Should James Harrison Be Suspended (2 Viewers)

[treat88]

Again you chose to overtook the specific mention of the use of the terms butt, ram, and spear.

Those actions are what are considered illegal and unnecessary not helmet to helmet contact in the course of a tackle.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

 

[Donnybrook]

Suspensions like this might have unforseen consequences down the road or in a playoff race. Hypothetically, what if Harrison illegally hit Dalton and was suspended for Baltimore game the following week.

I can see why the league is sticking with fines for individual offenders/players

 

[Sabertooth]

Cheap. Shot. Artist.

 

[geoff8695]

Again you chose to overtook the specific mention of the use of the terms butt, ram, and spear.

Those actions are what are considered illegal and unnecessary not helmet to helmet contact in the course of a tackle.

Ummm...Actually I quoted them verbatim from the NFL's rules.

And unlike your factually incorrect stance that a "ballcarrier" is fair game when it comes to helmet-to-helmet collisions, whether such contact is "intentional or unintentional", I bolded the language in the NFL rules that makes it clear that excessively violent and/or unnecessary use of the helmet as a weapon is "impermissable against any opponent".

Certainly there is less protection and more interpretation in the case of a ballcarrier, no argument there... And conversely in the case of players in a "defenseless posture" there is almost a zero tolerance approach...

However, ALL players are protected against excessively violent and unnecessary use of the helmet as a weapon, even ballcarriers.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Suspensions like this might have unforseen consequences down the road or in a playoff race. Hypothetically, what if Harrison illegally hit Dalton and was suspended for Baltimore game the following week.

I can see why the league is sticking with fines for individual offenders/players

Good. Maybe then, when they start costing their team more than just 15 yards, will thugs like Harrison get it through their thick skulls that head shots like this have no place in the game.

 

[Cookiemonster]

The fact of the matter is, that helmet to helmet contact is not a penalty, intentional or unintentional, if the player being hit is considered a ballcarrier...

You need to do a better job of fact checking GB... While helmet to helmet contact in ALL situations IS NOT automatically an illegal hit, the FACT OF THE MATTER is that any time a defender is considered to be:

" using any part of a players helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protect those players who are in virtually defenseless postures."

Just because a player is not considered to be in a defenseless posture is not a free license to initiate a 'helmet to helmet' or 'helmet to any other body part' collision. And if it is deemed to be excessively violent and/or unnecessary, then it too will be considered a violation of NFL rules, even against a ballcarrier...

Many laws you may question, just in California. Are these enforcable, or just "still there?" Does anybody really care?

 

[renesauz]

The fact of the matter is, that helmet to helmet contact is not a penalty, intentional or unintentional, if the player being hit is considered a ballcarrier...

You need to do a better job of fact checking GB... While helmet to helmet contact in ALL situations IS NOT automatically an illegal hit, the FACT OF THE MATTER is that any time a defender is considered to be:

" using any part of a players helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protect those players who are in virtually defenseless postures."

Just because a player is not considered to be in a defenseless posture is not a free license to initiate a 'helmet to helmet' or 'helmet to any other body part' collision. And if it is deemed to be excessively violent and/or unnecessary, then it too will be considered a violation of NFL rules, even against a ballcarrier...

As I have repeatedly said...there's a big differance between hitting a RB in the head when his head is 3 1/2 feet off the ground pushing through a pile (head first), and hitting a QB or WR in the head when they're upright, with their head 5+ feet off the ground. It's really not THAT dammm hard to make your intial contact with an upright player somwhere BELOW the 5 foot mark. If a player can't do that, he shouldn't be playing. Harrison has shown time and again he isn't interested in simply making a tackle...he wants to hurt somebody. As a multiple repeat offender, he needs to be suspended.

 

[Donnybrook]

Suspensions like this might have unforseen consequences down the road or in a playoff race. Hypothetically, what if Harrison illegally hit Dalton and was suspended for Baltimore game the following week.

