thehornet
Footballguy
nicks is better than plax and if you dont think he is now, then he will be soon.
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So can we all agree yet? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wiscstlatlmia
- Start date
I would totally be on this bandwagon if Detroit were better and his QB wasn't glass.
Dez Bryant or if the Rams draft a stud WR...those might be my picks here.
Nah I'd probably go with Andre if I had to. That guy's going to be 40 and still manhandling DBs even if he has lost a step by then.
Dez Bryant or if the Rams draft a stud WR...those might be my picks here.
Nah I'd probably go with Andre if I had to. That guy's going to be 40 and still manhandling DBs even if he has lost a step by then.
No way.Plax's attitude, demeanor and work ethic got him a bunch of flack but he was as unstoppable a WR as there was in the game when he was hot. <--keypoint when he was hot.Don't get me wrong, Plax is probably done and I'm not giving him a big window of these games where he was hot and dominant, but Nicks isn't near that level. Mario looks better than Nicks some games and so does Smith. I know we're talking about a talented WR corp, but if he isn't even the best on his team every single week then we just can't go down this road IMO.Plus, Barden is going to mess up Giant WR dynasty owners plans someday real soon. I don't know which WRs stats he'll put a dent into, but it's coming and probably in 2011. He was in on every red zone offense for a few weeks just before he got hurt and the WR injuries hadn't piled up at that point
Jury is still out on if Nicks > Burress, but with 2 years almost wrapped up, Nicks has a better stat line compared to Plax and Nicks entered the league 2 years younger than when Plax did. Not saying he's better, but he's off to a great start to make that claim.
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wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Having read McGinn for a long time, I can say that with a pretty good amount of certainty that he got that from a scout or gm. He most likely ran it by another scout or gm from a different organization too before printing it.
Having said that, I do think some of his sources have agendas. I wouldn't doubt some scout or gm didn't like Nicks coming out, and still hold some of those opinions on him. Some of his GM sources may very well have passed on Nicks for another player. How happy do you think Bill Polian (a frequent McGinn source) is right now having taken Donald Brown over Nicks?
Nonetheless, I think it should be a genuine concern to those that would rate Nicks above Calvin.
The_U
Footballguy
Here's a take on the posters claming Nicks is "fragile" and magically forgetting Calvin is somehow Superman. The posts I wanted to reply to had too many quotes in them and the system was (wisely) not allowing me to respond to those other posts without dropping a quote (previous) or two.
Calvin Johnson has missed a LOT of games his first few years due to injury as well. It's a tough position for big guys to assimilate to in terms of developing the ability to stay healthy over the course of a full season.
Nicks has been injured his fair share the first two years he's played in the league, but he is a tough guy and other than the two games last year as a rookie (fairly passable) and the pretty nasty injury this year which had many "expert doctors" on this site declaring him "out for the season - now way he come sback - 'oh I've had that injury' bla, blah, blah," Nicks came back and has soldiered on like he always does.
The guy is a beast - so is Calvin - and both guys should be atop your wishlist as dynasty WRs. Just don't ding Nicks for being an injury case and dismiss Calvin for not having a similar issue when he broke into the league himself.
Calvin sucked last year FYI. And it wasn't because he was on the field and was just not gettin' the love...
Calvin Johnson has missed a LOT of games his first few years due to injury as well. It's a tough position for big guys to assimilate to in terms of developing the ability to stay healthy over the course of a full season.
Nicks has been injured his fair share the first two years he's played in the league, but he is a tough guy and other than the two games last year as a rookie (fairly passable) and the pretty nasty injury this year which had many "expert doctors" on this site declaring him "out for the season - now way he come sback - 'oh I've had that injury' bla, blah, blah," Nicks came back and has soldiered on like he always does.
The guy is a beast - so is Calvin - and both guys should be atop your wishlist as dynasty WRs. Just don't ding Nicks for being an injury case and dismiss Calvin for not having a similar issue when he broke into the league himself.
Calvin sucked last year FYI. And it wasn't because he was on the field and was just not gettin' the love...
FunkyTeaParty
Footballguy
I'll take Roddy White and you guys can fight over everyone else.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
you people make me laughwiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
...you mean ALL three games hes missed in his 4 year career....like are you serious right now?
oukurt
Footballguy
No I was doing it off the top of my head. Knew I was forgetting someone. Andre in there at 3. Can't argue with your list. I think Dez is too low, but who knows.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Not sure what is funny about that. He's spot on.you people make me laugh
doowain
Footballguy
What do you mean "you people"?you people make me laugh
What do you mean "you people"?What do you mean "you people"?
