Should there be a Men's Rights movement? (1 Viewer)

[NCCommish]

Because when the judge gives the woman default custody even though the child has slept in the bed every night until she was three, the wife never has sex with the husband, and then the woman spoils the child against her own father -- including and up to telling her she is in a special coven of withces -- until the child is miserable to him and his family, then yeah, I think it's time to re-think the default position.

Yeah because men never do any of those things. Only those evil women. Pathetic.

 

[Insein]

Nobody has even acknowledged the OP's articles he used to support his point.

So wait, are toy AAAALLstars too?

 

[rockaction]

Because when the judge gives the woman default custody even though the child has slept in the bed every night until she was three, the wife never has sex with the husband, and then the woman spoils the child against her own father -- including and up to telling her she is in a special coven of withces -- until the child is miserable to him and his family, then yeah, I think it's time to re-think the default position.

Yeah because men never do any of those things. Only those evil women. Pathetic.

So we shouldn't have recourse and the default position should lie with the women? How about true equality, which would be joint custody? What cements feminism more than true equality?

 

[Peyton Marino]

Because when someone is on campus and they're kicked out for drunken sex due to federal Title IX regulations that place default blame *of retrospective rape claims * on the man, there certainly is a need for a stronger women's movement on campus, at least, if not government agency and legislation.

Jeez, started to think the temperance movement died or something. Hallelujah! It's back for all of our own good!

Serious question, how exactly were your friends raped?

Hard-ons while passed out drunk. One got raped by a campus feminist who no longer was one after it happened.

The other was my [ ] -- can't reveal that, but we were close -- he was a good-lookin' kid, as Damone from Fast Times would say. I'd tell more, but really, it's not my place. I don't know why I got sucked into the anecdotal nature of this.

Neither lodged a complaint.

This is very true.

I'm all for equal treatment of these crimes for both sexes, I just don't think the sort of thing is as big of a problem for men as it is for women. I guess that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve some attention from a man's point of view, but it just seems silly to me to suggest we need a movement. As people have suggested, the everyday lives of men is essentially a movement in their favor. I'm sorry I offended you with my cavalier dismissal of the issue. I was really curious what people would come up with and what shiznitt posted was mostly terrible imo.

 

[rockaction]

Because when someone is on campus and they're kicked out for drunken sex due to federal Title IX regulations that place default blame *of retrospective rape claims * on the man, there certainly is a need for a stronger women's movement on campus, at least, if not government agency and legislation.

Jeez, started to think the temperance movement died or something. Hallelujah! It's back for all of our own good!

Serious question, how exactly were your friends raped?

Hard-ons while passed out drunk. One got raped by a campus feminist who no longer was one after it happened.

The other was my [ ] -- can't reveal that, but we were close -- he was a good-lookin' kid, as Damone from Fast Times would say. I'd tell more, but really, it's not my place. I don't know why I got sucked into the anecdotal nature of this.

Neither lodged a complaint.

This is very true.

I'm all for equal treatment of these crimes for both sexes, I just don't think the sort of thing is as big of a problem for men as it is for women. I guess that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve some attention from a man's point of view, but it just seems silly to me to suggest we need a movement. As people have suggested, the everyday lives of men is essentially a movement in their favor.I'm sorry I offended you with my cavalier dismissal of the issue. I was really curious what people would come up with and what shiznitt posted was mostly terrible imo.

As for the bolded: I take no offense, and also used to think this. Without doubt. I don't think it's true anymore, but that's me. One of the victims of these crimes was very, very upset. I've personally been battered three times, and I can remember all of them (hey, once upon a time…)

As for the italicized: I don't believe so anymore. Legally, your choices are very constrained. The numbers don't add up. We die quicker. Family law is stacked against us. We now go to college and get graduate degrees less blah blah blah. It's gotten so bad that Britain has declared the state of their boys a national emergency. Susan Faludi (remember her???) even wrote a book in the nineties about the Rust Belt and the death of masculine labor.

In many ways, and I'm in no way coherent enough to do it tonight, the men in this country are getting the shaft legally, emotionally, and economically, and have been since the '80s.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Because when someone is on campus and they're kicked out for drunken sex due to federal Title IX regulations that place default blame *of retrospective rape claims * on the man, there certainly is a need for a stronger women's movement on campus, at least, if not government agency and legislation.

Jeez, started to think the temperance movement died or something. Hallelujah! It's back for all of our own good!

Serious question, how exactly were your friends raped?

Hard-ons while passed out drunk. One got raped by a campus feminist who no longer was one after it happened.

