leg.

I posted something in reference to this about a month ago here: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=Jeremy+Shockey

To summarize, it was a report that the Giants may have been stuck with him due to questions as to whether he could pass a physical.

(The trade yesterday did specify it was pending him passing a physical)

Teams, however, can take a great deal of latitude as to how they want to deem the measurables. Unless it's far worse than assumed, I don't see the Saints declining the move.

As I said in that thread, I just couldn't see the Giants moving forward this season with Shockey still on board. It looked, smelt and sounded like a whole nother T.O./Eagles episode. Irreconcilable differences to say the least. They had to do something to move him off the roster. The Saints apparently had that standing offer from the draft, and the Giants finally bent.

Good deal for both sides though IMO.

According to the quotes I linked above, the Giants were trying to work a three way trade involving Jason Taylor . Once the Redskins decided to overpay for Taylor as they tend to do in FA, and it was clear that Shockey wouldn't settle down and "get over it" they pulled the trigger on the Saints offer.

 

[Andy Herron]

Obviously Boss gets a nice bump in the rankings, but I want to know, is Shockey 100% recovered from the broken bone in his leg.

I posted something in reference to this about a month ago here: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=Jeremy+Shockey

To summarize, it was a report that the Giants may have been stuck with him due to questions as to whether he could pass a physical.

(The trade yesterday did specify it was pending him passing a physical)

Teams, however, can take a great deal of latitude as to how they want to deem the measurables. Unless it's far worse than assumed, I don't see the Saints declining the move.

As I said in that thread, I just couldn't see the Giants moving forward this season with Shockey still on board. It looked, smelt and sounded like a whole nother T.O./Eagles episode. Irreconcilable differences to say the least. They had to do something to move him off the roster. The Saints apparently had that standing offer from the draft, and the Giants finally bent.

Good deal for both sides though IMO.

According to the quotes I linked above, the Giants were trying to work a three way trade involving Jason Taylor . Once the Redskins decided to overpay for Taylor as they tend to do in FA, and it was clear that Shockey wouldn't settle down and "get over it" they pulled the trigger on the Saints offer.

I agree. That was the 3-way trade rumor that Peter King reported the other day.

 

[Avery]

According to the quotes I linked above, the Giants were trying to work a three way trade involving Jason Taylor . Once the Redskins decided to overpay for Taylor as they tend to do in FA, and it was clear that Shockey wouldn't settle down and "get over it" they pulled the trigger on the Saints offer.

I agree. That was the 3-way trade rumor that Peter King reported the other day.

Maybe this belongs in a Jason Taylor thread but according to the Bergen Record:

But that fell through when Miami refused the Giants request to speak with Taylor prior to the deal being completed.

Seems odd that the deal would be worked on by all sides and then Miami wouldn't allow the Giants to speak to Taylor.Strange...

 

[Avery]

The guy I would downgrade in this deal is Brandon Jacobs. That is the one sure thing I would do. If anyone out here believes Shockey is not a good blocker, I would say stop and watch some games or youtube or something.

Some of Jacobs' best games were running behind Boss. May not be as big a factor as you think.

Apparently. Boss has added a good amount of bulk in the off-season to help his blocking and hasn't lost any speed.Also, Mike Garafolo of the Star-Leger points out, Let's not forget about Darcy Johnson.

 

[Construction Man Jim]

The guy I would downgrade in this deal is Brandon Jacobs. That is the one sure thing I would do. If anyone out here believes Shockey is not a good blocker, I would say stop and watch some games or youtube or something.

Some of Jacobs' best games were running behind Boss. May not be as big a factor as you think.

Apparently. Boss has added a good amount of bulk in the off-season to help his blocking and hasn't lost any speed.Also, Mike Garafolo of the Star-Leger points out, Let's not forget about Darcy Johnson.

Boss is right around the same weight he was at the end of last season.

 

[Koya]

According to the quotes I linked above, the Giants were trying to work a three way trade involving Jason Taylor . Once the Redskins decided to overpay for Taylor as they tend to do in FA, and it was clear that Shockey wouldn't settle down and "get over it" they pulled the trigger on the Saints offer.