I can see why the league is sticking with fines for individual offenders/players

Good. Maybe then, when they start costing their team more than just 15 yards, will thugs like Harrison get it through their thick skulls that head shots like this have no place in the game.

I am not talking about the negative consequences to Pittsburgh. I am talking about the negative consequences to Cincinnati possibly losing a player like Dalton to a concussion and having an opposing team not having to deal with Harrison. It all hypotetical but it could happen with all the divisional games on the schedule.

 

[AmosMoses]

Mods, please change the title of this thread to "Steelers fans get owned here". Thanks

 

[treat88]

Again you chose to overtook the specific mention of the use of the terms butt, ram, and spear.

Those actions are what are considered illegal and unnecessary not helmet to helmet contact in the course of a tackle.

Ummm...Actually I quoted them verbatim from the NFL's rules.

And unlike your factually incorrect stance that a "ballcarrier" is fair game when it comes to helmet-to-helmet collisions, whether such contact is "intentional or unintentional", I bolded the language in the NFL rules that makes it clear that excessively violent and/or unnecessary use of the helmet as a weapon is "impermissable against any opponent".

Certainly there is less protection and more interpretation in the case of a ballcarrier, no argument there... And conversely in the case of players in a "defenseless posture" there is almost a zero tolerance approach...

However, ALL players are protected against excessively violent and unnecessary use of the helmet as a weapon, even ballcarriers.

Ya know, I really don't think we are that far off of being in agreement here, as I too can think of egregious instances of when helmet to helmet contact on a ballcarrier might be considered excessively violent or using the helmet as a weapon.A large part of my initial input in this thread was in response to those claiming that all helmet to helmet contact is illegal, which it clearly is not. I will, however agree,that there are no absolutes on my side of the argument either.

My position in this thread is based on thinking of the type of helmet to helmet contact that occurs in the majority of "normal" tackles on a ballcarrier. In those instances, be it Cogong vs. Mendenhall or Harrison vs. McCoy type of hits, I don't believe that type of contact against a ballcarrier fits the criteria of "excessively violent", whether it is intentionally initiated or not. Nor is most "normal" helmet to helmet contact generally considered butting, ramming, or spearing.

Again, if the league felt that the hit Harrison put on McCoy was in question based on the nature of the hit itself, why explain it in terms of defining McCoy as defenseless? They would have just stated that the hit itself was excessively violent...right?

I can see how this could turn into a debate on semantics and that isn't my intention. It is my contention, that if McCoy, or any other player, had been defined as a ballcarrier, and was not considered defenseless, that the type of hit Harrison put on him would be considered legal. I get that there will be a multitude of opinions about where that line gets drawn, but it's my understanding based on precedent, league explanations, and the rule book that this would have been considered a legal hit absent the protections given to a QB considered defenseless.

None of my position is about defending Harrison. I certainly don't want to see anyone injured or be disabled anymore than anyone else who has posted in this thread. It's an interesting discussion to try to determine how the league has decided to selectively enforce, or not, a fairly ambiguous rule...and to question why they have chosen to write the rule so ambiguously.

Not referring to this hit specifically but more generally, it is frustrating that now after every hit that even appears forceful we have "fans" calling for defensive players heads (no pun intended) based on slow motion dissection of the tape. The defenders are tasked with a tough job and put in a no-win position by the rules and then villified by "fans" that just don't understand that often times these hits are either unavoidable or the offensive player initiates them. For those who want to call my position being about "black and gold goggles"...whatever, I'm not going to change your mind, but in all reality my position is more about having "defensive football goggles".

It's off topic but, we see helmet to helmet contact consistently that does not involve a ballcarrier that is equivalent to the Harrison hit multiple times throughout games, be it OG vs LB, OT vs. DT, FB vs LB (you get the drift) that does not draw fines or flags...why is this type of contact accepted by both the league and fans without penalizing, fining, or villifying those involved? I would argue that they are more concerned with PR than player safety, but again that is off topic.