The other was my [ ] -- can't reveal that, but we were close -- he was a good-lookin' kid, as Damone from Fast Times would say. I'd tell more, but really, it's not my place. I don't know why I got sucked into the anecdotal nature of this.

Neither lodged a complaint.

This is very true.

eta* Whoops. That sounds like he was my boyfriend or something. That's inaccurate. Sheesh.

Dude, get some help. Your last few posts, regardless of topic, have made little to no sense. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying your posts are close to gibberish and I'm worried about your health.

 

[rockaction]

Because when someone is on campus and they're kicked out for drunken sex due to federal Title IX regulations that place default blame *of retrospective rape claims * on the man, there certainly is a need for a stronger women's movement on campus, at least, if not government agency and legislation.

Jeez, started to think the temperance movement died or something. Hallelujah! It's back for all of our own good!

Serious question, how exactly were your friends raped?

Hard-ons while passed out drunk. One got raped by a campus feminist who no longer was one after it happened.

The other was my [ ] -- can't reveal that, but we were close -- he was a good-lookin' kid, as Damone from Fast Times would say. I'd tell more, but really, it's not my place. I don't know why I got sucked into the anecdotal nature of this.

Neither lodged a complaint.

This is very true.

eta* Whoops. That sounds like he was my boyfriend or something. That's inaccurate. Sheesh.

Dude, get some help. Your last few posts, regardless of topic, have made little to no sense. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying your posts are close to gibberish and I'm worried about your health.

Huh? I had friends get raped while passed-out drunk. They were close to me, but I don't want to reveal how they were close on a message board. This is confusing?

I don't think anybody is confused about my position on this, nor the story. It's not gibberish.

They got raped, son. Dead on, passed out, **** hard, woman on top raped.

Is that clear?

 

[rockaction]

Also, there's no way you agree with my position. Everybody else completely understands what I'm saying. Your point goes to Thomas Szasz and the medicalization of all things dissent.

If you don't get that reference, or if it confuses you, you can Google it, dude.

 

[Jayrod]

Because when the judge gives the woman default custody even though the child has slept in the bed every night until she was three, the wife never has sex with the husband, and then the woman spoils the child against her own father -- including and up to telling her she is in a special coven of withces -- until the child is miserable to him and his family, then yeah, I think it's time to re-think the default position.

What in the heck are you saying here? So many typos and a run-on sentence that just reads like a crazy rambling.

 

[rockaction]

Because when the judge gives the woman default custody even though the child has slept in the bed every night until she was three, the wife never has sex with the husband, and then the woman spoils the child against her own father -- including and up to telling her she is in a special coven of withces -- until the child is miserable to him and his family, then yeah, I think it's time to re-think the default position.

What in the heck are you saying here? So many typos and a run-on sentence that just reads like a crazy rambling.

There's nothing run-on about it. Sorry.

 

[Jayrod]

Because when the judge gives the woman default custody even though the child has slept in the bed every night until she was three, the wife never has sex with the husband, and then the woman spoils the child against her own father -- including and up to telling her she is in a special coven of withces -- until the child is miserable to him and his family, then yeah, I think it's time to re-think the default position.

What in the heck are you saying here? So many typos and a run-on sentence that just reads like a crazy rambling.

There's nothing run-on about it. Sorry.

It's a paragraph made up of one sentence.

 

[rockaction]

Because when the judge gives the woman default custody even though the child has slept in the bed every night until she was three, the wife never has sex with the husband, and then the woman spoils the child against her own father -- including and up to telling her she is in a special coven of withces -- until the child is miserable to him and his family, then yeah, I think it's time to re-think the default position.

What in the heck are you saying here? So many typos and a run-on sentence that just reads like a crazy rambling.

There's nothing run-on about it. Sorry.

It's a paragraph made up of one sentence.

Doesn't matter. And there are no typos, either. I'm not sure you understand grammar nor meaning.

Stick to evangelism, GB. It's what the feminists do.

 

[popsecret]

All of history has pretty much been a Men's rights movement.

Going from one extreme to the next isn't the right move either.It seems that is how we do things around here.

The middle ground is a nice place, we should try to go there more often.

Get back to me when the pervasive view, in society and the law, is men are essentially property for their wives to do with as they please. Or when men are having their sex organs mutilated and being committed to institutions because they are depressed.Then we will have swung from one extreme to the other.

Did you miss the part where he asked for middle ground?

No I didn't miss what you said. But here's the thing whiny. We aren't even close to middle ground now. And all this stupid mens right talks is just code for we want the 50's back. Well that ship sailed so get over it.

