Should James Harrison Be Suspended (1 Viewer)

[treat88]

Out of the pocket and attempting to advance the ball....Colt was a runner at that point.

It is not illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. If that were Hills or Og we wouldn't even have seen a flag.

In todays NFL I am guessing he gets a fine for sure, but damn..... defensive players are really in a no win position.

QB in the pocket in the act of throwing...sure you can avoid the helmet. Defenseless receiver, its tougher but you can

try to lower your target zone. But a ball carrier coming head on at those speeds, often times lowering their own helmet? I just think the defender has to be able to make the tackle without worrying about helmets colliding.

Yeah, it IS illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. You can't lead with the crown of your helmet into another player's helmet. Period.He won't be suspended, but he should be. The Steelers should get fined as well since they clearly aren't teaching their guys what is and isn't legal.

Incorrect.

Wow this poster must be new to football. You CAN'T go helmet to helmet on any player not just QB's. It's a fine everytime.

So where are the fines and penalties when a pulling G lights up the LB trying to shoot the gap? Or the OT who downblocks the DT and puts his helmet right in the earhole? Or the DT the goes crown first into a RB?Helmet to helmet contact is absolutely legal when a player is not in a defenseless position.

I 100% agree that you can't use the helmet as a weapon in the spearing, butting, ramming context of the rule, but to insinuate that all tackles where helmets collide meets that standard is off base.

You want to argue that Colt fit the criteria for a player in the process of attempting or just releasing a pass, that's fine, at least that is intelligent. But, let's be very clear that all helmet to helmet contact is not illegal.

 

[Wadsworth]

The call was roughing the passer. Totally incorrect. McCoy was outside the pocket and appeared to be running..then at the last second dumped the ball. Harrision had to assume he was running.

I totally agree with this posting and I don't understand what a defensive player is to do when a qb looks like he's running and then pulls up at the line of scrimage. You can't hit them high and you can't hit them low. My answer is to not allow QB's to run anymore or two hand touch them if they are outside of the pocket.

More information for you to peruse HERE.

 

[treat88]

The call was roughing the passer. Totally incorrect. McCoy was outside the pocket and appeared to be running..then at the last second dumped the ball. Harrision had to assume he was running.

I totally agree with this posting and I don't understand what a defensive player is to do when a qb looks like he's running and then pulls up at the line of scrimage. You can't hit them high and you can't hit them low. My answer is to not allow QB's to run anymore or two hand touch them if they are outside of the pocket.

More information for you to peruse HERE.

Notice that the context of the league's explanation continues to center around the concept of what is considered a defenseless player.If Colt was considered a ball carrier that is an absolutely legal tackle.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Out of the pocket and attempting to advance the ball....Colt was a runner at that point.It is not illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. If that were Hills or Og we wouldn't even have seen a flag.In todays NFL I am guessing he gets a fine for sure, but damn..... defensive players are really in a no win position.QB in the pocket in the act of throwing...sure you can avoid the helmet. Defenseless receiver, its tougher but you can try to lower your target zone. But a ball carrier coming head on at those speeds, often times lowering their own helmet? I just think the defender has to be able to make the tackle without worrying about helmets colliding.

 

[cvnpoka]

These threads are always so ridiculous. Watch the video in slow motion, was he beyond the line of scrimmage, he tucked the ball 2 seconds earlier.... blah, blah, blah, blah.Anyone who even casually follows football knows what it looks like when a player leads with the top of his helmet and tries to jack up the head of the other guy. It is obvious. We all know what happened on that play, Harrison saw he had a shot at McCoy's head and he took it. You can pick through the rule book all you want trying to find some gray area to hide behind, but the bottom line is that the NFL it trying to take that kind of hit out of the game and Harrison seems committed to continuing to look for that type of hit. Which means the NFL is going to be forced to up the level of punishment. You might not like the direction Roger is taking the NFL, but he does seem committed to continuing on that path.

perfect. amazing the mental gymnastics and lack of perspective steeler fans display to attempt to justify their colors.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

These threads are always so ridiculous. Watch the video in slow motion, was he beyond the line of scrimmage, he tucked the ball 2 seconds earlier.... blah, blah, blah, blah.

