Joe Summer
Footballguy
In before Ted Nugent.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
So I Guess We Are Back To Assassination Fantasies In The Artistic Community (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockaction
- Start date
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Dedfin
Footballguy
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Toe Cutter
Footballguy
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
McGarnicle
Footballguy
shadrap
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I'm really confused how @rockaction is interpreting the same play in two different ways? I support both projects. This is why we don't have a king. This is freedom of speech. They are bringing classic art into our world. This is important and rebellious stuff. @rockaction thought you were punk rock and anti authority?
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
Link to the play where that redneck somewhere out there that had Barak in a noose and it's corporate sponsors
Oh yeah that's right it's bull#### and never happened.
Never in a play picturing his murder much less sponsored by corporate America. Bush? Never saw it. Clinton! No.
But of course you get the nonchalant this is nothing reaction from the party of tolerance. ####### liberals.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
McGarnicle
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Yeah, if you watch/read to the end, it's not a good thing that Caesar gets killed. Not sure how anyone could argue it's glorifying assassination in any way.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Definitely breaks from the original and adds a new spin but it doesn't seem more offensive than the Obama version.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Keep in mind that's just casting and wardrobe. There's apparently only one textual addition to the text. A three word joke about Trumps statement about how he could kill a guy on 5th Avenue. Brutus, by the way, is played by Corey Stoll, who is a white man.
Obviiusly, I'm not defending the production. I haven't seen the production. Modern updates of Shakespeare can go very right i or very, very wrong.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Oh so you mean actresses and ninority actors are playing the Senators? That's not really a significant change to the interpretation of the story.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yes. And if I understand correctly some of the "mob" for the funeral scene wear ##### hats.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Wow. This is really tough to parse. It would take a while.
I support absolute freedom of speech, even don't like the corporate sponsors pulling out of this. @Ilov80sI'll have to get back to you on this. I'll shout you out when I do.
rockaction
Footballguy
Actually, it's not that controversial a statement to point out that the artistic community on the left seems to have assassination fantasies when the right is in power. I never said they shouldn't be allowed to, I simply made the comment that it made an unsympathetic man sympathetic if you read the OP and the first page. Suppressing speech is what the true threat doctrine is for, and I've argued about that many times on this board, to much dead air until it dealt with Trump.
As far as punk rock, @Ilov80s, that's neither here nor there, really. Totalitarians can be very punk rock. Nihilism was the operating modus operandi for punk rock when it first started, really, which would praise a superman or ubermensch. You can ask @otb_liferabout this. Punk wasn't always so fuzzy and down with free speech. Punk was often a heckler's veto.
I'll give a shout-out about what I'm for later, when I've had some time to contextualize the thread.
As far as punk rock, @Ilov80s, that's neither here nor there, really. Totalitarians can be very punk rock. Nihilism was the operating modus operandi for punk rock when it first started, really, which would praise a superman or ubermensch. You can ask @otb_liferabout this. Punk wasn't always so fuzzy and down with free speech. Punk was often a heckler's veto.
I'll give a shout-out about what I'm for later, when I've had some time to contextualize the thread.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
@rockaction I'd love to hear more of expansive thoughts on punk being a potentially totalitarian movement. Also, your claim about liberals is very controversial. Finally, of course the play makes "Trump" seem sympathetic. That's a huge reason why Julius Caesar is so impactful.
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
Actually, it's not mainstream liberals, it's the artistic community, which seems to be even more divorced from mainstream liberalism than we think.
And I would love to provide evidence for punk rock either publicly or in a PM. It's more like a long paper, though, so it will require some time. Please be assured that's not just a one-off statement. Punk can be many things, totalitarian one of them. The Nazi imagery alone that pervaded punk wasn't decried until Jello Biafra did it in the '80s. The Ramones and the Dead Boys both used Nazi imagery and lyrics.
And The Dead Boys are perfect examples of troglodyte punk if you read the lyrics. Punks were nihilists before they were leftist-utopianists.
And I would love to provide evidence for punk rock either publicly or in a PM. It's more like a long paper, though, so it will require some time. Please be assured that's not just a one-off statement. Punk can be many things, totalitarian one of them. The Nazi imagery alone that pervaded punk wasn't decried until Jello Biafra did it in the '80s. The Ramones and the Dead Boys both used Nazi imagery and lyrics.
And The Dead Boys are perfect examples of troglodyte punk if you read the lyrics. Punks were nihilists before they were leftist-utopianists.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think it's depressing how predictable this debate is. Yes, this is ok as artistic license. No, it's not ok as wishcasting. Yes, it's part of free speech so it must be protected. No, government shouldn't be funding anything with a particular political POV. Yes, government should be funding the arts. See Giuliani 1999.
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
I disagree about public funding of the arts but the rest of this is right on.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Agree, but what's the political POV here? The drama of JC is a million shades of gray. Neither Brutus nor Caesar are heroes or villains really. There are many complex ways to analyze the drama so I don't see it as a definitive anti- Trump message as much as a deep complicated examination of power, loyalty, duty, fate, etc.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Admittedly I haven't seen the play as interpreted here but it sounds pretty anti-Trump, which I'd likely share but I think the principle here is state funded speech shouldn't be taking a slant re: any current political landscape.
Last edited by a moderator:
MODS - Can we please merge this thread with the 2012 thread - where these same people complained about the Obama inspired Julius Caesar production.