Didn't the economy improve by 20 percent from the 50s to the 70s? Read that somewhere, just curious.

Anyways, I would say we are passed middle ground and women definitely have an advantage over men and unless people speak up about it and complain it will only get worse.

Middle ground please, that means we as a society don't give women a pass for molesting a boy when they are a teacher.

That means we as a society don't always let women win every divorce.

That means we as a society don't laugh at men that get raped

Those women go to jail who have sex with a 17 year old boy some of us would say he was within his rights to get some why do you hate men? I know plenty of men who "won" their divorce maybe get better lawyers. And very few men get raped. According to the CDC the number is less than 5% men raped by women. Male on male rape is too under reported to get good numbers but it happens. Now on the other hand 20% of women have been raped or attempted to be raped by men.

Across a wide range of jurisdictions the estimates are that mothers receive primary custody 68-88% of the time, fathers receive primary custody 8-14%, and equal residential custody is awarded in only 2-6% of the cases.

men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do.

As far as the rape, you aren't understanding my point. I never meant men get raped more often, I meant when a man gets raped it isn't treated as delicate as when a female gets raped. That is unacceptable.

Scary

 

[Sabertooth]

I have no problem with paternity being established at birth. Not sure of a good reason not to do that. I had a friend who raised a kid for 5 or 6 years before finding out he was not the child's father. Then he wasn't allowed any custody of the child. So he went from raising two boys by himself to raising one. And the two brothers went from being with one another all the time to half the time (he thought he had two kids with this woman, turned out it was just the one).

 

[igbomb]

I agree that the custody issue in this country is definitely slanted against men. The default should absolutely be joint.

But most of these others are just searching for little niches where men think they have it worse. Men still make more money, get promoted more often, etc. By and large, this is a man's country and we have it much easier than the women.

But hey, the draft, which hasn't occurred since the 70s, only includes men. How unfair. And give me a break on the rape crap.

 

[rockaction]

I agree that the custody issue in this country is definitely slanted against men. The default should absolutely be joint.

But most of these others are just searching for little niches where men think they have it worse. Men still make more money, get promoted more often, etc. By and large, this is a man's country and we have it much easier than the women.

But hey, the draft, which hasn't occurred since the 70s, only includes men. How unfair. And give me a break on the rape crap.

I agree with most of what you're saying, and would think it was stupid, too, if not for the last part. I'm sure it's different for men and women, but I've seen some really weird consequences come from female sexual battery.

Not even trying to play the victim card. It happens. Men get molested, and raped, and all sorts of battered. Women do messed up stuff when the law is advantageous.

 

[igbomb]

I agree that the custody issue in this country is definitely slanted against men. The default should absolutely be joint.

But most of these others are just searching for little niches where men think they have it worse. Men still make more money, get promoted more often, etc. By and large, this is a man's country and we have it much easier than the women.

But hey, the draft, which hasn't occurred since the 70s, only includes men. How unfair. And give me a break on the rape crap.

I agree with most of what you're saying, and would think it was stupid, too, if not for the last part. I'm sure it's different for men and women, but I've seen some really weird consequences come from female sexual battery.

Not even trying to play the victim card. It happens. Men get molested, and raped, and all sorts of battered. Women do messed up stuff when the law is advantageous.

I wouldn't argue that men haven't been unfairly treated. Anecdotes exist and bad stuff happens. But the first post tries to frame it as if rape is as big an issue (or bigger) for men than it is for women. And that is a ludicrous assertion.

 

[rockaction]

I agree that the custody issue in this country is definitely slanted against men. The default should absolutely be joint.

But most of these others are just searching for little niches where men think they have it worse. Men still make more money, get promoted more often, etc. By and large, this is a man's country and we have it much easier than the women.

But hey, the draft, which hasn't occurred since the 70s, only includes men. How unfair. And give me a break on the rape crap.

I agree with most of what you're saying, and would think it was stupid, too, if not for the last part. I'm sure it's different for men and women, but I've seen some really weird consequences come from female sexual battery.

Not even trying to play the victim card. It happens. Men get molested, and raped, and all sorts of battered. Women do messed up stuff when the law is advantageous.

I wouldn't argue that men haven't been unfairly treated. Anecdotes exist and bad stuff happens. But the first post tries to frame it as if rape is as big an issue (or bigger) for men than it is for women. And that is a ludicrous assertion.

Yeah, I don't agree with that, either. I think the physically dominant sex has more to say about how it plays out, frankly. My two anecdotes were drunk dudes passed out. I'm not down with playing the victim or any other trite silliness.