Anyone who even casually follows football knows what it looks like when a player leads with the top of his helmet and tries to jack up the head of the other guy. It is obvious. We all know what happened on that play, Harrison saw he had a shot at McCoy's head and he took it. You can pick through the rule book all you want trying to find some gray area to hide behind, but the bottom line is that the NFL it trying to take that kind of hit out of the game and Harrison seems committed to continuing to look for that type of hit. Which means the NFL is going to be forced to up the level of punishment.

You might not like the direction Roger is taking the NFL, but he does seem committed to continuing on that path.

These guys are flying around at breakneck speed (both of them) and yet every guy ing about a ' unconscionable' hit always wanna take it to a 'slo-mo' replay. Football is a violent game. People are just becoming such nancies this year especially when it comes to evaluating tese hits. Roger Godell is getting his wish, he is changing the culture of the nfl and removing the violence from the game. Can't wait for next years rule changes.

 

[Wadsworth]

These threads are always so ridiculous. Watch the video in slow motion, was he beyond the line of scrimmage, he tucked the ball 2 seconds earlier.... blah, blah, blah, blah.

Anyone who even casually follows football knows what it looks like when a player leads with the top of his helmet and tries to jack up the head of the other guy. It is obvious. We all know what happened on that play, Harrison saw he had a shot at McCoy's head and he took it. You can pick through the rule book all you want trying to find some gray area to hide behind, but the bottom line is that the NFL it trying to take that kind of hit out of the game and Harrison seems committed to continuing to look for that type of hit. Which means the NFL is going to be forced to up the level of punishment.

You might not like the direction Roger is taking the NFL, but he does seem committed to continuing on that path.

These guys are flying around at breakneck speed (both of them) and yet every guy ing about a ' unconscionable' hit always wanna take it to a 'slo-mo' replay. Football is a violent game. People are just becoming such nancies this year especially when it comes to evaluating tese hits. Roger Godell is getting his wish, he is changing the culture of the nfl and removing the violence from the game. Can't wait for next years rule changes.

Do you think Harrison intentionally cracked him in the coconut or not? Because after all the breakneck speed, nancies, crying, slo-mo, violent game comments that is really all that matters. Watch the video and decide if Harrison intentionally used his helmet to knock on McCoy's dome.LINK

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You still can't hit helmet to helmet.

Helmets hitting is NOT a penalty unless the runner is in a defenseless position, which Sproles wasn't.That said, it was TERRIBLE technique. Defenders have a bad habit in recent years of trying too hard to hit hard, and rarely wrapping up.

Yes it is. You can't lead with your helmet and hit another player in the head. The league is just more protective of defenseless players.

Ray Anderson, NFL executive vice president of football operations, has been the point man in the league's crackdown on illegal hits to the head and neck.

He's been quoted everywhere the past week explaining the league's concern with the rash of brutal hits and adjustments in league discipline going forward.

We caught up with Anderson in a telephone interview as the week wound down.



Q: Why wasn't the James Harrison hit on Josh Cribbs considered an illegal hit?

A: Because he was a runner. He was not defenseless under our rules. So he had a chance on his own to protect himself. So he wasn't under the category of defenseless player per the rules. Exposed? Yeah, but he was a runner. Runners aren't protected from helmet to helmet hits under the current rules.

 

[geoff8695]

Do you think Harrison intentionally cracked him in the coconut or not? Because after all the breakneck speed, nancies, crying, slo-mo, violent game comments that is really all that matters. Watch the video and decide if Harrison intentionally used his helmet to knock on McCoy's dome.

LINK

Honest answer... "YES"He clearly squared up with Colt to make as devastating a "head on" hit as possible, when McCoy was vulnerable, exacting a toll on a QB who dared to throw the football when the defender was dialed in on him. And rather than a glancing blow, targetting the shoulder pads, or even the midsection, Harrison squared up high and powered through going for the "knock out" blow, IMO.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Do you think Harrison intentionally cracked him in the coconut or not? Because after all the breakneck speed, nancies, crying, slo-mo, violent game comments that is really all that matters. Watch the video and decide if Harrison intentionally used his helmet to knock on McCoy's dome.

LINK

Honest answer... "YES"He clearly squared up with Colt to make as devastating a "head on" hit as possible, when McCoy was vulnerable, exacting a toll on a QB who dared to throw the football when the defender was dialed in on him. And rather than a glancing blow, targetting the shoulder pads, or even the midsection, Harrison squared up high and powered through going for the "knock out" blow, IMO.