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Because Roddy isn't an elite talent...The only reason he is putting up good numbers this year is because of the amount of targets. I dont care who you are, always go elite talent over elite situation in dynasty.Because situation can go down the tubes with one injury. No person can look me in the face and tell me roddy would still be a top 5 guy if matt ryan went down for the year. Plus even in the worst situation possible Calvin is still putting up the same type of numbers.Not sure what is funny about that. He's spot on.
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Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Hey Q-bert,I don't think having 2 Dallas Wr's in the to 10 is right. Both are good but if you added up the stats over the next 5 years and we had them right now, I doubt highly that both of them are in the top 10.I think Calvin is No. 1. That doesnt mean he'll be No. 1, but what we know right now, with Stafford coming back next year and the way Calvin plays this year, he's your No. 1 guy. I think I would put Nicks 2nd. Then after that, I wouldn't go crazy with putting young Wr's up there, Andre Johnson will still be great at least the next two years so that's enough to make him No. 3 in my book and Roddy White No. 4. I would drop Larry Fitzgerald close to the 8 or 9 spot. Who's to say that Arizona doesn't find a QB for years, who's to say Fitzgerald doesn't get traded to a great passing team, but what we know right now is he's not in a great situation. If he were to get traded, then I would change my rankings, but right now he can't be in my top 5. If Mike Vick stays in Philly, then Desean Jackson is my No. 5.Calvin JohnsonHakeem NicksAndre JohnsonRoddy WhiteDeSean JacksonI would find a way for Mike Williams TB to be at the bottom of my top 10. He's got a young QB who's learning the game and he's only going to get better too. Out of your list, I'd probably move Miles Austin out (not far out, he's still good and Romo will improve his numbers) and Mike Williams in there around 9 or 10.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I think this is true for redraft for next year but I would think Calvin's dynaty value should be higher than AJ's. In dynasty, I would trade AJ for Calvin in a heartbeat.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Talent can go down the tubes with one injury as well. The truth is we just don't know how Roddy would do without Ryan. You are speculating and not only speculating. You are speculating with absolutes. You don't ALWAYS do anything in fantasy football.Because Roddy isn't an elite talent...The only reason he is putting up good numbers this year is because of the amount of targets. I dont care who you are, always go elite talent over elite situation in dynasty.Because situation can go down the tubes with one injury. No person can look me in the face and tell me roddy would still be a top 5 guy if matt ryan went down for the year. Plus even in the worst situation possible Calvin is still putting up the same type of numbers.Not sure what is funny about that. He's spot on.you people make me laugh
nysportsfan
Footballguy
You're missing the boat on him...BIG time.Because Roddy isn't an elite talent...The only reason he is putting up good numbers this year is because of the amount of targets. I dont care who you are, always go elite talent over elite situation in dynasty.Because situation can go down the tubes with one injury. No person can look me in the face and tell me roddy would still be a top 5 guy if matt ryan went down for the year. Plus even in the worst situation possible Calvin is still putting up the same type of numbers.Not sure what is funny about that. He's spot on.
doowain
Footballguy
Why would you ever play scared like that? Worrying so much about potential injury (not even to White, but to Ryan) and discounting a guy based on his targets? "That guy gets soooo many yards and catches, because he gets too many targets!!" Really?It's not like Roddy is just some WR who came out of nowhere this year.2007 - 83 1202 62008 - 88 1382 72009 - 85 1153 11 His target numbers have also been high the last two years (148 and 164). That's not going to change any time soon. He was also a 1st round pick, so it's not like he comes without a level of pedigree.Whether you believe it or not, he is simply ELITE. His hands are among the best in the league. He CANNOT be jammed at the line. You will find very few WRs in the league that can beat the jam and get open so easily. That goes back to his wrestling background (I believe he was a state champ in high school?). He doesn't rely on speed to get open, so as he pushes over the 30 mark, you shouldn't see a downtick in production.You are overlooking the thing he has going most for him....which separates him from the pack IMO (and puts him on par with AJ). He has an unbelievable rapport with his QB. If you watch ATL games, the feel that Ryan and White have for each other is incredible. The back shoulder throws, knowing where Roddy will be in a situation, how he looks for him nearly every 3rd down.....it's just uncanny. And the part that is scary....is that Matt Ryan isn't even as good as he's gonna be. He has made a huge leap from last year to this year (which is impressive considering how good he's been his 1st two years). And that huge leap has shown in Roddy's stats. That's why I don't think this year is a "fluke". I see no reason why Roddy can't be a 100/1300/9 guy for the next 5 years. Add in the fact that he doesn't get injured (knock on wood) and that's the consistent, RELIABLE, elite production that I want out of the WR1.Because Roddy isn't an elite talent...The only reason he is putting up good numbers this year is because of the amount of targets. I dont care who you are, always go elite talent over elite situation in dynasty.Because situation can go down the tubes with one injury. No person can look me in the face and tell me roddy would still be a top 5 guy if matt ryan went down for the year. Plus even in the worst situation possible Calvin is still putting up the same type of numbers.Not sure what is funny about that. He's spot on.you people make me laugh