For the record, I believe Harrison absolutely and intentionally went for a kill shot on McCoy. I also believe that if McCoys jersey had any other name on the back of it that the hit in question would be considered legal, and that there is a debate about whether it is reasonable that McCoy wasn't considered a ballcarrier by the league based on his actions.

 

[geoff8695]

Ya know, I really don't think we are that far off of being in agreement here

Agreed It's often difficult to determine exactly what is "too violent", or "unnecessary" in all cases, and it makes it easy to criticize the league for seeming inconsistent in its approach.I definitely appreciate the frustration of NFL defenders, and/or fans of teams/players that play a very physical brand of football. Many of the hits that warrant discipline under current league rules today, would have been considered to be terrific defensive plays a few decades ago.As a life-long Chicago Bears fan, physical play has been a hallmark of many of my favorite players/teams, so I don't want to come off as wanting to see the game reduced to two hand touch or flag football.However, I also believe PEDs/hormones, nutrition, fitness, and year round training have created absolutely freakish specimens in today's pro game. Players are increasingly bigger/stronger/faster than their predecessors. Physics combined with certain human biological limitations, dictate that eventually someone is going to get killed if the NFL were to maintain status quo from previous generations. That puts the league between a rock and a hard place IMO. Football is, in its essence, a violent game and wouldn't be the same if physicality, intimidation, and imposing one's will on an opponent were removed altogether. Therefore, I think the league is doing about the best it can, even if it's approach seems ambiguous at times.Hopefully great players like Harrison can find a way to adapt to these rules. However, I don't really have a problem with Goodell disciplining them when they don't. A necessary evil IMO.

 

[Short Corner]

If you don't condemn it, you condone it. The NFL needs to start fining coaches when these repeat offenders don't get the message.

 

[Short Corner]

The call was roughing the passer. Totally incorrect. McCoy was outside the pocket and appeared to be running..then at the last second dumped the ball. Harrision had to assume he was running.

I totally agree with this posting and I don't understand what a defensive player is to do when a qb looks like he's running and then pulls up at the line of scrimage. You can't hit them high and you can't hit them low. My answer is to not allow QB's to run anymore or two hand touch them if they are outside of the pocket.

How about making a textbook hit. See what you hit and wrap. It's not really that complicated.

 

[Short Corner]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

 

[Godsbrother]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

You may not realize this but the NFL existed and even prospered before Roger Goodell.

 

[glumpy]

The call was roughing the passer. Totally incorrect. McCoy was outside the pocket and appeared to be running..then at the last second dumped the ball. Harrision had to assume he was running.

I totally agree with this posting and I don't understand what a defensive player is to do when a qb looks like he's running and then pulls up at the line of scrimage. You can't hit them high and you can't hit them low. My answer is to not allow QB's to run anymore or two hand touch them if they are outside of the pocket.

How about making a textbook hit. See what you hit and wrap. It's not really that complicated.

Sorry but that wasn't a 'hit and wrap'. It was helmet first. That's my issue with it, whatever they decide.

 

[JAA]

I firmly believe the only way the NFL is going to survive past 10 years is if the game removes helmets.

As mentioned above, someone is going to die during a game, it is only a matter of time. Once this happens, the NFL is screwed.

 

[munchkin]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

You may not realize this but the NFL existed and even prospered before Roger Goodell.

The fact that McCoy dumped the ball off at the last possible second is irrelevant; tha fact that he is a QB and behind the line of scrimmage is what is relevant.We don't exist in the past, we have to deal with the present. Goodell doesn't make the rules, he enforces them. It seems that owners would like to protect multi million dollar players. The teams have much more money invested in high profile position players than they did 20-30 years ago. Big Ben can't be protcted from all the shots he takes because of his size, stature and the way he plays. But if you can protect him or other highly paid QBs from head shots or blatant attempts to take his knees out there is nothing wrong with that; it makes sense from an investment standpoint. Harrison is a lightning rod because of his past history and his insistence on playing football according to his own doctrin. He knows the rules. he knows who the QB is on the opposing team. He wants to inflict maximum punishment to the opposing players rules be damned.