But he was lowering the boom when Colt was a runner, the determination of hitting him was before he changed back into a passer (which was for a flip/split second)at the last moment. Colt was a runner and chose not to protect himself as such. As a runner, Harrison is allowed to hit him hard.

 

[geoff8695]

The rules are very specific.

A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.

If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...

NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head.

PERIOD

Harrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The rules are very specific. A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head. PERIODHarrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

Once he was a runner, which he was, he is not protected by those rules. He can (or cant) protect himself, that's his choice.

 

[Fensalk]

Under the current rules its an obvious suspension, imo.

 

[Wadsworth]

The rules are very specific. A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head. PERIODHarrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

Once he was a runner, which he was, he is not protected by those rules. He can (or cant) protect himself, that's his choice.

Why was he a runner? He was behind the line and just threw a pass.

 

[geoff8695]

The rules are very specific. A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head. PERIODHarrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

Once he was a runner, which he was, he is not protected by those rules. He can (or cant) protect himself, that's his choice.

You can argue all you like about whether you like the rules as they stand, but you can't make up new ones. ANY player who throws the ball and gets rid of it before the defender arrives (which Colt clearly did), is entitled to certain protections because he is considered to be in a "defenseless posture" as designated by the current NFL rules. Colt was entitled to such protection and the refs were correct in making the call that they did last night. The NFL will also be correct in disciplining Harrison after the fact.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The rules are very specific.

A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.

If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...

NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head.

PERIOD

Harrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

Once he was a runner, which he was, he is not protected by those rules. He can (or cant) protect himself, that's his choice.

Why was he a runner? He was behind the line and just threw a pass.

He tucked the ball away and started to run. At 5:55 of the game clock, he was a full on runner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfFW-Yezv0k&feature=player_detailpage#t=53s

 

[cvnpoka]

wait, steelerfan is arguing his was a runner despite the fact that he completed a pass on the play.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The rules are very specific. A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head. PERIODHarrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

Once he was a runner, which he was, he is not protected by those rules. He can (or cant) protect himself, that's his choice.

You can argue all you like about whether you like the rules as they stand, but you can't make up new ones. ANY player who throws the ball and gets rid of it before the defender arrives (which Colt clearly did), is entitled to certain protections because he is considered to be in a "defenseless posture" as designated by the current NFL rules. Colt was entitled to such protection and the refs were correct in making the call that they did last night. The NFL will also be correct in disciplining Harrison after the fact.

Im repeating what the NFL states. And states it plainly. He was a runner, just because Randy Moss is 30 yards down field running through peole and decides to flip[ a pass... he doesnt get defenseless protection.Why? Because he had a choice to protect himself... unlike a passer or receiver and was NOT defenseless.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

wait, steelerfan is arguing his was a runner despite the fact that he completed a pass on the play.

When you tuck the ball away and start to run... the defender no longer get the sack credit either. You get a tackle... on a runner.

 

[Wadsworth]

The rules are very specific.

A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.

If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...

NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head.

PERIOD

Harrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

Once he was a runner, which he was, he is not protected by those rules. He can (or cant) protect himself, that's his choice.

You can argue all you like about whether you like the rules as they stand, but you can't make up new ones. ANY player who throws the ball and gets rid of it before the defender arrives (which Colt clearly did), is entitled to certain protections because he is considered to be in a "defenseless posture" as designated by the current NFL rules.

Colt was entitled to such protection and the refs were correct in making the call that they did last night. The NFL will also be correct in disciplining Harrison after the fact.

Im repeating what the NFL states. And states it plainly. He was a runner, just because Randy Moss is 30 yards down field running through peole and decides to flip[ a pass... he doesnt get defenseless protection.

Why? Because he had a choice to protect himself... unlike a passer or receiver and was NOT defenseless.

You be sure and let the NFL know they do not understand the rules.

So I specifically asked league spokesman Greg Aiello whether McCoy would be viewed as “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

In response, Aiello pointed out the presence of the following clause, from the same rule: “or throws while on the run.” This apparently means that, in the league’s view, the fact that McCoy threw while running with the ball brought him within the protection against blows to the head, even if he was before throwing the ball “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

LINK

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The rules are very specific.