I will say this, though: I'm worried about the codification of victim status into law when all available evidence points to the contrary. I'm also about gender and sex equality when it comes to family law. Those are my concerns.

 

[AAAll-Stars]

So this got interesting.

IMO, the whole point of a Men's Rights movement is to work HAND IN HAND with Feminists. It's about them communicating men's thoughts, ideas and issues to them to give context and to help them do a better job. Conversely, the Men's Rights movement should get ideas, thoughts and hear of the issues of Feminists to better help rally men to support inequality with women.

Two major things.

NCCommish's quick dismissal shows a major road block to this issue. I agree that all of history has been wildly male dominated and women were treated like property. But this idea that it won't swing into another direction is naive at best. Right now, the majority of the workforce and college students are women. Heck, there are already people talking about The End of Men. I mean, people are openly saying things like "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women?".

If a guy said that about men, they would be nuked and deservedly so. But this hard push behind Feminism causes people to get caught up in the excitement of "we're making history!" when we should be constantly self-critical about everything we do and say.

Listen, women are getting screwed over in many different aspects of society. Any man who says that is nuts and the job of the Men's Rights movement should be working with Feminists to make everyone feel like we're all doing the right thing.

​The second major thing is the movement attracts crazies. Popsecret and Eminence, I know you guys are trying but you both have a history of some screwed up stuff and having you along will make for one short ride. And sadly for a lot of men, it's not about equality but about scoring points on the other person. The whole point of any movement is to find a reasonable objective and to want to make sure that you take care to include movements that you might think would be in opposition.

The MR movement needs to happen. But it should only exist in the context of working with Feminism to find true equality. Now the definition of equality and what the truly means is something that I'm still meditating on.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Bottom line is no movement (men , women, black, brown, gay, etc.) is about equality. If it was about equality they could all be part of a singular movement. They use equality as a means to advance their agenda.

 

[popsecret]

So this got interesting.

IMO, the whole point of a Men's Rights movement is to work HAND IN HAND with Feminists. It's about them communicating men's thoughts, ideas and issues to them to give context and to help them do a better job. Conversely, the Men's Rights movement should get ideas, thoughts and hear of the issues of Feminists to better help rally men to support inequality with women.

Two major things.

NCCommish's quick dismissal shows a major road block to this issue. I agree that all of history has been wildly male dominated and women were treated like property. But this idea that it won't swing into another direction is naive at best. Right now, the majority of the workforce and college students are women. Heck, there are already people talking about The End of Men. I mean, people are openly saying things like "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women?".

If a guy said that about men, they would be nuked and deservedly so. But this hard push behind Feminism causes people to get caught up in the excitement of "we're making history!" when we should be constantly self-critical about everything we do and say.

Listen, women are getting screwed over in many different aspects of society. Any man who says that is nuts and the job of the Men's Rights movement should be working with Feminists to make everyone feel like we're all doing the right thing.

​The second major thing is the movement attracts crazies. Popsecret and Eminence, I know you guys are trying but you both have a history of some screwed up stuff and having you along will make for one short ride. And sadly for a lot of men, it's not about equality but about scoring points on the other person. The whole point of any movement is to find a reasonable objective and to want to make sure that you take care to include movements that you might think would be in opposition.

The MR movement needs to happen. But it should only exist in the context of working with Feminism to find true equality. Now the definition of equality and what the truly means is something that I'm still meditating on.

I really don't care if you think I am crazy but to call Eminence crazy after his history of depression is just mean spirited beyond belief.

I don't need an apology but you owe one to Eminence.

 

[Ilov80s]

I've gone over this in another thread. I was raped. She was pretty good looking too, nice big ####. It wasn't a big deal. It makes me smile thinking about it.

 

[Jayrod]

Because when the judge gives the woman default custody even though the child has slept in the bed every night until she was three, the wife never has sex with the husband, and then the woman spoils the child against her own father -- including and up to telling her she is in a special coven of withces -- until the child is miserable to him and his family, then yeah, I think it's time to re-think the default position.

What in the heck are you saying here? So many typos and a run-on sentence that just reads like a crazy rambling.

There's nothing run-on about it. Sorry.

It's a paragraph made up of one sentence.

Doesn't matter. And there are no typos, either. I'm not sure you understand grammar nor meaning.

Stick to evangelism, GB. It's what the feminists do.

Oh, my bad. Can you please explain then what "withces" are because I'm not familiar with them.

And sick burn, brah.

 

[Ilov80s]

Jay is no feminist. He wrestles gayness so he can get a handle on it.

