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SNL Skit - Roger Stone's Wife (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Before I answer, are we suggesting the joke is in bad taste because she has cancer or just in general?
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
NSFW but explains why this is a joke. The joke might be in bad taste but it is not out of left field.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6640233/Inside-Roger-Stones-swinging-marriage-posted-ads-online-frequented-sex-clubs.html
Frankly Stone qualifies as one of those "don't wish death but will gladly read the obituary" and anyone who is married to him isn't too far behind.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6640233/Inside-Roger-Stones-swinging-marriage-posted-ads-online-frequented-sex-clubs.html
Frankly Stone qualifies as one of those "don't wish death but will gladly read the obituary" and anyone who is married to him isn't too far behind.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I don’t know what “ok” means in this context.
The General
Footballguy
i wouldn’t have gotten the reference so this makes sense. Guy is a weird dude and loves any attention he can get.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Part of the irony is that Trump's 2016 election corresponds to a rise in the use of the word "cuck" in far right online circles as hate speech. While Stone (noted Trump advisor, pardoned by Trump for his crimes helping Trump) doesn't try too hard to conceal that he is one.
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2017/08/evolution-cuck-shows-different-far-right-groups-are-learning-same-language
Additionally, Che's use of this joke dates back a couple years. There's a solid 3 minutes on Stone in this Weekend Update including mentioning he was fired from the Dole campaign for the whole cuck controversy.
http://newmusictoday.blogspot.com/2019/01/roger-stone-is-cuck.html
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2017/08/evolution-cuck-shows-different-far-right-groups-are-learning-same-language
Additionally, Che's use of this joke dates back a couple years. There's a solid 3 minutes on Stone in this Weekend Update including mentioning he was fired from the Dole campaign for the whole cuck controversy.
http://newmusictoday.blogspot.com/2019/01/roger-stone-is-cuck.html
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Since it is their lifestyle, the joke seems fair. Not knowing the background, I thought it was not ok.
Context matters, however.
Context matters, however.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Roger Stone is a guy who has behaved toward others in a way that shouldn’t engender much sympathy.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
No problem with the joke in general although one angle is whether it's too over the top for SNL. I do give some caution to not make jokes at someones expense if they are dying of cancer. That's all I meant by the question, FTR.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I was somewhat aware of their lifestyle and do think that makes it fair game.
However, and I may be in the minority, but I err on the side of caution with someone who is sick and apparently dying.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Nydia Stone is a "civilian"
There has always been a general understanding that there are people who are inside the "game" and people who are not a part of it at all.
Run the hypothetical. Let's say you have Politician X who is outspoken about being Pro Life. Then it's discovered that Politician X's daughter had an abortion. The daughter has a separate life from her father. But since it can be used to smear the father, it runs in every major news outlet in the country. Let's say the daughter has a history of previous mental health issues. Now she's getting death threats, more than before, and now she's the subject of all types of harassment and abuse. So what happens then if she kills herself?
Chelsea Clinton as a student at Stanford was a "civilian" and is off limits, but once she got older and got her education and was a fully formed adult and worked for the Clinton Foundation ( feel free to pick a controversy here that drags it in the specter of being part of a large scale political criminal cartel) then she's part of the "game"
If you go after family members outside the game, you make all family members outside the game lose their informally understood immunity.
That's means ALL OF THEM. Whatever some of you think of Donald Trump, do you want to live in a modern media environment where Barron Trump is fair game at the age of 11 years old? How about then Malia Obama? Then Jenna Bush?
What someone will say next is SNL is a sketch comedy show and not part of the commonly accepted standard formal political "public square" Which is going to be some thin rope when Ronna McDaniel and RNC HQ decides to formulate their own "sketch" hatchet squad for some retaliation.
What is the "long con" here? Michael Haley is rank and file career military. If you can't go after Nikki "Teflon" Haley directly in 2024, then you have to go after her family. Her husband, her kids, her siblings, her parents. What the establishment Democrats want is to "normalize" this kind of targeting. And if anyone here thinks nearly all of Hollywood is not complicit as a propaganda arm for both the DNC and even the CCP, then OK, that's your opinion but that's going to be a hard sell.
In general, regarding the general media optics of the establishment Democrats and the radical left, I'm less offended by the savagery and more offended by the lack of skill. If you are going to be dirty and brutal and ruthless, then at least do it right. There's some guy in a basement creating fake OK Cupid profiles that could do a better sell job than this. This is reaching Koy Detmer running Dana Bible's playbook level territory.
For those you are who are perfectly fine with a world with "no civilians", just remember that also includes your children too. You'll stop laughing at the sketch when you finally realize the kind of world you are actually giving them.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Definitely OK. I mean, it was disgusting, in very poor taste and worst of all - unfunny. But definitely OK.