A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.

If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...

NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head.

PERIOD

Harrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

Once he was a runner, which he was, he is not protected by those rules. He can (or cant) protect himself, that's his choice.

You can argue all you like about whether you like the rules as they stand, but you can't make up new ones. ANY player who throws the ball and gets rid of it before the defender arrives (which Colt clearly did), is entitled to certain protections because he is considered to be in a "defenseless posture" as designated by the current NFL rules.

Colt was entitled to such protection and the refs were correct in making the call that they did last night. The NFL will also be correct in disciplining Harrison after the fact.

Im repeating what the NFL states. And states it plainly. He was a runner, just because Randy Moss is 30 yards down field running through peole and decides to flip[ a pass... he doesnt get defenseless protection.

Why? Because he had a choice to protect himself... unlike a passer or receiver and was NOT defenseless.

You be sure and let the NFL know they do not understand the rules.

So I specifically asked league spokesman Greg Aiello whether McCoy would be viewed as “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

In response, Aiello pointed out the presence of the following clause, from the same rule: “or throws while on the run.” This apparently means that, in the league’s view, the fact that McCoy threw while running with the ball brought him within the protection against blows to the head, even if he was before throwing the ball “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

LINK

And Im fine with the contradiction in their stance. But understand that a split-second before hand he was a legal target to get BLASTED. Even with helmet-to-helmet contact.

Harrison cant change the leagues contradictions. And ALL players (not just qbs) should abuse this contradiction as it currently sits.

Even your link talks about the contradiction in the stance. The NFL can do whatever they wish and change it from game-to-game and play-to-play.

 

[Wadsworth]

The rules are very specific.

A player who has just thrown a pass or is in the process of throwing a pass, is considered to be in a "defenseless posture". Stationary or on the move, in or out of the pocket, means abso-freakin'-lutely NOTHING.

If you hit a guy in the head while he's considered to be in a "defenseless posture", then you just violated the rules. Doesn't matter what part of your equipment or body you use-if you hit such a player in the head you are going to be in trouble with the NFL. Intent is also meaningless at that point. So all of this jibber-jabber about head-to-head, intent, and in or out of the pocket is irrelevant. As is 'apples to iphones' comparisons to running plays...

NFL rules say you can't hit a player having just completed his throwing motion, in the head.

PERIOD

Harrison violated the rule, now we just await his sentencing...

Once he was a runner, which he was, he is not protected by those rules. He can (or cant) protect himself, that's his choice.

You can argue all you like about whether you like the rules as they stand, but you can't make up new ones. ANY player who throws the ball and gets rid of it before the defender arrives (which Colt clearly did), is entitled to certain protections because he is considered to be in a "defenseless posture" as designated by the current NFL rules.

Colt was entitled to such protection and the refs were correct in making the call that they did last night. The NFL will also be correct in disciplining Harrison after the fact.

Im repeating what the NFL states. And states it plainly. He was a runner, just because Randy Moss is 30 yards down field running through peole and decides to flip[ a pass... he doesnt get defenseless protection.

Why? Because he had a choice to protect himself... unlike a passer or receiver and was NOT defenseless.

You be sure and let the NFL know they do not understand the rules.

So I specifically asked league spokesman Greg Aiello whether McCoy would be viewed as “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

In response, Aiello pointed out the presence of the following clause, from the same rule: “or throws while on the run.” This apparently means that, in the league’s view, the fact that McCoy threw while running with the ball brought him within the protection against blows to the head, even if he was before throwing the ball “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

LINK

And Im fine with the contradiction in their stance. But understand that a split-second before hand he was a legal target to get BLASTED. Even with helmet-to-helmet contact.

Harrison cant change the leagues contradictions. And ALL players (not just qbs) should abuse this contradiction as it currently sits.

Even your link talks about the contradiction in the stance. The NFL can do whatever they wish and change it from game-to-game and play-to-play.

And you can hang your hat on those contradictions, but that does not change the fact that you know perfectly well that Harrison intentionally lowered his head and slammed it into McCoy's helmet. You also know that that hit is exactly the type of hit the league has been trying to get out of football. So call it a contradiction or gray area if that helps you in some way, but Harrison will be fined and perhaps suspended and the next time there is some gray area and he slams his helmet into someone's head it will be worse.You are arguing letter of the law and loopholes when the hit was clearly the exact type of hit the rule was made to remove from the game. And on top of that the loophole isn't even valid.