I agree. That was the 3-way trade rumor that Peter King reported the other day.

Maybe this belongs in a Jason Taylor thread but according to the Bergen Record:

But that fell through when Miami refused the Giants request to speak with Taylor prior to the deal being completed.

Seems odd that the deal would be worked on by all sides and then Miami wouldn't allow the Giants to speak to Taylor.Strange...

Parcells.Guy is so overated at this point. Holds grudges and all like he is still the king of football. Someone should remind him that he hasnt won #### (although he had some good seasons. And a bunch of meh ones) since his days with the Giants.

 

[Avery]

The guy I would downgrade in this deal is Brandon Jacobs. That is the one sure thing I would do. If anyone out here believes Shockey is not a good blocker, I would say stop and watch some games or youtube or something.

Some of Jacobs' best games were running behind Boss. May not be as big a factor as you think.

Apparently. Boss has added a good amount of bulk in the off-season to help his blocking and hasn't lost any speed.Also, Mike Garafolo of the Star-Leger points out, Let's not forget about Darcy Johnson.

Boss is right around the same weight he was at the end of last season.

Pierce on Boss:

“I think Boss is capable of (being Shockey’s replacement). We’ve only really seen four, five games of him last year really playing, starting at the end of the season. He gained a lot of weight this off-season, a lot of muscle. The guy looks strong..."

 

[Avery]

According to the quotes I linked above, the Giants were trying to work a three way trade involving Jason Taylor . Once the Redskins decided to overpay for Taylor as they tend to do in FA, and it was clear that Shockey wouldn't settle down and "get over it" they pulled the trigger on the Saints offer.

I agree. That was the 3-way trade rumor that Peter King reported the other day.

Maybe this belongs in a Jason Taylor thread but according to the Bergen Record:

But that fell through when Miami refused the Giants request to speak with Taylor prior to the deal being completed.

Seems odd that the deal would be worked on by all sides and then Miami wouldn't allow the Giants to speak to Taylor.Strange...

Parcells.Guy is so overated at this point. Holds grudges and all like he is still the king of football. Someone should remind him that he hasnt won #### (although he had some good seasons. And a bunch of meh ones) since his days with the Giants.

maybe Shockey calling Parcells a "fat homo" a couple of years ago is still sticking in his craw.

 

[Avery]

Interesting ramifications to the deal:

Shockey could bring a first-rounder in 2010

Did the Saints use one of the Jets’ picks in the 2009 draft to acquire Jeremy Shockey yesterday?

When the Saints traded for Jonathan Vilma earlier this year, they gave the Jets a fourth rounder in the 2008 draft with a conditional pick in the 2009 draft that could go as high as the second round. That second round pick in 2009 was then included with a fifth-rounder in the more recent deal for Shockey. So what gives?



According to a league source, the Jets would get the second round pick if Vilma plays 85 percent of the defensive snaps and the Saints sign him to a new deal before the end of this season. If those criteria are not met, the Jets will receive a third-rounder and the Giants get the second- and fifth-rounders. If the Jets get the second rounder, though, the Shockey value will change from a second- and a fifth-rounder in 2009 to a first-rounder in 2010.

"That’s not going to happen because the Saints hold all the cards, and they’re not going to just give away that first rounder when they really don't have to," the source said.

It’s been speculated that Vilma, a fellow University of Miami product, was one of the players who was in Shockey's ear, trying to lure him to the Saints during this summer. If that’s the case (and we're not saying it is since that would probably be some type of tampering), Vilma may have recruited his way out of a new contract in New Orleans -- at least until after free agency opens up.

Many have called the Shockey trade a win-win deal. The only loser appears to be the Jets, who will undoubtedly see their potential second-round pricetag for Vilma shrink to a third.

 

[Construction Man Jim]

The guy I would downgrade in this deal is Brandon Jacobs. That is the one sure thing I would do. If anyone out here believes Shockey is not a good blocker, I would say stop and watch some games or youtube or something.

Some of Jacobs' best games were running behind Boss. May not be as big a factor as you think.

Apparently. Boss has added a good amount of bulk in the off-season to help his blocking and hasn't lost any speed.Also, Mike Garafolo of the Star-Leger points out, Let's not forget about Darcy Johnson.