 

[Jayrod]

Jay is no feminist. He wrestles gayness so he can get a handle on it.

I'll wrestle you, big boy.

 

[jonessed]

Child custody is a big issue that men get hosed on.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Child custody is a big issue that men get hosed on.

The reason men get "hosed" is that they rarely ask for sole custody and readily agree to give up custodial parenthood.

How Custody is Decided:

According to DivorcePeers.com the majority of child custody cases are not decided by the courts. In 51% of the cases both parents agreed that mom be the custodial parent. In 29% of the cases the decision was made without any third party involvement. Only 11% of custody cases were decided during mediation with as few as 5% being decided after court order custody evaluations.

In cases where both parents decided, without involvement from a mediator or the court 83% of the time the mother ended up with custody because the father chose to give her custody.

ETA:

More Fathers Are Getting Custody in Divorce

Working Mother Magazine published a package of articles on Tuesday called “Lost Custody,” about the new reality of divorce and child custody for working mothers.

It is filled with tales of women who were the primary earners in a marriage, and who watched their husbands gain primary physical custody of their children when the marriage ended. There are now 2.2 million divorced women in the United States who do not have primary physical custody of their children, and an estimated 50 percent of fathers who seek such custody in a disputed divorce are granted it.

As the writer Sally Abrahms describes it:

Not long ago, men usually paid the child support and doled out the alimony. Moms (working or not) almost always got the kids in messy divorce wars. Years of changing diapers, wiping noses and kissing boo-boos gave them the edge. But now the tide is turning.

The “tender-years doctrine,” a court presumption that mothers are the more suitable parents for children under 7, was abolished in most states in 1994. And, in large part because of the recession, women are poised to outnumber men in the work force for the first time in American history. Job layoffs affecting more men than women have yielded a burgeoning crop of Mr. Moms.

“Men are now able to argue that they spend more time with the kids than their working wives do,” says the veteran New York City divorce attorney Raoul Felder. “This is one of the dark sides of women’s accomplishments in the workplace — they’re getting a raw deal in custody cases, while men are being viewed more favorably.”

...

 

[jonessed]

Child custody is a big issue that men get hosed on.

The reason men get "hosed" is that they rarely ask for sole custody and readily agree to give up custodial parenthood.



How Custody is Decided:

According to DivorcePeers.com the majority of child custody cases are not decided by the courts. In 51% of the cases both parents agreed that mom be the custodial parent. In 29% of the cases the decision was made without any third party involvement. Only 11% of custody cases were decided during mediation with as few as 5% being decided after court order custody evaluations.

In cases where both parents decided, without involvement from a mediator or the court 83% of the time the mother ended up with custody because the father chose to give her custody.

Your link shows that 29% of men want to give up custody. That seems to contradict the idea that men readily give up custodial parenting.

Only the court data would really apply to my comment where 44% of the time the father gets no custody at all.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Child custody is a big issue that men get hosed on.

The reason men get "hosed" is that they rarely ask for sole custody and readily agree to give up custodial parenthood.

How Custody is Decided:

According to DivorcePeers.com the majority of child custody cases are not decided by the courts. In 51% of the cases both parents agreed that mom be the custodial parent. In 29% of the cases the decision was made without any third party involvement. Only 11% of custody cases were decided during mediation with as few as 5% being decided after court order custody evaluations.

In cases where both parents decided, without involvement from a mediator or the court 83% of the time the mother ended up with custody because the father chose to give her custody.

Only the court data would really apply to my comment.

Your link shows that only 29% of men want to give up custody (and obviously 0% of those that go to court over it).

Yea, totally disregard the fact that parents settle child custody issues out of the courts and men frequently give up custodial rights...works to fit your argument better.

 

[Eminence]

So this got interesting.

IMO, the whole point of a Men's Rights movement is to work HAND IN HAND with Feminists. It's about them communicating men's thoughts, ideas and issues to them to give context and to help them do a better job. Conversely, the Men's Rights movement should get ideas, thoughts and hear of the issues of Feminists to better help rally men to support inequality with women.

Two major things.

NCCommish's quick dismissal shows a major road block to this issue. I agree that all of history has been wildly male dominated and women were treated like property. But this idea that it won't swing into another direction is naive at best. Right now, the majority of the workforce and college students are women. Heck, there are already people talking about The End of Men. I mean, people are openly saying things like "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women?".

If a guy said that about men, they would be nuked and deservedly so. But this hard push behind Feminism causes people to get caught up in the excitement of "we're making history!" when we should be constantly self-critical about everything we do and say.