The General
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
VIDEO: Man must have a code Sep 27, 2015
#TheWire season 1, episode 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6_BG_3mMIw
VIDEO: Omar Little As A Shorty Jan 26, 2008
Omar Had Respect From Day 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLMyr-7g9ZE
******
( So, you're my eyeball witness? So, why'd you step up on this? ) "Bird trifling, basically. He killed an everyday working man and all. Don't get it twisted, I do some dirt too, but I ain't never put my gun on nobody who wasn't in the game. A man must have a code."
"We took $16 from that man on his way home from work?"
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Really it should be more of a doxing discussion than a "making fun of" discussion. Both Stones do this consentually and seem to enjoy it. The only issue is whether they want the public to know about it. They clearly do as here's an interview (by Jeffrey Toobin of all people) with Stone where he admits it is true.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/06/02/the-dirty-trickster
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/06/02/the-dirty-trickster
I don't know anything more than the links posted, but the Dailymail article posted above referenced the mid 90s.
If making jokes on "their lifestyle", is "fair game", does that apply to other "lifestyles"? Seems like an ugly path.
And I do wonder about your point on the person dying. Is making a joke on their "lifestyle" when the person is 45 and healthy different than making the same joke when the person is 75 and dying of cancer?
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I think so, yes. Making fun of their "lifestyle" is a little edgy, but it's fair game. Don't visit sex clubs with your wife (or without your wife for that matter) if you don't want this to be an issue.
That all changes when someone is terminally ill, and it seems like that should go without saying.
crackattack
Footballguy
In poor taste and unfunny, but I'm ok with it. I don't like censorship. Especially in the "arts". Comedy, music, movies, paintings etc etc. If it offends you, turn it off. Don't watch, listen attend things that offend you. But don't stifle creativity because it offends you.
I strongly dislike rap music, but I would never say it needs changed. I just don't listen to it.
I strongly dislike rap music, but I would never say it needs changed. I just don't listen to it.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
More generally, it's kind of sad that our comedy shows have to go back to side characters from the previous administration for material. If you can't mine the current cast of characters for laughs, you're in the wrong business.
What would be your guess for how the target audience for SNL breaks down between people who voted for or leaned toward Biden in 2020 compared to people who voted for or leaned toward Trump in 2020?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It's got to be 90-10 at least, right? Of course, that explains a lot of how they pick what jokes to make.
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The General
Footballguy
I watched the cold open and the news part most weeks. They cover a lot of topics, this was one of about 30. I didn’t get this joke without the explanation but there were some decent ones in there. It’s a tough gig.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Typically the previous administration fades from public view. Has there ever been a former president who tries as hard as this one to remain in the news? And for better or worse, many from his administration are still very much news worthy - including Roger Stone.
However, the current administration should provide plenty of comedic material. But I haven't watched SNL since the '80s.
dozer
Footballguy
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Fair enough. And look, Stone is a ridiculous person. I don't remember who said this, but the most accurate description of Roger Stone that I've seen is that he looks like the villain in a children's movie about a talking dog. So I get why he's the target of jokes.
I do wonder if the target audience ever stops to notice this sort of thing though.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Direct Headline: CNN boss Jeff Zucker urged staff not to 'normalize' Trump's behavior during election, leaked audiotapes show
"OK, I just want to re-emphasize that, you know, I think we cannot normalize what has happened here in the last week with Trump and his behavior," Zucker is heard saying. "And I go back to what [CNN political Director] David, David Chalian said, that this is a president who knows he's losing, who knows he's in trouble, is sick, maybe is on the after-effects of steroids or not. I don't know, but he is acting erratically and desperately, and we need to, we need to not normalize that. ...
By Joseph A. Wulfsohn 12/1/20
https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-jeff-zucker-project-veritas
Media Optics: Sleeper Effect
A sleeper effect in persuasion is a delayed increase in the impact of a persuasive message. In other words, a sleeper effect occurs when a communication shows no immediate persuasive effects, but, after some time, the recipient of the communication becomes more favorable toward the position advocated by the message.
https://psychology.iresearchnet.com/social-psychology/social-influence/sleeper-effect/
*****
What is the end goal?
The establishment Democrats don't really want to hunt down and batter Roger Stone and his wife. Nydia Stone is a "discounting cue" meaning the patterned attacks are going to be initially rejected by a mainstream audience because rolling down hard on someone terminally ill is not considered socially acceptable in our society. Then over time, with heavy repetitive messaging, the ideology begins to creep in and sink in as common place and everyday life ( i.e. the culmination of the sleeper effect as the impact of the discounting cue wanes) But the purpose is to "normalize" the behavior. Not just to attack known political players ( where taking a beating in public in the media is part of the job and part of the risk) but to bracket down on those closest to them outside of the game.
Do you think the Nazis just started slaughtering children first? They went after the fringes, the criminals ( culling the ranks of those likely to create armed/violent resistance) and the outcast first. They "normalized" their behavior in stages. After a while, as the "discounting cues" disappeared, then there was no effective power blocks remaining to resist.