Boss is right around the same weight he was at the end of last season.

Pierce on Boss:

“I think Boss is capable of (being Shockey’s replacement). We’ve only really seen four, five games of him last year really playing, starting at the end of the season. He gained a lot of weight this off-season, a lot of muscle. The guy looks strong..."

He was 252 at the combine, 272 by the end of last season. He may look bigger or more cut to Pierce, but unless he comes in to camp 280+, he hasn't gained a lot of weight this off-season.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I would slow down on the Boss love. The guy has accomplished almost nothing in the NFL. That doesn't mean he can't eventually become a productive player, but he has gotten a lot more hype than he should. He has 14 catches in his NFL career.

The point is well taken. HOWEVER, a lot of GREAT TEs did virtually nothing in their rookies years. TE is a hard position to learn.Winslow (the HOF one) 25 catchesGonzo 33 catchesHeap 16 catchesWitten 35 catchesGates 24 catchesSharpe 7, then 22That doesn't mean he's going to be like these guys (he isn't), but the fact that he didn't light it up in his rookie year (playing behind a pro-bowl caliber player for most of it) really doesn't mean anything at all.

People have no clue what Boss will do, but to think his value has not gone up more then a little seems a little foolish. I mean his team just traded away an all pro TE and it appears he is walking into the starting role on a team that uses their TE more than average. And I understand that maybe part of the reason they may have been using thier TE more then the average team was due to having a good te in Shockey. But it's not as if Boss did not at least show glimpses of having potential in that offense.I think Boss is in a perfect opportunity to at least keep an eye on. I don't see how anyone can dismiss Boss as having little value going forward at this point.

 

[moderated]

Kevin Boss will not even get 350 yards receiving this year, he's a nobody.

Also most people named Kevin all end up sucking. Who is the last Kevin TE to produce top 10 numbers......I DIDN'T THINK SO, ALL KEVIN'S AT THE TE POSITION HAVE BEEN HORRIBLE.

The Kellen Winslow's..Sr and Jr are top notch, but there aren't any Kevin's to have big time success.

We have to realize that not only is Kevin a late round draft pick, but his name hasn't been one to produce.

 

[Avery]

According to the quotes I linked above, the Giants were trying to work a three way trade involving Jason Taylor . Once the Redskins decided to overpay for Taylor as they tend to do in FA, and it was clear that Shockey wouldn't settle down and "get over it" they pulled the trigger on the Saints offer.

I agree. That was the 3-way trade rumor that Peter King reported the other day.

Maybe this belongs in a Jason Taylor thread but according to the Bergen Record:

But that fell through when Miami refused the Giants request to speak with Taylor prior to the deal being completed.

Seems odd that the deal would be worked on by all sides and then Miami wouldn't allow the Giants to speak to Taylor.Strange...

Parcells.Guy is so overated at this point. Holds grudges and all like he is still the king of football. Someone should remind him that he hasnt won #### (although he had some good seasons. And a bunch of meh ones) since his days with the Giants.

maybe Shockey calling Parcells a "fat homo" a couple of years ago is still sticking in his craw.

According to John Clayton it appears the grudge was against Taylor.

The Giants stalled the discussions because GM Jerry Reese wanted to talk to Taylor -- most likely to gauge his interest in playing beyond 2008 and to discuss restructuring his contract -- before he took the next step with the trade, Mortensen reported. But the Dolphins wouldn't grant permission to the Giants to talk to Taylor because they didn't want Taylor to be in control of any deal.

Seems kinda petty to me...

 

[Andy Herron]

According to the quotes I linked above, the Giants were trying to work a three way trade involving Jason Taylor . Once the Redskins decided to overpay for Taylor as they tend to do in FA, and it was clear that Shockey wouldn't settle down and "get over it" they pulled the trigger on the Saints offer.

I agree. That was the 3-way trade rumor that Peter King reported the other day.

Maybe this belongs in a Jason Taylor thread but according to the Bergen Record:

But that fell through when Miami refused the Giants request to speak with Taylor prior to the deal being completed.