TIA
BroadwayWorld has learned that in their 2012 season, during which Delta Airlines was a Business Circle sponsor - The Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis presented an Obama inspired Julius Caesar co-produced with The Acting Company.
Though information on the level of financing Delta contributed for the year 2012 was unavailable, this year they donated between $100,000 and $249,000 to the Gurtrie Theater.
MSP Mag described the production in a review: "And, because Caesar is cast as a tall, lanky black man, the Obama inference is a bit too obvious. But it fits, sort of. Like Caesar, Obama rose to power on a tide of public goodwill; like Caesar, there were many in government who doubted Obama's leadership abilities; and now that Obama's first term has failed to live up to the messianic hype, there are plenty of people who-for the good of the country, you understand, not their own glory-want to take Obama down."
Twin Cities Daily Planet also made the Obama connection, writing "In this Caesar, Julius and his inner circle are dressed in crisp business suits, Bjorn DuPaty cutting an unmistakably Obama-like figure as the eponymous ruler."
This production would have also featured assassination of a figure resembling the current President of the United States.
TIA
BroadwayWorld has learned that in their 2012 season, during which Delta Airlines was a Business Circle sponsor - The Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis presented an Obama inspired Julius Caesar co-produced with The Acting Company.
Though information on the level of financing Delta contributed for the year 2012 was unavailable, this year they donated between $100,000 and $249,000 to the Gurtrie Theater.
MSP Mag described the production in a review: "And, because Caesar is cast as a tall, lanky black man, the Obama inference is a bit too obvious. But it fits, sort of. Like Caesar, Obama rose to power on a tide of public goodwill; like Caesar, there were many in government who doubted Obama's leadership abilities; and now that Obama's first term has failed to live up to the messianic hype, there are plenty of people who-for the good of the country, you understand, not their own glory-want to take Obama down."
Twin Cities Daily Planet also made the Obama connection, writing "In this Caesar, Julius and his inner circle are dressed in crisp business suits, Bjorn DuPaty cutting an unmistakably Obama-like figure as the eponymous ruler."
This production would have also featured assassination of a figure resembling the current President of the United States.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
If anything, it seems unfair to Caesar. Trump could not even win a handshake in Gaul.
Last edited by a moderator:
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
Certainly not as bad as a rodeo clown wearing a mask of the president. But they made sure he lost his job so they addressed it rather quickly 
.
.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Agree. Now can we discuss healthcare? Where is that much more important discussion?
Riversco
Footballguy
I think dems are split on how to handle issues these days. Some of them are deeply worried that if they dont reach across the aisle soon, the great lakes will turn red forever. Others just dont care and want to act like #######s.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I think there's enough decent people on the Left that - while very active - see this kind of stuff as not being helpful. Griffin already handed Trumpers the signature photo to encapsulate the Left's hate for him. IMO - and I hope I'm wrong - is that we've not seen the last of that photo.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
It's not helpful because Republican sheep fall for the spin just like you and rockaction and the usual suspects did. When it's pointed out that this exact same play was cast with Obama years ago, instead of retreating and admitting you erred, you double down and blame those who had the facts as being the reason Trump will be re-elected.
Do you realize how insane that is?
Riversco
Footballguy
The democrat problem is that republicans get their news more from alt right sources, so this activity will get highlighted and remembered more. Meanwhile, the good things dems do wont get mentioned. Its just going to cascade.
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I think it's a little distasteful that this play was done with Obama as Julius Caesar. I'm extremely familiar with the play, and I know that in context it is not a pro-assassination message, but I think that as a general principle, it is probably best for our national discourse not to enact the assassination of a current president. I wasn't aware of the Guthrie production of this play. Now that my kids are older, my wife and I have been able to attend a few of their plays, including this year's King Lear, and I am a big fan of their work. But I would not have been 100% comfortable with the Obama play, even though I get what they're doing.
Having said all that, you should realize that doing this play with Obama and doing it with Trump are different, and that's because of the cast and audience. I will wager that about 95% of the cast members in both productions are loosely pro-Obama and strongly anti-Trump. The audience breakdown is probably about 80% pro-Obama and anti-Trump. It is extremely easy for the performers and folks in the audience to see an "Obama as Julius Caesar" production as a horrific story about what happens when a fundamentally misguided person takes power into his own hands and murders a good leader with loyal subjects. Whereas I doubt the audience would automatically react the same way to a "Trump as Julius Caesar" production. It is hypothetically possible that this particular production was designed to create cognitive dissonance in the minds of its heavily-liberal audience, but even then that's troubling because I don't think the assassination of an actual, sitting president should be played that way.
In other words, there's an element of the in-group/out-group thing going on here. It is one thing for a liberal cast and liberal audience to imagine the assassination of Obama. It is different when that same cast and same audience imagines the assassination of an alt-right Trump. Is this a big issue either way? No, not really. But let's not insult each other's intelligence by pretending that they are symmetrical.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
In other words, it doesn't bother you (or me, really) when the Guthrie Theater staged a production of Julius Caesar with Obama as Caesar. But I'll bet it would have set off your Spidey sense if the Heritage Foundation had staged that exact same play. And no, that is not false equivalence. I would be willing to take a bet that there are about as many Obama voters at Heritage as there are Trump voters at the Guthrie.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Obama as Othello? That'd be a stretch. But, he's the only character of color I can remember from any of Shakespeare's plays. Wait, was Shakespeare racist?
![[icon]](/data/avatars/s/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}