 

[geoff8695]

Perhaps this link will help Steelers fans come to grips with the fact that the NFL rules still protect a player who runs before throwing the football from blows to the head.

League's Official Player Safety Rules

The following information regarding player safety is included in the 2010 League Policies for Players manual, which is distributed to all players and coaches at the start of training camp.

It includes detailed information on illegal hits, including diagrams. We hope this information is helpful in understanding the NFL's player safety-related rules. There has been no change in rules since the start of the season, only an increase in the level of discipline for violations of existing rules.

There is even a picture about two thirds of the way down the page, so that illiterate NFL players, and their fans can SEE what an illegal hit to the QBs head looks like (no joke).

 

[renesauz]

Suspension.

If a RB is running fully upright with his head/helmet 5+ feet off the ground and a defender hits him like that...there would still be a flag for "unnecessary roughness". A RB with his head down, his helmet only 3 and a half feet off the ground is not afforded the same protection, nor should he be since it's nearly impossible to avoid hitting his helmet.

Harrison has shown himself to be a haedhunter, plain and simple, and this hit is a perfect example. McCoy's entire body was available, and Harrison CHOSE to launch to the head. Runner, passer, receiver, or defender running with an interception...doesn't matter...if you're upright your head should be off limits. McCoy didn't duck into this one.

 

[renesauz]

The call was roughing the passer. Totally incorrect. McCoy was outside the pocket and appeared to be running..then at the last second dumped the ball. Harrision had to assume he was running.

I totally agree with this posting and I don't understand what a defensive player is to do when a qb looks like he's running and then pulls up at the line of scrimage. You can't hit them high and you can't hit them low. My answer is to not allow QB's to run anymore or two hand touch them if they are outside of the pocket.

What are you talking about? You can hit him low. You can't hit a QB BELOW THE KNEES when he's stationary in the pocket. You can ALWAYS hit him in the midsection/chest. McCoy was UPRIGHT...his ENTIRE BODY WAS OPEN...no excuse to go for the head. None ZERO NADA..should be suspended.

 

[renesauz]

If Colt was considered a ball carrier that is an absolutely legal tackle.

Disagree...hitting a player in the head un-necessarily is never legal.

 

[faulkfan]

The call was roughing the passer. Totally incorrect. McCoy was outside the pocket and appeared to be running..then at the last second dumped the ball. Harrision had to assume he was running.

So with this logic only stationary QBs are passers? That might explain why refs are so hesitant to call roughing penalties when Vick gets hammered.Let's see...has Harrison made a crapload of dirty shots in the past? Yes. Was the shot helmet to helmet when he could have avoided it? Yes. Fine him, suspend him, and move on.

 

[renesauz]

Really don't get the people defnding Harrison. I wouldn't care if he really was a RB who still had the ball...INTENTIONALLY GUNNING FOR THE HEAD is wrong. It should be flagged.

 

[Oh Yes!]

Harrison leads with his helmet. If when he tackles he leads with his shoulder, this wouldn't be even a question.

i like how these comments get ignored.spot on.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Perhaps this link will help Steelers fans come to grips with the fact that the NFL rules still protect a player who runs before throwing the football from blows to the head.

League's Official Player Safety Rules

The following information regarding player safety is included in the 2010 League Policies for Players manual, which is distributed to all players and coaches at the start of training camp.

It includes detailed information on illegal hits, including diagrams. We hope this information is helpful in understanding the NFL's player safety-related rules. There has been no change in rules since the start of the season, only an increase in the level of discipline for violations of existing rules.

There is even a picture about two thirds of the way down the page, so that illiterate NFL players, and their fans can SEE what an illegal hit to the QBs head looks like (no joke).

From your link, down at the bottom:4. Protection While Out of Pocket. When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule and the provision regarding low hits, but he remains covered by all other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket. If a passer outside the pocket stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he is covered by all of the special protections.

By that definition, yes he's guilty and I already agreed that he will be fined. That will only last until Cam Newton lights up a safety trying to take him on just a foot behind the line of scrimmage. Defenders cannot be hamstrung like that if the QB has turned into a runner, and Colt certainly looked like he was running until Harrison was already launching himself (LEGAL if done vs a runner capable of protecting himself).