Seems odd that the deal would be worked on by all sides and then Miami wouldn't allow the Giants to speak to Taylor.Strange...

Parcells.Guy is so overated at this point. Holds grudges and all like he is still the king of football. Someone should remind him that he hasnt won #### (although he had some good seasons. And a bunch of meh ones) since his days with the Giants.

maybe Shockey calling Parcells a "fat homo" a couple of years ago is still sticking in his craw.

According to John Clayton it appears the grudge was against Taylor.

The Giants stalled the discussions because GM Jerry Reese wanted to talk to Taylor -- most likely to gauge his interest in playing beyond 2008 and to discuss restructuring his contract -- before he took the next step with the trade, Mortensen reported. But the Dolphins wouldn't grant permission to the Giants to talk to Taylor because they didn't want Taylor to be in control of any deal.

Seems kinda petty to me...

That's just Bill Parcells. He's not only a control freak, but a miserable person that makes everybody around him miserable. That's a fact.When he finally left Valley Ranch here in Dallas, it was like somebody opened all the doors and windows and let a big breeze of fresh air travel throughout the facility and everybody could breath again. Top to bottom.

 

[Andy Herron]

On a side note, this is interesting-

SHOCKEY PREMATURELY VOWS REVENGE

Posted by Tom Mantzouranis on July 23, 2008, 12:04 p.m.

Back in June, Newsday sent a few kids to interview then-Giant Jeremy Shockey. And while he didn’t reach previously established extremes — screaming at the youngsters as he did to Giants GM Jerry Reese — he found a slightly more subtle way of voicing his displeasure, and issued a warning along with it

“If the team trades me, I promise you I’m going to make them pay,” Shockey said. “If I ever get a chance to play against a team that trades me, it’s not going to be a pretty sight.” That’s not the subtle part.

Earlier, when asked what team he would have wanted to draft him if not the Giants (what a loaded — and awesome — question considering the circumstances; someone get that kid a job at the New York Post), Shockey responded “the New Orleans Saints.” Right. Because who wasn’t clamoring to catch passes from Aaron Brooks in those days?

Unfortunately, the Giants and Saints aren’t scheduled to meet this year, unless it’s in the postseason. But in 2009, Big Blue will head to New Orleans. Pencil that one in for primetime already.

Oughta be fun!

 

[Avery]

On a side note, this is interesting-

SHOCKEY PREMATURELY VOWS REVENGE

Posted by Tom Mantzouranis on July 23, 2008, 12:04 p.m.

Back in June, Newsday sent a few kids to interview then-Giant Jeremy Shockey. And while he didn’t reach previously established extremes — screaming at the youngsters as he did to Giants GM Jerry Reese — he found a slightly more subtle way of voicing his displeasure, and issued a warning along with it

“If the team trades me, I promise you I’m going to make them pay,” Shockey said. “If I ever get a chance to play against a team that trades me, it’s not going to be a pretty sight.” That’s not the subtle part.

Earlier, when asked what team he would have wanted to draft him if not the Giants (what a loaded — and awesome — question considering the circumstances; someone get that kid a job at the New York Post), Shockey responded “the New Orleans Saints.” Right. Because who wasn’t clamoring to catch passes from Aaron Brooks in those days?

Unfortunately, the Giants and Saints aren’t scheduled to meet this year, unless it’s in the postseason. But in 2009, Big Blue will head to New Orleans. Pencil that one in for primetime already.

Oughta be fun!

Let me get this straight.Shockey spends the off-season publicly #####ing about the Giants, then moves on to publicly #####ing about how the Giants shouldn't public ##### about their players, practically begs to be traded (while doing everything he can to lower his trade value) while he says he will "make them pay" if they trade him.

When he is right he is a force to be reckoned with on the field but he is definitely a meathead amongst meatheads.

 

[Andy Herron]

On a side note, this is interesting-

SHOCKEY PREMATURELY VOWS REVENGE

Posted by Tom Mantzouranis on July 23, 2008, 12:04 p.m.