Listen, women are getting screwed over in many different aspects of society. Any man who says that is nuts and the job of the Men's Rights movement should be working with Feminists to make everyone feel like we're all doing the right thing.

​The second major thing is the movement attracts crazies. Popsecret and Eminence, I know you guys are trying but you both have a history of some screwed up stuff and having you along will make for one short ride. And sadly for a lot of men, it's not about equality but about scoring points on the other person. The whole point of any movement is to find a reasonable objective and to want to make sure that you take care to include movements that you might think would be in opposition.

The MR movement needs to happen. But it should only exist in the context of working with Feminism to find true equality. Now the definition of equality and what the truly means is something that I'm still meditating on.

I really don't care if you think I am crazy but to call Eminence crazy after his history of depression is just mean spirited beyond belief.

I don't need an apology but you owe one to Eminence.

Woah, woah, woah.

So first I'm a crazy and now I've got a history of depression? What's next? Do I have hooks for hands? You guys are so not cool. Hilarious accusations consider neither of you have ever spoke to me in person. Let me clue you in Jack, I am the definition of a winner and each day I move closer and closer to all of my goals.

If you're trying to build credibility for your cause, you're not going to get very far calling me a crazy son. If anything, you just proved to me how foolish you are.

 

[jonessed]

Child custody is a big issue that men get hosed on.

The reason men get "hosed" is that they rarely ask for sole custody and readily agree to give up custodial parenthood.

How Custody is Decided:

According to DivorcePeers.comhttp://www.divorcepeers.com/stats18.htm the majority of child custody cases are not decided by the courts. In 51% of the cases both parents agreed that mom be the custodial parent. In 29% of the cases the decision was made without any third party involvement. Only 11% of custody cases were decided during mediation with as few as 5% being decided after court order custody evaluations.

In cases where both parents decided, without involvement from a mediator or the court 83% of the time the mother ended up with custody because the father chose to give her custody.

Only the court data would really apply to my comment.Your link shows that only 29% of men want to give up custody (and obviously 0% of those that go to court over it).

Yea, totally disregard the fact that parents settle child custody issues out of the courts and men frequently give up custodial rights...works to fit your argument better.

Only 29% of men want to give up custody, but they lose in courts by a 4:1 margin. If the majority are settling out of court to give up custody it's not because they want to, it's because they don't fare well in the courts.

It's right there in your data.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Child custody is a big issue that men get hosed on.

The reason men get "hosed" is that they rarely ask for sole custody and readily agree to give up custodial parenthood.

How Custody is Decided:

According to DivorcePeers.com the majority of child custody cases are not decided by the courts. In 51% of the cases both parents agreed that mom be the custodial parent. In 29% of the cases the decision was made without any third party involvement. Only 11% of custody cases were decided during mediation with as few as 5% being decided after court order custody evaluations.

In cases where both parents decided, without involvement from a mediator or the court 83% of the time the mother ended up with custody because the father chose to give her custody.

Only the court data would really apply to my comment.Your link shows that only 29% of men want to give up custody (and obviously 0% of those that go to court over it).

Yea, totally disregard the fact that parents settle child custody issues out of the courts and men frequently give up custodial rights...works to fit your argument better.

Only 29% of men want to give up custody, but they lose in courts by a 4:1 margin. If the majority are settling out of court to give up custody it's not because they want to, it's because they don't fare well in the courts.

It's right there in your data.

In over 50% of divorces, parents agreed on custodial rights without court action...men came to the table and GAVE UP their custodial rights. This was voluntary, without court action.

 

[jonessed]

Child custody is a big issue that men get hosed on.

The reason men get "hosed" is that they rarely ask for sole custody and readily agree to give up custodial parenthood.

How Custody is Decided:

According to DivorcePeers.comhttp://www.divorcepeers.com/stats18.htm the majority of child custody cases are not decided by the courts. In 51% of the cases both parents agreed that mom be the custodial parent. In 29% of the cases the decision was made without any third party involvement. Only 11% of custody cases were decided during mediation with as few as 5% being decided after court order custody evaluations.

In cases where both parents decided, without involvement from a mediator or the court 83% of the time the mother ended up with custody because the father chose to give her custody.

Only the court data would really apply to my comment.Your link shows that only 29% of men want to give up custody (and obviously 0% of those that go to court over it).

Yea, totally disregard the fact that parents settle child custody issues out of the courts and men frequently give up custodial rights...works to fit your argument better.

Only 29% of men want to give up custody, but they lose in courts by a 4:1 margin. If the majority are settling out of court to give up custody it's not because they want to, it's because they don't fare well in the courts.It's right there in your data.