 

[Wadsworth]

I firmly believe the only way the NFL is going to survive past 10 years is if the game removes helmets.As mentioned above, someone is going to die during a game, it is only a matter of time. Once this happens, the NFL is screwed.

And when someone dies there will be people on this message board defending the hit and calling people who don't like it nancies.

 

[cvnpoka]

I firmly believe the only way the NFL is going to survive past 10 years is if the game removes helmets.As mentioned above, someone is going to die during a game, it is only a matter of time. Once this happens, the NFL is screwed.

removing helmets is a great way to ensure someone does die during a game. and to massively increase the amount of brain trauma's.

 

[Wadsworth]

I firmly believe the only way the NFL is going to survive past 10 years is if the game removes helmets.As mentioned above, someone is going to die during a game, it is only a matter of time. Once this happens, the NFL is screwed.

removing helmets is a great way to ensure someone does die during a game. and to massively increase the amount of brain trauma's.

I agree that removing the helmets is not going to happen. But I can tell you that I played rugby for many years the type of hit we saw on McCoy simply is not at all a concern in rugby. When you do not have a helmet, you make sure and pay attention to where your head is going. The helmet is suppose to be a protective device not a weapon.

 

[mr roboto]

I firmly believe the only way the NFL is going to survive past 10 years is if the game removes helmets.As mentioned above, someone is going to die during a game, it is only a matter of time. Once this happens, the NFL is screwed.

removing helmets is a great way to ensure someone does die during a game. and to massively increase the amount of brain trauma's.

Someone doesn't understand price/quantity curves.

 

[rascal]

Suspended and fined. Lowered his head and is clearly head-to-head and he is a repeat offender.

 

[Short Corner]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

You may not realize this but the NFL existed and even prospered before Roger Goodell.

And players have been getting bigger, faster, stronger, etc. Add to that the numerous studies on the brains of deceased NFL players brains and you are looking at the potential death of the sport in the next several decades. But hey, lets ride this bad boy til they kick us off screaming.

 

[Short Corner]

The call was roughing the passer. Totally incorrect. McCoy was outside the pocket and appeared to be running..then at the last second dumped the ball. Harrision had to assume he was running.

I totally agree with this posting and I don't understand what a defensive player is to do when a qb looks like he's running and then pulls up at the line of scrimage. You can't hit them high and you can't hit them low. My answer is to not allow QB's to run anymore or two hand touch them if they are outside of the pocket.

How about making a textbook hit. See what you hit and wrap. It's not really that complicated.

Sorry but that wasn't a 'hit and wrap'. It was helmet first. That's my issue with it, whatever they decide.

That was my point. These goons claim they are being handcuffed by the rules. Show me one hit where the guy actually had his head up and wrapped and was fined (late hits excluded.)

 

[Godsbrother]

Mods, please change the title of this thread to "Steelers fans get owned here". Thanks

In my earlier posts I have said that Harrison will be fined but not suspended. If he is suspended then I got owned. If he just gets a fine then the NFL is in agreement with me. We will know soon enough.

 

[Steelfan7]

Cheap. Shot. Artist.

You must have never played a down of football if you think that hit was a cheap shot. Football is a physically violent sport. He didn't hit him after the whistle blew.

 

[Steelfan7]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

You may not realize this but the NFL existed and even prospered before Roger Goodell.

And players have been getting bigger, faster, stronger, etc. Add to that the numerous studies on the brains of deceased NFL players brains and you are looking at the potential death of the sport in the next several decades. But hey, lets ride this bad boy til they kick us off screaming.