Back in June, Newsday sent a few kids to interview then-Giant Jeremy Shockey. And while he didn’t reach previously established extremes — screaming at the youngsters as he did to Giants GM Jerry Reese — he found a slightly more subtle way of voicing his displeasure, and issued a warning along with it

“If the team trades me, I promise you I’m going to make them pay,” Shockey said. “If I ever get a chance to play against a team that trades me, it’s not going to be a pretty sight.” That’s not the subtle part.

Earlier, when asked what team he would have wanted to draft him if not the Giants (what a loaded — and awesome — question considering the circumstances; someone get that kid a job at the New York Post), Shockey responded “the New Orleans Saints.” Right. Because who wasn’t clamoring to catch passes from Aaron Brooks in those days?

Unfortunately, the Giants and Saints aren’t scheduled to meet this year, unless it’s in the postseason. But in 2009, Big Blue will head to New Orleans. Pencil that one in for primetime already.

Oughta be fun!

Let me get this straight.Shockey spends the off-season publicly #####ing about the Giants, then moves on to publicly #####ing about how the Giants shouldn't public ##### about their players, practically begs to be traded (while doing everything he can to lower his trade value) while he says he will "make them pay" if they trade him.

When he is right he is a force to be reckoned with on the field but he is definitely a meathead amongst meatheads.

That's why I said all along they had to move him.

 

[Avery]

Nice writeup on the front page of Big Blue Interactive on the trade, some behind the scenes stuff, and comments from the Giants organization and players.

One item of note. It was much speculated what the Giants asked for vs. what the Saints actually offered around the draft. FWIW, an "unnamed official" within the Giants organization confirmed that the Saints did offer a 2nd and a 5th.

Also, it was reported by someone, and reiterated on this board, that Shockey could not pass a physical. So much so that a blogger here suggested that the Giants would PUP or IR him. The trade is still pending a physical...

Edit to add: My opinion as a Giants fan, is a motivated Shockey would no doubt help the Giants. Despite reports by many in the media, the Giants are not better without him. Having said that, he just couldn't seem to get over feeling snubbed and it seemed that the relationship between the Giants and Shockey was irreconcilable. The choice was not between the firey Shockey all Giants love and trading him. The choice was someone who was going to be a #####y malcontent and trading that player. Given those options, the Giants made the right decision and got good value especially considering that Shockey was doing everything he could to lower his trade value. I really think everybody wins here.

BTW, according to the Daily News, Shockey has passed the physical and trade is now official.

Shockey, by the way, apparently passed his physical for the Saints yesterday. I earlier told you the physical was scheduled for today, but I was misinformed. The trade is now official.

 

[Avery]

On a side note, this is interesting-

SHOCKEY PREMATURELY VOWS REVENGE

Posted by Tom Mantzouranis on July 23, 2008, 12:04 p.m.

Back in June, Newsday sent a few kids to interview then-Giant Jeremy Shockey. And while he didn’t reach previously established extremes — screaming at the youngsters as he did to Giants GM Jerry Reese — he found a slightly more subtle way of voicing his displeasure, and issued a warning along with it

“If the team trades me, I promise you I’m going to make them pay,” Shockey said. “If I ever get a chance to play against a team that trades me, it’s not going to be a pretty sight.” That’s not the subtle part.

Earlier, when asked what team he would have wanted to draft him if not the Giants (what a loaded — and awesome — question considering the circumstances; someone get that kid a job at the New York Post), Shockey responded “the New Orleans Saints.” Right. Because who wasn’t clamoring to catch passes from Aaron Brooks in those days?

Unfortunately, the Giants and Saints aren’t scheduled to meet this year, unless it’s in the postseason. But in 2009, Big Blue will head to New Orleans. Pencil that one in for primetime already.

Oughta be fun!

Let me get this straight.Shockey spends the off-season publicly #####ing about the Giants, then moves on to publicly #####ing about how the Giants shouldn't public ##### about their players, practically begs to be traded (while doing everything he can to lower his trade value) while he says he will "make them pay" if they trade him.

When he is right he is a force to be reckoned with on the field but he is definitely a meathead amongst meatheads.

That's why I said all along they had to move him.

For the purposes of full disclosure, you also said "The fact of the matter is that Shockey can't pass a physical" and said the Giants will PUP him or cut him. Just saying...