In over 50% of divorces, parents agreed on custodial rights without court action...men came to the table and GAVE UP their custodial rights. This was voluntary, without court action.

Some obviously did. I imagine some women did as well.

Only 29% of men want to give up custodial rights in a divorce, but over 40% of the time they fight for it they end up with nothing. That's pretty crappy odds.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Here's a stat for you pathetic MRM folks: The new Congress this year is 80% male and 80% white.

Oh those poor men.

 

[Ilov80s]

Jay is no feminist. He wrestles gayness so he can get a handle on it.

I'll wrestle you, big boy.

Go men!

 

[MaxThreshold]

Here's a stat for you pathetic MRM folks: The new Congress this year is 80% male and 80% white.

Oh those poor men.

How did we get screwed out of the other 20%? WTF?

 

[jonessed]

Here's a stat for you pathetic MRM folks: The new Congress this year is 80% male and 80% white.

Oh those poor men.

How did we get screwed out of the other 20%? WTF?

Women are racist.

 

[Ignoramus]

Everybody is now a victim. Everyone has an excuse to not succeed.

"Mens' Rights"

Yeah, it's so difficult for us men these days.

 

[proninja]

Haven't we lived in the men's right's movement for pretty much all of recorded history? Or am I missing the one example of a matriarchal society that was oppressive toward men?

 

[Niles Standish]

One thing that seems off is if you have a son and a daughter your daughter is 50% more likely to go to college than your son. I know college isn't everything, but it's a pretty good indicator of future success.

 

[igbomb]

If you feel like as a white male you've gotten a raw deal in this country BECAUSE you're a white male, you have seriously messed up. Being a white guy in America, I have about as big a head start as you can imagine. The day I blame my problems on minorities and/or women, I hope someone close to me is there to slap the crap out of me.

 

[rockaction]

Yep, this discussion seems typically feminist.

Dismissal of rape and battery by women. Check.

Useless citations toward representative make-up of government. Check.

Painting the intellectual positions of your opponents as crazy. Check.

Temperance movement and evangelicals checking in. Check.

We've got the idiot left (Lutherman2112, who Godwinned the thread) and the evangelical right (Jayrod the porn aficionado) working together to ensure us all that the proper and personal result is being reached. Working well.

I'm convinced more than ever there's time for a movement.

 

[popsecret]

So this got interesting.

IMO, the whole point of a Men's Rights movement is to work HAND IN HAND with Feminists. It's about them communicating men's thoughts, ideas and issues to them to give context and to help them do a better job. Conversely, the Men's Rights movement should get ideas, thoughts and hear of the issues of Feminists to better help rally men to support inequality with women.

Two major things.

NCCommish's quick dismissal shows a major road block to this issue. I agree that all of history has been wildly male dominated and women were treated like property. But this idea that it won't swing into another direction is naive at best. Right now, the majority of the workforce and college students are women. Heck, there are already people talking about The End of Men. I mean, people are openly saying things like "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women?".

If a guy said that about men, they would be nuked and deservedly so. But this hard push behind Feminism causes people to get caught up in the excitement of "we're making history!" when we should be constantly self-critical about everything we do and say.

Listen, women are getting screwed over in many different aspects of society. Any man who says that is nuts and the job of the Men's Rights movement should be working with Feminists to make everyone feel like we're all doing the right thing.

​The second major thing is the movement attracts crazies. Popsecret and Eminence, I know you guys are trying but you both have a history of some screwed up stuff and having you along will make for one short ride. And sadly for a lot of men, it's not about equality but about scoring points on the other person. The whole point of any movement is to find a reasonable objective and to want to make sure that you take care to include movements that you might think would be in opposition.

The MR movement needs to happen. But it should only exist in the context of working with Feminism to find true equality. Now the definition of equality and what the truly means is something that I'm still meditating on.

I really don't care if you think I am crazy but to call Eminence crazy after his history of depression is just mean spirited beyond belief.

I don't need an apology but you owe one to Eminence.

Woah, woah, woah.

So first I'm a crazy and now I've got a history of depression? What's next? Do I have hooks for hands? You guys are so not cool. Hilarious accusations consider neither of you have ever spoke to me in person. Let me clue you in Jack, I am the definition of a winner and each day I move closer and closer to all of my goals.

If you're trying to build credibility for your cause, you're not going to get very far calling me a crazy son. If anything, you just proved to me how foolish you are.

I didn't mean anything bad by it. I just know there was a time you were considering killing yourself and thats what I meant by a history of depression. I am glad you are in a good place, but with that said it still isn't cool for him to call you crazy.