Frank Costanza's Lawyer
Footballguy
Like in 2007 when White had Joey Harrington, Chris Redman, and Byron Leftwich throwing to him? When White still put up 83-1202-6?Because Roddy isn't an elite talent...The only reason he is putting up good numbers this year is because of the amount of targets. I dont care who you are, always go elite talent over elite situation in dynasty.Because situation can go down the tubes with one injury. No person can look me in the face and tell me roddy would still be a top 5 guy if matt ryan went down for the year. Plus even in the worst situation possible Calvin is still putting up the same type of numbers.Not sure what is funny about that. He's spot on.you people make me laugh
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simey
Footballguy
Ryan missed 2 1/2 games last year, and Roddy did well in two out of those three games with Chris Redman throwing to him, and Roddy was playing on a bad knee. He had 5/57/1, 9/104/1, and 2/41/0.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Is that top 5 numbers? Im not saying Roddy isn't good or anything...im just saying hes not number 1 over Calvin. Calvin is just such a dominant red zone target that if he remains healthy he will get over 10+ tds every year. Roddy is not that type of guy.Roddy usually catches about half his targets. I think as Ryan matures and becomes a better QB he will spread the ball around more and Roddys Targets (and numbers) will go down.Like in 2007 when White had Joey Harrington, Chris Redman, and Byron Leftwich throwing to him? When White still put up 83-1202-6?Because Roddy isn't an elite talent...The only reason he is putting up good numbers this year is because of the amount of targets. I dont care who you are, always go elite talent over elite situation in dynasty.Because situation can go down the tubes with one injury. No person can look me in the face and tell me roddy would still be a top 5 guy if matt ryan went down for the year. Plus even in the worst situation possible Calvin is still putting up the same type of numbers.Not sure what is funny about that. He's spot on.you people make me laugh
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wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Look i understand...Roddy white is underrated and hes the next Reggie Wayne, I get it.... But someone please tell me how you could pick him over Calvin? give me and actual reason why hes more worthy
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ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
MrSoup
Footballguy
I've been a Roddy White owner for 3 years in a keeper league. That's how I could pick him over Calvin.It amazes me that Roddy White is STILL underrated after what he is doing RIGHT NOW.
Roddy is going to finish this year in the TOP TEN in PPR for the 4TH SEASON IN A ROW. Never missed a game in his career! Neither of which Calvin can say.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
how many 10+td seasons has he had? this year is his ceiling...btw since week 9 hes had 1 100 yard game...and has the most targets in the NFL in that stretch....really impressive. Plus Calvin is 4 years younger
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MrSoup
Footballguy
Roddy has had one 10+ TD season, with a great chance to make it 2. If you want to play that angle, how many 80+ reception seasons has Calvin had? ZERO. Roddy? 4. In PPR, that's a HUGE DEAL.
And who are you to decide that this year is his ceiling? Matt Ryan and the Atlanta Falcons only getting better.
doowain
Footballguy
106/1284/8 through 14 games is his ceiling?!??! Talk about overrated. We are all silly considering him at #1.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
yes because Calvin is right behind him...on 36 less targets. Again, I'm not saying Roddy white isn't a top 5 wr. I'm saying hes behind Calvin
doowain
Footballguy
Well, when you get right down to the Top 5....a lot of times it comes down to personal preference. FWIW, I own Calvin in the same amount of leagues I own Roddy. I really don't think I'd trade either for the other one straight up.
ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
Yeah, and you aren't saying why, except that he gets less targets and scores less points than Roddy White. Perhaps you don't think it's a good idea to have a guy that scores more than another one and if that's your strategy good luck with it. Most other people want players that score the most points.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
OK...Who (of those two) has better stats(Yards,touchdowns and receptions) through there first 4 years in the league?
ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
OK...Who (of those two) has a first name that starts with the letter R?Do you want to get back to who score more points? Or would you rather just make up silliness along the way? Again, if you want to go with a player that scores less points, good luck to you. It might work out well. Most people would rather have a player that scores more points. It's just a preference.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
But my point was... Calvin has scored more points ....by A lot. If your just talking about this year then I guess your correct but I'm talking about dynasty. I am also pretty sure he outscored Roddy two years ago...and this season isn't over yet either.OK...Who (of those two) has a first name that starts with the letter R?Do you want to get back to who score more points? Or would you rather just make up silliness along the way? Again, if you want to go with a player that scores less points, good luck to you. It might work out well. Most people would rather have a player that scores more points. It's just a preference.