Most of the blame lies with the NFL itself. They promote and sell video and still images of violent collisions. They also choose to ignore the fact that there is better helmet designs available, but choose to use lesser quality helmets due to the money from Riddell. I can somewhat understand the rules in protecting each teams' biggest investment (qb) while they are in the pocket,but once they leave the pocket they now become a rb and rules states anything goes against the rb between the whistles.

 

[Burl]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

You may not realize this but the NFL existed and even prospered before Roger Goodell.

And players have been getting bigger, faster, stronger, etc. Add to that the numerous studies on the brains of deceased NFL players brains and you are looking at the potential death of the sport in the next several decades. But hey, lets ride this bad boy til they kick us off screaming.

Most of the blame lies with the NFL itself. They promote and sell video and still images of violent collisions. They also choose to ignore the fact that there is better helmet designs available, but choose to use lesser quality helmets due to the money from Riddell. I can somewhat understand the rules in protecting each teams' biggest investment (qb) while they are in the pocket,but once they leave the pocket they now become a rb and rules states anything goes against the rb between the whistles.

As has been stated many times in this thread, a QB leaving the pocket is NOT a RB.

 

[treat88]

I firmly believe the only way the NFL is going to survive past 10 years is if the game removes helmets.As mentioned above, someone is going to die during a game, it is only a matter of time. Once this happens, the NFL is screwed.

And when someone dies there will be people on this message board defending the hit and calling people who don't like it nancies.

Agreed, especially if it happens in the course of a legal hit.There will also be those who continue to intentionally misstate the rules.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

You may not realize this but the NFL existed and even prospered before Roger Goodell.

And players have been getting bigger, faster, stronger, etc. Add to that the numerous studies on the brains of deceased NFL players brains and you are looking at the potential death of the sport in the next several decades. But hey, lets ride this bad boy til they kick us off screaming.

Most of the blame lies with the NFL itself. They promote and sell video and still images of violent collisions. They also choose to ignore the fact that there is better helmet designs available, but choose to use lesser quality helmets due to the money from Riddell. I can somewhat understand the rules in protecting each teams' biggest investment (qb) while they are in the pocket,but once they leave the pocket they now become a rb and rules states anything goes against the rb between the whistles.

As has been stated many times in this thread, a QB leaving the pocket is NOT a RB.

True he wasnt a rb, but he also WAS a Runner.

 

[Burl]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

You may not realize this but the NFL existed and even prospered before Roger Goodell.

And players have been getting bigger, faster, stronger, etc. Add to that the numerous studies on the brains of deceased NFL players brains and you are looking at the potential death of the sport in the next several decades. But hey, lets ride this bad boy til they kick us off screaming.

Most of the blame lies with the NFL itself. They promote and sell video and still images of violent collisions. They also choose to ignore the fact that there is better helmet designs available, but choose to use lesser quality helmets due to the money from Riddell. I can somewhat understand the rules in protecting each teams' biggest investment (qb) while they are in the pocket,but once they leave the pocket they now become a rb and rules states anything goes against the rb between the whistles.

As has been stated many times in this thread, a QB leaving the pocket is NOT a RB.

True he wasnt a rb, but he also WAS a Runner.

No, he was a passer. Hence the completed pass. This can't be made any more clear.

 

[renesauz]

Still not getting this argument. If a defender CAN avoid H2H, and doesn't...he deserves to get fined and suspended for dangerous play...regardless who he hits.

McCoy was 100% upright and didn't duck into it...no excuse. Easy call, easy fine, and should be a suspension given the history.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

i think that harrison is a dirty player, but we would not even be having this discussion if mccoy hadnt dumped the ball off at the last possible second. its idiotic for players to have athe exact same hit be both legal and illegal all based on whether a running qb manages to get away a pass or not. all this defenseless player #### is wrecking football.

No what's ruining football are guys who are looking for opportunities to take shots instead of making plays.

You may not realize this but the NFL existed and even prospered before Roger Goodell.

And players have been getting bigger, faster, stronger, etc. Add to that the numerous studies on the brains of deceased NFL players brains and you are looking at the potential death of the sport in the next several decades. But hey, lets ride this bad boy til they kick us off screaming.