Establishment Democrats know that the average American doesn't trust the news anymore. That the general public understands the media is completely cooked. So the "repetition" for the sleeper effect comes from late night television, sketch comedy, movies, TV, music, popular books and on and on and on.
They want to normalize a public acceptance of future patterned smear attacks against Nikki Haley's husband ( Michael Haley) and her two children ( Nalin and Rena Haley) and her parents ( Ajit Singh Randhawa and Raj Kaur Randhawa )
They want to grind down on Dan Crenshaw's family, Ron De Santis' family, Elise Stefanik's family, Tim Scott's family, Winsome Sears' family and on and on and on.
Everyone here who is a parent. Your children are on that list too. Just further down. Authoritarian regimes eventually purify everyone.
Pretty much this.
And SNL is still funny at times. My guess is that many of the SNL "haters" are older and probably don't know a lot of the joke references (for example, the TikTok sketch from this past weekend was great but I bet many here have absolutely no idea who The Island Boys are and many of the other references in that sketch).
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yeah, Stone is currently refusing a subpoena from Congress about his actions during the 1/6 attempted insurrection. He is a current figure and a convicted felon.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Direct Headline: Donald Trump is bad for comedy, but his election loss doesn’t mean he’ll be gone from late night
“The project of making fun of Trump, or doing material about Trump, has led to divided creative teams, anxiety, tears and pain...I believe that comedy is a powerful tool,” she wrote. “I believe that it can handle anything, no matter how unfunny. I don’t believe that making fun of this man, doing impressions of him, or making him silly, is a good use of that power. It only adds to his.”
Sarah Whitten Nov 10 20201:34 PM EST
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/10/donald-trump-has-fundamentally-changed-late-night-comedy.html
Direct Headline: Kimmel, Colbert, Fallon Ratings Plummet for Four Months Straight Among Key Youth Demographic
For last week, the three major late-night shows experienced a 19 percent drop from last year in their average weekly viewership in the 18-49 demographic. These declines tend to be between 10 percent and 20 percent every week as far back as mid July, though some weeks saw even bigger drops.
David Ng Dec 2021
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/12/07/kimmel-colbert-fallon-see-ratings-plummet-for-four-months-straight-among-key-youth-demographic/
*****
The largest evidence that late night comedy has become a repetitive propaganda wing for the establishment Democrats is no "for profit" network programming would intentionally alienate over half their audience otherwise.
When LeBron James starts shouting about Jacob Blake and the WNBA stops playing games by wear T shirts with his name on it and none of them seem to realize that Blake had an arrest warrant out for him for sexually assaulting a woman ( Here's a good time to point out that just a shade over 30 percent of NBA fans are actually women and the money losing WNBA was averaging about 1000 fans a game before the pandemic and struggled for over two decades to secure a stable female viewership ) A great way to secure new female viewers is to .... support a career criminal felon wanted for sexually assaulting a woman? That's just a small number of people who don't actually understand the media game who self inflict their own version of pure madness.
But the actual power players in late night comedy can't hide behind the excuse of ignorance in how their industry operates.
Pushing away over half your audience by condescending to them can only make any kind of sense if it's a coordinated widespread optics strategy ( a stupid one no doubt, but a clearly controlled designed manipulated one)
The General
Footballguy
Did we get a “nazi” reference?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I can't imagine how a George Carlin routine would go over today. Everyone would be offended.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
I err very far on the side of yes, it's fine to make lifestyle jokes. Hell, you could argue that just any joke made about others is a lifestyle joke. We make fun or religion and all kinds of stereotypes. Should we? Well, I think most people take life way too seriously and should learn to laugh at themselves.
And while it may seem like a double standard, I do think jokes at the expense of a dying person should be avoided but I won't hammer somebody who does it. I kind of see it as similar to the unwritten rule about not demonizing someone right after they pass away, even if they deserve it.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
The target audience for SNL has always skewed young but they definitely go after and make fun of "the right" a lot more and more viciously than "the left". I would think the 90-10 others have said is probably about right although I'd point out that I'd venture a guess that the target audience they are looking for are both Trump haters but also not fans of Biden. SNL is a fairly "woke" crowd and target audience.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
wasting care is the only possible sin here
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
Why do people get so offended at comedy? The attempt is to make a joke and make people laugh. Get a laugh, mission accomplished. No laugh, its a bad joke.
I wish people got more offended at the actions of some of these individuals rather than the words put together to try and get a laugh.
I wish people got more offended at the actions of some of these individuals rather than the words put together to try and get a laugh.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Not offensive but not funny either. Low hanging fruit
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
the "left" also makes fun of the Left approximately 400billion times more than the "right" makes fun of the RightAAABatteries said:
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Cool. Now I know that all I have to do is claim something is "comedy" as a built-in excuse to say all kinds off stuff. This should get around the FBG Moderator.