 

[rockaction]

Because when the judge gives the woman default custody even though the child has slept in the bed every night until she was three, the wife never has sex with the husband, and then the woman spoils the child against her own father -- including and up to telling her she is in a special coven of withces -- until the child is miserable to him and his family, then yeah, I think it's time to re-think the default position.

What in the heck are you saying here? So many typos and a run-on sentence that just reads like a crazy rambling.

There's nothing run-on about it. Sorry.

It's a paragraph made up of one sentence.

Doesn't matter. And there are no typos, either. I'm not sure you understand grammar nor meaning.

Stick to evangelism, GB. It's what the feminists do.

Oh, my bad. Can you please explain then what "withces" are because I'm not familiar with them.

And sick burn, brah.

I guess "withces" are the things you don't drown in the river because they don't float.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Tim Allen put it best "Men are pigs. I think we can all agree on that. It's just too damn bad we own everything."

 

[Ignoramus]

One thing that seems off is if you have a son and a daughter your daughter is 50% more likely to go to college than your son. I know college isn't everything, but it's a pretty good indicator of future success.

That must be why women earn so much more than men and occupy so many more positions of power and government.

 

[jonessed]

One thing that seems off is if you have a son and a daughter your daughter is 50% more likely to go to college than your son. I know college isn't everything, but it's a pretty good indicator of future success.

That must be why women earn so much more than men and occupy so many more positions of power and government.

How does a relatively recent college trend relate at all to positions of power in government and industry that are still largely held by Baby Boomers?

 

[TheAristocrat]

7MNJv L54XV98Y7UFIH KJFR NBMT5 4W35TCUFDYGZXVCT 6YGU HJBMN RT5RT43Q

Bring the kilos.

 

[tdoss]

One thing that seems off is if you have a son and a daughter your daughter is 50% more likely to go to college than your son. I know college isn't everything, but it's a pretty good indicator of future success.

That must be why women earn so much more than men and occupy so many more positions of power and government.

How does a relatively recent college trend relate at all to positions of power in government and industry that are still largely held by Baby Boomers?

And I'm not sure if those "women make 77 cents on the dollar compared to men" campaigns of late take into account that women take maternity leave, do far less overtime (I've seen numbers as high as 90% of all overtime is done by men) and usually take jobs that pay less. The top ten most remunerated majors are dominated by men...even though women seem to be taking over college:

1. Petroleum Engineering: 87% male

2. Pharmacy Pharmaceutical Sciences and Administration: 48% male

3. Mathematics and Computer Science: 67% male

4. Aerospace Engineering: 88% male

5. Chemical Engineering: 72% male

6. Electrical Engineering: 89% male

7. Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering: 97% male

8. Mechanical Engineering: 90% male

9. Metallurgical Engineering: 83% male

10. Mining and Mineral Engineering: 90% male

Top Ten LEAST remunerative majors? You guessed it...DOMINATED by women:

1. Counseling Psychology: 74% female

2. Early Childhood Education: 97% female

3. Theology and Religious Vocations: 34% female

4. Human Services and Community Organization: 81% female

5. Social Work: 88% female

6. Drama and Theater Arts: 60% female

7. Studio Arts: 66% female

8. Communication Disorders Sciences and Services: 94% female

9. Visual and Performing Arts: 77% female

10. Health and Medical Preparatory Programs: 55% female

[SIZE=15.5555562973022px]As for government positions...is there some law I'm unaware of that stops women from running for office or blocking people from voting for those women? Should we just plug some into positions of office just to make up for it?[/SIZE]

 

[tdoss]

Almost every chronic illness affects men more often than women.

Of the top 15 leading causes of death...men lead in 12 categories, tie in 2 categories and trail in only 1. Based on some of that knowledge...the California Department of Health suggested the creation of a Men's Health Office...but it was never formed. Conversely, there are numerous Federal offices for Women's Health and similar offices at every level of government. Breast Cancer is a vacuum for Cancer research funds. The National Cancer Institute spent about four times more on breast cancer research than prostate cancer research for decades. All other sources, including the Dept. of Defense, fund breast cancer at far higher and disproportionate rates compared to prostate cancer. Maybe women are dying four times as much? Nope...about 39K die of breast cancer...30K men die of prostate cancer every year. But no teams are wearing brown jerseys or whatever alternative to pink in order to promote research for prostate cancer.

Equality is BS...it's just a token trotted out by whatever group in order to try to get an unfair advantage. People are up in arms in order to have women in the trenches...out there fighting alongside men...but those same groups aren't saying anything about including women in the Selective Service.