The bolded is what people are trying to argue. I have no doubt that Harrison was trying to throw a haymaker hit. He had a legal (and yes, to all the tools claiming that helmet to helmet is never legal, look it up or, if you're too lazy to do that just open the dozen links provided in this thread stating that helmet to helmet hits only protect defensless players ie passing QBs only until they pass the LOS, recievers that have not completed a catch and had an opportunity to protect themselves, players fielding a punt and kickers) chance - or so it appeared .4 seconds before Colt passed the ball, to light him up.

 

[treat88]

So are we at least even clear that if McCoy had been defined as a runner that it was a legal hit?

Do people even understand this yet?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

So are we at least even clear that if McCoy had been defined as a runner that it was a legal hit?

Do people even understand this yet?

Let's fire up the "Should Gocong be suspended?" thread.

 

[nxmehta]

4. Protection While Out of Pocket. When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule and the provision regarding low hits, but he remains covered by all other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket. If a passer outside the pocket stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he is covered by all of the special protections.

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE UNABLE TO READ THE RULESThe rule applying to this hit is stated very clearly in completely unambiguous language right here by this poster who linked directly to the NFL rules (thank you).

Harrison is 100% at fault. There is no question here.

Now, should he be suspended? Probably.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

4. Protection While Out of Pocket. When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule and the provision regarding low hits, but he remains covered by all other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket. If a passer outside the pocket stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he is covered by all of the special protections.

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE UNABLE TO READ THE RULESThe rule applying to this hit is stated very clearly in completely unambiguous language right here by this poster who linked directly to the NFL rules (thank you).

Harrison is 100% at fault. There is no question here.

Now, should he be suspended? Probably.

He didn't establish a passing posture after establishing himself as a runner. He went from being a runner to flipping the ball at the last possible moment.

 

[delusional]

Harrison semi admitted to head hunting. He said since he was out of the pocket and attempting to run he was free game, that's how he understood the rule

This is the problem, seems alot of players, refs even and coaches don't know what the hell the rules are anymore since goodell took over

 

[AmosMoses]

I don't think he should be suspended. James Harrison is the NFL player most likely to go on a murder rampage without football and keeping him in the league will prevent any possible rampages from happening. So for the public good, he needs to not be suspended. Upon retirement, he should be euthanized due to his craziness and rampageyness.

 

[notdarkyet]

He lowered his helmet, effectively making it a weapon. He is a dirty player and fines alone aren't getting his attention. He should be suspended.

 

[Addai's Adidas]

Helmet to the chin=death.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It does seem sort of, ummm, coincidental, that it's Harrison that has these 'accidents' over and over. Don't know when, but the book will be thrown at him sooner or later.

 

[GroveDiesel]

These threads are always so ridiculous. Watch the video in slow motion, was he beyond the line of scrimmage, he tucked the ball 2 seconds earlier.... blah, blah, blah, blah.

Anyone who even casually follows football knows what it looks like when a player leads with the top of his helmet and tries to jack up the head of the other guy. It is obvious. We all know what happened on that play, Harrison saw he had a shot at McCoy's head and he took it. You can pick through the rule book all you want trying to find some gray area to hide behind, but the bottom line is that the NFL it trying to take that kind of hit out of the game and Harrison seems committed to continuing to look for that type of hit. Which means the NFL is going to be forced to up the level of punishment.

You might not like the direction Roger is taking the NFL, but he does seem committed to continuing on that path.

These guys are flying around at breakneck speed (both of them) and yet every guy ing about a ' unconscionable' hit always wanna take it to a 'slo-mo' replay. Football is a violent game. People are just becoming such nancies this year especially when it comes to evaluating tese hits. Roger Godell is getting his wish, he is changing the culture of the nfl and removing the violence from the game. Can't wait for next years rule changes.

Funny, in one corner we have all the mouth breathers who keep complaining about Goodell and the NFL "changing the game."And in the other corner we have all the former players suffering from brain damage, mental illness, depression and early deaths due to the way the game used to be played. Many of whom regret that the game was played that way and who have actually talked of suing the NFL. With how much is known now about the damage those hits do, the NFL would be hugely liable to the current players if they didn't do anything to protect them.