Most of the blame lies with the NFL itself. They promote and sell video and still images of violent collisions. They also choose to ignore the fact that there is better helmet designs available, but choose to use lesser quality helmets due to the money from Riddell. I can somewhat understand the rules in protecting each teams' biggest investment (qb) while they are in the pocket,but once they leave the pocket they now become a rb and rules states anything goes against the rb between the whistles.

As has been stated many times in this thread, a QB leaving the pocket is NOT a RB.

True he wasnt a rb, but he also WAS a Runner.

No, he was a passer. Hence the completed pass. This can't be made any more clear.

A runner can catch passes. A runner can throw passes. McCoy was a passer and a runner on that play.

 

[cvnpoka]

I firmly believe the only way the NFL is going to survive past 10 years is if the game removes helmets.As mentioned above, someone is going to die during a game, it is only a matter of time. Once this happens, the NFL is screwed.

removing helmets is a great way to ensure someone does die during a game. and to massively increase the amount of brain trauma's.

Someone doesn't understand price/quantity curves.

someone doesnt understand momentum

 

[mr roboto]

I firmly believe the only way the NFL is going to survive past 10 years is if the game removes helmets.As mentioned above, someone is going to die during a game, it is only a matter of time. Once this happens, the NFL is screwed.

removing helmets is a great way to ensure someone does die during a game. and to massively increase the amount of brain trauma's.

Someone doesn't understand price/quantity curves.

someone doesnt understand momentum

Sure I do. Do you understand the relationship between price (hint: cost) and quantity (hint: use of head in tackling).

 

[cvnpoka]

heres a hint: nfl players arent perfectly rational entities. esp "in the heat of battle."

 

[Short Corner]

heres a hint: nfl players arent perfectly rational entities. esp "in the heat of battle."

Some more so than others, hence the negative reinforcement.

 

[mr roboto]

heres a hint: nfl players arent perfectly rational entities. esp "in the heat of battle."

Without helmets they may surprise you with their clarity of thought re:using their head as a spear into another guys head.

 

[Wadsworth]

heres a hint: nfl players arent perfectly rational entities. esp "in the heat of battle."

Without helmets they may surprise you with their clarity of thought re:using their head as a spear into another guys head.

The accidental head to head in the speed of the game argument just does not work for me. I played rugby for many years and the speed of play is plenty fast and there are just as many tackles. And head to head contact is not an issue because when you tackle you make sure you don't knock yourself out.Clearly some players in the NFL look for the helmet to helmet hits. Clearly the NFL wants these hits out of the game. Clearly regardless of any perceived gray area the hit Harrison put on McCoy is exactly the type of hit the NFL wants to go away. The NFL does not want the helmet to be a weapon and will continue to flag, fine and eventually suspend players until they figure it out. So keep arguing runner or not runner blah, blah, blah if you want. But the League has made it plain that they are committed to stopping the head hunting and any player that continues to try and crack coconuts with his helmet is going to suffer. And I will have no sympathy for the players that simply refuse to see the writing on the wall.

 

[cvnpoka]

i shouldnt even have to say it but rugby is a completely different game

 

[Godsbrother]

The accidental head to head in the speed of the game argument just does not work for me. I played rugby for many years and the speed of play is plenty fast and there are just as many tackles. And head to head contact is not an issue because when you tackle you make sure you don't knock yourself out.

Comparing your experience in a recreation rugby league to the NFL is like comparing my beer league softball team to MLB.

Clearly some players in the NFL look for the helmet to helmet hits. Clearly the NFL wants these hits out of the game. Clearly regardless of any perceived gray area the hit Harrison put on McCoy is exactly the type of hit the NFL wants to go away. The NFL does not want the helmet to be a weapon and will continue to flag, fine and eventually suspend players until they figure it out. So keep arguing runner or not runner blah, blah, blah if you want. But the League has made it plain that they are committed to stopping the head hunting and any player that continues to try and crack coconuts with his helmet is going to suffer. And I will have no sympathy for the players that simply refuse to see the writing on the wall.