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ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
Your point was transparent and pretty bad. I guess the best thing you have going for you is that the season isn't over yet. OKBut my point was... Calvin has scored more points ....by A lot. If you just talking about this year then i guess your correct but I'm talking about dynasty. I am also pretty sure he outscored Roddy two years ago...and this season isn't over yet either.OK...Who (of those two) has a first name that starts with the letter R?Do you want to get back to who score more points? Or would you rather just make up silliness along the way? Again, if you want to go with a player that scores less points, good luck to you. It might work out well. Most people would rather have a player that scores more points. It's just a preference.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Your point was transparent and pretty bad. I guess the best thing you have going for you is that the season isn't over yet. OKBut my point was... Calvin has scored more points ....by A lot. If you just talking about this year then i guess your correct but I'm talking about dynasty. I am also pretty sure he outscored Roddy two years ago...and this season isn't over yet either.OK...Who (of those two) has a first name that starts with the letter R?Do you want to get back to who score more points? Or would you rather just make up silliness along the way? Again, if you want to go with a player that scores less points, good luck to you. It might work out well. Most people would rather have a player that scores more points. It's just a preference.
Have fun with Roddy my man.
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ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
Are you mad?Your point was transparent and pretty bad. I guess the best thing you have going for you is that the season isn't over yet. OKBut my point was... Calvin has scored more points ....by A lot. If you just talking about this year then i guess your correct but I'm talking about dynasty. I am also pretty sure he outscored Roddy two years ago...and this season isn't over yet either.OK...Who (of those two) has a first name that starts with the letter R?Do you want to get back to who score more points? Or would you rather just make up silliness along the way? Again, if you want to go with a player that scores less points, good luck to you. It might work out well. Most people would rather have a player that scores more points. It's just a preference.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
No, I think your not adding much to this conversation
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ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
OK.Roddy White scores more points than Calvin Johnson. This is why I like Roddy White more than Calvin Johnson. What have you added?
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
But....He doesn't. Yea, in the last two years... but if you compare the first 4 years of there careers its not close. so no, he doesn't score more.I dont see how you can say its a transparent argument...Its a pretty clear fact
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ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
It's transparent that you picked out an automatic winning argument based on the fact that White had poor early seasons in his career. Perhaps you could explain to me why this is so important to you, and why this means he isn't as good as Calvin Johnson? I frankly don't care if Roddy White was a crackhead a few years ago. But what I do care about is that he scores more points than Calvin Johnson this year. Why you ignore this, I do not know. (actually I do, but nevermind that)
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Calvin is #2 in FBG scoring. White is #4.
ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
Yeah, thats fine. All of my leagues are PPR and have White at 1, Johnson at 2.
Great thread btw.
I find it interesting that some of the Roddy backers and many on these boards like to point out the "winning this year" arguement as if future years have no value. They both have value...Yes Roddy is outscoring CJ this year, but is it by enough to make such a difference in "winning this year", that you just throw out the 4 yr age advantage CJ has?
Not in my book.
1. CJ
2. Nicks
3. Roddy
4. AJ
5. Bryant
6. Fitz
7. Marshall
8. Jennings
I find it interesting that some of the Roddy backers and many on these boards like to point out the "winning this year" arguement as if future years have no value. They both have value...Yes Roddy is outscoring CJ this year, but is it by enough to make such a difference in "winning this year", that you just throw out the 4 yr age advantage CJ has?
Not in my book.
1. CJ
2. Nicks
3. Roddy
4. AJ
5. Bryant
6. Fitz
7. Marshall
8. Jennings
thehornet
Footballguy
ouch. posts like these show how very little football some people watch.Because Roddy isn't an elite talent...The only reason he is putting up good numbers this year is because of the amount of targets. I dont care who you are, always go elite talent over elite situation in dynasty.Because situation can go down the tubes with one injury. No person can look me in the face and tell me roddy would still be a top 5 guy if matt ryan went down for the year. Plus even in the worst situation possible Calvin is still putting up the same type of numbers.Not sure what is funny about that. He's spot on.
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ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
I'd say Roddy White's stable team/QB is a considerably greater advantage than CJ's age "advantage". This is especially true when one realizes that White is 29, not 37, and he can perform at the top of his physical ability for several years afterward. Perhaps you can show me the current trend of WRs of White's ability falling of a statistical cliff, and then you could change my mind.On the other hand I'd like for CJ supporters to explain to me how having being a part of the offense that is constantly in flux, on a losing organization and having chronic injury issues means little to nothing when evaluating Johnson.I've heard it every year that Johnson was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and he finally is playing well. He still isn't the #1 WR though.
I think there is a great amount of prior expectations built into his value. That's a pretty bad idea.
thehornet
Footballguy
and how are they ranked over the last 3-4 years?