 

[renesauz]

I don't think he should be suspended. James Harrison is the NFL player most likely to go on a murder rampage without football and keeping him in the league will prevent any possible rampages from happening. So for the public good, he needs to not be suspended. Upon retirement, he should be euthanized due to his craziness and rampageyness.

 

[UncleZen]

You can debate on whether or not this should be against the rules but this is currently against the rules. Harrison has already been fined over $105k and hasn't learned anything. He needs to be suspended so it affects the team and then maybe he will learn.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Out of the pocket and attempting to advance the ball....Colt was a runner at that point.

It is not illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. If that were Hills or Og we wouldn't even have seen a flag.

In todays NFL I am guessing he gets a fine for sure, but damn..... defensive players are really in a no win position.

QB in the pocket in the act of throwing...sure you can avoid the helmet. Defenseless receiver, its tougher but you can try to lower your target zone. But a ball carrier coming head on at those speeds, often times lowering their own helmet? I just think the defender has to be able to make the tackle without worrying about helmets colliding.

Yeah, it IS illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. You can't lead with the crown of your helmet into another player's helmet. Period.He won't be suspended, but he should be. The Steelers should get fined as well since they clearly aren't teaching their guys what is and isn't legal.

This just isn't true. Look at the hit on Mendenhall at the goalline from earlier in the game.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Out of the pocket and attempting to advance the ball....Colt was a runner at that point.

It is not illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. If that were Hills or Og we wouldn't even have seen a flag.

In todays NFL I am guessing he gets a fine for sure, but damn..... defensive players are really in a no win position.

QB in the pocket in the act of throwing...sure you can avoid the helmet. Defenseless receiver, its tougher but you can try to lower your target zone. But a ball carrier coming head on at those speeds, often times lowering their own helmet? I just think the defender has to be able to make the tackle without worrying about helmets colliding.

Yeah, it IS illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. You can't lead with the crown of your helmet into another player's helmet. Period.He won't be suspended, but he should be. The Steelers should get fined as well since they clearly aren't teaching their guys what is and isn't legal.

This just isn't true. Look at the hit on Mendenhall at the goalline from earlier in the game.

Just because they didn't call it doesn't mean it's not against the rules. Lots of penalties don't get called. I posted the exact rule directly from the official rulebook. I don't know what else you guys want.

 

[Wadsworth]

Out of the pocket and attempting to advance the ball....Colt was a runner at that point.

It is not illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. If that were Hills or Og we wouldn't even have seen a flag.

In todays NFL I am guessing he gets a fine for sure, but damn..... defensive players are really in a no win position.

QB in the pocket in the act of throwing...sure you can avoid the helmet. Defenseless receiver, its tougher but you can try to lower your target zone. But a ball carrier coming head on at those speeds, often times lowering their own helmet? I just think the defender has to be able to make the tackle without worrying about helmets colliding.

Yeah, it IS illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. You can't lead with the crown of your helmet into another player's helmet. Period.He won't be suspended, but he should be. The Steelers should get fined as well since they clearly aren't teaching their guys what is and isn't legal.

This just isn't true. Look at the hit on Mendenhall at the goalline from earlier in the game.

Just because they didn't call it doesn't mean it's not against the rules. Lots of penalties don't get called. I posted the exact rule directly from the official rulebook. I don't know what else you guys want.

This is what he posted for any who missed it.

(g) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or

facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.

Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures . . .

 

[munchkin]

According to the rules and an explanation I heard on Sirius with Pat Kirwin yesterday that was an illegal hit. The Qb does not become a runner until he crosses over the line of scrimmage.

Harrison is not a rookie and well knew what he was doing. I don't know how many times he has been fined over the last few years but his play on the field and the end results are just what he wants; sacks, tackles, pain and intimidation.

Fining him or suspending him will not change his game. That old dog isn't interested in changing his tricks.

 

[nxmehta]

4. Protection While Out of Pocket. When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule and the provision regarding low hits, but he remains covered by all other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket. If a passer outside the pocket stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he is covered by all of the special protections.

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE UNABLE TO READ THE RULESThe rule applying to this hit is stated very clearly in completely unambiguous language right here by this poster who linked directly to the NFL rules (thank you).