Fine. Just suspend ALL of the players guilty of multiple helmet-to-helmet infractions (Ray Lewis) rather than one stupid enough to criticize the commissioner (Harrison).

 

[Wadsworth]

i shouldnt even have to say it but rugby is a completely different game

It is. And there are plenty of brutal hits, just no one using there helmet as a weapon to try and injure opposing players. The rugby comparison should not even have to be made. It should be obvious to anyone paying attention that the hit Harrison made was not accidental due the speed of the game or some fluke occurrence. Harrison lined up McCoy and tried to knock him out. I only bring up rugby to refute the ridiculous argument that the game is too fast to stop these kinds of hits. Obviously these kinds of hits almost never happen in a similar sport were the players do not wear helmets so it is clearly possible.

 

[The_Man]

The accidental head to head in the speed of the game argument just does not work for me. I played rugby for many years and the speed of play is plenty fast and there are just as many tackles. And head to head contact is not an issue because when you tackle you make sure you don't knock yourself out.

Comparing your experience in a recreation rugby league to the NFL is like comparing my beer league softball team to MLB.

Clearly some players in the NFL look for the helmet to helmet hits. Clearly the NFL wants these hits out of the game. Clearly regardless of any perceived gray area the hit Harrison put on McCoy is exactly the type of hit the NFL wants to go away. The NFL does not want the helmet to be a weapon and will continue to flag, fine and eventually suspend players until they figure it out. So keep arguing runner or not runner blah, blah, blah if you want. But the League has made it plain that they are committed to stopping the head hunting and any player that continues to try and crack coconuts with his helmet is going to suffer. And I will have no sympathy for the players that simply refuse to see the writing on the wall.

Fine. Just suspend ALL of the players guilty of multiple helmet-to-helmet infractions (Ray Lewis) rather than one stupid enough to criticize the commissioner (Harrison).

Here is the Ray Lewis hit on Austin Collie that drew a $5,000 fine.I think looking at that hit - which is a very questionable penalty - undermines your argument a little.

 

[Godsbrother]

i shouldnt even have to say it but rugby is a completely different game

It is. And there are plenty of brutal hits, just no one using there helmet as a weapon to try and injure opposing players. The rugby comparison should not even have to be made. It should be obvious to anyone paying attention that the hit Harrison made was not accidental due the speed of the game or some fluke occurrence. Harrison lined up McCoy and tried to knock him out. I only bring up rugby to refute the ridiculous argument that the game is too fast to stop these kinds of hits. Obviously these kinds of hits almost never happen in a similar sport were the players do not wear helmets so it is clearly possible.

Go google "Rugby" and "Concussions".

 

[Wadsworth]

The accidental head to head in the speed of the game argument just does not work for me. I played rugby for many years and the speed of play is plenty fast and there are just as many tackles. And head to head contact is not an issue because when you tackle you make sure you don't knock yourself out.

Comparing your experience in a recreation rugby league to the NFL is like comparing my beer league softball team to MLB.

Clearly some players in the NFL look for the helmet to helmet hits. Clearly the NFL wants these hits out of the game. Clearly regardless of any perceived gray area the hit Harrison put on McCoy is exactly the type of hit the NFL wants to go away. The NFL does not want the helmet to be a weapon and will continue to flag, fine and eventually suspend players until they figure it out. So keep arguing runner or not runner blah, blah, blah if you want. But the League has made it plain that they are committed to stopping the head hunting and any player that continues to try and crack coconuts with his helmet is going to suffer. And I will have no sympathy for the players that simply refuse to see the writing on the wall.

Fine. Just suspend ALL of the players guilty of multiple helmet-to-helmet infractions (Ray Lewis) rather than one stupid enough to criticize the commissioner (Harrison).