Harrison is 100% at fault. There is no question here.

Now, should he be suspended? Probably.

He didn't establish a passing posture after establishing himself as a runner. He went from being a runner to flipping the ball at the last possible moment.

You guys won the game dude. That's not enough? You have to be right in every possible argument?Colt threw a pass behind the line of scrimmage. I don't know how you do that without establishing a passing posture.

Look, I actually think Harrison is a great player. It's not the end of the freaking world to admit that he broke the rules here.

####### Steeler fans...

 

[Cookiemonster]

Look, I actually think Harrison is a great player. It's not the end of the freaking world to admit that he broke the rules here.

####### Steeler fans...

I think we have all admitted that he broke the rules, by the letter of the law. We are just saying that it was borderline grey area and understandable, making a fine likely and a suspension overboard. We have pretty much all said he should and will likely be fined for the play. We are also lobbying against all the ignorant posters saying that helmet to helmet hits are ALWAYS illegal and that he should be thrown out of the league for a play that was illegal by a fraction of a second and that the lack of reaction time should not be ignored. We are also arguing the interpretation and application of the "crown of the helmet" rule that so many are expecting Harrison to be crucified for but has in nobody's memory been applied to a non-protected player (which we're not saying Colt was non-protected, just that he was non-protected when Harrison initiated his movement and was protected by the completioin of the movement). It's not black and white, no matter which side you're arguing. Why does everyone seem to be so "my way or the highway" the last week or so in the Shark Pool?

 

[treat88]

Out of the pocket and attempting to advance the ball....Colt was a runner at that point.

It is not illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. If that were Hills or Og we wouldn't even have seen a flag.

In todays NFL I am guessing he gets a fine for sure, but damn..... defensive players are really in a no win position.

QB in the pocket in the act of throwing...sure you can avoid the helmet. Defenseless receiver, its tougher but you can try to lower your target zone. But a ball carrier coming head on at those speeds, often times lowering their own helmet? I just think the defender has to be able to make the tackle without worrying about helmets colliding.

Yeah, it IS illegal to go helmet to helmet on a runner. You can't lead with the crown of your helmet into another player's helmet. Period.He won't be suspended, but he should be. The Steelers should get fined as well since they clearly aren't teaching their guys what is and isn't legal.

This just isn't true. Look at the hit on Mendenhall at the goalline from earlier in the game.

Just because they didn't call it doesn't mean it's not against the rules. Lots of penalties don't get called. I posted the exact rule directly from the official rulebook. I don't know what else you guys want.

This is what he posted for any who missed it.

(g) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or

facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.

Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures . . .

Butting, ramming, and spearing are considered violent and unnecessary action....that is not even in question.

You seem to think those things constitute tackling tho, which is just incorrect.

If the league wants to interpret McCoy as a passer and therefore defenseless in that situation, what Harrison did is 100% against the rules.

But, I think there is a reasonable discussion as to whether that is a fair interpretation.

The fact of the matter is, that helmet to helmet contact is not a penalty, intentional or unintentional, if the player being hit is considered a ballcarrier...illustrated by the leagues interpretation of the McCoy hit emphasizing he was considered defenseless rather than the nature of the tackle, illustrated by Ray Anderson's comments on the Cribbs hit, illustrated by the myriad hits, including the one against Mendenhall from the same game that go uncalled weekly, and primarily illustrated by the simple lack of a rule in the rule book.

My point has nothing to do with defending Harrison, but everything to do with pointing out how skewed towards the offensive side of the ball the league is making the rules and how defensive players are put in a no win position and villanized for hits that are often times either legal, unavoidable, or initiated by the offensive player.

 

[geoff8695]

The fact of the matter is, that helmet to helmet contact is not a penalty, intentional or unintentional, if the player being hit is considered a ballcarrier...

You need to do a better job of fact checking GB... While helmet to helmet contact in ALL situations IS NOT automatically an illegal hit, the FACT OF THE MATTER is that any time a defender is considered to be:

" using any part of a players helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protect those players who are in virtually defenseless postures."

Just because a player is not considered to be in a defenseless posture is not a free license to initiate a 'helmet to helmet' or 'helmet to any other body part' collision. And if it is deemed to be excessively violent and/or unnecessary, then it too will be considered a violation of NFL rules, even against a ballcarrier...