- It is not just my experience with rugby, it is the same with world class rugby where players are big enough and fast enough to reasonably compare them to NFL players. - This is not a Harrison witch hunt. The League has made it clear that they want the helmet as a weapon hits to stop and Harrison is one of the players that seems committed to continuing to try and find a way to get away with it. He knows full well what he is doing and so do you. At some point players and some fans are going to have to realize that the NFL and many of the other fans do not want that type of hit in football. In Harrison vs the NFL the NFL is going to win. Make excuses, try and find gray area in the rules, do whatever you like but the reality is that those types of hits are eventually going to become extremely rare and the cost of making those hits increases. It is the same as the crack-back block(below the waist), horse-collar and many other types of hits that the NFL has decided present too much injury risk to allow.

 

[Jagov]

That was my favorite play of the game! McCoy should have known better after getting pummeled by Harrison last year as well. He would have been better off rolling up in a fetal position than throwing that half-hearted, sissy pass. He got what he deserved. We won't see him taking off with the ball tucked away any time soon!

I want an angry James Harrison on my team. I want him hitting the field each week with bad intentions in his mind. I want him hurting the players on the other team. This gives the Steelers a better chance to win. I was weaned on the likes of Greene, Lambert, Holmes, White, Shell and Blount. These were warriors who went out, did battle with the other team and did their best to beat the spirit out of the opponent. THIS is the football I want to see. I am not alone in this but each year my kind lose more ground to Roger Greed-hole and his puppets.

I do not think he should be fined or suspended. I think he will get both of them though.

And he will be an animal on fire when he returns!

 

[Wadsworth]

i shouldnt even have to say it but rugby is a completely different game

It is. And there are plenty of brutal hits, just no one using there helmet as a weapon to try and injure opposing players. The rugby comparison should not even have to be made. It should be obvious to anyone paying attention that the hit Harrison made was not accidental due the speed of the game or some fluke occurrence. Harrison lined up McCoy and tried to knock him out. I only bring up rugby to refute the ridiculous argument that the game is too fast to stop these kinds of hits. Obviously these kinds of hits almost never happen in a similar sport were the players do not wear helmets so it is clearly possible.

Go google "Rugby" and "Concussions".

You know you can get a concussion without another player intentionally hitting you in the head with his head, right? And head to head hits happen in rugby accidentally in the course of normal play and sometimes they punch/kick/bite/head-butt each other, but one player intentionally going head to head with force to another player is extremely rare for obvious reasons. Rugby is a brutal sport with frequent injuries. So is football. The difference is that in football the helmet can be used as a hardened plastic weapon to injure the opponent intentionally with potential life long consequence. I have a hard time understanding why any reasonable person would argue that that type of hit should not be targeted for removal from the game. I personally do not enjoy watching that type of hit even if it is a player on my team delivering the blow.

 

[Wadsworth]

That was my favorite play of the game! McCoy should have known better after getting pummeled by Harrison last year as well. He would have been better off rolling up in a fetal position than throwing that half-hearted, sissy pass. He got what he deserved. We won't see him taking off with the ball tucked away any time soon!I want an angry James Harrison on my team. I want him hitting the field each week with bad intentions in his mind. I want him hurting the players on the other team. This gives the Steelers a better chance to win. I was weaned on the likes of Greene, Lambert, Holmes, White, Shell and Blount. These were warriors who went out, did battle with the other team and did their best to beat the spirit out of the opponent. THIS is the football I want to see. I am not alone in this but each year my kind lose more ground to Roger Greed-hole and his puppets.I do not think he should be fined or suspended. I think he will get both of them though.And he will be an animal on fire when he returns!

I think you accurately present one side of the argument.EDIT: And I agree that in that situation Harrison should light up McCoy and make him think about it the next time he decides to scramble. I disagree that he should drop his head and use his helmet to try and knock McCoy out. Harrison could have delivered a viscous, yet clearly legal hit to McCoy.